Sheryl

Unhelpful/trolling posts have been removed

Exactly. And Q&A ssurances from the RD make clear they plan to abide by DTAs. Also make clear that savings brought into Thailand would be taxable only if from income earned while a resident of Thailand. People are reading into this new regulation all manner of things not there. It does one thing and one thing only, which is to remove a prior provision that assessable income earned abroad while a resident of Thailand and remitted in a following year (not the year in which it was earned) is no longer exempt. Nothing else. It does not alter what is assessable income and certainly does not override DTAs. Income earned prior to becoming a tax resident of Thailand (e.g. most Expat's savings) remains non-assessable. So does income earned abroad that is not transferred to Thailand. Government pensions, US SS etc remain exempted if so stated in the relevant DTA. It does not make it mandatory to file a return in no taxes are owed. It is not specifically aimed at foreigners let alone foreign retirees. I cannot imagine the RD wanting to get several hundred thousand more tax filings to review from people owing no or very low amounts of tax. Last thing they would have any reason to want.

With medical expenses only 10k baht would not be worth it even if it included Motos.

A psychiatrist would indeed usually prescribe meds but a therapist/psychologist will not. Rather they will offer talk therapy like CB T which can be very heloful. See the pinned mental health thread, there are some good Western counselors here.

AA is good if you are going to have a a Thai issued policy (which I definitely do not recommend). They cannot handle intetnationally issued expat policies (which is what I recommend). For that a broker headquartered in either your home country or the country where the insurer is based is preferrable and make sure they have experience with international expat policies.

They do not need to understand US tax treatment of SS benefits. (And would be in any case unlikely to figure it out from a tax return). What they need to understand is that SS benefits are assessable only in the US. If they do not understand this DTA provision regarding US Social Security then showing a tax return will not help. They will think that a tax return showing no tax paid means the full SS amount is taxable in Thailand and that one showing tax paid should declare the benefits as income on a Thai return and claim a tax crefit -- wrong in both cases. Since SSA sends out an annual statement of benefits and, at tax time, the equivalent of a form 1099 there is ample documentation of income from this source and no reason I can see to file a US tax return if this is the sole income and no US tax due on it.

I don't see why you would need or want to. Us Social Security is not assessable income in Thailand. Full stop. Not droendent on filing a US tax return. The annual statement of benefits SSA sends out each year and their annual IRS form are proof of income from this source.

But if no tax due, no return required, yes?

Not true for some types of pensions under some DTAs. True for others.

I don't see how they can. I would expect instead (in the case of people on retirement extensions/visa) some sort of attestation you can make that the source of funds was savings from income earned before becoming a Thai resident. IF retirees are required to submit documentation at all. Between the fact that some types of retirement income are non-Assessable under DTAs, savings from income earned before becoming a Thai resident are also non-assessable, and that tax credits have to be provided for any tax paid in the home country, the potential gain in revenue would be quite small and the whole thing a huge hassle. It is worth noting that under the old rules, overseas pensions directly remitted to Thailand (except were exempted under a DTA) were always taxable yet as far as I know, no effort was ever made to enforce that.

The change will go ahead, that is not in doubt. Whether expat retirees will be made to file returns even when they have no assessable income (and if so, how strictly that will be enforced) remains to be seen. I would hope that if that does happen, there will be accountants or agents versed in DTAs etc able to do the paperwork for us and provide any needed certificates. From my past dealings with my provincial RD (who among other things believe there is no such thing as retirement visa or extension, all farangs must be working here, and other nonsense) trying to file on my own would be a disaster even though all my remittances to Thailand are very clearly non-assessable under the DTA. As a matter of curiosity, does anyone know if the Thai tax code requires people who owe no tax to still file a return? Certainly most Thais in that situation seem not to do this. Neither do migrant workers, and even though here on explicit work visas there is no requirement for them to show tax clearance documents to extend.

Not if his savings are from income earned before he became resident in Thailand. Accoring to the RD this is not assessable income. It is people with current income from work abroad, property rentals, interest, dividends etc that are going to be most affected by this.

https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=940349&key=652a2822f134d0711b1645dd1f24dd03 418.36 kB · 18 downloads Answers to questions 5, 6 and 9 clearly state that savings transferred to Thailand that are from income earned before becoming a Thai resident are not assessable.

You are assuming they would not have work in Thailand? Why? And why assume that a move to Thailand at such a young age is going to be permanent? Quite common for young people to come to Thailand for professional reasons. Might even be a wise career move depending in their field. Also quiet common for young people to take some time out from work or schooling and come as a volunteer (Peace Corps, NGOs etc) or as a teacher. This is temporary and can be quite enriching. I see no problem. They can always go back to farangland and resume their prior careers. Or they may, after this experience, develop a whole new career path. I would be far, far more worried about a 50-60 year old deciding to retire and move to Thailand without substantial wealth to back them up, based on a bare bones calculation that assumes costs here stay the same, currency exchange stays the same, never will have a serious illness or accident, etc.

I don't think there is any problem with coming to live in Thailand while young per se. What is a problem, and I see it all the time on this forum, is retiring too young, based on current exchange rates and current cost of living in Thailand (usually not including future medical costs or health insurance or for that matter any other potential emergency into the mix). And on whatever the current financial requirements for retirement extensions was. The implicit assumptions that exchange rates won't change for the worse, that cost of living will stay much the same, and that immigration rules won't change, are deeply flawed as many have found out. By the time they find this out it is too late to get back in the workforce. Of course there are some independently wealthy people with large enough nest eggs to retire early. But the more usual scenario is a fixed old age pension and limited savings which, as cost of living rises and exchange rates fluctuate, lead to being ensconced here without adequate means and having difficulty meeting immigration requirements. I would also add, also problematic is those who completely sever all ties to their home country, leaving themselves with no exit plan when/if they need to return for medical care or because (due to above mentioned factors) they can no longer afford to live in Thailand.

Thank you for that link, I had not seen it. Hopefully someone will at some point develop an English translation. However Q 10 deals only with the case where tax was actually paid in the other country, but does not address the situation where the income is not assessable in Thailand under terms of DTA irrespective of whether tax was due in home country. A common situation with US Social Security and government/state pensions as often the person's income is low enough not to incur a tax (in which case they are not even required to file a tax return). Probably not mentioned because the document is largely aimed at Thai citizens and their questions. One could infer from the answer to Q 10 that the RD intends to abide by the terms of DTAs but it would be more reassuring if this point was directly addressed. "Tax credits" do not apply and will not address the issue for these types of income which are under DTA not assessable in Thailand. Actually the most interesting for expats sections of this were questions 5,6 and again in Q 9 where it is clearly stated that income of any sort that was earned in a year when the person was not resident in Thailand 180 days or more, is not assessable in Thailand no matter when brought in. In other words, savings from income of any sort (wages, investments etc) earned prior to moving to Thailand -- very relevant for retirees - is not assessable in Thailand. Of course how one would go about proving that is another matter, most people could not, so I still recommend that US retirees as much as possible limit their transfers to Social Security and government pension (if any).

That is my reading, yes -provided one is resident in Thailand under the (complicated) definition of the DTA. Unlike most nationalities, US citizens in Thailand more than 180 days a year are legally tax residents in both the US and Thailand so DTA provisions on dual residency apply.

Do you have a link to that? I have not seen any official statements addressing this issue.

Actually I did not say that. I said DTAs will apply. Under terms of DTAs there are some expats who would owe tax. It is quite possible that given the complexity and hassle of sorting out tax liability for retirees from countries with DTAs the RD will largely not bother - but this remains to be seen and is not guaranteed. In the meantime US citizens would be well advised to limit their transfers in to income that is definitely not subject to Thai tax i.e. Social Security and (if any) government pension. If necessary, bring in lump sum of savings now before the new rules take affect. That way you are covered (from payment, not necessarily filing) no matter what.

And many publications in peer reviewed journals. You will he in good hands with her.

@DineshR My reading of the US tax treaty with Thailand is substantially the same as yours except that to my read it is only government pensions that cannot be taxed in Thailand. Private pensions can be. Of course, any tax you have to pay in Thailand on private pension and the various other taxable incomes can be claimed as a tax credit on your US return. In fact, it could be argued from the terms of the Tax treaty that any income taxable in Thailand under the DTA should be fully exempt from US taxes. (You'll need an accountant versed in expat issues) To simplify life, you might like to limit your remittances to Thailand to direct deposit of your Social Security (and government pension if that is what you have). If currently using income method and these sources not enough, switch to the 800K method and bring that money in before end of the year. Like that you should be home free since it is only assessable income remitted to Thailand after 1 January that is at issue. If you can't live on just SS, make up the difference through use of a US credit card paid from a US bank account and perhaps occasional ATM withdrawal from US bank account.

Nobody is going to monitor ATM withdrawals, that is absurd, with millions of tourists each year making them. However IF (still far from sure) you are required to make a tax filing in Thailand, not declaring any income coming in at all would surely raise questions since obviously you must be living on something.

This. There is a detention area within the airport (guarded). You go there until your flight out. "Reviews" of the place aren't exactly favorable, communication is limited and you have little or no say on when and where you fly out. But certainly better than the IDC. You are never let free in the departure area. When it is time to go you are escorted right onto the plane.

I would definitely be guided by Prof. Ampica's recommendation. Otherwise https://sriphat.med.cmu.ac.th/find_doctor?lang=en&doctor_name=&spec_name=17&special_name=55

They do not cover everyone and will most likely deny cover when they see your diabetes history. But you can try. The only way to find out for sure is to submit an application. I suggest you go through a broker like AA. Thai insurers in particular have a bad history of paying claims and you may need the support should you get the policy and have a claim.