SteeleJoe

A very sad loss indeed.

RIP

Your gf seems all class also.

I wasn't goiig to say it but that's pretty much what occurred to me when I read the OP; if I were you I'd be more worried about the fact that:

-- Your girlfriend is apparently making lots of demands that you think unreasonable

-- Your girlfriend is friends with this woman (what does she think about this situation? mention of that is conspicuously absent)

-- This woman apparently has some influence on your girlfriend

As for the English guy -- I've faced this dilemma in Thailand a dozen times (especially back in the day when I was involved in the nightlife business) and while there's no perfect answer I generally kept out of it for a number of reasons; not the least among them the fact that -- sort of combining two comments from other posters -- if you wind up in relationship with a Thai girl whom you don't know very well and with whom you have a very weak and superficial foundation, it's generally unrealistic to expect her to remain faithful and celibate just because you've sent her money etc. Moreover you kind of deserve your fate if you are going to be so foolish and presumptuous at the same time (you think you can buy her? not really. she's got you, you don't have her. and as nasty as she may be for doing it, I have a grudging admiration for some of the girls I've known who turned the tables on guys who thought the girls could be bought so easily).

Expect I'll get some heat for these comments especially as I haven't stated things very well....but can't be bothered

Field Marshall General SaRid ThaNaRutt and numerous other old time soldiers would have turned over in their graves in shame...

Interesting transliteration...anyway, you seem to suggest he was some sort of great protector of Thai honor and sovereignty renowned for his martial prowess...Let's see...he did do a lot for the Thai economy. In addition to that, he was a consummate Mafia godfather of massive proportions, a major narcotics tycoon, as well as an accomplished military dictator who put an end, with the most repressive regime of modern Thai history, to Thai efforts of the time towards some sort of democracy (oh, and he also did manage to maintain a stable of allegedly dozens of Mia Nois) -- but I'm not aware that he is anyone about whose good opinion we should worry (even if he were alive).

The tradition here in Thailand is girls suffer the full burden of unwanted babies.

As has been pointed out, that's not always precisely the case -- it's very common indeed for kids to be turned over to the grandparents to be raised (sometimes even if the father hasn't done a runner).

In any case, I couldn't agree more that it would be great if Thai men could somehow be compelled to be more responsible for their actions in regards to procreation; but I'm not sure you can force that sort of fundamental cultural shift by enacting legislation.

Is this because Thai behaviour is built on the patriarchal domination in all facets of Thai culture...?

It's a bit less black and white when it comes to patriarchy or matriarchy in this country but...yeah.

Men are classed as 'studs/lady killers ..women are classed as sluts,prostitutes and ostrasized!!

Isn't this true -- to a lesser or greater extent -- in a vast array of cultures, including nominally more enlightened western countries with a seemingly more emancipated female populace? I mean in the US (just for one example) it's changed to a great degree (from a point relatively recently where it was no different from Thailand in terms of women's sexual liberation), I'm sure, but I suspect an American man with dozens of partners in his sexual history would not be regarded -- by men or women -- the same as an American woman with an equal number.

If the man hops from bed to bed so do the girls....it takes 2 to tango...don't blame just one party...anything that has been said for the man applies equally to the girls. This is not rape we're talking about here..it is consensual sex..both parties are equally responsible..to continually blame or condone the male is discriminatory.

The difference is here (like most places?) the man can do it and not be ill thought of and in fact sometimes be admired; whereas as a woman is viewed much more unkindly for the same behavior.

However, if it makes Canadians feel better to believe they once burned our White House, I think I can speak for Americans when I say, WE DON'T CARE! Enjoy.

Word.

I have just seen who the minister is. He is a dinosaur, who probably grew up in times when premarital sex was taboo so does not see any problem with his new suggestion. "If I didn't do it, you shouldn't either!!!!" His hands are probably heavily calloused too.

It was never taboo for men -- hence the fact that back in the day, the vast majority of men (according to statistics) had their first sexual experience with a prostitute and a great deal of them regularly patronized them; premarital sex was only taboo for "good girls".

It's unlikely any Thai man -- but especially one with a modicum of wealth and power (which he would have, as minister) -- would have to have calloused hands. There has always been the sex industry and mistresses as an alternative.

The White House was burned in 1814 (during the War of 1812) -- decades after Canada came into being (as a British colony). But it was indeed the British who burned it.

How about Book of Brilliant Things - one of my all time favourites, especially live.

Oh, yes. Most definitely.

Right now? Listening to Once Upon A Time. (Inspired by thread to open the Simple Minds folder...)

IMHO, it was the only good song that they ever did and they should have been very grateful to whoever actually wrote it.

No doubt you are not alone in thinking that -- indeed it's not a very Simple Minds song (it was written for The Breakfast Club and not even for them) -- and so it's not surprising that someone who didn't otherwise like Simple Minds liked that one. And I was exaggerating a bit -- it's not a bad song, I just got annoyed with how overplayed it was and how many people knew only that song from them.But there are -- in my opinion -- loads of other good ones, for example:

Up On the Catwalk

Alive and Kicking

New Gold Dream

Waterfront

All The Things She Said

Sanctify Yourself

and...

The last one holds a special place i my heart not only because I think it's so cool but because I heard it (and watched the video) the first time in the Sugar Shack Bar in Bangkok Thailand in 1982 (as I was falling in lust -- though at 19 it sorta felt like love -- with my first Thai chick...and therein lies a tale in itself...).

The Sugar Shack -- everyplace was playing CCR and mostly other crap 70s rock and the Shack was playing videos of Depeche Mode, Duran Duran and the like; cutting edge for its time.

Anyway...I'm sure people stopped reading this a long time ago...

Why a link to one of their worst songs -- and one they didn't write and by all accounts weren't especially proud despite its massive success -- when it's not even the right song?!

Sorry...I liked Simple Minds and used to get annoyed that people would reduce them to that one Top 40 hit...carry on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6riYfLPXk

In the interest of full disclosure: haven't been to Pattaya for almost 6 years. Haven't been involved in or even frequented the bar scene (with the exception of approximately 1/2 dozens evenings out) for even longer than that.

But even if it's somehow changed radically -- which seems unlikely -- it wouldn't change the fact that culture will evolve and has evolved and for better or worse, Pattaya is no more or less Thailand than the smallest changwat in Nakornnowhere.

EDITED FOR TYPO

Ah, yet another “Joe” who arrived very recently but immediately assimilated not only the fundamentals of Thai Culture but had the (abbreviated) history of the Thai Bar scene engraved on his heart – doubtless by Number XXX in Bar 1.

Ah, another fool who thinks length of membership on TV is any indication whatsoever of how experienced and/or knowledgeable one is of Thailand. Truthfully it's rather sad how many posters think that posting on TV is so important...and this one is so astonishingly smug!

Too boring for me and everyone else for me to go into my history, but how's this?

Been here for decades. Lived in Pattaya for several years and been visiting it for 29. Been speaking fluent Thai for 28 years. Spent years running bars. Lived, ate, slept and worked with people "in the bar scene" for years -- not as a customer (not only in sexual relationships of varying depth and duration but very close and decades long platonic ones as well). Worked as paid researcher and consultant on PhD thesis and other works regarding Thai sex industry. Studied and observed Thai culture and history both academically and less formally (but no less rigorously) as a hobby as well as part of my profession. Paid as cross-cultural consultant and trainer.

What does TV have to do with that? And why do I even need to bring any of that up? Only because of your absurd and gratuitously snide comment (not because I am trying to claim I have any more right to comment than anyone else -- only that it's really stupid that one judges my credibility by my post count or when I joined.)

Besides the comment I made doesn't even require knowledge of Thailand -- it just requires one to know what "culture" means.

In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce?...The cuckoo clock. So long, Holly.

Almost every Swiss person I have ever met, or all of them in fact, would take great issue with that.

I should think so. With a role in, or responsibility for, the advent and/or development of:

The Tax Revolt

Direct Democracy

The pencil

The newspaper

The electric telegraph

The internal combustion engine

Playing cards

Contact lenses

Vivisection

Organ transplantation

The Red Cross

No doubt there's more. All while achieving massive wealth and development that it suatains to this day. Not to mention that "Harry" far overstates the role and impact of the Borgias. The qoute is amusing (though overused IMO) and I almsot wish it were accurate as it would sort of uphold some of the things I like to believe - but it aint.

Really getting silly, now -- aren't I? But it amuses me.

lovelomsak

I think you're claims about what you've heard, where you heard it, and how often you heard it -- as well as your unsupported assertions about how common it is -- are highly suspect. Nothing said in your recent post or the article in question supports them in even the slightest way.

Here's the article:

VANCOUVER (Reuters) - Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said on Friday he sees no return to the days of the "Canadian peso", saying the strong currency reflects confidence in the country's economy.

"Business people I've met here certainly share the view -- small business people and big business people -- that the Canadian dollar is not likely to go back to the days of being relatively cheap vis a vis the U.S. dollar. We're done with the Canadian peso," Flaherty told reporters in Vancouver where he was holding pre-budget consultations.

Flaherty said he will present his next budget in March and hopes it will not trigger an election for the minority Conservative government. He will listen to the opposition's requests if they are "good ideas," he said.

(Reporting by Allan Dowd and Leah Schnurr; Writing by Louise Egan; editing by Rob Wilson)

How I understand the article is that from now on the americans cannot say these derogatory things about us, because our dollar willnot drp for a longtime.

Really?! That's how you understand that article? I think there's some real question about your ability to understand what you read -- either that or your intellectual honesty. Because it's says absolutely nothing of the sort nor does it imply it. By the way, the origin of "Canadian Peso" is apparently thus:

Slang for the Canadian dollar during the nineties when it was substantially devalued relative to the American dollar. The Mexicanpeso was also substantially reduced in value during this time, hence the connection. The phrase is less commonly heard in recent times, as the Canadian and American currencies have been nearly at par.

You do realize the term has no apparent connection to any slur against Canadians nor is it clear in any way that it's an indicator of derogatory and discriminatory attitudes typically held by Americans towards Canadians? (I have refrained thus far from pointing out that implicit in your posit is that "Mexican" is an inherently insulting thing to be called; while you may feel that way and no doubt many Americans do, I do not and I'm sure there are many other Americans who'd think as I do -- I'm not willing to concede that as many Americans as you claim go around using "Mexican" as an insult and apparently expect that it would not only be understood as such and generally acceptable to others.

Anyway, I'm not even claiming no one has ever used the slur you cited. I'm just saying your claims are implausible and the more you try and prop them up, the weaker they look.

Edited Because I Can't Type Worth A D_mn

...for the most part the american contingent of NAFTA commonly made statements like "Those mexicans from the north will sign it because we will make them." or "dealing with these Northern mexicans is a pain in the ass". or "when will these northern mexicans learn their place" Yes it is commonly used in power places maybe not in public at sport events or bars, but at board meetings you can bet your boots it is.

The more you say, the less plausible it sounds.

(Especially given that you went from " have heard it more often then (sic) I care too " to "most of the 'mexican fron the north' statements were second hand stories".)

Put down that shovel.

dam_n, I knew I was too tired to post anything...I didn't mean to imply that Vietnam was a victory for Thai forces. (But there were Thai troops who fought well there.)

Most prostitutes sell their eyebrows, along with their pubic hair and armpit hair to wig-makers, who have to blend a mixture of hair to get just the right texture for their wigs.

FACT.

The Thai army (all the armed forces in general) has always been a "paper tiger." Basically only good for putting on fancy uniforms and parading around Bangkok on national holidays and killing unarmed student demonstrators. Got its butt kicked by the Burmese 400 years ago, has been continually loosing national territory to colonial and neighboring countries over the past couple hundred years, got its butt kicked again by the Lao Army (yeah, the Lao Army) a couple decades ago, and is now getting its face rubbed in it in the south.

You forgot the Japs in WWII. Every time I go past Victory Monument with its aviator, I try to recall a victory in the last century. Still working on it.

The monument is meant to glorify Thailand's relative success in its conflict with the colonial French of Indochina wherein, by attacking what was perceived as a weakened French presence (due the occupation of the homeland by the Germans and Japanese takeover of French Indochina) they regained territory previously given to the French decades earlier.

Too bad everything they got back -- thanks to their Japanese sponsors -- they had to give back to the French when the Japanese lost the war. (The price you pay for backing the wrong horse. Then again, the Thais got off pretty lightly for that -- thanks to the Americans.)

As for the analysis of Thai military prowess throughout its history...well...while I'm not necessarily saying that your opinion is entirely unjustified, I suggest you leave that sort of thing to someone with perhaps a bit more knowledge and/or objectivity. And you might also consider that conflating a Siamese Army of 450 years ago to the Thai military of the 20th and 21st century is ridiculous; they may fare better, worse, or equal in comparison but they are completely seperate entities in every single way.

(Both of you forgot Vietnam, by the way. And the fact that the Siamese didn't always lose to the Burmese. Or the Laos. Or the Khmers.)

I am the only westerner living in this strange alternate Thailand where I'm either treated with basic courtesy, mild friendliness, slight interest or complete indifference by 99.99% of Thais I encounter?

No. You definitely are not.

Americans call us mexicans of the north

i lived near the border of Canada and the US for a while and have never heard anything remotely like this. In fact, I do not remember hearing any Americans having anything bad to say about Canadians at all.

I had it said to my face in Thailand by an american. I lived near the border all my life also.30 years on the prairies and 25 years on Vancouver island. I amnot saying it is a dinner table everyday use but have heard it more often then I care too. I also have many american friends I sailed with and against that are good friends that admit to me they are aware that many americans only see us as "mexicans from the north" and they make a real effort to let me know that isnot their feelings. But we are talking Thailand here and like I said it was said right to my face,here in Thailand and the consensus was with the guy who said it.

Another time an american said the reason thais donot understand me is because of my mexican accent.

Don't buy it.

Sorry -- didn't see that the stats site had already been linked.

By the way, I'm not trying to pioint out how awful Thailand is (or the US). There's really only two reasons this comparison matters to me:

1. I always get annoyed by people who speak with certainty about something which they in fact don't really know enough -- especially when it's Thailand.

2. Thailand's relative position on these lists flies in the face of what's said by so many Farangs I've heard or read over the years gushing over how the Thais are so peaceful and non-violent unlike the savages that visit it.

I think there's a lot of great things about Thailand. Some things are better here than the US, in my opinion, and I have mostly good feelings about the Thais as a whole. But this isn't heaven and they aren't Angels.

EDITED FOR TYPOS

In fact, it probably happens much more often in the USA, where murders and other crimes are much higher than in Thailand.

uhhmmmm...not according to this:

Murders Per Capita

Thaialnd at #14, the US at #24...hmmm. And since you are discussing murder with a firearm (and claiming it happens more often elsewhere), what about this:

Per capita

Thailand at #3, the US at #8.

Look, I'm the LAST guy to try and convince anyone that the US is somehow better than Thailand -- neither country has anything to be proud about in those statistics (but don't you feel ridiculous at being such a stereotype -- to go the old predictable "the US is worse!"). As I've posted before (another thread) I'm a person who gets real tired of people who live here or visit regularly and work so hard at bashing the place ina an over the top and totally subjective fashion. But I also get annoyed by those who romaticize and idealize it -- and the while latter group may not be all jaded and bitter like the former, they tend to be the ones who put even weaker and more factually inaccurate arguments.

So feel free to believe that Thailand is wonderful and America/the west is evil - but at least don't mix up fallacy with your rhetoric (ie don't try and use facts as it's much more honest to just keep it about feelings since ultimately that's what makes you say things like the above qoute.)

PS: Maybe these stats are completely off -- it'd be doing me a favor if someonw were to prove me wrong cuz I really want to know.

I always tell people I'm from Canada. So do many of my friends from the states

Man, that's lame. While I'm not even slightly ashamed of being American, I'm no flag-waving uber-patriotic idiot either -- but I'd never deny where I was from no matter where it was. Especially not because some as***les wanted to judge me based on where I was born. They have a problem with me because of the passport I carry? (when I myself have zero prejudice against any nationality?) And I'm supposed to let those cretins make me cower and lie?

Nope. Not going to happen.

Americans call us mexicans of the north

<deleted>? I've never even heard that said, let alone said it myself.

especially in the Middle East (where there precious oil is)

Yeah, it must be nice to live in all the rest of the countries where oil isn't precious...