SteeleJoe

This is INSANE ..... NO MERCY for those Thai jerks ... how can you kill for such infantile thing ... I guess they have nothing in the brain to react like this.

And there lies the question that folk must keep in mind. Forget the land of smiles, remember a different culture that takes a long time to take on board.

Welcome to the land of smiles... Thais think they can do anything to a foreigner and get away with it .. and in most cases they do.. while most of them make a living out of the tourist trade which is the biggest contributor to the economy...

Another one who thinks foreigners are more important than they actually are: most Thais don't ever consider foreigners and those rare ones who assault a foreigner don't do it because they think they can get away with it, they do it because they have issues and/ or the circumstances they and the foreigner(s) are in.

On what do you base your assertion on the economic contribution of tourists? The fact that you are casually certain most Thais earn a living from tourism says a lot.

Good to see that they have actually asked for outside assistance when needed. Expensive tho for a guy (Thaksin)) who is not even a politician but just a criminal on the run.

Divert people attention to gain some credit.

Else, political game is going on.

Great move. Let's see if this strategy works out for him to return back as this will create some sympathy in public heart.

Ah, more of the conspiracy theories! This is why TV is one of the most entertaining sites on the Net.

So let me get this straight... Darth Thaksin paid some Pakistanis to do a threat video so he could win the stubborn hearts of the Thai people and find his way back home. Is that a tear in my eye?

Would make for a great novel. Please tell me when the movie comes out... p.s. you may want to 'up' the medication

If we think logically, it is clear that, AL-Q or Muslims or Jihad have problem with 4 countries and 3 religions; viz

1] USA 2] UK 3] Israel and 4] India

1] Christians 2] Jews and 3] Hindus

Now, where does Thaksin fit in this picture?

Your question is a good one except it's based on a fallacy. If you think al Q or any other Islamists have problems with only those countries, you are very uninformed on the topic. And you are mistaken in thinking they have a specific animus towards those religions, per se; they view Buddhists as they would any other infidels. (In fact, Christianity and Judaism - as Abrahamic religions - are closer to Islam than Buddhism and with some Islamists would be regarded with arguably slightly more favor.)

I have no position on the veracity of the claim in the OP, but it's a ridiculous oversimplification to claim al Qaeda et al only have issues with people if they are from 3 countries and/ 3 religions or even to posit that they have an issue with people BECAUSE they come from those countries or are believers in those faiths.

Apostasy and infidels and opposition to the Caliphate. That's ultimately what it's about. Those who they perceive to be in opposition to Jihad come in many guises...

Crazy stuff.

... again.

Wonder what tomorrow's Thai news will be:

I've no doubt it will include deadly violence with extreme weapons by Thais against a Westerner or Westerners for something that in almost any other country would be laughed about.

Think you might be exaggerating just a wee bit?

Your post seems like a rather stark example of a lot of the sentiment behind many posts: the notion that this is violence directed towards foreigners and the outrage that idea inspires.

Far more violent crime is committed by Thais against Thais. People are often not only unaware of that but wouldn't care anyway...

rbrooks wrote:

SteeleJoe wrote:

transam wrote:

ExpatJ wrote:

Tragic outcome - when people behave like annoying , aggressive jerks ( ie by not getting off a stage), you have to figure that eventually they will get pay back ( but nonetheless, death is too much!)

With a knife ? Come on.

ANYONE can be removed from a stage without resorting to possible death.

Perhaps you didn't read carefully: according to the story, the Americans were not injured in the act of removing them from the stage. The fact that they allegedly refused to leave the stage apparently led in part to an eventual fight in which the injury and killing took place.

I guess that justifies killing an American tourist and beating his son in front of him. I read it just fine and it still disgusts me that a Faralang having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage, deserved to be killed outside the bar by Thai musician standards. Is this the Thainess that the PM is promoting? Bet you also punishment or jail time is not given to the killers and they will still be singing in the band in Krabi waiting for the next Farang to piss them off.

"I guess that justifies killing an American tourist and beating his son in front of him. I read it just fine and it still disgusts me that a Faralang having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage, deserved to be killed outside the bar by Thai musician standards. Is this the Thainess that the PM is promoting? Bet you also punishment or jail time is not given to the killers and they will still be singing in the band in Krabi waiting for the next Farang to piss them off. "

And all I have to say is that that is a really stupid and ugly straw man: who suggested anything so absurd and obscene as the killing was justified (let alone that it was justified for reasons in my post)? You should be embarrassed.

And by the way, no one has claimed - not even the killers - the Americans deserved to be killed for "having a good time singing and maybe getting out of hand by not leaving the stage".

Calm down. You might be able to make a more worthwhile contribution.

In an entertainment context, there should be no excuse for killing any person - nor for raping them for that matter.

There are a lot of commenters who are blaming the Thais for ganging up, killing one person and severely injuring his son for the most feeble reasons. Even if you get into a punch up you should not expect to be killed.

Of course this happens in every country, not just here in Thailand, but in most civilised countries there is an effective police force that actually engages some effort in tackling crime, an effective justice system that actually process cases in a fair manner and with a view to justice being served - especially in criminal cases. Also in those countries you have a population who are allowed to be far more vocal about injustices than here and who have a higher group sense of morality.

Unfortunately so many Thai people are so anesthetised to crime and the uselessness of the police force, the rampant corruption and criminals running away or getting off scott free at some point on the journey through the abominably weak justice system, that crime - and violent crime is becoming rapidly worse and more senseless and society more and more ambivalent towards the issue. That is the problem here.

Whatever; the fact that something wrong happens somewhere else is absolutely no excuse for putting up with it here. Many of us have children here and want them to grow up in a society that is getting safer and better - not more violent and corrupt as appears is the current trend.

An excellent post and I largely agree with it - with the possible exception of the claim that the prevalence of violent crime rapidly growing...that may be so, but I'm not at all sure it is. Thailand has ALWAYS been a violent place. I knew that (partly from firsthand experience and a LOT of anecdotal evidence) even when I chose to settle here and loved the place (as opposed to just mostly liking it, as I do now).

There's a dead man, for sure, but the word 'murder' isn't appropriate unless malice aforethought can be proved. Those who took this life can be so charged but the word 'murder' is used way wrong way too often.

Murder. Illegal killing.

I agree the word is often used too loosely but it needn't be as rigidly defined as you claim. (Have you never heard of second degree murder, for example?)

I find it ridiculous how so many posters in this forum routinely take something like this and turn it into a 'Thai vs. farang' thing. This is a case of drunk people (note: people, not Thai or farang) getting involved in a stupid bar fight that escelated to a point where someone was tragically killed. I worked in the bar business for 10 years and have seen similar incidents happen many times; 99% of the time they have nothing to do with race and everything to do with boozy aggression. They usually don't end up with someone getting killed but they very well can - and do - anywhere in the world. Incredible: a bar fight breaks out and someone gets killed - let's blame it all on Thai society!

NO, lets blame it on a knife that should never have never have been brought into the arena.

You keep focussing on the weapon - it shouldn't have been there, but it was harmless until someone used it.

So you and I walk around with a blade in our pocket just in case someone sings the wrong song eh. Now come on.

No, you come one. Why make up something and clam I said it? Don't respond to my posts if you can't be bothered - I don't blame you. But if you do, how about responding to what I actually said?

I find it ridiculous how so many posters in this forum routinely take something like this and turn it into a 'Thai vs. farang' thing. This is a case of drunk people (note: people, not Thai or farang) getting involved in a stupid bar fight that escelated to a point where someone was tragically killed. I worked in the bar business for 10 years and have seen similar incidents happen many times; 99% of the time they have nothing to do with race and everything to do with boozy aggression. They usually don't end up with someone getting killed but they very well can - and do - anywhere in the world. Incredible: a bar fight breaks out and someone gets killed - let's blame it all on Thai society!

NO, lets blame it on a knife that should never have never have been brought into the arena.

You keep focussing on the weapon - it shouldn't have been there, but it was harmless until someone used it.

Those happy carefree smiling Thais eh?? land of murders smiles

Gee the drama queens are out in force.

Some drunks got in an alcohol fueled argument and therefore all Thais are sinister and this is the land of murders.

These two Americans could have as easily been beaten up and killed in the US, and given their reported behavior it's unlikely this was the first time for them to act like jerks in a bar.

The saintly, sober farangs, eh??

PEORIA, AZ - A Peoria man has been arrested on a murder charge after his friend died from injuries suffered in a "fake" bar fight.

MOREHEAD CITY, N.C. -

A man arrested in connection with a July 4th death outside a Morehead City bar made his first court appearance Tuesday morning.

Two men are being sought in connection with the beating death of an employee at Pats II Cocktails in South Redondo Beach.

STILLWATER, Minn. (WCCO) – The Washington County Attorney’s Office has charged a Cottage Grove man over the death of a Bayport man whom he assaulted in a bar fight.Police say 22-year-old Eric Richard punched the victim, 28-year-old Adam McCloud, in the head at least twice at Smalley’s Caribbean Barbecue & Pirate Bar in Stillwater.

I share your disdain for the way people are blatantly using this to fuel the predictable bashing session but as you so often do, you have overstepped the mark - in my opinion - in your unceasing efforts to defend Thais and Thailand:

"...given their reported behavior it's unlikely this was the first time for them to act like jerks in a bar."

Do you really think that is appropriate? (I have little doubt had someone made the same sort of assumption about Thais, you'd not tolerate it.)

Tragic outcome - when people behave like annoying , aggressive jerks ( ie by not getting off a stage), you have to figure that eventually they will get pay back ( but nonetheless, death is too much!)

With a knife ? Come on.

ANYONE can be removed from a stage without resorting to possible death.

Perhaps you didn't read carefully: according to the story, the Americans were not injured in the act of removing them from the stage. The fact that they allegedly refused to leave the stage apparently led in part to an eventual fight in which the injury and killing took place.

On or off stage, killing for nothing is crazy. Am sure the locals could have sent the farangs on their way, UNLESS the farangs were wannabe Rambo's.

Totally agree.

I would guess that alcohol played a big part in this unnecessary death. RIP the father and I hope the son recovers quickly.

+1

Unnecessary weapons caused an unnecessary death.

No, people with unnecessary weapons caused the death - and chances are good that they wouldn't have made such a regrettable choice without the influence of alcohol. (Assuming that it wasn't simply a matter of self defense).

Tragic outcome - when people behave like annoying , aggressive jerks ( ie by not getting off a stage), you have to figure that eventually they will get pay back ( but nonetheless, death is too much!)

With a knife ? Come on.

ANYONE can be removed from a stage without resorting to possible death.

Perhaps you didn't read carefully: according to the story, the Americans were not injured in the act of removing them from the stage. The fact that they allegedly refused to leave the stage apparently led in part to an eventual fight in which the injury and killing took place.

Let's make it easier. Is there anyone they can rule out?

I think we can rule out Al-Qaeda.

They generally take credit for what they do.

How ever I would not put it past them. They are basically a world wide organization. Just because you don't hear from them in an area dosen't mean they aren't there and haven't been there for a long time.

Just ask the states if they were aware of their plans and actions on 9/11.

* In fact, al Qaeda has on many occasions NOT taken credit for actions attributable to them.

* They aren't a singular and cohesive organization in the sense that many people imagine. Often times they are essentially a corporate brand that merely endorses an action - sometimes after the fact - or at most facilitates it to one degree or another. And there are so many offshoots and affiliates that use of the descriptor "al Qaeda" may be a practical necessity but it's not very precise.

* The US was largely aware of plans (obviously not specifics) prior to 9/11 - and that's the great shame and tragedy of it. (I am NOT suggesting deliberate complicity, just lamentable failures and arguably unavoidable oversights).

Maybe, but can we rule out the role the CIA played in this video?

I rule out very little. Would they do something like that (or far, far worse)? Certainly. Did they?

Don't ask me.

ah since CIA runs Al Quaeda they WOULD be able to tell Thai officials if it is them, but then they would have to acknowledge they fund AQ in Syria and Africa...oh wait, they have.... oh well good luck

Since many on here get their 'news' from the Daily Mail/Express/Fox here's one of many links re CIA funded 'al quaeda' http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0228

What a source!

A simple study of the history of the man and his organization (without any need to read shoddy newspapers or rely on shoddy websites) will tell you a couple things. Among them:

1) the Mujahideen and al Qaeda are completely separate entities. It is likely that some of the loads and loads of money poured into Afghanistan went to people working with bin Laden when he was fighting that war most of it went to others (some of whom were very odious indeed). al Qaeda didn't even exist at that time.

2) There have been many investigations by non governmental agencies and individuals and not a single bit of credible evidence has ever emerged that ObL received any training from the CIA nor is there anything to reasonably suggest that he had.

Or should we agree to let the USA bash Islam again?

When was the last time?

By the way, al Qaeda = Islam? Since when? ( I know millions of Muslims would take great offense at that inane idea - including some that I know.)

Answer to question in Topic Title:

Apparently I could, because I did.

I was 19 and knew no one here...

.

Maybe a new topic some day. I hope so.

How does a 19 year old immigrate to and remain in Thailand?

by making a shit load of money via the internet.

Not only was I not one of the seemingly vast number of young Internet millionaires (if we go by all the ones that appear on TVF), but I came before the internet existed - people didn't even have PCs...

Next time for 200 pounds get a tracking number.

Otherwise you have no way to trace it.

The only thing you can do is go to the dispatching office in your area.

You will realize what an archaic mess it is !

The manager was quite nice to me: He took my tel number and called me when he received some further mail but I never got many of unregistered parcels (fortunately of low value)

He's right, they nick parcels without tracking numbers.

(Usually your local delivery man)

You were lucky this time.

They "nick" them? Are Americans using that word these days?

The postal service used to be far worse, it seems to me (going by my experience over the last 30 years and anecdotal evidence): I haven't had anything go missing for ages and some things people (foolishly) send me would be easily pilfered and of some value (even cash - my mom tends to send it to her grandchildren).

30yrs ago i used to sit outside the weekender hotel in patts.and watch the postman delivering mail to the bars,he would be holding them up to the light as most would have money inside from their loving bf.

So you saw him holding them up to the light and most had money in them...and then? Presumably the point of the dubious anecdote is that he was stealing - but the actual theft is conspicuously absent from the story.

And why would he wait to go to the destination and THEN check?

Went where few would dare to wander (alone)....

Hmmm...maybe.

It's been stolen...It has been stolen...

No signature required + farang writing = stolen.

parcel now received thanks, despite no tracking etc, so not stolen.

***************************parcel now received*********************************

Wait...how can this be? We were already informed of the absolute fact that it was stolen...

Wow. That was WAY off topic. Sorry folks.

rayongchelsea wrote:

KED wrote:

AnotherOneAmerican wrote:

i claudius wrote:

i spoke about it to my wife years ago and her answer was so what ,its their problem ,not ours.

First you say I was speaking 'bullshit'.

Now you say your wife agrees with me, but what other people think doesn't matter.

Or am I not understanding your posts again?

give it a rest, people live life in different ways - just live and let live

this is not a competition -

And there is the problem...farangs have brought with them too many insecurities..they have changed Thailand from what it was once, a place just to be you a non judgmental place.Now it's become I am a better farang than you because..

After this thread I think I will go and retire in Spain..

People didn't ask questions when I got here. You revealed what you wanted to who you wanted and people accepted you at face value or didn't (and as ever the guys who talked up who they were and what they did were known as fakes while the genuinely remarkable folks around - there were plenty, be they SF and CIA types or drug smugglers or whatever - kept a low profile and were respected for it).

I noticed some time back that it seems like people immediately ask, "So what are you doing here? Who are you with?" It's a perfectly reasonable question (though occasionally you sense they are preparing to judge based on your answer, that's not always the case) and I've got nothing to hide these days (my secret missions into Laos are all behind me now and Chuck Norris made the movies about them so the cat is out of the bag there) but I miss the old way where one could maintain some mystery and others would too and information was dealt out sparingly as trust was earned...

Among other things it made for social situations where a broad cross section existed ranging from some guy who ran a shoe factory to a guy running guns to Karen rebels or whatever, sharing a beer...

Next time for 200 pounds get a tracking number.

Otherwise you have no way to trace it.

The only thing you can do is go to the dispatching office in your area.

You will realize what an archaic mess it is !

The manager was quite nice to me: He took my tel number and called me when he received some further mail but I never got many of unregistered parcels (fortunately of low value)

He's right, they nick parcels without tracking numbers.

(Usually your local delivery man)

You were lucky this time.

They "nick" them? Are Americans using that word these days?

The postal service used to be far worse, it seems to me (going by my experience over the last 30 years and anecdotal evidence): I haven't had anything go missing for ages and some things people (foolishly) send me would be easily pilfered and of some value (even cash - my mom tends to send it to her grandchildren).