hellodolly

Grenades are fired, detonated bombs and shotings into crowds.

People die and what do the police?

So far, nothing.

Not a single case elucidated.

Have the police stopped to work for the people in this country?

I didn't realise they ever did.

I can not believe that somebody can launch grenades in the center of a major city, simply unseen. Over all are CCTV and certainly eye-witnesses.

Why the police do not work with all forces to arrest this killers? The passivity of the so-called police authorities is really worrying.

Until now, also no statement from the government police (DSI, CMPO, CAPO).

Totally agree and this regent attack was in broad daylight and a M79 grenade launcher would be hard to conceal under a tee shirt.

I think they were in a vehicle speeding by. Seems to me on another thread about the red shirts recent get together they showed a few of them in red jackets. Some with out any red on them. Also a grenade can be launched with out a gun.

It's getting to the point where a coup, although far from ideal, may be the only way to go in the short term.

Of course it would damage Thailand's reputation or what's left of it, but at least it would put a stop to Suthep's rantings and the government's incompetence. It would be an opportunity to take a time out, establish some order so people can get on with theirt day to day living again and during which time both parties can take stock and offload their unwanted baggage (you know who they are) and start afresh.

Might be worth a try.

Not a chance in hell of that benefiting Thailand. You can bet any one of value to Thailand would be one of the first Thaksin would let go. Yes it might stop Suthep from ranting so much as it part of what he wants.

Unfortunately it is only part of what he wants. He also wants a real reform in the government before an election which makes a lot of sense. To just hold an election would be tantamount to same same no matter who wins. To med it doesn't matter as long as they can bring unity to Thailand in a free way. Not a dictatorial manner.

The way it is now all the votes are for sale the voting stations are not all secret voting some of them you are watched to make sure you vote the way the head man tells you the ballot boxes in many locals are available to be tampered with at night.

If nothing else was changed that would be OK for a start. It would certainly bring some new faces into the house. There would have to be a stipulation that the new government no matter who they were was to start reforming other dubious sections of the constitution. Also immediately start on the search for a way to educate the students to the point where they can reason, use logic and add 2 + 2 and get 4 in their heads with out a calculator or using their fingers.

It would also help if there was a definite time period between elections. None of this the heat is getting to hot in the kitchen I think I will quit. Stick it out and show your true colors or have the house elect a new PM.

Im afraid it has become a North v South.Another Sudan

Heck it would first be North verses North to decide which side North would be on. Same with the North East.

They are no longer all red shirt followers if they were in the first place. Many of them were red shirts because not to be one would have left them in a dangerous position in there village. It was OK with them then as they weren't expected to live in the jungle and come out on perilous raids. Just tell the idiot next to them they were a red shirt and they would get along fine.

On second thought the idea of Jatuporn living in a soggy tent in the jungle has a certain appeal.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, as I am to mine. I would like to post an extract from what I consider a very well written letter by an obviously well educated Thai citizen, Chan Nilgianskul:

"There is more to the Amnesty Bill than meets the eye. For you to say that it is obvious that “this law was passed solely to pave way for Thaksin’s return as a free man with all his wealth restored” shows nothing but shallowness. You have allowed your deeply enshrined political partisanship to blur your analysis. You claim to speak as a “US-trained lawyer,” while it is your prejudice that is doing the actual talking. Mr. Obama deserves better.

For all his weaknesses, Thaksin is not so strategically inept as to think that he could unilaterally push through the Amnesty Bill. Make no mistake; there was undoubtedly some sort of “deal” or at least an understanding in place between the Thaksin camp and key establishment figures before the bill was passed by the Lower House.

“To state the obvious”:

1) There were many enemies of Thaksin who would have benefited from and may have quietly welcomed the Amnesty Bill, but also wanted to appear to the public that they were ready to accept responsibility for their crimes. For example, the 2006 coup leaders (who under the annulled 1997 Constitution in force at the time would have been tried for treason) and several members of the Abhisit administration (who were facing murder charges for the excessively violent 2010 protest crackdowns), to name but a few.

2) Since the bill would still have to pass through the half-appointed and predominantly “anti-Thaksin” Senate before being presented for Royal Assent, it is unlikely that there had been no acknowledgement behind the scenes from those outside the Thaksin camp.

It is also interesting, although not necessarily relevant, to note that prisoners of conscience serving sentences for lese-majeste were for some unknown reasons not included in the amnesty plans, despite many of them being die-hard supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra.

The more logical explanation is that the conservatives, seeing massive popular reaction against the Amnesty Bill, saw the situation as an opportunity to abandon the reconciliation efforts and instead attempt to bring down Thaksin yet again by employing street politics.

"

Nevertheless, we can agree to disagree. But do you not agree that Thailand is standing very precariously on the edge of a very deep abyss? And all it takes a just one more little shove to reach the point of no return. If that were to happen, wouldn't you think that maybe, just maybe, the price for the amnesty bill would have been or might have been a price worth paying?

"Very well written" maybe. But I don't agree with it. On the anti-Thaksin side, the amnesty would have benefited Abhisit and Suthep, but they've been adamant that they wouldn't accept amnesty under any conditions. I suppose that there may have been a push from the hard core yellow shirts behind the scenes to accept amnesty, but that would indicate that Abhisit and Suthep aren't controlled by the "Amaat" as everyone suggests.

I don't see how giving everyone amnesty can just make everything go away. The issues are still there. Nothing will really change, especially if amnesty means that Thaksin can just go back and continue what he was doing before. Protests will continue against Thaksin. The red shirts will still want to go after Abhisit. Welcome to Groundhog Day.

The only way I can see things moving forward is if Yingluck and Thaksin (and the rest of the family) get out of politics.

That does NOT mean that Suthep or his peoples council should take over. That would be worse than now, and worse than 2010.

But while Thaksin continues to be involved, there will continue to be protests. Amnesty won't stop that.

I have no issue with you not agreeing with the article. We are both entitled to our opinions of course.

Publicly, Abhisit and Suthep may have been against the amnesty under any conditions, privately, neither you nor I are privy to their thoughts and desires. So I guess we will have to let that point slide.

Things can move forward if YL and TS get out of politics. Personally, I don't think they will. TS is a proud man and that will be the day that he lets someone like Suthep force him out. If he (TS) get's out of politics, it will be at a time of his own choosing.

Another way for things to move forward is for Suthep to stop the protests. By doing so, he can, inter alia,

- ensure safety for his supporters

- take away the moral high ground for UDD supporters to march to Bkk, thereby reducing the risk of a bloodbath

- let Bkk business and tourist arrivals return to normal

- let the courts do what they may with PT. In the event of a judicial coup and possible violence, he will have a clean conscience that he's not an instigator in the inevitable deaths

Suthep's current actions have no more bite. He is not able to galvanise any more support that he already has. Instead, he is endangering the lives of many innocents. If he is truly a great man and a great leader, he will see that he needs to sacrifice his own desires for the greater good of society. Since no anti-TS poster sees TS as great or good, don't expect the same from him.

I have one question about the Amnesty bill would it have even been proposed if Thaksin in no way was connected with it. I think not. It has a lot of good points and depth to it but it would never have come up if Thaksin was not included in the Amnesty.

As I recall relatives of some of the ones killed in the Temple on the last few days proposed one with out Thaksin, Abhist or Suthep in it and were told no.

"Suthep's current actions have no more bite."

Not entirely sure about that. For no bite they sure are getting a big reaction.

Now if you had said the number of protestors I would have to agree with you. But the reality is they are backed up by a very large portion of the population and the Government as well as the red shirts know that.

That is what they fear.

I believe if they were to have an election now the Democrats would be in power. Might be a minority one but they would be the one's in the P M office.

I how ever believe that with out reforms first it would just turn into the same thing as there would be even a deeper divide in the Nation.

In my opinion the election that the PTP want now will solve no problems. Nor would an all out open one.

I repeat the government must be reformed before we can have unity.

Each and every day they get dumber and dumber. Now they are saying.

Redshirts warn of 'government-in-exile' in the north or Isaan, going into 'combat mode'

They then go on to say

The government must not be defeated. This is an order from the people,'' Natthawut said

If it is an order from the people why not set up their government in exile in the South why not set it up in Yala they are the people also. Or Pattaya. Lots of places if they are the people of the government they can set it up in. No need to be isolated.

Between you and me and the gate post they sound more like a rebel army.

Do they all use the same speech writers that the Shinawatra's use?

What reasons? The checks and balances worked, the Senate rejected the bill. End of.

Or it would have been if that fat jerk and his backers hadn't hijacked the whole thing in order to protect the status quo and make sure that the "right" people are in charge for certain future events.

Stuff all to do with corruption or reform.

They worked ONLY because the protestors were out condemning the bill.. if they hadn't been would the "checks and balances " have worked? Considering the Phua Thai government and its lackeys (house speaker etc) slammed it through.

Do you honestly think that Thailand DOESN'T need political reform?

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l didn't say I was against reform did I? I would welcome it, especially judicial reform, but after elections.

My point was that reform or corruption are the last things on the minds of the people using suthep.

Can you give us a list of the names of the People using Suthep?

Thaksin Shinawatra is the one using the Government.

Your turn.

I thought not.

Thought I would throw that in now as I already know your answer.

The Elite the Hi So the Amarat. Same answer as all the other conspiracy believers.

No names just mysterious conspirators.

If you do manage to come up with their names please provide proof. Not your typical conspiracy answer .No names.

I agree, but the current situation won't allow that to happen. It's clear that all Suthep and his street mob wants is to topple the government so they, amongst other things, can be in charge of such "reforms". They refuse any negotiations.

It seems pretty clear that the real agenda of the PDRC has nothing to do with reforms.

How do you know what the real agenda of the PDRC is? Has it been published somewhere or you part of their secret agenda meetings?

Well you have to admit he got the topple the government part right.That is not a secret.

I would be interested in hearing his answer to your excellent question.

A violence confrontation seem to be a high possibility. W,ith the number of the dem's pdrc/pcad dwindling and the number of RS/UDD people increasing and their feelings of bitterness and haplessness mutiplied the only means the dem's pdrc/pcad has is the deployment of its rapid response popcorn spraying brigade.

The violence incident yesterday at Raj'prason was a warning to RS/UDD - don't come, or it is what you will get. However, the RS/UDD responded - we will sure come.

Will the courts allowed the caretaker government to crack down protests that had turned violence?

Are you saying the attack was AGAINST the Red Shirts?

That is the most disgusting spin I've seen in a long while.

Yes, unless proved otherwise. IMO, I still believe that "The violence incident yesterday at Raj'prason was a warning to RS/UDD - don't come, or it is what you will get. However, the RS/UDD responded - we will sure come. Suthep had challenged the RS/UDD with violence - popcorn vendors.

SOE should be updated to deal with the escalating violence. However, the military should completely be out of the loop and remain in their barracks. It is imperative that they prove that they are not a party to the violence.

Shooter.jpg GreenBeret.jpg

Riiiiiight. And if they do come, they're not going to get bombed at on the daily basis. It's amusing that it's the PRDC who are victims of these cowardly attacks but someone actually can spin it in such a way that it becomes a 'warning' for the political enemies of the PRDC.

I think what is being over looked here is as icommunity said..

"W,ith the number of the dem's pdrc/pcad dwindling and the number of RS/UDD people increasing and their feelings of bitterness and haplessness mutiplied.

The key to what he is saying is

"number of the dem's pdrc/pcad dwindling"

Yes as the number dwindle the red shirts grow in courage. Good thing for the red shirts the Anti Government have to go to work for a living. They do not get paid for standing up for an honest government unlike some who receive money to oppose them in a violent way because that is what they do for a living."

They are cowards and had to wait for the anti government to get down to a size where they with the tacit blessing of BIB under direct command of the government approve of it.

I think only an intellectual giant like icommunity would have spotted that cowardice in them.

Threats my ass.

They are already being violent. It is in their nature.

Now I will go read the article.

Condemed the attacks... on Face-f***ing-book??? A Prime Minister? You're not even qualified to be prime poo! You know what... why don't you just get the hell out of wherever you are? Join your brother in the Middle East, whatever. One kid has died, another one is brain-dead. And all you could do is go on FB. Apart from some snide or sarcastic remarks, I have refrained from outrightly condemning you all this while, but it seems with the latest rounds of actions from you, particularly this one, you've done so yourself. Brilliantly. You're nickname shouldn't be 'crab'. It should end instead with a 'P'.

I know YL has no time to read this forum, so if any of her supporters here can pass the message along, that would be swell.

Beg to differ she has all the time in the world to read it. She is not doing much else. The occasional prewriten speech by some one other than her self which she has not even taken the time to look over.

I highly doubt she even knows how to use Facebook probably has a committee to do it for her.

I admire her, she has branded these killers as terrorists.

Unlike Suthep who glorifies his killers as "his popcorn vendors".

Yes and she brands her self as some one capable of running a government.

Two wrongs do not make a rite.

Now, nominating Thailand’s embattled (caretaker) prime minister for a Nobel Prize of her own was the highlight of a speech made this afternoon by a Puea Thai Party election candidate and the deputy minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives.

Who says the Thai education has some thing wrong with it. Geniuses all. Not

"... A good first step would be to throw out all current politicians and replace them with people who represent and respect the people, not only themselves"

A very good encapsulation of the anti-democrat perspective. It is also true to the unelectable PAD-Dem agenda seeking to eliminate Electoral Democracy that produces these dastardly Politicians and prevents their goal of minority governance.

Agreement or otherwise, clearly establishes one's bonafides with respect to Democracy.

That has nothing to do with being anti-democrat. It has something to do with the fact that most politicians in Thailand became politicians to serve their own needs and fill their pockets, not to serve the people. These politicians would have been banned from being elected in most "civilised" countries, and although politicians in other parts of the world don't stand up to too much scrutiny either, most of those in Thailand have shown a stunning disregard for the well-being of the nation and its citizens.

While I don't think Suthep's ideas would work, I have no problem understanding the frustrations of his followers. The only way out of this is to develop the country in a way that increases the awareness of the people and their possibilities to make their own choices. That is happening already, although slowly, and the slow speed will continue as long as Thai politicians continue to throw money and resources out of the window, and as long as the education system isn't reformed. It's an interesting paradox that many of those protesting in Bangkok under Suthep's leadership are children of farmers in the provinces, children who managed to get an education, a well paid job in Bangkok and have become a part of the Bangkok middle class.

With a better education system, and better infrastructure nationwide, particularly in Isan, this effect will spread to provincial cities as well, increasing the standard of living for all, and most importantly: give people real choice and not just the option of receiving cash handouts from whoever is in charge of the country for the time being.

While I don't think Suthep's ideas would work,

Have you another idea that will help to solve the problem today or let it work it's self out over the next 20 30 years.

There will be a big problem setting up an intern government that is non political and bent only on fairly running the government while at the same time reforming it. But I for one believe Thailand has the people to do the job.

There of course would have to be a time limit for them to do the job and then call an election. One of the things and most important along with reforming the election process would be reforming the education process.

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The headline references a "Poll failure"....What "poll failure"...States a thing as if it is fact...More accurately would be to reference it as "an attempted poll failure" at the present time by you-know-who.

The PTP/RS/UDD and the electoral majority whose votes the Elites are trying to both nullify with their coup-mongering on the streets of BKK, and now to obstruct by not completing the election and tabulating the results, are up against many elements of that Oligarchy, if you will.

The Elitist rooted elements posing as independent entities, be they this EC or their user-friendly judiciary, are arrayed against the electoral majority.

So for the PTP to threaten to take the EC to court is like asking one group of Opposition sympathizers to rule on another one.

Good luck with that.

If one thinks this is disrespectful of lily-white Independent Agencies and non-politicized courts, one isn't aware of the history of these things which have led the Voters to charge them as noted above.

Finish the blankety-blank election and count the ballots for heavens sake........Refusal by one political entity or another to avoid this by lofty sounding rationale trying not to sound political, doesn't fly...Everyone knows the game and the players....

With the exception of agenized beholden individuals, who desperately want to believe the non-politicization as noted, and try straight-facedly to convince others of it.

The electoral majority and electables, aren't buying it for one minute. They see it as nothing else but an electoral minority trying to muscle its' way into unelected governance, no different than 2006.

For crying out loud when are people going to learn. Thailand is a divided nation and no election under the present circumstances is going to bring it together.

The education system being what it is I can understand the red shirts believing that. How ever any one with a real education knows it will just continue if not intensify the situation. Reform is needed and not by a self serving clan. All levels of society must be let in on it.

Yes some people do make it difficult they ask a specific question requiring a location and neglect to mention where they are.

My reply was for Chiang Mai.

From the OP

I would like to know if you guys know some place, IN Chiang Mai,

Your rite I had forgot that when I checked back on Darkside.

Yes some people do make it difficult they ask a specific question requiring a location and neglect to mention where they are.

My reply was for Chiang Mai.

Try Asia books at the airport Mall. I believe they are on the second floor. Ask at information.

If they don't have them they will order them for you. I doubt they will have them I was in there yesterday and they have reduced the size of their store. Not a big choice.

Wouldn't it be easier for Witthaya Kaewparadai to grab them and hand them over to CMPO? The grenades thrown at police came from Sutheps side. Instead of moaning try working together to bring this violence to an end.

Some moan and others out and out lie.

I side with the moaners they have a legal leg to stand on.

The rest have to lie to get a case.

I was here last year during the smoggy season. I did not have a problem. But I do have problem breathing wet particles or droplets of water for some reason they seem to go straight into my body and I react. I am not hypersensitive and i have seen some people that are diagnosed as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and they can not be around perfumes. It's something about this water that makes me react. I ask again where can one get the water tested?

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I have no information but would a mask work if all that bothers you is the moisture carried chemicals. Not exactly sure how long you would have to wear them. Would it be OK shortly after the water sprinkling system is shut off.

Actually I believe the permanent solution is to change the water source.

As my helpful "friend" Naam has pointed out that since I like the place maybe I can pay for the sprinklers to be put on the public water grid. That is an elegant solution and probably cheaper than the 15000 baht complete water testing from CMU. (Hopefully. I don't know. Perhaps the "owner" is even willing to go "halfsies.") I will try to find out tomorrow when I talk with my broker. I want her to suggest this solution to the "owner." (Again finesse over balls.) But me offering to put forth my own money should help mend our communication breakdown and start us talking again. (I hope.) Thx for your suggestion.

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I agree with you but you had earlier indicated that the communication between you and the owner was not good. Excellent idea even if it was good communications to get the Broker to introduce the idea.

I did not realize that water testing was that expensive here. Wouldn't matter what it came up with any how as you still would have the problem. Check into it and see what the cost would be probably a lot cheaper and if necessary have it done at night.

Not suggesting any thing illegal here just it is cooler to work at night.

In the mean time would a mask not help to alleviate the problem some what?

I was here last year during the smoggy season. I did not have a problem. But I do have problem breathing wet particles or droplets of water for some reason they seem to go straight into my body and I react. I am not hypersensitive and i have seen some people that are diagnosed as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and they can not be around perfumes. It's something about this water that makes me react. I ask again where can one get the water tested?

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I have no information but would a mask work if all that bothers you is the moisture carried chemicals. Not exactly sure how long you would have to wear them. Would it be OK shortly after the water sprinkling system is shut off.

Chiang Mai is not the place for you if you don't want to breath in pollutants + the smog soon to descend upon us.

It's these things that make Chiang Mai paradise.

I have to agree with uptheos Chiang Mai will soon have plenty of smog plus the normal pollution in the city if you enter it. For most of us the normal pollution is not that bad all by it's self but it is soon to be aided by farmers and forest fires as well as people burning garbage.

Much as I love Chiang Mai there is no defense for it against some one as hyper sensitive as you are. It is a shame that your body betrays your mind so to speak but you sadly have no recourse in much of northern Thailand.

Looks like some of the impartial Senior members of the NACC don't worry too much about being photographed!. Talk on the wires is of their Senior corruption advised enjoying a few nights out with her impartial friends.

All do very tastefully and without altering their work on bringing the Gov down.

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What are you going on about?

He doesn't have a clue. He is new 5days and 114 posts.

I don't think the NACC is completely free of taking sides, maybe there's even some revenge to the current government involved here.

Here a longread about the NACC http://www.thebigchilli.com/1/post/2014/01/fighting-corruption-in-thailand.html

One of the remarks is this:

We have about 1,200 people in our organization but we have actually 1,800 positions. We cannot fill them all right now because our budget has been cut by 60 percent this year, says Dr Sirilaksana. At this point she says the NACC needs a different way of funding.

We are independent in every way but the budget still comes from the government and the Parliament, so if we have a hostile Parliament, our budget is in jeopardy.

Not easy to stay non-biased under these working conditions ... as they see it ...

A good read and at least there is something happening.

She mentions public officials being removed from office on several occasions...however, there is not too much mention of actual convictions and the punishment offenders receive....but of course there are few people living off shore now awaiting the Statutes of Limitations to expire.

The ones removed from office are probably those that wanted to expose their whole dirty stinking dealings like the young woman about a year or so ago who started to tell the truth and became the subject of a probe. Shinawatra way to silence, bulldoze and remove any honest opinion against them. I hope her case is within the courts within the next few months. The sooner more of them are removed from total control over Thailand the better.

No the not very "young woman" claimed first to a senate committee that there was wholsale corruption through government ministries of the rice pledging scheme but later qualified her remarks that what she had really said was there was the potential for wholsale corruption.

In other words a smear, spin, or outright lie.

"In other words a smear, spin, or outright lie."

Or a smear, spin, or outright lie to cover up reality.

Okay, lets say you are right, and this investigation started a year ago. That still does not explain why the investigation of Mark, begun five years ago, is ongoing. Looking at the judicial system in general, we see red shirts in jail for years for petty offences, while the ring leaders of the airport occupation go free, and murder suspects like Suthep are able to delay court appearances because they are busy trying to overthrow the government. Truthfully, do yo actually believe that justice is neutral in this country?

Have to agree with you.

When a government can level trumped up charges at it's opposition to cover up their own corruption and crimes it most assuredly is not neutral. I believe that a lot of the red shirts who were let out on bail had the bail paid by the Democratic government. The same as they had to pay the way home for the red shirts from the 2010 failed coup.

Funny how the Democrats care more for the red shirts than the red shirts do. When they were following his wishes Thaksin paid them. When they were jailed Thaksin had never heard of them.