Steely Dan

If you parked under a flyover in Bangkok for long enough you wouldn't need to buy mosquito repellant sticks to create the lethal fumes. Sad, but it sometimes seems that Thailand is becoming the suicide hub of Asia.

It is quite clear from some of the postings on this topic that many of you are completely misinformed about Islam & Muslims. Perhaps this is due to the poor representation or as some like to say, the Islamaphobia that is prevalent in the european media. Some of you even find it difficult to make the distinction between muslims & terrorists.

Please find below a peice that was recently printed in a UK newspaper. I am really impressed by the way the UK have handled this issue and it seems that they finally have realised that to forge a safer & unified international community, we need to re-build bridges and we ALL need to remain calm and show unconditional love for our fellow man regardless of creed or religion.

Hello all, please read this. Unfortunately all mainstream press are going with this Islamophobic tide and sometimes we need an alternative angle.

Cartoon row: the issue is racism

This is not about "freedom of speech". It's not about a "war of civilisations". It's about racism. Anyone who doubts that need look no further than the right wing Danish paper that commissioned the notorious anti-Muslim cartoons last September.

It would have us believe it was all for a noble principle of "freedom of speech". Oh, really? This is the same paper, Jyllands-Posten, which:

Campaigned in 1984 to censor an artist who produced an erotic image of Jesus.

Refused three years ago to print a cartoon because the editors said it would provoke an outcry among Christians.

No brave commitment to freedom of speech there. That was

only invoked, cynically, when the editors chose to target Muslims, not for debate about religious views, but with bigoted caricatures that imply every Muslim is a terrorist.

One rule for the majority, another for Arab, Asian and African immigrants. There's a word for that - it's called racism.

And the same scapegoating, masked by the same hypocrisy about freedom, is oozing from the other right wing papers in Europe that have leapt to give these racist images a wider circulation.

The French paper France-Soir claims it is committed to freedom of expression. But not, it seems, for Muslims.

The same paper supports the French government's ban on young Muslim women wearing headscarves in school. What's "tolerant" or "liberal" about that?

As for those who claim it is impossible to be racist against Muslims because Islam is a religion "not a race", consider the followers of the Jewish faith.

If a paper

reprinted a cartoon depicting a Jewish person in the manner of Nazi propaganda in the 1930s, every liberal paper and commentator would rightly slam the racism, rather than denouncing Jewish people and anti-­racists for being outraged.

None would say it was merely a question of debating religious views rather than being about spreading racism.

Yet in Britain, while no paper has republished the cartoons, we have not had furious editorials in the millionaire-owned press exposing the racist demonisation of Muslims.

Instead, the media is further demonising Muslims by suggesting that they don't understand "Western democracy" and press freedom.

These well paid editors could do with learning a thing or two themselves about standing up to censorship.

The lot of them have gone along with government censorship in refusing to name Nicholas Langman, an MI6 agent implicated in the illegal seizure of Pakistani immigrants in

Greece.

What kind of fearless media is this that refuses to stand up to powerful secret government agencies, but berates some of the most powerless people in society?

And make no mistake, Muslim immigrants in Europe are among the most downtrodden across the continent.

In Britain they fall behind the average on every social indicator - housing, earnings, employment, education. The same is true in France, Germany, Demark and the rest of the European Union.

And since 11 September 2001 they have been systematically targeted. Anti-Muslim racism, Islamophobia, is the ideological cover for George Bush's endless "war on terror".

The US and British military refuse to even count the number of dead in Iraq. That would not be the case if they, their governments and the bulk of the media considered the lives of brown skinned Muslims in the Middle East every bit as valuable as those who have been killed in New York, Madrid and London.

They don't. "Our" names honoured, "theirs" not even recorded - racism.

The British government cannot admit that the war on Iraq and decades of Western intervention in the Middle East are the reason why Britain and the US are so hated in the region and beyond.

Instead, we are told it is something to do with Muslims themselves. And in order to prove you are a "good Muslim", not an "evil extremist", you have to sign up to Bush and Blair's campaign. Hence there are the endless loyalty tests.

Liberal

Supposedly liberal commentators feel no restriction, show no signs of "self censorship", when they routinely abuse people who were born here (and who happen to be Muslim) of being insufficiently British - racism.

Government ministers sense no shame in telling one group of people what language they should speak in their own home, as if every British resident on the

Costa del Sol spoke Spanish round the kitchen table.

This "respectable" Islamophobia fuels the violent racist attacks of the Nazi British National Party (BNP), which exploits the general anti-Muslim climate and whose leader, a Holocaust denier, walks away from a court case over incitement to racial hatred.

And when those on the receiving end of all this speak out and protest, they are demonised again.

Stereotypes

The cameras seek out those images that will confirm the provocative stereotypes that people are objecting to in the first place.

It's like kicking someone repeatedly and then, when they hit back, saying, "Look, I told you they were violent."

And the overall effect goes beyond Muslim people who are targeted. For if those responsible for wars, exploitation here and across the globe, and the destruction of our civil liberties succeed in scapegoating Muslims, we

will all suffer - Muslim or not.

Racism has always meant divide and rule. It has always been undermined by unity of working people against the common enemy we all face.

Jaffy, Whilst I don't condone racism in any form and I don't accept the BNP as bedfellows of convenience I still have the following observations. I can provide sources for information backing up my points from articles published on the BBC, who are hardly fox news.

1. The cartoons appeared in an Egyptian newspaper during ramadan, where was the furore then, why no burning of Egyptian embassies or economic boycotts?

2. The Danish Iman added three pictures not published in the paper to fan the flames when he went to the middle east, one of these (extra) pictures could clearly be seen brandished by protestors storming an EEC representative building in Gaza.

3. The Arab press are constantly publishing antisemitic literature such as the protocols of the elders of zion, so there is a clear double standard at work here.

4. An Islamic extremist group was convicted in Denmark of incitement to murder back in 2003 so the 'oppressed minority' are not exclusively victims.

5. The press have a justifiable reason for defending their right to freedom of expression within the law be they left wing or right wing. The murder of the Dutch film producer Theo Van Gogh for making a film some extremists disapproved of illustrates perfectly just why the press may see fit to make a stance protecting their rights.

6. Secular democracies are just that secular. The aricle mentioned Le Soir defending the French government stance on Muslims not wearing headscarves in schools. Well Turkey have the same rule regarding to their libraries and educational establishments. I suppose they are Islamophobic too Furthermore speaking the language of a Country allows easier integration with society and access to jobs markets. Such integration does not eliminate differences but certainly helps co-existance. On a personal level I once lived in Brussels and my girlfriend at the time walked into an area where many Moroccan imigrants lived. She had abuse screamed at her and stones thrown in her direction as her shoulders were not covered. Now Belgium is a secular democracy and it is right for its citizens to suscribe to acceptance of the laws of the land. It takes two to tango and I would ask the question as to how many times you can recall say Chinese or Jewish minorities rioting in Europe or the U.S. Downtrodden is as downtrodden does.

well my friend that is a scary comment but in my mind, also a very true comment. by the very nature of the beast the muslim religion [not people] does not want to co-exist or tolerate the infidels [any other religion]

I would have expected some solid references for your views after making such a dangerous comment. From my little knowledge about Islam, I know that Muslims are asked to respect Christians and Jews, and the latter are referred to as "the people of the book" in the Quran. A historical evidence for this is the seven centuries long Islamic reign in Spain (711-1492), where every Muslim, Christian, and Jew, was treated fairly and all lived in harmony (also called the Golden Age). On the other hand, the crusaders killed every Muslim and Jew when they captured Jerusalem in 1099, even the ones who sought refuge in Solomon's temple.

Gulliver, Credit where credit is due, the Muslims had an undeniable golden age of art, scientific advancement and tolerance towards other religions, that was then this is now. I enclose a link from the BBC website featuring surprise, surprise an extremist Islamic group who were prosecuted in Denmark for incitement to kill Jews - They quoted the Koran directly, citing a sentence which implores Muslims to kill Jews wherever they find them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3182271.stm

To quote from the above link

--------------------------

We went to Denmark, where Hizb Ut Tahrir has come to the attention of the police and the courts because of its anti-Semitic views. In March and April 2002, Hizb Ut Tahrir handed out leaflets in a square in Copenhagen, and at a mosque. The leaflet, which also appeared on the Danish groups internet site, makes threats against Jews, using a quote from the Koran urging Muslims to 'kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have been turned you out.' The leaflet also said, 'The Jews are a people of slander...a treacherous people... they fabricate lies and twist words from their right context.' And the leaflet describes suicide bombings in Israel as "legitimate" acts of "Martyrdom".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makes you see the Danish Imans recent trips to the middle east in a slightly different light I think.

Yesterday, on this website I posted 2 news photos of Iraqi child victims of US/British bombs and they were immediately removed by the enlightened action of the fine white men that prevail on this forum. They sure wouldn’t want anyone to see those.

Any of you high-minded lovers of free speech want to complain about that censorship? Of course not, you shore do like the freedom to taunt them nasty old Muslims, though.

The sad, frustrated, powerless Muslims use the opportunity to rally for the cause and vent their rage against the perceived enemy.

The sad, flag-waving, ignorant racists use the opportunity to rally for the cause and vent their rage against the perceived enemy.

Reminds me of when the pea-brain rednecks were up in arms about the riots in the US cities back in the 60’s and were screaming about sending ‘em all back to Africa. Seems the darkies were getting’ just too big for their britches.

Some things just never change.

Rednecks will be rednecks.

Free speech! Yeah, right. How noble. Um-hmm.

Your comparison is skewed beyond belief. If I posted pictures of women and children blown limb from limb on buses in Israel then I'm sure the pictures would have been removed for the same reason.

Pictures of mutilation and death are slightly different from satirical cartoons, afterall nobody knows what Mohammud looked like so they were not caricatures, just a satirical dig at the psychopathic bigots who say Islam is peace, Allah is mercyful and then promptly proceed to blow up civilians in their names (PBUT Sic) - But then again the whimsical quip that Mohammud would maybe have liked some of the Miss World contestants led to 100 deaths in Nigeria.

Fanatics will be fanatics

The last few weeks have been pretty amazing. The seething Islamic world goes berserk over some five month old cartoons, and the Muslim's loudly proclaim - "Our religion is special" - you (and particularly we) can say or do anything in relation to other religions (like blowing up ancient statues, or murdering clergymen), but defame our religion, and you deserve death.

Well, screw that. Islam is not special. Islam is just another belief system, that is followed by less than 20% of the world's population.

Islam is not special. It should be treated the same as all other religions - for better and for worse.

Including time I spent in Egypt and Morocco is the early 1990's, I previously viewed Islam as one more fairly standard belief system - and I respected it on the same level as I respected Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism. I'm personally non-religious, but I had no significant problem with any religion - particularly inso far as they all seemed to share about 98% of the same basic priciples of communal life.

Well, over the past 15 years, my view of Islam has changed dramatically. I didn't think my opinion of Islam could go much lower that it was already at, two weeks ago. But this cartoon crap has indeed lowered my opinion another notch.

What amazes me is that world government sand the main stream media are going along with "Islam is special". Screw that. Islam seems to have a whole host of barbaric and evil associations:

1) Almost all (if not all) violations of the soverignty of diplomatic Embassies over the past 40 years has been by various Islamic groups - in perhaps a dozen or more countries. And - they were right there, doing it again, this month. "Islam is special - we don't have to observe diplomatic norms of all the civilized nations."

2) The only violence at the Intenational Olympic Games - Islamic terrorists, 1972.

And so on .... including all the outrages enumerated above by other posters.

Islam is devoid of tolerance for other belief systems. It strives for only one thing - creation of a global, 12th Century theocracy, under rule of Sharia law.

Every government, and every media outlet on earth should be opposing this fanaticism at every opportunity. Pandering to it only serves to embolden it.

The interesting question is: What new Islamic outrage is coming next?

Think: Tehran '79, 9-11-2001; Beslan, the Bamyan Buddhist statues, the beheadings, Madrid, London, Bali, etc., etc.

There is always a "next outrage" taking shape. hel_l, they are down to outrages over cartoons. What's next? Outrage over vegetables? Stars in the sky? Science fiction? Cookies? The color blue?

One good thing about the cartoon issue - I think that maybe 5 million, or maybe 50 million, or maybe 500 million non-Muslims got an eye-opening awakening earlier this month into what sort of lunacy is at work within the global Islamic movement.

There should be a "stop Islam now" movement taking shape, and the outrageous behavior of the Islamacists over the cartoons should help that counter-movement take shape.

The clock is ticking down toward a lambasting of Iran - I see little chance that a non-military resolution will be worked out with the certifiably insane leadership of Iran. That conflict will give Islam a new focus for their seething - particularly insofar as Israel will probably be a significant actor.

Connect the dots - starting in 1972 at Munich - through hundreds of other violent actions taken in the name of Allah - and you reach the inescapable conclusion - Islam CANNOT co-exist with all the other belief systems on earth. Either Islam must be destroyed, or all the other belief systems must be erradicated. This is actual formal POLICY within the Islamic belief system.

'Pretty easy choice for me.

Indo-Siam

Indo-Siam, I agree with all of your sentiments and could not have expressed them more eloquently. I would just add that if the governments who are supposed to run secular democracies are too spineless to stand up for free speech then it's about time the silent majority took them to task until they do. A wish list would include the following.

1) Don't consider changing our laws to pander to a minority who view our democratic principles with contempt.

2) Enforce existing incitement laws;- The jailing of Abu Hamza was a start, but what about the protestors in London waving placards such as 'Your 9/11 is coming'.

3) Stand side by side with the Danish government and recall all diplomatic representation from any Country which does not give adequate protection to all embassies and consulates.

4) Expose the hpocrisy of the current furore instead of pandering to the mass hysteria of a rabble whipped up into a frenzy by those with an axe to grind. The previous publication of the cartoons in Egypt and the constant rehashing of the notorious forgery 'The protocols of Zion' would be a start.

5) Get your collective butts into gear about finding renewable energy sources so you don't have to pander to the totalitarian regimes which control much of the worlds oil.

6) The governments of the U.S and Europe should stop funding a terrorist organization such as Hamas, why should western taxpayers money go to those who blow up buses and hold us in contempt?

Here is a couple of pics which has been circulated around the muslim countries by Imams from Denmark, despite they have nothing to do with the newspaper cartoons, they have also been shown on BBC for which they did issue an apology yesterday.

The pics are from the annual French pig farmers party, nothing to do with Mohammed.

Correct, but actually a copy of the pic (pig ) was delivered, in a blank enevelope, to a Danish Imam...who made a big fuss about it....looking in a mirror perhaps?...what's the saying? "who fits the shoe......"

LaoPo

That was a good one Lao.

I can hardly think of anything rasher

I found this caricature of a bearded Scotsman on the internet. Is this offensive to Scots?

Blaspheemer, that's my Avatar, I found it first

I wonder how they train the chefs who know how to cook it? Seems like a lot of bother to me.

My Thai girlfriend and I became an item last valentines day. I hope that we weren't observed by any government snatch team, or the mother-in-law to be Buddha forbid.

This is hardly a victimless crime is it? Was he too lazy to work as a TEFL teacher if he was skint and wanted to stay in LOS. Just for future reference I would love to know whether he was given back his passport or whether he got one down Khaosan Rd. I guess he'll forfeit the 50K but can offset that against any overstay fine.

I saw the BBC 'hardtalk' program yesterday featuring an interview with Abu Hamza back in 2003. Very revealing it was. Apparently the Jews were responsible for 9/11, even though the terrorists who flew the planes were martyrs (not sure I follow his logic there )

The most amusing bit was when it was mentioned that prior to becoming a 'cleric' Abu Hanza was a bouncer in a soho strip club. Very Islamic I must say

This must be a photograph of The Mad Hatter's Tea Party?

But what puzzles me da most is "Why is he spending so much money in the North?

Has he forgotten the South?

Brilliant! If the hat fits wear it. They've been repairing the pavements along my road as well so you don't have to be Indiana Jones to navigate it safely.

George, Maybe the following from NBC warrants a separate thread.

Thai Muslims angered by Quran-quoting rap

CDs recalled after complaints that Joey Boy's songs insult their faith

Sakchai Lalit / AP

Thai rap music singer Joey Boy gives a traditional Thai "wai" to apologize during a Tuesday press conference in Bangkok. He responded to complaints that one of his songs that includes a verse from the Quran.

View related photos

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Updated: 12:33 p.m. ET Feb. 7, 2006

BANGKOK, Thailand - A music distributor recalled two Thai rap CDs from stores Tuesday after Muslims complained the tracks insult their faith.

An article on the Thai-language Muslim Web site www.muslimthai.com said a song recorded on CDs in 1998 and 2005 “clearly insults the Quran,” the Muslim holy book.

It said the CDs contain verses from the Quran and “the Quran strictly forbids the use of its verses in songs.”

Story continues below ↓

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The Council of Muslim Organizations of Thailand said rapper Joey Boy and songwriter Kamol Sukosol Clapp, also known as Suki, should not have used the Quranic verses.

The song, “Maya,” was released in 1998 on a Joey Boy CD called “Bangkok Boy” and appeared again on the 2005 compilation “The Conclusive Collection.”

Sony BMG Music Entertainment Thailand has recalled both CDs, and they will probably be destroyed, said Saharat Vanchompoo, the Sony marketing director.

Joey Boy and Clapp apologized at a news conference to “all Muslims” for producing the song.

“I did not intend to insult the Quran in any way,” said Joey Boy, whose real name is Abhisit Opasiemlikit. “If I knew that there was an insulting sound or element in my song, Suki and I would not have created it.”

The rapper, the songwriter, and Sony BMG’s Saharat said they have requested a meeting as soon as possible with Thailand’s top Muslim leader to formally apologize.

In Europe, drawings of the Prophet Muhammad published in a Danish paper have sparked violent protests in the Muslim world.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

It is disappointing but sadly not unexpected to read alot of your responses to the happennings around the world. The muslim-bashers amongst you (what we used to call paki-bashers in UK) would feel right at home here in Denmark, where it is perfectly acceptable to spout almost any kind of filth, as long as it is directed at non-whites, muslim or not.

It is impossible to make any informed statements about the 'Muhammad' 'caricatures' without having a semblance of background information, that the majority of you clearly lack. Anything else is just posture, a kind of literal masturbation, where you try to raise each other in absurd generalisations and offensive language.

For the record, the vast and silent majority of muslims in Denmark are angered and appalled by the continual 'bully-boy' tactics employed by the 'free and independent' Danish press. Muslims in particular and immigrants in general are consistently picked on for smear campaigns, ridicule and general 'putting the boot in'. The vast and silent majority of Danish muslims are equally appalled by the violent reactions to the 'caricatures'. The vast and silent majority of Danish muslims, much like the vast and silent majority of ethic Danes, merely want a good job, a place to live and raise their children and the possibility of giving their children some of the opportunities they themselves did not have.

If you feel a boycot of Danish goods will make you feel better or improve the situation, then feel free to do so. If you feel that buying Danish goods will make you feel better or improve the situation, please do that. If you feel that repeatedly publishing a 'caricature' of a significant part of the global population's chosen deity, will do anything but make you feel good, you have your head planted firmly up your arse.

The editor of the Danish newspaper, Jyllands Posten, has his head planted very firmly up his arse.

So you are outraged by the Danish press printing a satirical cartoon concerning your deity, whose divine credentials have no basis in science and hence are an act of faith on your part - No problem there, the Aboriginees in Australia, Rastafarians in Ethiopia and Voodoo priests in Haiti have their own faiths too afterall.

So taking a step back it's one thing to attack a deity who may or may not exist and quite another to villify a race who certainly still do exist - I refer to the following program shown on Syrian TV the other day.

'The Diaspora (Al-Shatat), a Syrian-produced TV series depicting how Jews, as ideology and religious conviction, are trying to subjugate the entire world, is now being broadcast for the third time in recent years on Arabic language Satellite TV. It was first broadcast in 2003 on Al-Manar (Hizbollah TV), in 2004 is was aired on Iranian TV, and now it is being broadcast during the Ramadan on Jordanian TV Al-Mamnou [see below about Al-Mamnou].

The series presents itself as an authentic historical depiction of the period of the Zionist movement and revolves around the "Secret Jewish World Government," whose members meet and plan how to control the leaders of the world, and thus, direct all of history. The Jewish Government is shown plotting and causing the Russian Revolution, the World Wars, encouraging the Nazi murder of Jews, and engineering the use of atomic bombs on Japan. The Jews are described as evil and bloodthirsty, interested only in power and world domination.

The series also includes horrific distortions of Judaism, including the presentation of the use of a Christian child's blood in preparation of Matzah for Passover, as religious necessity. The graphic episode features Jews kidnapping a Christian boy and slitting his throat to drain his blood, and the brutal execution of a Jew by a "Talmudic" court, by pouring boiling lead down his throat.'

And the hue and cry about a few cartoons is deathening. Stinking and hypocrite can be arranged in whatever order you like

My opined two Bhat. Hey!

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on Muslim streets on 9/11/2001, when 3,000 people from 80 countries where butchered in the name of extreme Islam in New York. I saw mostly only rejoicing and jubilance for the most part.

Similarly I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on the Muslim Streets, when 323 School Children and teachers were butchered at BESLAN, Russia.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on the Muslim streets for the Bali massacre of over 200 mostly western tourist.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on the Muslim street when 88 people most Jewish Tourist were killed in a bomb attack at the Egyptian resort of Sharm al-Sheikh.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on the Muslim Street for 11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings which killed 191 people and wounded 2,050.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on Muslim streets on 7 July 2005 when 52 Londoners on their way to work where killed.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran outrage on Muslim streets on about Muslim extremists, in Iraq, killing over 9,000 of their fellow Muslims in the last 13 months. Nor of those Muslims Killed In Saudia Arabia and elsewhere.

I saw no expressions of peaceful dedication as principled within the Quoran nor outrage on the Muslim streets when the worst of Islam, the Taliban and their murderous ally and co-government ,Al Queda, destroyed a centuries old irreplaceable Buddhist Shrine In Afghanistan.

Undated photo of the world's tallest statue of Buddha measuring 53 meters (175 feet) in Bamiyan, 125 kilometers (90 miles) west of Kabul in Afghanistan. Supreme Commander of the Taliban Mullah Mohammad Omar had ordered the destruction of all statues in Afghanistan, including the centuries-old Buddha in Bamiyan, and armed Taliban troops fanned out across the country Thursday to implement the supreme leader's order. (AP Photo)

This is what is left:

I see no outrage on the Muslim streets about the innumerable volumes of anti-Christian and Anti-Jewish and Anti-Buddhist Caricatures omnipresent for decades in the Arab, Iranian and Muslim Press depicting far more insults and degradations upon these non-Muslims.

Break the Muslim Boycott Buy Danish products!!!

A Sample of Danish product we can buy and help in supporting the Danish against this fallacious and disingenuous Muslim economic boycott. Please Add others you are aware of.

Carlsberg and Tuborg Beers.

famous Danish cheese

Danish Havarti cheese

“Arla Foods”

Arla owns White Clover Dairy, a Wisconsin company so buy that brand. It comes under White Clover and Holland Farm.

Danish Crown hams ( DAK (sold at Sam clubs)... baby back ribs, because they come from Denmark.

You shop online at The Danish Foodshop and Danish Deli Foods

You can also buy gorgious Danish porcelain Danish porcelain and LEGO for the kids

Bizrate Gifts from Denmark

List of Danish Companies

I couldn't agree more, a quote from the clash of civilisations springs to mind. 'Islam has got bloody borders'.

You could have also mentioned the Arab militias from Sudan extending their rape, murder and torture of victims to Christian villages in neighbouring Chad. The whole furore started out as a joke (similar to the one that caused 100 deaths when the Miss world contest was held in Nigeria) but now has become extremely important for the future of free speech.

ALL democratic nations should stand together on this with their press taking a lead and printing the pictures, shame on Jack Straw for having no backbone and shame on the BBC here too for caving in.

Furthermore all democratic Countries should close their Embassies in any Country which allows rioters to torch a foreign embassy.

Imho now is not the time for appeasement, when the mainstream Muslims take back moral control of their religion from the filth that purports to represent them I'll be the first to acknowledge this.

Thai Muslims protest outside Danish Embassy over controversial caricatures

The argument of some European countries that they could not control media for the sake of press freedom is unacceptable, said the Thai Muslim statement.

Here lies the crux of the problem, Western democracies fought wars so we could at least pretend to live in a state allowing freedom of speech. Now groups forming a minority in western Countries expect the law to change in order to pander to their beliefs! I guess atheists will always have a problem with the concept of blasphemy.

Sorry this just doesn't make any sense

Ok, to put it another way, why should secular democracies consider changing their laws at the behest of foreigners who believe they have been insulted? Afterall there is no proof that a 'God' exists, and so the Danish press might have done no more than insult someone's imaginary friend.

P.S A quote from the Koran, 'He deserves paradise he who makes his companions laugh' Shame so many don't bother consulting the owners manual.

Thai Muslims protest outside Danish Embassy over controversial caricatures

The argument of some European countries that they could not control media for the sake of press freedom is unacceptable, said the Thai Muslim statement.

Here lies the crux of the problem, Western democracies fought wars so we could at least pretend to live in a state allowing freedom of speech. Now groups forming a minority in western Countries expect the law to change in order to pander to their beliefs! I guess atheists will always have a problem with the concept of blasphemy.

I'm bemused by the link being made between a secular democratic government and it's independent press. I'm reminded of the Monty Python film the Life of Bryan and the stoning sketch when everyone kept saying Jehovah. A more modern and closer to home example is the film made last year where on the promotional poster a man was sat on the head of a Buddha statue with his feet dangling in front. This lead to protests from religious leaders in Thailand and Sri Lanka, and the posters were duly removed with an apology, which is in sharp contrast to economic boycotts, death threats and the burning down of embassies. I'm glad to hear the Thai protest was peaceful as the protesters were exercising their right to protest in a democratic manner.

Maintenance may have been perfect too. There is always Foreign Object Damage to consider too. Did a large bird get sucked through the engine? Or is it an engine design weakness now showing up after years of use? I am sure the folks from Boeing and GE or Pratt and Whitney engine manufactures will participate in the investigations and they will ultimately figure it out.

Hmmm, 'Did a large bird get sucked through the engine?' With an airline called Nok air that would be unfortunate to say the least. I always have been amazed by that golf course built so close to Don Muang, as with my slice I reckon I could make the control tower with a head wind.

I suspect the main stock market shocks will spread as a ripple from the U.S. I note that foreign investors are net buyers of Thai stock and Thais are net sellers. I suspect I know who will be proven the wiser here. As a Britain living in Thailand my admittedly selfish interests would be served by the Thai Baht depreciating against Sterling. High oil prices and a drop off in tourism would be the favourite causes for any depreciation in the Baht

I stayed at a guesthouse on Klong Khong beach (Ko Lanta) a few weeks ago. The people there were so lovely; they treated us like family. I have not been able to get through by e-mail and though I'm very worried for them I don't want to burden them with unneccessary phone calls. Can anyone tell me whether this part of Lanta was spared - I would love to help by confirming this and recommending them to everyone I know as a brilliant holiday destination.

P.S Lanta Merry Hut Resort is their name; I just pray they are all ok, does anyone have any info on Klong Khong beech???

It's a sad amoral world we live in! Whilst I agree that the Thai criminal justice system is a standing joke I'm saddened that some people have used this tragic case to make comments about the Thai people in general which border on racism. So what can we do? Lobby our governments and use the British tabloid press to campaign for a boycott of Thai goods until norms of international justice prevail (whatever they may be)? Laudable and neccessary though such actions may be from a human justice point of view I suspect that economics will be the main driver for change. A boom built on borrowing is a shaky edifice and an end to the good times here and tourists going elsewhere will cause more rapid change than anything we can do. How long will it be before we see 100 Baht to the pound? Then of course farang speculators will be blamed by the ruling powers for their own failure just as they were in 1998.

I was wondering, do you have to practise chastity in order to get better at it?

Great stuff! At least in the senate at least the Southern issue is not being swept entirely under the carpet. I hope the senator accused of collaborating with Myannmar drug smugglers gets out alive as the MIB could well shoot him on speculation alone.

This is very sad.

And wrong, one wrong does not justify another.

QUOTE(britmaveric @ 2004-11-03 01:48:11)

Uh oh!  ohmy.gif  Bad move- Not very wise beheading- now those lot down south are going to be associated with those nutters in Iraq.

*

I think the association has alas already been made. I've stated already how ineptly the Thai authorities have handled the recent riot but the southern muslims adopting fundamentalist tactics means their (legitimate?) grievences can not be met or it would send a message to all disaffected minorities to adopt similar tactics. We are now playing for high stakes both in Thailand and on the wider world stage.

The association is unjustified.

The guys in Iraq made demands, and the live decapitation was conditional, demands not met=decapitation.

In Thailand the killing and subsequent beheading was not conditional, no demands were made which if met could have prevented the death. This was a revenge killing.

I repeat: The monk was first shot, then beheaded, the event was not dependant on any demands being met, it was a revenge killing.

I do not justify nor condone this. I am pointing out the differences to the acts in Iraq.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok Stroll I will concede you that - it was a revenge killing, but beheading after the fact kind of ties your colours to the mast doesn't it? Thaksin had a tightrope to tread now in reaching out to the majority of the Southern muslims whilst capturing and punishing wrongdoers in a consistent way and within the framework of the law.