CMHomeboy78

I recently did it for the first time after 37 years of living here [most of the year] on just about every kind of Thai visa available, at one time or another.

The one I preferred was the Non-immigrant one-year multiple entry "O" visa. In the past it was sometimes easy to get, and sometimes difficult. They are always changing the requirements and moving the goalposts.

To answer your questions as best I can:

#1... Yes, we did it at the airport location. Arrive early - 6AM or before.

#2... Not sure. Don't wait too long. Apply at least two weeks before your old visa expires. I presume you know that a Non-immigrant visa is required to apply for a one year marriage visa. Being here on a Tourist visa doesn't cut it anymore.

#3... Family photo is now required...yim ngahm. As is the 400k bank balance.

#4... Yes, basically that's it. Do yourself a favor and ask in advance what documents you will need, and show up prepared, if possible.

#5... I may be wrong, but I don't think you can choose single or multiple entry. If you want to leave the country, you get a single re-entry permit - 1000 baht or whatever it is - or a multiple re-entry for 3800 baht.

One other thing that I might mention is the frequency of home visits by immigration cops nowadays. Many farangs are getting them. It has only happened to me once and that was a long time ago - back in the early '80s. Two of them came, young guys, somewhat dour but civil. They filled out a form... information that had already been submitted. It was an obvious sham, but there was no direct or indirect attempt to shake me down. They left after about 20 minutes. It never happened to me again.

A few days ago my wife got a phone call from immigration asking her to come in and confirm the fact that I was living at the address given on the application form. She went in with a friend and neighbor who has known us since we were married. All went well and - presumably - I won't be getting a visit. So it goes.

Hope this helps... good luck.

I might have misunderstood you but I believe the 400,000 baht in the bank must have been in there for two months prior to the application and 3 months for an extension. Also the letter from the bank must match to the baht your bankbook figure.

As is common some people have been able to get away with out that but most of them have to have it. Have seen several cases on Thai Visa where they had to go to the bank and get them matching.

Yes, that's right.

A ton of documents are required - one of then being a bank statement [letter] issued on the day previous to the application verifying that the money is in the bank.

I recently did it for the first time after 37 years of living here [most of the year] on just about every kind of Thai visa available, at one time or another.

The one I preferred was the Non-immigrant one-year multiple entry "O" visa. In the past it was sometimes easy to get, and sometimes difficult. They are always changing the requirements and moving the goalposts.

To answer your questions as best I can:

#1... Yes, we did it at the airport location. Arrive early - 6AM or before.

#2... Not sure. Don't wait too long. Apply at least two weeks before your old visa expires. I presume you know that a Non-immigrant visa is required to apply for a one year marriage visa. Being here on a Tourist visa doesn't cut it anymore.

#3... Family photo is now required...yim ngahm. As is the 400k bank balance.

#4... Yes, basically that's it. Do yourself a favor and ask in advance what documents you will need, and show up prepared, if possible.

#5... I may be wrong, but I don't think you can choose single or multiple entry. If you want to leave the country, you get a single re-entry permit - 1000 baht or whatever it is - or a multiple re-entry for 3800 baht.

One other thing that I might mention is the frequency of home visits by immigration cops nowadays. Many farangs are getting them. It has only happened to me once and that was a long time ago - back in the early '80s. Two of them came, young guys, somewhat dour but civil. They filled out a form... information that had already been submitted. It was an obvious sham, but there was no direct or indirect attempt to shake me down. They left after about 20 minutes. It never happened to me again.

A few days ago my wife got a phone call from immigration asking her to come in and confirm the fact that I was living at the address given on the application form. She went in with a friend and neighbor who has known us since we were married. All went well and - presumably - I won't be getting a visit. So it goes.

Hope this helps... good luck.

I believe this is simply the weekly market (talat nat) in Chiang Dao and not some special "hilltribe" market. But because many, if not a a majority of villages surrounding the town are minority highland villages, many of the buyers, and some local sellers, are hill folks. A similar smaller weekly market exists north of Thaton across from Laota's coffee shop. And similar markets exist in other towns such as Khun Yuam where too the majority in the surrounding region are also hill folks. I remember my first visit to the north decades ago and taking the bus up to Thaton and it stopped in the center of Chiang Dao at the fresh market for a break. It was my first encounter with highland folks and I was, in one vernacular, gobsmacked.

Your observations about hilltribe markets are interesting and similar to what I saw when travelling up to Chiang Dao and Fang in the late 1970s.

A book that you may be familiar with is W.Somerset Maugham's A Gentleman in the Parlour, about his overland trip in the early 1920s from the Burmese Shan States to the railhead in Chiang Mai. It provides a detailed description of the market in Keng Tung. At that time, possibly the biggest in the Shan States, Lanna T'ai, and the mountainous border regions of China.

It gives a good idea of how these "Hilltribe" markets have developed on their own without any promotion from TAT or other government agencies that always seem to turn local events into cheesy tourist attractions.

I would recommend epoxy glue for any kind of small jobs or craft work.

Very strong, it adheres to almost anything that is clean and dry.

Available at the bigger hardware stores, HomePro, Global House, etc. It comes in two small tubes, one is the resin, and one is the catalyst.

It always works very well for me.

A lot of indignation has been expressed in this thread, and those throwing the stones are perhaps without sin. That wouldn't include me, however.

I grew up in the Hudson Highlands north of New York City during the 1950s and '60s when hunting small game and deer was almost a rite of passage for boys and young men. Just as it had been for the young Algonquin Indians and the sons of the Dutch and English colonists who had been there previously.

What had been a necessity to provide food in former times became a blood sport that we participated in with alacrity. At the age of sixteen I lost interest in hunting as well as fishing and never missed them because other interests took their place.

What motivated Dr.Palmer I don't know, maybe he had a childhood similar to mine and never outgrew it - a case of arrested development - or maybe he's just a <deleted>. Either way, Cecil's dead and nothing is going to bring him back.

For a fascinating look at the protohistory of Isaan go to the Ban Chiang archaeological site and museum just east of Udon Thani on Rt.22.

Isaan history in a regional context can be studied in D.G.E.Hall's 'A History of South-East Asia.' First published in 1955, this book is a classic that has never been surpassed. It has gone through many editions. My copy is from St. Martin's Press, 1981, but there are more recent ones.

Back issues [available online] of the Journal of the Siam Society would likely have much information that would be of interest to you.

Good luck.

For a comprehensive look at Thai history in a regional context, the classic is: A History of South-East Asia, by D.G.E.Hall. First published in 1955, it has gone through many editions and has never been out of print, nor has it ever been surpassed as a general history of Thailand and the neighbouring countries.

The English presence has been well documented by M.L.Manich Jumsai in his book: History of Anglo-Thai Relations, [Chalermnit 2000].

Oxford in Asia; Silkworm; and White Lotus have reprinted many primary sources that may be of interest to you.

There is no shortage of good books on Thai history.

You are thinking of West Virginia...

Alabama men drive their pickups around with their favorite hunting dog in the front seat and wife and children in the back of the truck...chew tobacco and drink beer...work between hunting seasons...and camo is the clothing of choice...

Yep. Shine is the breakfast of choice for our good ole hillbillies living in the Appalachian sticks, not Bama. Not sure anyone is cruising their family in the back of pickups these days, but my God I enjoyed riding in the bed of pickups when I was a kid in the 70s. Lol at the stereotypes though.

+1

I grew up in semi-rural New York State and we often rode in the back of pickups.

Then things changed and it became illegal.

Then things changed again and I moved to Thailand.

I hope I don't see any more changes.

How else can you take all 16 of the girlfriend's family to the market?

people_in_the_back_of_a_pick_up.jpg

No problem for me... they all have their own means of transportation.

Now my wife's family... that's something else.

What do you expect, it's "Redneck" territory, the land of marrying cousins, where you can find Bubba and Billy-Bob sitting on the old rickety wooden porch with a corn-cob pipe and a jug of moonshine.

You are thinking of West Virginia...

Alabama men drive their pickups around with their favorite hunting dog in the front seat and wife and children in the back of the truck...chew tobacco and drink beer...work between hunting seasons...and camo is the clothing of choice...

Yep. Shine is the breakfast of choice for our good ole hillbillies living in the Appalachian sticks, not Bama. Not sure anyone is cruising their family in the back of pickups these days, but my God I enjoyed riding in the bed of pickups when I was a kid in the 70s. Lol at the stereotypes though.

+1

I grew up in semi-rural New York State and we often rode in the back of pickups.

Then things changed and it became illegal.

Then things changed again and I moved to Thailand.

I hope I don't see any more changes.

Probably the place is Sop Gai or Sop Kai as I see it usually written.

As the name already indicates it is where the small stream Mae Kai joins the Mae Taeng river.

You reach it from Chiang Mai by taking the 107 to Mae Taeng and go left onto the 3162 road that follows the river. You pass the elephant camp, rafting etc. in Muang Khuet (again spelling?) where there is a bridge over the Mae Taeng.

Continue on the road to the next bridge, this is Sop Kai.

There is a small resort there, from Muang Khuet the road is not sealed, not sure how the condition is in the rainy season.

GPS 19.234807, 98.783777

Joop

That says it all as far as directions are concerned.

And yes, there are variations in the spelling; Ban Soph Guy looks right to me phonetically, so I use it.

Wiang Haeng, also on the Mae Taeng, can be reached by the road that turns west off 107 just north of Chiang Dao.

It's a beautiful area and largely unspoiled.

The filing came after Clinton said in an Iowa radio interview that during her stint as secretary of state in the Obama administration, she had never sent or received any emails on her private server that had information clearly marked classified.

So, how do the Clintons define "clearly marked?' Watch out for these weasels.

How true.

In all their years of high crimes and misdemeanors these slimebags have never had anything proven against them... talk about gaming the system.

"If I had not asked for my emails all to be made public, none of this would have been in the public arena," she said in the interview, recorded last Friday.

No, if you had not breached security protocols and broken the law then none of this would have been in the public arena.

There is apparently no limit to her arrogance.

She's toast... maybe, I hope so anyway.

I've bamboo rafted the Mae Taeng from a Karien village a little below Wiang Haeng to Ban Sohp Guy. It looks very much like some rivers in the Hudson Highlands where I fished as a kid growing up there.

The - mostly hilltribe - people along the Mae Taeng catch fairly good sized fish in nets. It seems to be relatively undiscovered as yet by sport fishermen

A flyrod improvised from bamboo, some floating line, if you can find it, and an assortment of flys would be all you'd need to give it a try. Avoid the whitewater and fish the pools. There are some good bungalows in Ban Sohp Guy.

Good Luck.

Another point that could be made is that the American military presence in Thailand during the Vietnam War created a communist insurgency in the north and northeast that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people.

Except that it would fly in the face of the common knowledge as to the roots of the brief northeastern Thailand communist insurgency.

Your intelligent posts are usually worth reading; so I was somewhat surprised at your contention that the Communist Insurgency in Thailand during the Vietnam War was "...brief...", and that it was confined to the Northeast.

That mistaken notion should be challenged forthrightly. The facts of the matter are contrary to your belief.

During the late 1970s native Thai Communists effectively controlled areas in the North and Northeast including almost all of the Lao and Cambodian border regions, acting in conjunction with the Pathet Lao and Khmer Rouge.

Personal experience in the North at that time reminds me that the insurgents held towns as close to Chiang Mai as Samoeng. The road from Chiang Rai to Thoen had police and/or army checkpoints every ten klics or so. Beyond Thoen was a no-go area where armed conflict was a regular occurrence.

To what extent the American military presence had provoked and encouraged the resistance movement is debatable; as is the question as to what extent the Americans protected Thailand from a victory by Thai, Lao, and Khmer Communists.

Those questions can be argued - what can't be argued is the well-documented existence of the Communist Insurgency that the Thai Army, BPP, local police and village volunteer forces fought for almost twenty years from the mid-1960s to the mid-1980s.

Minimizing or denying that long fight is an insult to those who were killed or wounded to keep Thailand from becoming another despicable "Peoples Republic" ruled by old Marxist knuckleheads.

Inform yourself better about that eventful period in Thai history, and disabuse yourself of the idea that Thailand did little or nothing during the Indochina wars.

"Thais are taught about the glories of their history. We dream about being great again in the future."

When exactly were they great in the past ?

A History of South-East Asia by D.G.E.Hall [st Martin's Press], puts Thai history in context and highlights the periods of influence and prosperity in the region.

This will point the way to further study for the edification of those interested in the subject.

The Franks were originally Germanic tribes that conquered Gaul and most of western Europe. The term Frank was used in the Middle Ages when referring to western Europeans which makes the term farang pretty accurate.

That's the way I've always understood it.

The Franks were called 'farangi' by the Persians who transmitted the word to Siam and elsewhere prior to the arrival of the Portuguese at the Ayudhya court of King Rama T'ibodhi II in 1511.

I believe that to be the consensus among historians; although there will always be dissenting views.

The Royal Chronicles of Ayutthaya [The Siam Society 2000], edited by the distinguished historian David Wyatt, might have references to the role played by Persians in Siam before the coming of Europeans.

By the mid-17th century they were in positions of power at court, also dominating foreign trade as Shah Bandars of the seaports. During the reign of King Narai they were gradually replaced by European adventurers - notably Constintine Phaulcon and Siamese White among many others. This ultimately led to the Revolution of 1688 and the massacre of Europeans that followed it.

In the village I'm called:

Uncle - Luang

Uncle Farang - Luang Farang

Grandad Farang - Daa/Bpuu Farang

Older brother Farang - Pee Farang

Older brother - Pee

Older brother who is a disrobed monk - Pee Naan Farang <Lanna>

It's a descriptor: it sets me apart from the non-Europeans in the village, of which I'm the only one.

Is it racist or derogatory? Not in my wildest dreams. If anything, it make me feel more a part of the village. When I hear _________ Farang, they only talkin' about one guy, and I know who that is!

Then it's time to prick the ears up and start listening. Not everyone knows my Thai language level. If they did, they wouldn't say some of the stuff they do, Lol. Mostly good, or somewhat ignorant and misinformed. Seldom bad.

Spot on, bro.

That has been my experience exactly... although I don't live in a village, it is the same in the Wat Muang Guy/Sanam Golf community where I've spent most of my adult life.

I have very little experience of Japan, but I am interested in it.

My understanding of the word 'gaijin' is that it is basically negative, unlike 'farang'.

Is that true?

That is not my understanding of the word, based on my experience of living in Japan close to fifteen years altogether, of having had and still having many Japanese friends and being now a fluent speaker and reader of Japanese.

But that does not stop, as others have pointed out here, troublemakers from taking offence.

Thanks for that.

Do you have any idea of the origin of the word 'gaijin'?

Gaijin is slang for gaikokujin. Basically (and with a bit of latitude,) 'gaikoku' translates roughly at 'foreign.' 'Jin' translates just as roughly as 'person.' Put them together and you get 'foreign person.' The Japanese are nothing if not polite, so in polite and FORMAL settings will always use 'gaikokujin' to refer to a person not Japanese. But in polite but INFORMAL settings the use of the nickname 'gaijin' is absolutely correct... except to the trouble makers who insist on formality in informal settings. It's as if you were being served tea in a china mug instead of a porcelain teacup in a family restaurant and complain about it. The Japanese won't say anything, just bring you your tea in a different cup, inwardly shaking their heads at someone being so foolish.

When speaking to others, the Japanese will ALWAYS add the honorific title (-san, -samma, or -chan) to their name, As in Smith-san or Jones-samma. ALWAYS. Even when speaking to children. They are Hanna-chan or Yoko-chan. Often in locations where someone needed to attract my attention in a crowd, but didn't know my name, they would call 'Gaijin-san' or even 'Gaijin-samma,' the most exalted honorific in the language. It's a rare foreigner indeed who could object to such a compliment, but in fact there are a few. I don't feel any different about the word 'farang.' I AM a foreigner. Being called one certainly doesn't bother me.

"...trouble makers who insist on formality in informal settings."

Nice line. Thanks.

I have very little experience of Japan, but I am interested in it.

My understanding of the word 'gaijin' is that it is basically negative, unlike 'farang'.

Is that true?

That is not my understanding of the word, based on my experience of living in Japan close to fifteen years altogether, of having had and still having many Japanese friends and being now a fluent speaker and reader of Japanese.

But that does not stop, as others have pointed out here, troublemakers from taking offence.

Thanks for that.

Do you have any idea of the origin of the word 'gaijin'?

Yes, 'gai' can be translated different ways, but the basic idea is 'outside'. 'Jin' means 'person'. 'Gaijin' is a shortened form of 'gaikokujin', in which 'koku' means 'country'. Some people take it into their heads that the shortened form is somehow disrespectful. Japanese who are aware that some foreigners think this are sometimes careful to use 'gaikokujin' instead of 'gaijin' around foreigners, but I have never heard the word 'gaijin' used in a way that gave me the sense disrespect was intended, and more than one Japanese person has told me, when asked, that to them it does not connote disrespect.

Thanks for that clarification.

I always thought the word was derogatory. It seems to be closer to 'farang' than I thought it was.

When I arrived in LOS, I too was dissatisfied with the use of the word farang. Now, it has no effect upon me. From my reading, farang alludes to foreigners NOT of Asian heritage eg excludes Chinese, Koran & Japanese.

Yes, I am a foreigner.

In my natives, Japanese are called Japs; English are called Poms; New Zealanders are called Kiwis. Who cares - not me.

That sounds typical... it is usually the newcomers who take offence at the word. Live among Thais for a while and you learn that they all use it with no offence meant.

I think it says something about the type of people you're living among if they consider it polite to refer to others as farangs, Japs, Poms and Kiwis. At best these terms are slang and certainly not the the mark of educated, polite people. What about slant-eyes, gooks, spooks, and the "n" word? Use those words often enough and soon they'll be considered OK, too, I guess.

You are totally wrong and misinformed about the type of people who use the word 'farang' .

You are bringing your western prejudices with you.

When I arrived in LOS, I too was dissatisfied with the use of the word farang. Now, it has no effect upon me. From my reading, farang alludes to foreigners NOT of Asian heritage eg excludes Chinese, Koran & Japanese.

Yes, I am a foreigner.

In my natives, Japanese are called Japs; English are called Poms; New Zealanders are called Kiwis. Who cares - not me.

That sounds typical... it is usually the newcomers who take offence at the word. Live among Thais for a while and you learn that they all use it with no offence meant.

I think it says something about the type of people you're living among if they consider it polite to refer to others as farangs, Japs, Poms and Kiwis. At best these terms are slang and certainly not the the mark of educated, polite people. What about slant-eyes, gooks, spooks, and the "n" word? Use those words often enough and soon they'll be considered OK, too, I guess.

The word 'farang' is not slang. It isn't now and never has been. It is a legitimate word in the Thai lexicon.

Sawasdee Khrup, Esteemed Fellow Farangs, Khon Thai, and citizens of other countries,

For me, the debate about whether "Farang" is inherently pejorative is not particularly interesting for the following reasons:

0. it's too often used in ThaiVisa forums by trolls to divert threads into ad hominem mosh-pits

1. almost any word, or phrase, can be used as an insult, many words can be used as a racial epithet. Ever had somebody use "you !" as a slur ?

2. given a tonal language where minute shifts of intonation can radically alter the meaning of a word, distinguishing homophones is very difficult if you are not a native speaker, or one of the very rare foreigners here who really master Thai. Example: "Khun" with rising tone is one of the Krom (the formal system of Royal Rank), definitely not the same as the everyday "Khun" you and I hear.

3. given the modal emphasis on "apparent formal politeness" in public social discourse in Thai culture, it may be even more difficult to recognize pejorative sub-text .... unless the speaker is using the distinct very insulting first-person, second-person pronouns ... and, if they are using those with you, you will know you are really being insulted !

4. meanings of words change as languages evolve (by "evolve" I don't necessarily mean "improve"). For example, back in the days of the Kings of the Central Thai Colonial Empire (Ayutthaya) the word that is now the second-person singular very insulting pronoun in Thai (no, I am not going to use it here) was the common term for the lowest of the social classes.

5. I beg to differ with the OP here:

a. if you are going to adopt the "posture" of scholarship, to imply you are familiar with primary sources, imho you need to at least mention what your sources are.

b. general terms for Romans (Rum), far-northern Europeans (Rus), and western Europeans (Franks) were known in the Arab world even before the crusades. See the travel-journals of Ibn Khaldun (1332 – 1406) for example; by the way, it's a great read. Some of you may know the movie "13th. Warrior" is a fictional portrayal of Ibn Khaldun's visit to the Land of the Rus.

c. the major Persian presence here came a century after the time of the Portugese involvement in the early 16th. century C.E. ref.: Ayutthaya: Venice of the East by Derick Garnier and Narisa Chakrabongse ... of course, that does not exclude the possibility of earlier contact and language transmission.

5. there are a variety of scholarly opinions on the origins of "Farang," and many disagreements. while the major consensus may be that transmission was by Arab-world traders based on experience of European invaders ("Franks") during the crusades, there are many other hypotheses.

I will continue to use the word "Farang" to mean "honored guest"

cheers, ~o:37;

p.s. it is interesting to speculate if the definitely pejorative modern Thai second-person singular pronoun is related to what, in the times of the great central Thai colonial empire of Ayuthya was the term for the lowest social-economic class. ref.: "The Ayuthya Chronicles"

Thanks for your reply. Interesting as usual.

That the Persians were in Siam before the Portuguese arrived in 1511 is generally accepted, I'm sure you will agree.

Being and being called a 'farang' in Thailand has never bothered me in the least. Nor did being and being called a 'gaijin' in Japan.

I have very little experience of Japan, but I am interested in it.

My understanding of the word 'gaijin' is that it is basically negative, unlike 'farang'.

Is that true?

That is not my understanding of the word, based on my experience of living in Japan close to fifteen years altogether, of having had and still having many Japanese friends and being now a fluent speaker and reader of Japanese.

But that does not stop, as others have pointed out here, troublemakers from taking offence.

Thanks for that.

Do you have any idea of the origin of the word 'gaijin'?

The term racist has been so erringly applied in the last half decade, (with an agenda), that people who use it as a offensive weapon have absolutely NO problem in applying it to words such as farang......

And yes - they are not champions, they are just the opposite = troublemakers ....

Looking for attention. I wonder if they would answer to hae you?

Clearly the word has undergone some semantic amelioration and I've NEVER heard the word "farang" used alone as a pejorative.

I have noticed, however, that when I'm among low-class Thais, they call my a farang and it's almost a term of endearment, definitely has no negative connotation. However, it does make me feel a little bit objectified, as if I'm just another white boy (which I am, to them). However, to some of the Hi-So Thais I have worked with, they never use the word "farang", but refer to me exclusively as a "foreigner".

Contrary to what many want not all Thais speak English.

thanks CMHomeboy78 for clarifying the statement. I have never taken it as an insult and use the word myself. Mind you I am well aware of the fact that the situation and tone of voice can be considered offensive.

Yes of course, tone of voice can make the word offensive... but that's true of any word, isn't it?

Glad you don't consider it an insult when used as it usually is.

When I arrived in LOS, I too was dissatisfied with the use of the word farang. Now, it has no effect upon me. From my reading, farang alludes to foreigners NOT of Asian heritage eg excludes Chinese, Koran & Japanese.

Yes, I am a foreigner.

In my natives, Japanese are called Japs; English are called Poms; New Zealanders are called Kiwis. Who cares - not me.

That sounds typical... it is usually the newcomers who take offence at the word. Live among Thais for a while and you learn that they all use it with no offence meant.