CMHomeboy78

Welcome to Thailand: the land where nothing works, nobody knows anything and nobody cares!

Disgusting how these "buddhists" don't care about people with a terminal disease, but do care about their silly little business...

It was a Buddhist Abbot who founded what (I think) was the first hospice for HIV/AIDS at a Wat near Suphan Buri. It was his compassion and care that helped overcome a lot of the stigmas associated with the disease. I know it's easy to bag religion, but it was Thai Buddhists who were the first to actually help while the state stood idly watching.

Good response to a clueless post.

Where did the term "Not in my neighborhood" originate? Not in Thailand, that's for sure.

They don't have access to the internet in prison ....

How many TV members have done time in a Thai slammer... and what have their experiences been like?

That would be an excellent topic. Anyone?

Give Stardust a search.

Thanks for that link to the Udon Thani Forum - very interesting.

There must be a lot of Thai prison stories out there that would be a welcome change from the banality or downright idiocy of so much of the usual fare.

Because after the first couple of posts in a thread, the thread always seem to change to a backbiting between posters rather than staying on the post subject.

It's got better of late, but I do agree. I can't understand why anyone would want to be on the internet all day bashing the hell out of someone else they don't know and have never met.

Should be an opportunity to improve each others quality of life, rather than the usual . . . .

I've been posting Lanna T'ai history topics on the Chiang Mai Forum for several years.

It's for my own satisfaction in sharing information about a subject that has been an abiding interest for a long time now.

There are some members who respond with intelligent replies, but not too many. The preoccupation of most seems to be food topics and where to get the goods and services that they enjoyed in their home countries.

Those topics can be quite useful at times, even for the old-timers who went native years ago.

They don't have access to the internet in prison ....

How many TV members have done time in a Thai slammer... and what have their experiences been like?

That would be an excellent topic. Anyone?

Politicians, polices and military are no different. Corruption is everywhere in Thailand. It's a matter of who's in power.

Quite true... and it would seem that the people in power now are taking some steps in the right direction.

Was there no mention in Grandjean's account of the mystical properties of Sak Yant?

From what he writes it sounds like tattooing was done for vanity and the ability to get a wife - and perhaps some prime poon-tang before marriage, and maybe afterwards a little on the side.

It's a well known fact that soldiers were often tattooed with Sak Yant to ward off bullets. It would be interesting to see how many farangs among the "true believers" would go before a firing squad to test the efficacy of their newly acquired bulletproof Sak Yants.

Good point... I was going to comment on that, but didn't want my post to ramble on too long.

Grandjean's sole purpose in coming to Chiang Mai was the mass conversion of the entire population of Lanna T'ai to Christianity. His mission was a conspicuous failure; as subsequent attempts down to the present day have been. Buddhism is too deeply ingrained here.

Any relationship between tattooing and mysticism he would have regarded as "heathenish practices" and dismissed without further investigation. He only had eyes to see the superficial aspect of it.

Ignorance and arrogance combined with an often nasty animus toward Buddhism have doomed missionary efforts from the beginning.

As far as the protective properties of Sak Yant are concerned, I'm not a believer myself, but I do believe - as NorthernJohn pointed out - in the placebo effect. To me, that is proof positive that mind has the power to influence matter. Albeit in ways that we don't understand, and may ultimately be beyond our comprehension.

Anyway, lighten up. This is Thailand... a pretty good place to be, especially this time of year.

Tattooing in Chiang Mai was first commented on - to the best of my knowledge - by M. Grandjean, the French Catholic missionary, who visited the city during the first three months of 1844.

His observations are interesting and worth quoting verbatim:

"There are ordinarily distinguished two kinds of Laocians [Kohn Muang] - one of whom are called Thaung Dam, that is, Black-bellies, and the other who are called Thaung Khao, that is, White-bellies. They are thus named because the men of the race of Black-bellies, when they arrive at the age of fourteen or sixteen years, are accustomed to have drawn upon their bodies different figures of men, flowers, elephants, tigers, serpents, and other animals. This operation they perform by making, by means of many needles joined together, a number of punctures upon the epidermus; they then apply a black ink, which brings out all the designs traced upon the skin; they quietly bathe themselves afterwards, and the impression is ineffaceable. The tattooing is not executed without pain; for they are obliged to bind the patient, who generally continues sick for fifteen days, and sometimes even dies. However, as the young Laocians cannot obtain wives if they lack this kind of beauty, there is not one amongst them who does not voluntarily submit to this painful operation. The White-bellies on the contrary, are contented with their natural graces."

Chiang Mai girls didn't escape Grandjean's notice either:

"As regards the women, they are more active, more industrious, and more intelligent than the men. They have an undoubted empire over their husbands and can drive them away when they are not content with them."

Plus ca change...

Did she report it to the police?

If so, what was the response?

Mention has been made of flooding in Nong Hoi.

No discussion of the area would be complete without noting that it is located on a floodplain and consequently prone to what is euphemistically known as the "F-word" among real estate agents and those who are trying to rent or sell property here.

Previous threads on this topic have debated the causes of the floods and what what might be done to prevent them.

Two camps have arisen. Those who [rightly] point out the obvious - that the water comes from the Ping River overflowing its banks... and those deluded souls who maintain that the water welling up from the drains is the source of the problem.

Nobody who has a long experience of Nong Hoi could doubt that the Ping River is where the water comes from. Although heavy rainfall and full drains add to it, they are not the primary cause.

During periods of high water, just before the river breaches its banks, there is an eerie silence and a collective anxiety that is almost palpable. Suddenly all hell breaks loose - the water surges across the CM-Lamphun Road and uses Thanon Ratutit as a conduit to inundate the Sanam Golf and the residential areas nearby. The flood waters come on like a tidal bore in successive swells terrifying the basically superstitious old Kohn Muang in our community who see it as some malevolent act of the spirits. Whatever you wish to believe about the origin, the effect is devastating. We had a full metre of putrid water on our ground floor some years ago.

The drainage system is not the cause of the problem. The river is. A two metre high floodwall from Kawila Barracks to near Saphan Mengrai would end or alleviate the bad situation we face here.

The drains may contribute to flooding in other parts of the city, but Nong Hoi flooded long before there was a drainage system in place - other than shallow ditches covered by old boards in the market area. The housing development of Siriwattana to the south is also blamed for blocking run-off. That may be so to a certain extent; but catastrophic floods occured when Siriwattana was a ricefield.

The Ping River causes the flooding in Nong Hoi, and when you see it coming you'd better head for the hills - or your upper floor as we do.

My apology. Yep, I reread your post and I want to say I am truly sorry. Enjoy the heat there as we are freezing our butt here.

I didn't blame Thailand for anything. Thailand or any other parts of the world is just not for me to make a home. I am fine travelling for a few years, take my family on adventure but USA is my home. I have a home here, a comfortable income, a community etc. What's your problem? Yes, I probably will be back in 15 years and my Thai friends will accept me wholeheartedly because we have mutual love and respect.

You seem to have misunderstood my post. No offense or criticism was intended.

I have the greatest admiration for travellers who take an interest in, and try to learn about the places they visit.

Thanks to the members who understood this.

Apology accepted... and your courtesy is appreciated.

I also didn't think homeboys response was a negative one, he was saying it's great to hear a story where someone came had fun, loved the experience, made friends, has great memories and will come back int he future to visit this wonderful country.

We have been wintering here for 14 years, love everything about Thailand, we now really only come to chiang mai as we love the place so much, I come on these boards to find out all sorts of information and there are members that are really helpful and give great advise. But also there are many members that seem to moan about everything to do with Thailand, and I just wonder why they just don't bleep off. I get where homeboy is coming from, it's a very valid point.....

Thanks Caitlin, that's exactly what I meant, but the fact that the OP didn't understand it is no big deal.

You have a wonderful attitude and I'm sure your friends here appreciate it.

With he cost of petrol being what it is, you would think that theft - even by forcible means - would be more common in Chiang Mai.

None of my family, friends, or acquaintances have ever mentioned it happening to them... but then, they are mostly people who park their cars and motorbikes in secure places at night.

I do have a personal experience from years ago before I was married. I had a girlfriend who lived in a hawng pahk on the 3rd floor near Tha Phae Gate in the old town. I would often stay the night and in the morning come down to find the tank of my Yamaha Enduro almost empty. Soon one of the older women selling food nearby told me it was being siphoned off by a young cop who lived in the building.

So there you have it... "police problems" in Chiang Mai are nothing new.

Daret House is about as "chic" as I need during cool season. Last I heard it was 200 baht with private bath. During hot season, I would spring for air con.

... and the food is pretty good too! Large portions for the price, varied menu of both Thai and Western dishes (although the Western dishes lack 'something.' Not 'bad,' Just that their Thai foods are really good in comparison. I think the Khow Soi Gai there is some of the very best in Chiang Mai!

The rooms are basic, and not something to write home about, but really... how much time do you actually spend in your room when on a vacation? They are clean and comfortable, inexpensive, and no bugs. Who could ask for more?

That sounds like a good honest summing up.

It could be added that it has been a landmark on the traveller's scene here for a long time.

Family owned and operated since it opened in 1961, and at the present location since 1985.

Chiang Mai kawng taa.

ONV,

You totally mid understood HM's post....

HM was directing his remarks towards complainers about Thailand and Thais...

Are you going to issue an apology?

I am looking forward to my upcoming six-month USA stay in the great NW...

CB

Thanks for that supportive post.

I'm sure that it was just a lack of reading comprehension on the OP's part.

If he wants to apologize that's fine, I'll accept it graciously... if not, no problem. I'm an American myself and I know how we can be sometimes.

Kicked upstairs.

Haha

Briefly translated as " don't know what he's talking about. What's a Payanak?"

God knows what that might be in Mandarin.

Long (?)

No - 'long' is a dragon. A phayanak is a nak = a naga = snake. As pointed out already, there is no 'phayanak' language, but most northerners speak Kham Mueang, the 'Language of the Principalities' or Northern Thai, as well as Central Thai universally taught in schools.

Regarding Nagas...

You're no doubt familar with Sumet Jumsai, prominent architect, writer, and young protege of Buckminster Fuller in the early '70s.

His book, Naga: Cultural Origins in Siam and the West Pacific [Oxford 1988. Reprint Chalermnit 1997] is a study of the prehistoric Naga mythology of water symbolism and how it relates to the Hindu-Buddhist cosmological models for art, architecture, and town planning that were introduced to Southeast Asia in historical times.

As someone who follows your work with considerable interest, I think this book - if you don't know about it already - might be relevant to some of your projects.

Best wishes for continued success.

It's much easier for those of us married to locals. My wife knows, far better than me, the right level of neighbourliness.

Agreed.

I often ask myself... What would I do without my wife?

She's not the laughing girl that I married 32 years ago, but in many ways I love her even more.

oo muh hoo liang. Phayanak cuh ayang ?

Sounds like phonetic Kahm Muang... hang on Sally, I'll get my wife to translate...

My roo reu-ung? that makes two of us.

Maybe Thai Visa Chiang Mai is entering a strange new incarnation.

He mentioned Mandarin [!]

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Phayanak Language"; but maybe you know something I don't.

Phaya Nak is a Naga, a mythical creature believed to live in the Mekong River. The Naga fireballs are said to come from Phaya Nak every year when he is in the Mekong near Vientiene.

Do you mean Kahm Muang, the Lanna T'ai language? It is still spoken all over Northern Thailand and is very close to the language of the Lao people.

If it is Kahm Muang you are referring to, then Chiang Mai has many native speakers.

Welcome to the forum.

Hi CMH,

I guess you're right, even you mentioned about the fireball... I belief you know Phayanak more than me...! Yes, basically is more of a native speaker.. do you know where can I get contact of these people, or whom or where can I reach them to better understand on this language..

Can you please help or advise.. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Peter

Native speakers of Kahm Muang are mostly in the neighbourhoods of Chiang Mai.

The condos, gated communities, ban setees, and posh flats have some, but not many.

In the latter part of the 19th century Lanna T'ai - and Chiang Mai which was its capital - lost its sovereignty to the central government in Bangkok. Since then Pa-sah Glahng, or Central Thai, which was the language of the new government, has been used as the medium of instruction in schools and as the language of the bureaucracy.

To learn Kahm Muang, my advice to you is to "go native", at least for a while, and have as much contact and social intercourse as you can with the locals.

Chiang Mai is becoming a city of many languages, but it is still possible to find native speakers of Kahm Muang... you just have to look for them.

Good luck in your quest.

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Phayanak Language"; but maybe you know something I don't.

Phaya Nak is a Naga, a mythical creature believed to live in the Mekong River. The Naga fireballs are said to come from Phaya Nak every year when he is in the Mekong near Vientiene.

Do you mean Kahm Muang, the Lanna T'ai language? It is still spoken all over Northern Thailand and is very close to the language of the Lao people.

If it is Kahm Muang you are referring to, then Chiang Mai has many native speakers.

Welcome to the forum.

What's needed is more ethical people to fill positions of responsibility in Thailand and in other countries all over the world.

Another institute or committee isn't going to make any difference at all.

The Malaysia Hotel? I used to stay there too.

As a bookseller, you may have read Richard Neville's book about Charles Sobhraj. If not, by all means do.

Incidentally, if you can get some used copies, please send me a PM. I'll buy several. The only one I have is falling apart. It is the cheap Pan [1980] reprint of the original Jonathan Cape [1979] edition.

I assume you have likely also read Serpentine a story of Sobraj? Great read.

I was hanging out in Istanbul in the Pudding shop at the same time that Sobraj was on the hunt for victims....I also traveled across Iran which needless to say wasn't exactly an easy trip in those days.

http://www.amazon.com/Serpentine-Thomas-Thompson/dp/0786707496/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415852660&sr=8-2&keywords=serpentine+book

Thanks for the reminder. I have heard of the book but never read it. I will make a point of doing so.

As you probably know, Charles Sobhraj is still alive doing time in Katmandu, so his incredible story isn't over yet.

Good to hear from someone who made the trip... yes, I remember the Pudding Shop. If you were heading East it was a good place to meet travellers who were coming back with current information. I'll never forget the hippie girls all tricked out like Persian houris... what a time!