xthAi76s

Hilarious. Let's see what happens.

In the interim, people should just not goto these places. But, hell, half the members here probably live in Pattaya which is one of the worst ripoff and most disgusting places on the planet. So, I would imagine for many of them Phuket is a paradise!

particularly in light of renewed threats to the tourist industry, the biggest engine of growth in Thailand.

Wrong. Tourism comprises around 6-7% of GDP. Manufacturing is significantly higher, hence the huge knock caused by the flood.

I'd estimate tourism closer to 20%. That 6-7% is rather well-known to be quite low.

Quite right Thailand man. I was just making the point that a baht millionaire isn't wealthy by our standards, more making reference to the comment that there were a lot of millionaire monks in Chiang Mai.

As for a 10 million baht house, that is a LOT of money for a monk, or probably most people in Thailand, and even for many of the retired foreigners living in Thailand.

I think his conduct may be called, in religious terms (though Buddhism isn't strictly a religion), perversion of the doctrine.

I see. Yes, I agree. This perversion of religion/doctrine is pervasive in almost every country as I'm aware. And it doesn't merely exist; it's often endemic. (Just for contrast, for example, the Catholic Church both historically and presently. Or the mega wealthy Christian Churches in the US. You want to find the richest organization in many US communities? Look for the church...)

It's a human condition, greed, and, alas, despite the many masses holding up these human beings as being above normal human weaknesses and possessing some other-worldly powers of wisdom and truth, these religious leaders are often no better than petty criminals, but, of course, one would need to look past the facade.

I hate religion. Back up. I hate the practice (poor practice) of it.

Sadly for me, I left one ultra religious 1st world country for an arguably even more religious 3rd world country. It has not been an improvement in that regard.

Been registered with the British embassy's "Locate" service for five years now. So far received no notification following recent bombings. Not unexpected however, I have long given up getting any sense out of a bunch of seat polishing pointy heads!

Come on Mr Clarke, any comments?

I think those programs are primarily aimed at being able to locate you for the purposes of collecting tax or for paying other debts to the state. I have avoided the US Embassy registration program. I figure, if I need help, I know how to tell the taxi driver to get me the US Embassy fast.

"There are many, many monks in Chiang Mai who are multi-millionaires".

A baht millionaire isn't wealthy, only a little over $30,000, but that's a LOT more than a monk should have.

Nikster, Buddhism isn't generally regarded as a religion, more as a philosophy on life. A religion requires a God, and the Buddha wasn't, nor claimed to be, a God. It's a nice philosophy though. I guess the monk just vowed to try harder to be a good person tomorrow??

Judging by the look on the dog's face, I think he was involved.

"When the first smart man met the first fool, the first religion was born." I like that line, and it still astounds me that highly intelligent and educated people fall for the religion line.

However, it looks like he was working with 10 times a million Baht. Spending 10,000,000 Baht on an accommodation in Thailand is a pretty big deal.

The monk is a famous preacher with a lot of followers. He did so well with donations that he was able to construct a golden teak wood accommodation for himself with a budget of 10 million baht.

10,000,000 Thai baht = 324,250 U.S. dollars

1,000,000 Thai baht = 32,425 U.S. dollars

This is a wonderfully written piece, although I am not sure I can agree with the author's final paragraph where he states "It would be absurd to predict a repeat of the 1930's".

In fact, the parallels are numerous, and I think it is already occurring.

While I recognize this thread doesn't belong in General, I hope the mods can find a place to move it to, rather than simply closing it. So many TV members comment on democracy and what that ideal is supposed to mean in Thailand that I think it is especially relevant to point out how tenebrous this concept is in light of the political conflict that is occurring.

Yes, I thought it was well written, and I wanted to put it someplace but didn't think I was allowed to post in News. Also the News section "Thailand News" seems to rely overwhelmingly on articles from the Nation and TAN. I might be wrong, though. The problem, in my honest opinion, is that The Nation's articles (and TAN's perhaps to a slightly lesser degree) are often very poorly written and lacking real content/argument ...

Sorry about that. Was not my intention. Thank you for the correction.

From Koreaherald

Recently in Bangkok, I found myself wandering through the strange but distinctive arena for one of Asia’s latest conflicts: CentralWorld, supposedly the biggest shopping mall in Southeast Asia.

Protesters supporting Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand’s populist ex-prime minister, had set up base camp in the mall’s plaza in May 2010. During a widely covered clash with security forces, they had set the building on fire, destroying much of it.

Read more: http://www.koreaherald.com/opinion/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20120216001062

The Thai Ministry for Tourism has guaranteed that tourism will be unaffected by the warnings.

Thai National Security has guaranteed that it is rather impossible for Thailand to be a target for wrongdoing and indeed not possible for Thailand to be host to any dangerous activity that a paying visitor/tourist should concern him/herself with as Thailand is a peaceloving™ country friendly with all people and nations.

The Thai Tourism Board has demanded that the countries responsible lift the warnings as it could affect tourism.

The Thai hotels board will increase prices of rooms and Thai airways will increase the price of tickets to 'make up' for the drop in arriving tourists.

Suvarnabhumi will organize scams in the King Power Duty Free and with arrival transportation to 'make up' for the drop in tourism revenue.

In exactly one week, the Thai Tourism Board and other agencies will advertise in local media that tourism numbers are up 345% from this time last month.

Random Thais (being quite proud and nationalist) will organize marches on all warning issuing Western embassies, but will ignore those issued by any Asian embassies.

EDIT:

** Actually, looking at the 'system', I'm not sure whether or not it's pure genius.

wasn't he already disrobed?

Check the first reply. Someone beat you to it. Otherwise, you'd have had a hit!

The concept of graft (not to mention the lack of the plain ability to think) is so engrained in the psyche of Thai politicians that they can't even speak outside the language of corruption. This is a perfect example of why we as Americans have no interest in what the Thai government says, thinks or does, and we never will. They are simply irrelevant to the rest of the world and not to be taken seriously. Unfortunately their idiocy is going to cost lives as they bungle their way through the recent terrorist issues despite being warned by those who know better.

You do not speak for "Americans," many of us have a keen interest in what the Thai government "say, thinks, or does," It is paramount to my multinational corporation which has entered into many joint ventures in energy and oil with Thai State owned entities. Back home in the good-ol People's Republic of America the level of graft, extortion and corruption far exceeds Thailand....US politicians simply package it and sanitize it much better.....however, corruption is corruption regardless is it wrapping paper!!

I'm interested in this argument. Can you give me an example of how corruption is much worse in America? This is a very popular pronouncement, but I've rarely (if ever) seen anyone lay out the argument in detail.

i am trying to find out why do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on THAIvisa forum. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

thanks.

I'm not sure people do put it down as 'it's their culture'

As I have been saying, those dysfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self-serving, erratic and downright stupid things are uniquely human (not Thai, not English, not Irish or American) characteristics. They happen everywhere.

I would never intellectualise behaviour and attribute it to culture, so I don't know who these apologists are.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour. It happens here. It happens everywhere.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove.

I've been trying to say the same thing. Who are these "apologists" that he keeps bringing up? On the contrary, I've seen Thai-bashers and haters trying to blame certain specific events/individuals on the Thai culture. If he had started with that angle, it might make a little more sense.

I don't like naming and shaming, and, in fact, it may be against forum rules, but there are indeed some Thai apologist on TV. With tens of thousands of members, who would expect there not to be?

Culture is such a tricky thing.

To have a very shallow answer to the OP, I think there could be any number of psychological factors motivating 'apologists' who excuse or explain away certain behaviors as attributable to culture. One reason could be that such an 'apologist' doesn't truly understand what 'culture' actually is or has some idea, but, culture being so nebulous, does not know how to distinguish culture from acts that are perhaps not part of culture perse but influenced by culture to acts that are purely selfish, poor, etc and have nothing to do with culture...

Anyway, some of the other answers are likely more helpful.

I think much of what we witness probably falls into the category of things influenced by culture but perhaps things which don't infact live up to the cultural ideals of the particular culture (Thai culture, in this case).

Also, I think of culture as being nebulous enough that you can think of it as a continuum of sorts. It's a line on which any particular trait, if you will, can fall within a certain degree of expression and still be considered something either 1) part of the cultural ideal or at least something 2) (strongly) influenced by the culture, so it's hard to pinpoint.

I am no Thai apologist, but there are cultures of people all over the world who overwhelmingly don't live up to their ideals.

The question for me is since I do believe that, as imperfect human beings, most of us will not live up to cultural ideals, "how do certain cultural ideals or things generally accepted as culture influence acts in society, if there is any link at all".

But, you know, since it's hard as hell to understand, it's just easier to either 1) bash away, or 2) just claim culture and tell people they must respect and comply.

After being here on and off for almost 10 years, I'm rather sure Thais just feel it's too hot to think so much about this complicated stuff.

The problem with saying things like "....places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible." is that it begs the question what are you doing here then?! Yes, it really is terrible here, that's why I live here and spend all of my free time posting on a forum about Thailand.

It amazes me the amount of Thai bashers on this forum, why? For me this country is a breath of fresh air from the Nanny states of Europe and US, no it's not perfect, nowhere is, but there's a hell of alot going for it here.

Without wanting to get drawn into a general red/ yellow shirt, ferang/ thai, corruption debate, surely making such transactions transparent is the start of change for the better, regardless of the motivation behind it...

I'm well off and having fun. How about you?

Oh, should I have only good opinions of the places I live? Is that your suggestion?

I'm very glad that you are happy here. I have complaints, and I have the internet. It's not so fast, but it's fast enough for me to post my gripes here. When I see something to bash, I just bash it all to h3ll. That's what make ME happy. So, we both seem to be happy.

Anyway, if you could, can you respond to the important, on topic content of my post? I would like to know what you think. I thought it was pretty logical.

Waiting to hear the arguments how this is really "a good thing". Who is going to defend this policy? Come on Calgaryll, Lansford, and gang!

Thank you for asking Reasonable man and Soi Sauce^.

I made some inquiries, with the following points being made, in no particular order:

• This is nothing new. It has been going on for many years. To try and stop it would be well-nigh impossible.
  
• Best to make it transparent.
  
• Many schools ask parents for money. In an example personally experienced during my years of teaching English some time ago, was teaching at a local school where enrollment requests exeeded availablity. I recall seeing parents huddled with the Director, and it didn't take a genius to figure out what was happening.
  
• In some cases, schools ask money from parents, in some cases parents urge money onto the school.
  
• Questions need to be asked, where does this money go. To confront this would obviously be of concern to the Opposition, from whence this money flow mainly originates......frankly, that is where the money is.
  
• Increased transparency and scrutiny is urged by the Minister for a practice that cannot be prevented. In other words, "follow the money".
  
• Trying to prevent this practice would piss off a lot of parents, who are focussed on one particular school for their little Johnie or Sally. If it was prevented, they would find another way.
  
• As opposed to engaging in self-righteous indignation about an established practice, sentiments could better be focussed on transparency of this issue.
  
• But if it serves the Opposition to demonize the Education Minister by characterizing this practice a certain way, is par-for-the-course.
  
• In particular, they have the MO of "laundering" their agenda through others. Many times creations of their own, but ostensibly separate. At the very least an entity of other Oppositional elements. I bet none of you have heard of "Building Thailand Club" as referenced in this article. I haven't either.
  
• Have watched this Minister in action. Let me tell you, he relates to the people in a way Abhi. could only dream of doing. An impressive guy.
  

I thought this response was intelligent BUT for the fact that you excused the system. It's a defeatist attitude, and its widespread use amongst the Thais is a central issue preventing them from improving this wretched country.

An optimistic, more productive attitude/argument would suggest, perhaps,

1. prosecuting people who accept bribes to discourage it in the school system, -- result, in theory, would force the money elsewhere ...

2. trying hard to allow students entry on some measurement of merit -- resulting in parents/students who understand that working harder and being better will give them better chances of entry

3. if there are STILL not enough good schools for Sally and/or Johnie (which I think are actually Somchai and Nanapong), they the parents in Thai society will then be forced to take it up with their leaders to provide a better school system with decent schools that their kids can attend

(some countries have plenty of decent or better than decent schools for the population, and you don't get there with such a lazy system as is used here in Thailand)

4. then, there can be real taxes legalized that allow payers into the system to 'demand' a certain product for their money paid into the system -- result, in theory, is that people (tax payers/commoners) become more publicly involved in policy affecting their kids' educations.

and so on and so on. The problem with saying things like "it's a part of the society, so it's better to just make it more transparent" is .... wait for it ... places like Thailand! That is precisely why this place is so terrible. There do not seem to be enough people willing to take a stand for what many (esp the educated here) know is the right thing to do by the society. Some things should be made more transparent; others should be altered altogether.

Hope what I typed is understandable. I typed it quickly.

[snip]

There is no proof they were not foreign tourists, and the OP alludes they were.

The OP says they targetted tourists walking alone, do thia tourists walk alone?

I am not sure where it alludes they were all foreign. Can you point this out to me?

Again, I am very confused as to what appears to be your belief that Thai tourists don't walk alone but foreign tourists do.

I have no idea if they were all foreign tourists but given what I have read it would appear they were not selectively targeting foreign tourists and there really would be little reason to do such. There are plenty of Thai tourists, who carry somewhat large money amounts on this person, and they simply would be looking for easy marks who such as this women, who would not be able to be identified as being from China based on this report, walking alone. But lets suppose she had a sign on that specified her country of origin ... do you believe they would have left her alone if she was Thai-Chinese?

I think you underestimate how easy it actually is to spot a foreigner vs local even if of the same or similar ethnicity. Give me five minutes around people, listening to them speak and so forth, and I can tell you which are foreign and which are Thai, and I suspect criminals who get paid, in part, to be able to do this well, do it quite well.

Also, it's always rather easy to spot a Thai Chinese. Just look for the person with an ego larger than life, very carefully blocking any sun from his or face, and who has a demeanor which might suggest he or she has grown up in a society where he or she is worshiped for his or her pearl white skin.

Works for me every time, and I know overseas Chinese from all over the world. Various parts of Europe, HK, Singapore, US, etc.

As for Thais walking alone while being tourists, its commonly known among people who live in Thailand (esp foreigners who are often better able to think about these things) that Thais (like many other Asians, but perhaps to a stronger degree) don't really like doing many things alone. Thais are a very strong collectivist people, and I would find it (as most Thais would) uncommon and surprising to see many Thai tourists travelling anywhere alone while on vacation. It is just not likely to happen much.

^^ Waiting for a one- or perhaps two-liner (from 'someone') to discredit your logic and who sees no fault in the human side of equation, but, rather, will attempt to explain everything away due to bad engineering or something. Of course, engineering that was created by machines (because it couldn't be the people because they are not at fault) and the machines were created by ... (again, not the people) and so on.

In Thailand, prostitution was mentioned during [the past]. There was taxation of prostitutes and brothels called "tax for the road." When slavery was abolished, some females slaves were turned over to men who started brothels. Prostitution was legalized in 1934. Expressed was a concern about prostitutes who worked in gangs with men as their supervisors. The situation was prone to violence , and the threat if spreading venereal disease was great. Because of these dangers, prostitutes were allowed to be registered so that they could receive regular medical care.

I think Chuwit is a subject matter expert and Thailand should consider hiring him as an expert. Also, I think, since this is Thailand, Mr. Chuwit has a pretty good chance of being prime minister. From massage parlor king to prime minister. If Ying Luck can win with promises of raising minimum wage and giving every student in Thailand a tablet computer (Plus being Thaskins younger sister), then Chuwit has a chance too. I wonder what kind of promises he will make.

Free monthly handj0bs from very young women with any business investment of BT 100,000 or more.

Now many people will not like to hear this, but I am going to say it anyway. For the most part, these girls do have choices. The bottom line is that they can have jobs in restaurants and hotels earning a decent living and enough to get by. The salary for your average unskilled worker is anywhere from $100-300USD per month. Now when you compare that to a western salary it may sound like very little. The reality is that many people in Thailand live happily on these low salaries, and some of them even send half of that salary to help their family. The average bar girl can make more in 1 day than most people do in 1 month, so it is not surprising that some find it tempting. Another thing to consider is that in rural Thai society, this is not looked at in the same way you might view it. A girl going back to her village telling stories of sleeping with middle aged men for large sums of money, does not get ostracized and ridiculed. In contrast she might be treated like a hero, a pioneer.

... she might be treated like a hero, a pioneer.

I'm logging off! This is the funniest sh!t I've seen in some time. LOL

-- Heres to the heros and the pioneers

I think a lot of good meaning posts on this thread, but some not very realistic, prostitution will never be stopped in any country, some have been trying since the dawn of mankind, the countries that have legal prostitution have less problems than the one that have prostitution illegal, without the sex industry Thailands tourist industry would be a fraction of what it is now, Thailand should make prostitution legal but never will, the politicians, police, and others would lose money, so it will never happen, I find it very hard to belive that any Farang in Thailand has not given money to a Thai lady after having sex at some time or situation or other, it does not matter if the lady in a full time prostitute, street cleaner, nurse, shop assistant or what ever, if they have sex and get money that is prostitution. underage people being forced into the sex trade is bad and everthing should done to stop it but I am afraid it will not happen, for many Thai ladies and their familys prostitution is very necessary and anyone that does not think that is not living in the real world.

Agree. Just want to add that you want to add other non-white foreigners, and, mostly importantly, Thais. It's not only us. In fact, you might find that the Thais and other Asians (particularly East Asians) are heavier 'users' than we are.

Blah blah blah .... once again for this guy we see nice rhetoric....

Not supportive of prostitution but if it was stamped out then tell me the plan to employ the thousands of workers currently in the trade.. tell me the plan to support the thousands of families and children that have money sent to them each month.

Tell me the plan to maintain tourist numbers.

Again Im not advocating prostitution is good or right just saying it is so ingrained in Thailand that you just cant wipe it out without expectation that their will be extreme follow on effects.

A moral dilemma question.... girl with elderly mother,sickly father and two young children in North East.. she works in BKK. Sends money home each month such that children are fed clothed and educated, father has medicine and mother has enough money to put meals on the table and make a home.

Girl doesn't particularly like the job but knows she has no alternatives up home and rationalises that doing what she does is the best thing for her family.

Job does have one bright side in that she feels she might be able to meet a nice guy of suitable means whereas back home she has no chance.

So is it wrong waht she is doing ? Lesser of evils???

It reads a bit fairytale and rose colored glasses i know but actually have met some girls who are there for better life for their family and children. Yes there are the hardcore ones and the druggies and the game players but my point is that without some alternative plan for these people who do exist as written what do they do ??

One part of the answer to your earlier points would be for the current pt government (and all future governments) to build and implement some policies whereby a much bigger percentage of all Thai people have the knowledge, skills and capabilities to find better employment, plus the government build and implement policies whereby there is a better geographic spread of work opportunites, therefore making a scenario whereby a much bigger percentage of the population can have a much better quality of life through their own productivity. It could be done, if the government wants it to happen.

Sadly, (for these poor Thais) we all know what group of fairer skinned "Thais" control these things in this country, and we also know they are much less than enthusiastic to give up their stranglehold on the country and its economics. I wouldn't either, if I was one of them. Thailand is pure magic for the dominant class. They wouldn't fair better anywhere else on Earth.

If nobody wants to sell sex, it is a crime to force anyone to do so. But when men or women do want to sell their bodies, they should have that full right without encountering punishment or discrimination. If the client behaves decently, the relationship between the sex buyer and the sex seller must be considered a purely private transaction.

You are right Nicky..... But , that does not change the fact that prostitution is "illegal" in Thailand. Why should it be ok to flaunt one law and not another... surely its also up to an individual if he/she wants to take drugs...

Coulkd you please tell of any single law in Thailand that is upheld ?????

Les Majest

That's THE 'one', yes.

Doubtful Chuwit means ALL prostitution, just that catering to Falang. So it could be possible to stamp out that very small portion of the overall prostitution in Thailand along with several Billions of baht to the poorest of the country. The rich Thai seldom have daughters or sons in prostitution.

.... Unless you consider daughters who choose specific career paths or schools for the express purpose of marrying a rich man who can 'sponsor' their lives ...

I know, ... but, you know? It's much the same thing; it's just fancier looking, and their skins are likely to be much lighter.

Tourism from all countries (especially those like Japan, China, Taiwan) would drop off precipitously.

And, then perhaps we could all witness whether tourism (and esp this draw) was really ONLY 7% of the GDP here ...