xthAi76s

Difficult to keep track of all the Lapdogs America has, but good to learn that

US lifts terror alert in Thailand. What would Thailand do without Americans holding Thailand’s hand? Answer: Thailand would be up shit creek without a peddle. So tonight after many nights can go to sleep in bed instead of sitting on front porch with blowgun looking out for terrorist(s) doing belly crawl through the scrub around the place.

Thank you US President Obama and Attorney General Eric H. Holden, Jr. for taking so good care of the citizens of the world. I wonder how the world ever made it this far before you two came along to run the world, into the ground that is.

Huh? I'm trying to understand what you've written, but it's unintelligible to me. Can you clarify it?

Thanks

This fear mongering is all clearly explained in the BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares", see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0

This is well worth watching and demonstrates WHY governments act the way they do. I, for one, refuse to live in fear.

It's not fear mongering if the threat is validated by way of having captured criminals who'd planned attacks.

1. dont withhold payment from a Thai if you are a farang. find another way to solve the dispute. once they have the money there is no other way

2. never use vulgar language or raise your voice with Thai people. but they will happily use it on u

3. if you cant follow Thai ways, dont live here because you will get f-ed up sooner or later. go home brigade eh?

1. Never renege on a business arrangement for payment anywhere -- with any race of people and especially when you are a vulnerable 'outsider' with little protections under the law -- until a new arrangement has been agreed to. Often, this will mean, having paid the full price of the contract, but then subsequently trying to recapture some of the payment (formerly or otherwise).

2. Never use vulgar language or indeed threaten Thai people or any people when dealing with business, money and men. Remember, too, that you may be more vulnerable than others here. (People have been getting killed all over the world, since the beginning of time over money, so this is especially true when dealing with money no matter the sum.)

3. If you cannot assimilate Thai style dispute resolution, and, if you plan to conduct business here in Thailand, (before throwing in the towel and leaving the country) try to appoint someone (often a Thai) who is better suited to the accepted business and interpersonal communication styles here.

4. If you receive a threat from a Thai person or group, decide quickly and carefully if you are willing to risk your safety and/or health of your business(es) in order to level a threat in kind against the locals.

5. Understand and accept that even if you conduct yourself perfectly here in Thailand, a natural cosmic course of the world will still have you cheated and abused during some part of your professional career. Such is life for many, and there is not likely to be anything you can do about it. Some battles (hopefully small ones) you will not win. However, keep your eyes on the larger war to be won.

She's got that Thai Ghost Face thing going.

^^ Thanks for the propaganda. What is a shame is that these things happen. That's all.

Observations are of course pretty worthless if they are merely the reinforcement of a personal perception.

If an objective test were possible I think you'd find that the percentage of crap drivers in Thailand would be about the same as anywhere else.....of course one cannot define this objectively and a test would be pretty difficult to arrange.

Any compilation of roads statistics will have a paragraph that explains the vagaries of compiling let alone comparing roads stats.

But if you look at the roads rather than the drivers you will see trends emerge on a world-wide scale.....nothing to do with being Thai

However for the sake of the average TV member it fits nicely into their condescending and racist views of Thai people to suggest that in some way they are innately possessed of an inability to driver that infers the the expat is innately superior......and that really is crap

This sounds interesting. What are some of those trends, and how do the roads affect the situation?

Is it me or are all the articles on the Drummond site badly written and confusing. English is my first language and I can't make head nor tail of most of the articles written on his website.

I too had trouble reading this one, and English (American) is my first language. Unless the differences are somehow attributable to his country's take on English, it was pretty poor indeed. I had to read many of those sentences several times to figure out what was going on. Alas, I just started to skim through as I couldn't be bothered to try too hard at this late hour.

PM Forced to Speak to Virtually Empty Seminar Room

accompanying photo to the OP article

My isn't that strange, Buchholz helpfully provides the "accompanying photo to the OP article" - Except there isn't one

http://www.tannetwor...?DataID=1052188

And suprise, suprise guess where this photo originated, yes that good old photobucket album, rightie1.

Who is supplying your photo database, Buchholz?

While waiting for Buchholz to respond, let's have another example of Yingluck's shining diplomatic and reasoning skills in action during a public forum:

Days could be spent studying the many layers in her response...

She lost her ENTIRE face on that answer. All that is left of her face are those indescribable teeth. And, as others have put it, her issue has very little to do with lack of English language ability. Her words in Thai are only marginally more intelligible.

time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries ...

corkman was complaining about the cultural Marxism which has undoubtedly done immense damage to communities in the West. One thing that stands out in Thailand is the innate communal character of Thais. Eating in public gatherings together and so on. Outsiders from Western cultural wreckages can only look on with envy. Unfortunately the "progress" to which you allude inevitably involves the destruction of all this. Westerners have already seen the resented fruits of State-sponsored "anti-racism" and the like. As in the West, Thais have a choice between a Thailand for Thais or a "Thailand" for the New World Order. Thai xenophobia is undoubtedly infuriating at times but it is their country and we are not forced to live amongst them. I personally find some Thai attitudes towards foreigners to be disgusting because, whilst I am undoubtedly a 'racist' of sorts, I do not share the extreme Thai levels of fear, distrust and loathing of outsiders generally. However, Thailand is as it is because Thais are how they are. A rough with the smooth situation for most foreigners who want to stay in Thailand!

Yes, mostly.

Personally, I (a Westerner) love my non-communal style and space and freedom to act alone and without heavy consensus building ... I very much dislike that human interdependence that older cultures exhibit so prominently. But, that's just me. I think that by now, we should have 'evolved' past that kind of thing.

Anyway, I do understand the other portions of your message. However, (and I know you did not suggest this) I don't think the only choices are:

A. Thailand for the Thais

B. Thailand for the New World Order -- tacitly suggesting these two things are mutually exclusive.

I believe you can have both -- a proud country which takes care of its citizen but which also welcomes other, non-natives who demonstrate the "right" or "desirable" characteristics and which will provide for these non-native citizens, guests even, with equal regard -- esp under the law.

The US does it just fine for the most part.

You can define the pride of a country in many ways that don't deal with race and xenophobia. Most have yet to do this successfully, but the US social experiment proves it can be done with some obvious difficultly.

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

This is off topic - but what relly bugs the sh!t out of me is that when "we farangs" go abroad we are expected to abide by every aspect of that foreign land without exception - however, when the shoe is on the other foot and "they" go to "our" countries when are expected to show tolerance ..... not just tolerance, but in some cases relinquish our nations beliefs and culture to make way for the alien..... and God forbid, if you put up any resistance then the full force of the las + every do-gooder in the land comes down on you like a ton of bricks for being "racist"......

Racism is like sexism ..... your only racist if your white complaining about non-whites ...... your only sexist if you're a man...... when prejudice or racism is done unto us (I am white, male) we are expected to appologise for being a victim of it.

So the victim in this case somehow drew it upon himself? Have you not seen the fleets of Mercedes, Beamers, and other status symbols that Thai's drive around in? Should they not practice humility too and come out in sympathy for the $10-a-day workers? Oh, I get it .... middle age white guy has nice house so he's a mug and deserves what he gets?

Don't get me wrong, some people deserve what they get, regardless of race, age, creed, or gender...... because they are obnoxious arrogant nasty sods ...... but the reality for most of us is that these Thai thugs victimise and exploit farangs in Thailand - its plain and simple racism and if it happened in reverse order in the UK or otherwise you would be publicly executed for it.

You know, I understand your message here. However, as I was reading it, I thought about what could be proposed as another view. Actually, I had two reactions.

1. Not all places are equally honorable -- by this, in my head, I meant to suggest that we can't expect Thailand to follow the same moral compass as exists (with respect to this narrow topic of crime/contract work disputes) in the UK or US. After all, in the West, there has been great effort and sacrifice toward the law and order and manner in which the majority of people conduct themselves.

2. However, I then immediately contradicted myself (in my head) thinking ... well, what if we consider a simple idea (that): time is not linear and progress is not equivalent in all countries but this notion should not lead us to write off nations who have made or appear to have made less progress. It was not so long ago that these types of things were quite common in our own countries and where grossly worse atrocities were committed to various peoples. Violent racism -- British (and Euro) Imperialism, Atlantic Slave Trade (US), Jews in Euro, WWI, WWII, so on and so on.

I am in no way condoning these tragic, cowardly types of attacks, and I know we as foreigners are often much more vulnerable (and targeted) here in Thailand, but I would also, unfortunately, be able to see how someone who is well-read on historical topics such as those I mentioned and others would probably regard these types of events differently and perhaps with less racial or country-specific anger/hatred.

Complicated stuff.

Again, understanding when you're vulnerable and acting accordingly can often, but not always, help protect you and your assets.

All this reporting of farang being targeted is clearly on the surface, a very disturbing trend. Yet, one thing almost all of the 'innocent' targets seem to have in common is how they have been flaunting their wealth and living a very decadent lifestyle, in a country which has long been exploited by farang (pretty much the whole world has been exploited by farang for the last 500 years). I am sorry to hear of anyone being attacked for any reason, but the one thing many of these 'victims' seem to have in common is that they were drawing a lot of negative attention to themselves. The flaunting of wealth alone does not seem to be a catalyst, but if you combine it with other activities/attitudes, it seems to be a tipping point which leads to these attacks. It is sad that someone living in a mega mansion in a country which is desperately trying to establish a minimum wage of $10 a day, cannot understand why ripping off someone living in a shanty would cause anger and problems. If you do not like the way they work, do it yourself.

I am all for moving to another country and culture, but the very first thing you should do is learn to respect that culture and the people in it. You are a guest, and regardless of how long you live there, you will always be viewed as an outsider by some, if not most people (it is no different for a foreigner in the USA/UK, an accent will always give you away, regardless of appearance). Since you are CHOOSING to live there, it should be because you truly like the country and the people as they are, not because you think it is a good situation for you to exploit and take advantage of.

I agree with almost all of this.

Where I disagree (strongly) is that one who chooses to emigrate to another country need not like the country and/or people, and certainly can and should feel free to move with the sole intentions on exploiting some opportunity. However, as you (and others) have pointed out, one should never remember (whether guest or not) that respect is often going to be key to one's survival -- esp in a place where he/she is more vulnerable.

Millions and millions of immigrants here (Chinese, for instance) didn't immigrate to Thailand with the driving force being their love of the Thais. They came here to exploit perceived/real opportunity. Same most anywhere in the world.

It's nice indeed if you come to like the country and people, but it's not a requirement in business and capturing opportunity. You better know, however, when you're vulnerable.

Nice legs.

You're talking about ASSK, right? Puu's legs are actually kind of fat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_tolerance

Says:

1) alcohol tolerance is affected by *training* / drinking regularly

2) alcohol tolerance can also be affected by genetics with approximately 1 out of 3 Asians being unable to metabolize alcohol. I would doubt that those prone to being unable to process alcohol would drink regularly and certainly not a lot when they do drink.

My experience has been that NOBODY drinks more than us people of Euro decent. Cultural thing.

You could chop facebook today and there are still loads of platforms for freedom of speech......rather unfortunately in some cases.

Is that the Pol Pot-yard stick? Unless every sole venue of speech is blocked it is still in your eyes 'free' and no actions is of concern?

I take it then that you missed the announcement from Twitter on Friday?

Twitter announced on Friday it will allow foreign governments to censor tweets within their own countries."As we continue to grow internationally, we will enter countries that have different ideas about the contours of freedom of expression. Some differ so much from our ideas that we will not be able to exist there. Others are similar but, for historical or cultural reasons, restrict certain types of content, such as France or Germany, which ban pro-Nazi content." Until now, the only way Twitter could block content was by deleting it entirely. The new policy allows it to block users in specific countries from seeing certain tweets."Starting today, we give ourselves the ability to reactively withhold content from users in a specific country — while keeping it available in the rest of the world," Twitter wrote.

Source multiple newsfeeds

Now, the question that then arises, what exactly is the issue about Facebook in Thailand that sets it apart from the restrictions other countries have on Facebook? And then there is this announcement from Twitter. Do you plan on blaming Thailand for that as well?

It is not that I disagree with your position that broad censorship raises a bunch of issues, including freedom of speech. I understand your fundamental point, and I do agree with some of your sentiment. However, the Thai approach to Facebook is really no different that Thai Visa's rules in respect to the discussion of certain subjects. Why are you angry at the Thai government on this issue? It has tried to address the LM law but was met with significant resistance from some political groups and the military. Shouldn't you be wagging a finger at those vested interests, rather than the government that wishes to make some changes? Seems to me that your anger is misdirected.

A little sad potentially and scary. During the floods this past year, Twitter was the single place I and my family (and close friends) could depend on for timely, accurate information. Can you imagine being in the same situation and not having access to such information as could happen if the government would censor tweets?

She was a keynote speaker at the opening conference called "Women as the Way Forward” intended to exchange opinions on the values and roles of female leaders.

That a puppet, that hasn't held any job that her brother hasn't assigned for her, elected as a proxy for the only reason that she has the same family name as her brother and a pretty face, to be a keynote speaker on a conference called "Women as the Way Forward" its an insult to women in real positions of leadership that have earned their status through their own skills and struggles.

F****** Yingluck talking about the values and roles of female leaders

Pathetic.

As noted previously in Yingluck WEF thread #2, Yingluck was not a keynote speaker.

She had 6 brief minutes of opening remarks, not a keynote address, delivered to the international audience in Thai, with a farang male translating into English on the translation headsets.

.

As the finer points of English seem to go over Thailand man's head I'll leave it at that. The formatting thing is Thaivisa's problem.

Or perhaps you are too tired to defend your earlier points. How do you know if English is even my first (or only language)?

I'd still LOVE to hear your replies to my now weeks old rebuttals to your thin arguments.

Anyway, no country is perfect, but to suggest that Thailand, by some magic of tolerance or pro-multiculturalism, has integrated various peoples, is, I believe, a bit disingenuous of you.

...except that I suggested nothing of the sort.

Previous posters were regurgitating, what I think, was largely unfounded paranoia that they were all at risk of being kicked out at a moments notice, to which I, like you, think is simply unfounded. I then proceeded to highlight examples to counter this assumption.

The migrant labour scheme is no secret, nor is it secret that the rules to hire labour from neignbouring countries are signficantly simpler and less burdensom on business and indiviuals than it is to issue standard work permits to other foriegners.

As for the Chinese, I take your point, but using past policy to my mind is a bit like using the White Australia Policy or Jim Crow laws in the US to comment on the state of relations between communities in those countries today. And the situation on the ground in Thailand for people with Chinese hertatige is significantly different - and in my mind, more advanced - when compared to most other SE countries.

If you think work visas are "given away like candy", you are living in cloud cuckoo land - money is always involved via the employer.

The Burmese are at least 90% illegal immigrants, working for even less than the poorest Thais.

Except you were talking about the government kicking you out, so what has that got to do with employers? Sure some do, many don't.

While I'd be a fool to say there are no illegal workers in Thailand (there are many) that doesn't deny the fact that visa's are given away quite easily to people from Burma, Laos and Cambodia. I'd also say that the system is quite overloaded due to its success.

I'd suggest you stroll down to Suan Phlu one day to see the queues of people from these countries getting their paperwork sorted, or head to your local labour office to see the government information printed up in these languages on how to organise their paperwork. You'd see tonnes of people lining up to register under this programme. They all can't be repressed workers being hired by cunning Thai businesses ready to scam them...

Your contention was that somehow foreigners are on the verge of being kicked out, which if you look at what the Thai government actually does in terms of visa's and work permits for even the least loved of Thailand's neigbours, blows out of the water some of the delusional theories you see sprouted on this board.

OK

''Beauty is in the eye of the beholder''… yadda yadda yadda….

I’m surprised people think this farmer lady is anything more than just ok…. perhaps the ‘reference’ or benchmark for most posters is skewed?

This thread is a real eye opener… ‘Real Women’ ??? The farmer (I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt ) is as real as any model or highly attractive young lady.....

She’s and those like her (the protestor) are simply more attainable to the majority of western guys. The model on the other hand is unattainable to most which is why some might choose to pull the wool over their own eyes in their claims of attraction to what must universally be considered a less attractive alternative.

LMAO!

How would you explain rich men who did not marry or don't prefer to date 'more desirable, attractive' women? How would you explain men who did marry or who do date 'prettier' women but who also sleep with 'uglier' prostitutes and such? Very complicated stuff indeed.

I've dated all kinds of beautiful women. The highly desirable, white skinned Koreans, Japanese leg models, rich, White, Black, Latina -- all kinds of 'pretty' girls, and, to be honest with you, my best intimate experiences were with other kinds of women. It's nice to be seen with a 'pretty' girl, model, 'whathaveyou', but once you're over the initial pride of having scored one, most things (in terms of desirability) level out. More often than not, what makes the 'pretty' girls less desirable is how they've been mentally conditioned as a result of being told and treated like they are 'gold' much of their lives. Not all, but many in my experience.

Of course models are not attainable for MOST MEN (not just non-Thai men), and, of course, there are likely to be a high percentage of non-Thais here in Thailand who cannot hope to attain these kinds of women (as Thailand seems to attract a good deal of a) older men, who b ) are not so well off), but there would be a pretty high percentage of these same men (if having the resources to attain these women) would STILL not choose them over many of the others, I'm guessing.

The typical farm girl and the typical model are two different types of women. The model, more like a fancy, expensive, ultra luxury but delicate, hard to maintain, Italian sports car -- like a Ferrari or something silly. The farm girl more like something that you can actually drive; something functional -- like a real Range Rover.

Anyway, I don't think many people are saying that the celebrity is not pretty. She's quite pretty. But, sadly human evolution has not designed us men to weigh this prettiness thing as heavily as some would suggest -- and especially not when considering who to enter the 'sack' with. The equation for Western men, at least, is far more complex than the Asian equation which tends to just pick a face (irrespective of body) etc. I don't care how my food is arranged on the plate as long as it tastes good. Youknowhwatimean?

EDIT:

Anyway, one social-scientific theory suggests that what many of us find attractive in the celebrity sense is shaped by things other than sex, procreation the continuation of the species. Back in the day when we were dwelling in caves and the like, these ultra skinny, tall celebrity type women would not have been chosen over the farm girl type. We have not evolved that much since then. For instance, the waist/hip ration is *healthier* in the woman with the signs. Her body exudes *s3x* which is attractive to many men. But, all comes down to personal preferences.

Give me this girl Aum's face on the woman with the signs.

Thaivisa: It's all about members helping members.

well done...

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PERFECT!!! Made my morning

So you think that the government should do NOTHING and just let drug criminals run free killing your children? Why is it that when the Thai government makes a stand and tries to clean Thailand up in any way the TV members start all these posts that seem to be "anti, anti drug war?'

Seems to me that the government should just hand over ALL of their issues to members on Thaivisa and you can all figure it out for them?

I say all the power to these brave police etc. and wish them the best of luck and hope that no one gets hurt.

Sure you can go on and on and on about what Thaksin did but get a grip people, that was the past, this is the present. It's a good thing that Thai's don't listen to anything said here on these forums.

You've gotten many answers so far, but I'll give you a really important one thus far missing.

Nothing wrong with declaring a war on drugs and going after criminals. However, the last guy who tried to eliminate the problem here in Thailand did so with very little due process. People were just wiped out. How many were innocent/guilty, nobody knows.

<snips>

Too each his own, but as nice as the bar dancer is for her age, I prefer Aum

Yes, pretty indeed -- at least in these overexposed photographs. Picture on the right is pretty forward for Thai female celebrity last I checked. Culture Ministry was supposed to be on top of stuff like that. Anyway, is this girl you posted, the same as the one (referenced above) who stripped on Silom?

Yes, it's the same. She has several different looks...

.

Not bad ... If forced to pick one, however, I'll stick with the *real* woman holding up the sign about farming issues (or whatever she's protesting for). Like you said, just personal preference.

EDIT: but, yeah, as another posted put it, the face on the farm girl could use a bit of touching up. Give me this girl Aum's face on the woman with the signs.

Anyway, I hope the protest goes well. She certainly has drummed up a good deal of interest (though, perhaps from people with no Thai voting rights, I'm afraid).

I was wondering where the assumption came from that people were immigrants. All farang, unless they have Thai PR or citizenship are non-immigrants at best.

One of my pet peeves is people who continually try and say we are all guests simply because the bureaucracy says we are. My life is here. My job is here. My children are Thai. Just because I have to request an extension of stay every year on what is technically a non-B has nothing to do with reality. In every way that matters, I've been here 15 years and am an immigrant. Technicalities are largely irrelevant.

By all means, think of yourself as a guest if that makes you happy. My home is here. I object to people continually trying to tell me I am a guest simply because there are a few rules I have to follow to maintain my residency. I wouldn't consider myself to be a "guest" in an apartment complex where I lived simply because I had to pay rent every month, and could be evicted if I didn't. Similarly, I don't consider myself a "guest" in this country simply because I have to apply for an extension of stay periodically.

And let's all hope that the government will always allow us foreigners to stay here.

Unfortunately, there's always the fear that as few foreigners are granted citizenship, and politics tends to look for 'someone to blame' - we could all be thrown out at any moment to satisfy a voter need to get rid of the 'jews' - or rather, the Thai equivalent....

it is largely a paranoid fear based on not very much evidence. I mean this is a country which gives away work visas like candy to historical enemies in Burma and Cambodia and has integrated the Chinese better than just about any other SE Asian country. If they are doing that for them, thinking that they are going to chuck out westerners (who can visa run their life here) is a bit of a stretch.

As for the citizenship one...well given that so few bother to apply, then you wouldn't expect many to be granted it now would you?

Gregb is right, it is largely semantics. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck....etc etc.

Samran, I like many of your posts, but you're off on this one. Actually, you are pretty far from the truth indeed.

Thailand has a fairly well documented history of xenophobia and racism.

The Chinese have not been so much integrated by the Thais (as you have stated) as much as they have fought and triumphed through the heavy racism they've faced for certainly more than a century here in Thailand.

From Wikipedia:

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaification

Anyway, no country is perfect, but to suggest that Thailand, by some magic of tolerance or pro-multiculturalism, has integrated various peoples, is, I believe, a bit disingenuous of you.

That said, I don't think Thailand is so bad as to 'throw out' a bunch of legal permanent or temporary residents here.

<snips>

Too each his own, but as nice as the bar dancer is for her age, I prefer Aum

Yes, pretty indeed -- at least in these overexposed photographs. Picture on the right is pretty forward for Thai female celebrity last I checked. Culture Ministry was supposed to be on top of stuff like that. Anyway, is this girl you posted, the same as the one (referenced above) who stripped on Silom?

.

there's been another stripping incident...

Superstar Strips down to Mini Skirt on Silom Road

katoi mai?

She is a real girl just look like it a bit

Sadly, the superstar is far less appealing than the (poor) farmer.

<p>

<br />

1) Of course traffic engineering is important; that certainly makes sense.<br />

<br />

2) Having well thought road regulations is also important.<br />

<br />

3) Enforcing said regulations is certainly also important, and having high enough penalties for infractions is important.<br />

<br />

BUT, because there is not likely to soon be enough technology employed on our planet's roads to watch over everyone all the time,<br />

<br />

<strong>4) educating the driving populace is also very important</strong>.  You can't engineer away pure stupidity/selfishness.  No amount of traffic engineering (save for automatic computer driven vehicles) will prevent most of the accidents that occur from, say, tailgating at speeds over 100KM/h.  Neither will traffic engineering stop people from going down roads the wrong way (although, true, it may indeed help discourage the behavior).<br />

<br />

As for Thai drivers, I agree that many seem to be fairly well adapted to the road conditions here which is to be expected.  And, yes, many of them are indeed rather impressive in how they manage to stay alive (thus far).  However, I can show you things in any inner city or poverty stricken country that might impress the same.  <br />

<br />

For instance, drug dealers in the 80s and 90s in NYC were remarkably adept at averting arrest by NYC and federal police.  They had all kinds of tricks.  They were older and would approach us young kids when they thought police were hot on their trail and would have neighborhood kids (most of us unaware of the danger we were being put in) hold all manner of drugs (and even sell it) until the heat was off of them.  Back then, it was a very impressive plan.  They decentralized their drugs and used a decentralization network that was often not prosecutable.  Despite all this ingenuity, if you will, the drug dealers nonetheless played a major role in destroying a generation of minority kids and families and themselves.  In other words, their skill at selling drugs betrayed them and those around them.<br />

<br />

Thai drivers are similar.  They are very adept at handling their vehicles on the messed up roads and maneuvering at high speeds while tailgating.  But, of course, the death tolls betray their impressive driving ability.  The numbers of people maimed permanently altering their lives likely for the worse betray their driving skills.  The negative impact to the economy from congestion caused by traffic accidents betrays their driving ability as well.  <br />

<br />

It's complex, but even when trying to be my absolutely fairest and most objective, there is certainly a very high number of Thai drivers (at least as I have observed) which routinely conduct themselves in ways that any objective traffic engineer or physics professor would deem very dangerous.<br />

</p>

<p> </p>

<p>your observations are of course pretty worthless they are merely the reinforcement of a personal perception.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If an objective test were possible I think you'd find that the percentage of crap drivers in Thailand would be about the same as anywhere else.....of course one can't define "crap" objectively and a test would be pretty difficult to arrange.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Any compilation of roads statistics will have a paragraph that explains the vagaries of compiling let alone comparing roads stats.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>but if you look at the roads rather than the drivers you will see trends emerge on a world-wide scale.....nothing to do with being Thai.</p>

<p>however for the sake of the average TV member it fits nicely into their condescending and racist views of Thai people to suggest that in some way they are innately possessed of an inability to driver that infers the the expat is innately superior......and that really is crap!</p>

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It's a little hard to read your post due to formatting issues, but I will try to respond briefly.

I disagree that my observations are 'pretty worthless'.

Perhaps you did not understand the point I was making in response to the other poster's post. Perhaps an English language idiom will help.

"All that glitters (high stakes driving skill) is not gold (translating into relatively safe or enjoyable or efficient roads)."

If you are suggesting here that people / drivers are not a very important part of the equation and/or that people / drivers either 1) do not differ among countries and/or 2) do differ but not in ways that contribute to accidents or accident statistics, I would like to hear more from you on your argument.

As for my opinions about Western driving ability, I am not of the opinion that I can correctly pick out the safer/better driver 100 percent of the time simply by using a person's ethnicity or country of origin. It is possible, however, to make a statement of observation (having observed a preponderance of evidence, in this particular case, against many Thais) without being racist.

erm, it's "all that glisters is not gold", just to be pedantic (Merchant of Venice - also Aesops fables)

Thank you for the correction.