xthAi76s

Give all the girls something to do that is more lucrative than the flesh trade. Otherwise, don't be so silly to believe that they will stop.

^^^^ ..plus a touch of Thai anxiety in the need to repair the lawless reputation the North as demonstrated in the handling of the slain Chinese boatmen last year on the Mekong, amplified by the fact that China's tourism to Thailand in the future will be of far greater import than the Farang numbers ever have been.

correct .....asians r getting wealthier and travelling china now has more billionaires than the usa and the uk combined more maseratis and feraris sold in china than the rest of the world combined .....

Where did you get your numbers?

Anyway, yes some Asians are becoming much wealthier.

http://en.wikipedia....ar_billionaires

Thai society is in a downward spiral that is going to destroy the fabric of this country. Take into account the political, the lack of good leadership, economic problems, the drug problems, flooding, the sensless killing, and problems in the education ssystem and prison system, the outlook is not good.

I'm glad other countries are putting out travel warnings. To the traveler, these conditions are not apparent, but to all those who love and live here, the problems are very real.

You could be talking about the troubles in any Western country currently, Thailand is no different in having the same.

Bullshit mate..... Go to 99.9% of cities in Australia ( i cannot speak about other countries ) and you won't be scammed, beaten over the head with club,stabbed, murdered or thrown out of a condo window... never ceases to amaze me the utter crap that comes out of some peoples mouths....

I have lived in Thailand for years and YES the situation with regard to violence is getting worse, but on a positive not many many things have improved also, I do not know that answer to Thailand's issue and I will not pretend to know the fixes but I do know that comparing Thailand to West is totally a moot point!!

BRITAIN, AUSTRALIA TOP U.S.IN VIOLENT CRIME

http://www.wnd.com/2001/03/8340/

... Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

And by the way, Thailand and Australia are not that statistically different when it comes to robberies per capita and Australia far outpaces Thailand with burglaries, rapes and assaults per capita. In fact Australia rates #1 in the world for Burglaries and Assaults.

Once again with these numbers from the internet. Why is it that we often don't seem to understand that these silly statistics are:

1) only as accurate as the systems they use to gather the information and

2) the number of criteria meeting acts reported?

Does ANYONE here who has lived here think that you can count on a 3rd world country (recently industrialized, if you prefer) to report accurate numbers on any national scale -- esp where the statistics reflect poorly on the country? Esp a place like Thailand where -

1) tourism is a huge part of it's development,

2) FDI is responsible for the vast majority of it's 'progress' over the last 5 decades or more,

3) the concept of FACE is central to most things?

And, before you say something like "well, these stats were collected by [insert whatever international agency] (which is a reliable source)", please know that these agencies do not operate with complete freedom within sovereign states and must depend (sometime quite heavily) on local systems, and certainly people to arrive at the statistics.

Police would strictly enforce the laws, including limiting transport vans to 120km/h on highways, Noraboon said.

LMAO!! Made my Saturday evening

It can be cute and it can be funny but it can also be embarrassing. I agree with an earlier post that says that his partner finds it hard to switch between languages after talking to her Thai friends or watching soaps. My partner is the same. It is incumbent upon us to not allow our partners to be ridiculed so we must help them as they must help us.

A major problem for anyone learning the English language is that we spend the majority of the time speaking in metaphors, so not only does someone have to learn the words but they have to learn the metaphors too. When they can understand the metaphors then they are truly fluent in English.

Anyway, the most embarrassing language difference one I came across was an American couple that came to visit me in Scotland, the fella was a US Army Major at the time ( XO ) and his wife was a beautiful self respecting Christian lady. We were sitting in a pub that my family owned at the time and the couple were being treated like royalty, everyone was hanging on their every word. We had driven together from Germany to Scotland and someone asked the lady if the journey was hard. Her reply........

" I was sitting for too long and now I've got a sore fanny "

Cue embarrassed silence................

I've noticed this metaphor/idiomatic problem, and, in my opinion, it is more acute in English speakers from the smaller (than the US) countries. Also, there's a tendency (even in the US) for English speakers to use idiom heavily (and metaphor, as well) as a way to

a.) display their 'intelligence' to the world and

b.) to distinguish themselves from other speakers hailing from other English speaking countries/regions.

The more trouble listeners encounter trying to understand these speakers, the better the speakers feel. It does seem though that speakers from places like UK, OZ, etc (the more quaint English speaking countries) utilize these communication instruments heavily.

While the standards in most state schools have been declining, students from top private and international schools here often win international awards for their excellence in maths and science.

I think the author meant "... (Thai-) Chinese students from top private ..."

There ain't too many real Thais winning any international awards for excellence in anything at all.

We all all Thais from various background and origins.

Farangs, please do not force your racist concept onto us Thais.

HAHA! Yes, I understand.

Read about the discriminatory Thai governments in the 1930s and onward and how Chinese suffered from Thai discrimination. Or, talk to ethnic Chinese families here who feel comfortable to be open with non-Ethnic Chinese Thais and ask them about their experiences. Surely, you don't think the Chinese have not suffered in Thailand, right?

It is a distinction I make because I think it's important for Thais to look into. None of the major problems in education, politics and other topics really affect the 'ruling', elites here who are overwhelmingly (almost entirely) ethnic Chinese (Thais). Not that I think everything about their supreme and total domination and exploitation of this country and it's resources/people is bad, but I do think it would be quite helpful (although most unlikely here) to examine this kind of topic to see if there is something else wrong, perhaps much deeper, in the 'system'.

This nonsense makes it into most every thread.

"..almost every thread.', surely.

And, if I might ask, where is it you hail from?

The English speaking World.

And, what is an example of something you correct that you believe is the result of her being American?

Leaving '...ly' off adverbs, 'This is real nice' for example, instead of 'This is really nice'.

'How are you?', 'I'm good'.

Me: 'You're good? good at what?'

Just quick examples off the top of my head.

hmm ... OK

How Often Do You Correct Your Wife'S/ Gf'S English?

Quite a lot, she's American raised and educated.

This nonsense makes it into most every thread.

And, if I might ask, where is it you hail from?

And, what is an example of something you correct that you believe is the result of her being American?

My wife holds two masters degrees (obtained in English). She is essentially completely fluent in all aspects but, perhaps, idiom/expression (since there are so many and which vary from one English speaking country to another). On occasion, she will correct my (native) English, and, on occasion, I will correct hers (ESL). I try not to do it in public though.

All non-native English speakers carry with them some tendencies to make certain kinds of mistakes, whether grammatical, in pronunciation or some other language category like idiom, and after knowing enough people (especially from Europe) who speak English as a third, fourth or even fifth language, I've developed even more respect and patience for non-native speakers of other languages.

While the standards in most state schools have been declining, students from top private and international schools here often win international awards for their excellence in maths and science.

I think the author meant "... (Thai-) Chinese students from top private ..."

There ain't too many real Thais winning any international awards for excellence in anything at all.

100 families? I'd say it's less than 10 that own the majority of Thailand with everyone else on the bottom getting crumbs. If you look at the big corporate names that own everything (ie. CP) they own large subsidiaries everywhere in Thailand.

Thaksin is not even in the top 10, and he barely makes the top 20.

http://www.forbes.co...es-11_rank.html

Networth in US millions:

Dhanin Chearavanont

7,400

Chaleo Yoovidhya

5,000

Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi

4,800

Chirathivat family

4,300

Krit Ratanarak & family

2,500

Aloke Lohia

2,100

Chamnong Bhirombhakdi

2,000

Vichai Maleenont

1,500

Isara Vongkusolkit & family

1,400

Praneetsilpa Vacharaphol & family

1,050

Thongma Vijitpongpun

1,000

Vanich Chaiyawan

930

Prayudh Mahagitsiri

900

Surang Prempree

790

Anant Asavabhokin

750

Keeree Kanjanapas

625

Prasert Prasarttong-Osoth

620

Somporn Juangroongruangkit

610

Thaksin Shinawatra & family

600

Boonchai Bencharongkul

550

Kraisorn Chansiri

460

Chamroon Chinthammit

440

William E. Heinecke

425

Sunsurn Jurangkool

420

Wit Viriyaprapaikit

380

Worawit Weeraborwornpong

360

Nishita Shah Federbush

340

Pongsak Viddayakorn

310

Prachai Leophairatana

300

Vicha Poolvaraluck

265

Nijaporn Charanachitta

260

Niti Osathanugrah

255

Roongroj Saengsastra

250

Pete Bodharanik

245

Premchai Karnasuta

240

Prateep Tangmatitham

230

Chalerm Yoovidhya

225

Vichai Raksriaksorn

210

Porndee Lee-Issaranukul

200

Virot Thanalongkorn

195

Hardly a Thai on that list. Plenty of Chinese though.

This is the worst kind of greed and evil ... with no concern for the death and destruction that a collapsed building, bridge, etc. can cause. Often, when they find such as this in China the culprits get the death sentence. A few years back the head of China's FDA was caught in corruption and he got a bullet to the head as punishment. Now that's a great deterrent.

And, here, if anyone is ever found guilty, they just pay a bribe (sorry, I mean fine) and continue business (perhaps under a different business name). I can't think of another "recently industrialized" country where there is really no punishment for such egregious actions. 'mai pen rai'

They will never something self-critical, for example, like "I think some of my views about the world are shaped by what I consider to be faulty, insular, xenophobic culture, and I try to pay attention to this when I'm developing opinions about certain things."

The term "they" can apply to many farangs who post on TV.

Can't argue with that.

This is not about governments - everyone knows politicians are lying, thieving scum - its about individuals and 'culture'.

The cruise ship captain is not exactly getting much support...

As I said above, I do not see this rampant lying and "face-saving" thing in the Thai social circles that I associate with. And yes, the cruise ship captain didn't really fit in with the other examples relating to lying politicians. It just sort of popped in my head at that moment.

I thought the same until I started discussing 'sensitive' topics with some of the Thai people in my circle.

Have you discussed any sensitive topics with Thais in your circle? Things like discussion about the merits of certain aspects of Thai society?

Absolutely (discussing sensitive topics). Thais are actually quite candid and can be pretty tough on their own. I've heard some seriously critical comments regarding politicians and such. But usually, these conversations we have are in Thai. If they had to speak in English, they're usually much more docile and apprehensive, afraid of saying things the wrong way.

Interesting... Surely, there will be a wide variety of people/personality types in a population of 65+ million or so. That makes sense. What I often find is the Thais I know who are fluent in English still will often make excuses for any kind of problems in Thai society that might be due to 'faulty' culture. They are not hesitant to blame an individual public figure or the 'political system', but rarely will they say something like "Thai people need to be better educated about the world around them". Many might say something like "The politicians need to do a better job of improving the education system" or something to this effect. They will blame so long as the person or entity being blamed is an entity designed for it -- like in politics. They will never something self-critical, for example, like "I think some of my views about the world are shaped by what I consider to be faulty, insular, xenophobic culture, and I try to pay attention to this when I'm developing opinions about certain things." Likewise, they would never say something like "I think the fact that we have a psuedo caste system here whereby brown people, the real, historial, native Thais (those who comprise the vast majority of the country) are poorly represented in key, power industries and indeed seem to accept a tacit belief that they are somehow inferior to their Chinese leaders). Light conversations... sure, people will point at an establishment and blame it/them, but real stuff, the 'meat and potatoes' -- they will make excuses. Same irrespective of English or Thai being used as the medium.

This is not about governments - everyone knows politicians are lying, thieving scum - its about individuals and 'culture'.

The cruise ship captain is not exactly getting much support...

As I said above, I do not see this rampant lying and "face-saving" thing in the Thai social circles that I associate with. And yes, the cruise ship captain didn't really fit in with the other examples relating to lying politicians. It just sort of popped in my head at that moment.

I thought the same until I started discussing 'sensitive' topics with some of the Thai people in my circle.

Have you discussed any sensitive topics with Thais in your circle? Things like discussion about the merits of certain aspects of Thai society?

I would never invest money in Thailand. I would also never do business with anybody in Thailand.

You do so all at your own risk. It is a lawless place. You are never safe.

Thailand is a place for broke farang to stretch their money. If you had money, why not move to a country that has no corruption problems like Singapore?

Agree and disagree. I do feel that Thailand is more-or-less lawless. Laws on the books but most often not enforced and certainly not enforced consistently.

As for broke farang, there seem to be many here, but the same risk that makes Thailand scary can also make the successful -- very, very successful. There is opportunity in Thailand that does not exist in the same abundance in places like Singapore, USA, Japan, S. Korea etc

The marketing machines have sold Thailand to the world (or, at least to English speaking foreigners) as Place A. But, those of us who get here and settle down often find it very difficult to believe that we are in the right place as most of what we encounter is very different from the the marketing of Place A.

Interesting perspective. I'm sure you know that the "marketing machine," like many popular tourist destinations in the world, prefers that you come, enjoy, spend money, leave. Emphasis on the "leave." Now the fact that some decided to stay, well that's what I would call an "unintended consequence" of the marketing machine.

Well then, they should have a completely different marketing program aimed at expats/retirees.

... "Welcome to Thailand where you are really only valued as a depositor of currency and where you have almost no protections under the law."

something to this effect

I came to the conclusion that I came from a superior culture to the local one, so, I live by those values.

I learned to speak Thai as I saw that it was in my interests to do so.

You come from a superior culture? Wow. I am speechless.

But I am intrigued: What makes you think so?

No problem, very easy.

Which is the better culture? One that values truth over saving face (pride), or, one that values saving face over truth?

Which is the better culture? One that values substance over appearances, or, one that values appearance over substance?

I'm going with the ones that value truth over face and substance over appearance.

Anyway, it's no so much about cultural ideals because most cultural ideals are pretty good, in my opinion.

What's really at issue, I believe, is the percentage of people (and perhaps more importantly, the percentage of people one has encountered) who do or don't actually live up to or anywhere near their stated cultural values.

I think that on appearance, Thailand has this problem pretty badly. The marketing machines have sold Thailand to the world (or, at least to English speaking foreigners) as Place A. But, those of us who get here and settle down often find it very difficult to believe that we are in the right place as most of what we encounter is very different from the the marketing of Place A.

No, sorry, not in Thailand. I've had much trouble even in BKK with my shoe size 11.5 - 12 US.

However, www.shoebuy.com is fantastic, ships quickly and is competitively priced.

Hi,thanks for reply,do i have to pay any customs fee for shoes?Hmm I guess there must be some thai guys with big feet in Thailand,wonder what they do

My experience with Thai customs has been best when I ship from the US via USPS which uses Thai Post in Thailand. Shoebuy.com does have the option to ship via USPS to Thai Post. I ordered a pair of shoes from another retailer (can't remember the name right now) using USPS to Thai Post and did have to pay a customs fee, but it was very, very small -- maybe a few US dollars.

<snip due to quotes limitation>

That just suggests incompatibility. Not inferiority/superiority.

Right, and the reason I do not feel free to state which values are inferior/superior is simply because I am not a scholar, and I've not devoted enough time and energy to the topic to feel comfortable having an affirmative response. However, 'in my heart of hearts', ...

I came to the conclusion that I came from a superior culture to the local one, so, I live by those values.

I learned to speak Thai as I saw that it was in my interests to do so.

You come from a superior culture? Wow. I am speechless.

But I am intrigued: What makes you think so?

I think time and time again foreigners here see the actions of Thai people and instantly brand it as a culture thing. They then use these 'observations' to either defend them or attack them: Pushing into queues, speaking loudly, interrupting conversations, aggression by Thai males, not knocking on doors, 'selling' daughters to the highest bidder..... and so on.

All things to which people say: 'Oh, they have a terrible culture', or, 'If you don't like the culture, go home'

Thing is though, such things often have very little to do with the actual culture and are often isolated cases anyway. Rather it is the ignorant/greedy acts of certain individuals and the observer is unable or unwilling to make the differentiation.

I suspected that KarenBravo has experienced a Thai person pushing in the queue, or something similar, and decided from that that her 'culture' is superior.

And, then you have the 'other side of the coin' where people truly believe things like 1) all cultures are equal and have equal values and 2) all people are created equal and the like. Moral relativism.

For me, I've witnessed a preponderance of personal evidences that suggest to me (not that average Thai people are bad or inferior) but that average Thai people are not likely capable to understand/respect many of the core concepts and values that shape my personality. And, that's fine because this is their country, and I am indeed a guest. However, my best defense against them is to avoid as many as possible.

No, sorry, not in Thailand. I've had much trouble even in BKK with my shoe size 11.5 - 12 US.

However, www.shoebuy.com is fantastic, ships quickly and is competitively priced.

To answer the OP's question(s), I am willing to work as hard as required to carry on successful business operations here in Thailand, so long as this doesn't compromise my own personal ideals/character too negatively.

We are here to exploit opportunity, and that's really it. Well, perhaps enjoy some different foods. I am not in the least interested in Thai culture just as I was not in the least interested in my own culture in the US. We are very high on the individuality index, and the group, tribal, family first stuff simply doesn't suit us at all. We find these prehistoric concepts silly in modern times where we don't need 'protection' granted by these various, nebulous groups.

I do plan to learn Thai language as it makes sense for me to support my professional goals. I do disagree with you, tombkk, however, that one cannot really learn the language without specific effort to learn the culture (if that is what you implied). I plan to do just that, and, having lived in the US (immigrant capital of the world), I have encountered many, many people over time who have learned the language and much less about the culture. Culture and language are often very much intertwined, but one need not make specific effort to learn culture if his/her goal is language fluency. You won't EVER catch me in a temple or going to some other superstitious event, but I can assure you that I will speak as fluently as required for me to communicate effectively here with people connected to my business dealings. Other people, I'm generally not so interested in talking to.

Thai culture and American culture, in particular, don't mix quite so well, so yes, I'm willing to work rather hard (to be accepted enough) to be financially successful, but not any harder.

meh..............

They (USA) actually as of Jan 24th warn you about pretty much anywhere in the world.

The Department of State has issued this Worldwide Caution to update information on the continuing threat of terrorist actions and violence against U.S. citizens and interests throughout the world

http://bangkok.usemb..._wwcaution.html

So called war on terror making anyone feel safer?

Yes, it's tough being #1. Always smaller guys biting at your ankles. Yes, I do feel much safer due to the US war on terror. Thanks for asking.