Ferangled

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

No need to apologise at all, my question was a theoretical one, in which (in my case) I would look at the autocratic leanings of PTP, their attempts to overturn rulings of the supreme court, their refusal to even admit reading what are patently obviously their own bills, much less discuss those bills openly, their attempts to push forward these outrageous bills with quite literally insane speed, and finally their call-to-arms of their street brigade when their undemocratic actions within parliament have finally caused intolerable outrage among the Opposition and most impartial observers. My contention is that PTP are not interested in democracy with its tiresome debates and diplomacy, but in obtaining and maintaining power by any means. This means that I am suggesting if and when PTP are voted out they would certaiinly not go quietly let alone gracefully.

My question and contention was directed not at you but Carra in response to their post directed at me, I replied in the same terms along the yellow/red lines Carra posted at me. My original point was actually how the mob have been mobilised outside parliament despite their own party being in leadership inside, and how imo PTP have the position to address disputes using the tools of open democratic debate within the building, while choosing not to use, even to abuse these democratic tools they instead call their street-team to entrench and enforce outside the building, PTP's refusal to openly debate their own bills.

Yunla, you simply turned Worawut's comments around, noting that red shirts were familiar with causing the same chaos he alluded to, Carra pointed out that the reds aren't the only ones capable of forming a mob and causing chaos, the yellows have considerable experience of this to.

I note that you got a response to your question but chose to ignore mine. Do you think the Dems will patiently wait for the next general elections?

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it? The blatant difference being they have actually won a general election, Abhisit didn't.... he lost and had no choice but to step down.

Yes, I said in my post to paraphrase ;

Abhisit stepped down gracefully when he was voted out, would you expect the same from the redmob. Obviously in this question is implied the same parameters for both integers i.e. he was voted out and my question was regarding PTP being voted out.

By leaping on and misinterpreting my question you have also failed to answer it.

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

A subject on which the redmob can speak with great erudition.

and the yellows

My question to you, is would you really expect see the redmob/PTP/Thaksin regime step down with equally gentle grace? Or would you see them go out with a 'bang', as they are dragged kicking and screaming away from their golden trough.

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it? The blatant difference being they have actually won a general election, Abhisit didn't.... he lost and had no choice but to step down.

If they are to be dragged kicking and screaming away from "the golden trough" without losing an election, simply so others can feed, I'm quite sure there will be trouble, as there would be if the roles were reversed.

Both sides of this coin take to the streets if they don't get what they want through the courts, we've seen it time and time again.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

That is something I would have to agree with entirely but I fear is tragically unlikely given the endemic corruption and greed. Too many have vested interests and will not simply walk away, as Mr T demonstrates so abundantly well.

Yes there would be challenges, especially with competition with the big money of the Shinawatra clan flying around which funds propaganda, bribes, supplemental salaries of key players and social engineering / "community building" gatherings; but it would at least be progress. Almost any alternative to having Thaksin and his Pheu Thai party ruling the country is better. Abhisit is one example of someone who would be a good leader of the people, as he has never been seen to act in the kind of greedy and corrupt self-interest we see in many other politicians and ex-politicians including Thaksin.

Yes I expect the fact that Thaksin was removed by the military and the doubling of the military budget under Abhisit were completely unrelated and coincidental... you first post hit the nail on the head, "leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establishment".

To my mind Abhisit doesn't quite fit this criteria... nor it would seem is he capable of winning a general election.

It doesn't have to be one-or-the-other. The people should come up with their own leaders, leaders who are not connected with Thaksin nor the traditional establshment, who are not dishonest or corrupt, who are competent (in education, skills and experience) for the positions that they take on, and who will genuinely work hard for the people that they represent.

That is something I would have to agree with entirely but I fear is tragically unlikely given the endemic corruption and greed. Too many have vested interests and will not simply walk away, as Mr T demonstrates so abundantly well.

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

Hey Thaddeus

It seems we are both taking this personally and we are both Irrational. I find it such a weight off my shoulders to be told what I think by these two, do you feel the same?

Ferangled for the very last time, I am not banging my head against the wall because someone disagreed with me, if you display a little courtesy and read the last few pages you will see that Nurofiend made a rather generic statement about expats in Thailand. I and others have corrected him as that is not how I or those other respective members think at all. Nurofiend now insists on letting us know he is right and we are wrong, we do not know our selves, and you are jumping on his bandwaggon. Do yourself a favour and get off it. I am the worlds expert in all there is to know about me and what/how I think, and Nurofiend comes nowhere close to a millionth of that level of knowledge

Neither does he profess to be! Get off your high horse, no one is attributing any opinion to you and no one is telling you or Thaddeus what to think. Nurofiend made a statement of his opinion:

"Itruly believe that an aspect of why a lot of expats hate him is the affect that the turmoil had on them personally and to their own comfort in the country"

He hasn't said all ex pats, he hasn't even stated this as fact, simply given his opinion. Both you and Thaddeus have made it abundantly clear that you don't believe this is true and that it doesn't apply to you...great, whatever.

Now you expect everyone to take you as indicative of every expat in Thailand? Get a grip and stop taking it so personally, he is entitled to his opinion and whether or not it is factually accurate is not proved or disproved by you expressing that you don't agree!!! Get over it.

If you even attempted to put your own view across then fine but you don't you simply pour scorn on the opinion of others. It's lame and childish and you seem to completely miss the point. It's not about whether you or Nurofiend are correct, this is a forum for people to express their opinions and discuss Thai news.

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Ok I'm going to take you on up this one.The reason (in your words) " that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this" is because instead of him taking his stolen money and leaving the scene entirely is that he came back and funded an armed uprising with his face on every Tshirt as far as the eye could see, an ugly shambolic uprising that cost the country a lot of money and over ninety lives. Then he got his sister to run for office, and then she brought a bill to parliament which has the central component of 'stopping Thaksin from going to jail and giving back Thaksin his criminal proceeds of 46bn'.

If Thaksin hadn't returned in 2010 with his murderous uprising and Yingluck hadn't thrust her brothers name and criminal past back int the very centre of government policy, we would all be saying 'I wonder what that old crook is up to' and laughing very loudly at people talking about his comeback. It is Thaksin and Yingluck - not me - who are ensuring as you say "that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this".

It is Yingluck and Thaksin who will not let the country forget Thaksin. It is not TV forumers or the rural poor or the opposition who will not let the country forget Thaksin.

The PTP are in power today! Are the poorest dancing for joy? Are their lives so much better now thanks to Thaksin and sister having power? Can you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Yingluck has enacted for the poorest? Or can you see her and PTP's main policy-drive centred around washing the dirty bloody hands of her brother.

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

The red elected government had policies that promised their voters lot of wonderful things and delivered none of those things except some downmarket computer tablets. The red elected prime minister is seen in parliament so rarely even the security guards probably have to ask her for I.D., and her actual input in policymaking and debate is so microscopic, that the oppositiion are not demanding she be 'overthrown' or to use your word "removed", the opposition are demanding she shows up for work, engages in free unscripted debate, and answers the questions about these bills and if she believes in them she should stand her ground and debate it openly, and without having the opposition shouted down or marginalised from the debating process. She is absent from the debate and they are ignored in the debate. That is not a democracy, it is a scam.

Sorry but clearly they aren't my words Yunla, Thaksin didn't return to Thailand in 2010. I'm not going to defend the actions of Thaksin, Yingluck or the PTP MPs because I don't agree with so much of what they have done, but virtually all the points you make are as valid when asked of the previous administrations...

Were the poorest dancing for joy when Abhisit became PM?

Were their lives so much better thanks to Abhisit and the Dems having power?

Did you see huge infrastructure projects underway that Abhisit enacted for the poorest?

Or did you see him and the Dem's main policy-drive centred around absolving themselves of past actions and vilifying Thaksin and the PTP, whilst making due payment to the powers that instated him?

My point is that there is no single, convenient scape goat for the political troubles facing Thailand, it's a long string of corrupt, self serving politicians that have the blood of the people on their hands but it is much easier to simply lay the blame for all at Thaksin's feet and by holding him accountable the sinister dealings of others remains firmly in the shade.

Yes, this is a democracy and yes this is also a scam. Sadly the fact that the people have been duped by their chosen leaders doesn't change the fact that they democratically elected them.

Now it's time for change, to move on, the people know they have the power to vote their chosen into power, they just need someone worthy to stand behind... In my opinion this will not happen until people stop pointing fingers on both sides, which benefits no one and serves only to keep the same figures at the forefront of Thai politics.

And then a lot of ex-pats told him he was wrong, which first he chose to ignore.

And you try telling me what my opinion is on any given subject, it will receive a similar reaction.

You seem to entirely miss the point and are taking this subject far too personally.

No one is telling you what your opinion is. Just because you feel that your personal motivation doesn't match one that Nurofiend suggested was motivation for many, is proof of absolutely nothing other than you don't agree with his opinion. It doesn't make his opinion any less valid.

The irrationality with which you guys defend an opinion which requires no defence says more about your own sensibilities and lack of logical thought than it does anything else.

Ferangled

So i am having a knee jerk reaction and yunla is over simplifying things. I tell you what it would be far simpler if we label this and all the other threads " the world and what you think of it by Ferangled and Nurofiend thread". That way the rest of us can take the week off and you two can tell us what we all think and what is reality in the world. Granted it may not be good for the thread count but it will save many people from banging their heads against the wall..

That would be a fairly irrational approach and perhaps a more informed mind would question the actual content of the posts and give your own opinions rather than attacking someone else's point of view and acting childishly.

Everyone is fairly entitled to their own opinion, no one expects everyone to agree, but taking a differing opinion as a personal assault is quite ridiculous.

It's a fairly sad indication of your mindset if when faced with someone that disagrees with you or makes points that you object to, you prefer to bang your head against the wall or distract from the actual subject of debate than post up your opinions and support them.

Yunla makes some valid points and actually expresses her opinion and backs it up, I simply suggested I thought that particular post was overly simplifying the events so I posted my opinion and supported it. That's the essence of debating a subject. It doesn't make Yunla's opinion any less valid and I certainly don't take it as a personal attack because she expresses a different point of view to me.

The basis of your posts seems to be you're wrong because I don't agree with you... sorry if that doesn't wash with me or sway my sentiment in your favour, it just seems a very knee jerk and childish response.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

I can see your point but if you apply your above comment to the thread topic, I think you will find there is very little room for the mysterious vagueness or lack of insight into normal Thai people you are alluding to.

The fact is that in 2010 the same people ordered the redmob to go out and fight to overthrow the 'elites' which in agrarian populism terms means anyone who isn't basically a farmworker, are now ordering the redmob to go out and fight to defend the new elite aka PTP.

If you were watching 2010 redmob actions which I believe is a valid precursor to the actions urged in this thread title you will know that their orders of burning Bangkok down and destroying the 'elites' was the most vague and self-contradictory call to arms ever. They were funded by and their armed uprising ordered by a billionaire corporate crook, who along with his entire family is ultra-rich and unbearably hi-so, and the instructions the redmob were given was to crush the 'elites'. No wonder they got confused!

And what is there for any observer, foreign or Thai to not understand about it. Many Thais who liked Thaksin at the start of his PMship now utterly loathe him. Even the redmob have reportedly got divisional issues with him recently.

Transposing these extremely mixed messages of 2010 (a billionaire crushing the elites) to the topic of red shirts being told to fight to defend PTP, it is easy to see the same confusion in the administration.

PTP are in power by democracy, but they seem unable to defend their policies or their bills using the tools of democracy - transparent debate among all elected officials as a duty not a choice, along with open free opinion-forming and response by the voters. Instead PTP have a 'talk to the hand' policy of silence and avoidance, then when that leads to outrage among the opposition and voters, the PTP resort to their only actual real manifesto which is 'call out the mob'.

I think you overly simplify the events of 2010 and need to go back considerably further to see the whole picture. This has never been a one man tango but it serves well to vilify a single character as it draws attention away from the other players in this game.

It's amusing that you see Thaksin as "unbearably Hi-So" when much of these troubles are rooted in the fact that the established Thai "Hi-So" would never accept him as one of their own and resented everything he stood for. I'm not saying he's a whiter than white character, he clearly isn't, but he's simply one crook among many other better established crooks.

It serves the purposes of the really established Hi So in Thailand well to detract not just from their own shady dealings but from the real issue Thailand is facing: The long awaited empowerment and enlightenment of the masses and their mobilisation into politics.

It's inherently dangerous to ignore the real movement here and a real shame that Thaksin has become the main focus in all of this. I'm sure it would be much better for the people of Thailand if he did simply disappear quietly into the night but understanding the backdrop and what made him so popular in the first place, sadly this isn't likely to happen.

This situation suits only those that serve themselves; all the while everyone's eyes remain on big, bad Thaksin, the rich continue to get richer and the poor marginalised. Thaksin is clearly not the saviour of the people that he would like to be seen as, he used them as a platform to reach his own goals, but would he ever have got this far if they hadn't been marginalised and abused for years previously?

Now are we to expect the reds to sit back and watch a repeat of the charade we have seen in Thailand previously, as their elected Government are removed and replaced with someone more palatable to the powers that be? Too many people are getting wise to how the system works and if some form of reconciliation isn't established soon I'm afraid we're going to see more violence on the streets.

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt..."

For goodness sake, every one is entitled to their opinion but when Neurofiend tells me why I dislike Thaksin and I tell him he is wrong there is a problem with that! Is Nurofiend in my head? Are you? And Neurofiend is not talking about the majority of the Thai population whose quality of life and comfort has been hurt, he is presuming to summize why FARANG dislike Thaksin, and as one of those farangs I am telling him that in my case he is wrong, ok!

You seem to be taking this very personally. No one has singled you out and claimed to know what you are thinking or what motivates you. Neurofiend simply stated:

"i truly believe that an aspect of why a lot of expats hate him is the affect that the turmoil had on them personally and to their own comfort in the country"

Note "a lot of ex pats", he didn't say "Gentleman Jim". Similarly I haven't tried to tell you what you are thinking just given an opinion on what I see as the reality behind most of these strong convictions, not yours in particular.

The fact that this has promoted such a knee jerk response suggests that this has struck a chord with you and that in itself is quite telling.

Trying to find an article I read following the minor Phuket quake, where experts were predicting further quakes to the north of Phuket but came across this piece written 30/4/2012:

Mr Thanawat and his colleagues have become concerned about an undersea transform fault line next to the India/Burma subduction zone which runs from Sumatra to Burma. The transform fault is closer to Thailand and connects to another major transform line in Burma called Sakeng.

The fault line only came to local geologists' attention when they exchanged information recently with their Japanese colleagues, Mr Thanawat said.

After the major earthquake on April 11 they have paid closer attention to the fault line. Dr Thanawat said according to the Japanese, the fault has no record of activity for 50 years. He says geologists are now concerned it may become more active after the recent tremors.

The closest the fault line comes to Thailand is Barren Island opposite Ranong. If an earthquake triggered a tsunami it could reach Ranong within 30 minutes, Mr Thanawat said.

But he urged people not to be afraid and accept that Thailand is located in an earthquake and tsunami risk zone, so they should be prepared for the risks.

Interesting that they identify the fault line off Ranong as an area of concern only a month ago... It's quite rare to find much correlation between Earthquake prediction and actual events, especially in an area that hasn't had a quake for c.50 years. Can anyone confirm if this recent quake was as a result of movement on this actual fault?

You see Nurofiend you are not listening. That is two out of two people have told you that in their eyes your perceptions for their dislike of Thaksin are wrong. I will be the thrid. Thaksin has never had a negative impact on my quality of life or my comfort. If I want I could turn off the news and Thai Visa and could live in ignorant bliss for the rest of my days.

I dislike Thaksin because he is an egotistical megalomaniac. He has a vision that is Dictatorial in nature. I am from the West and dislike that kind of person, I am educated and know the lessons from history from the likes of people like Thaksin. That is why I dislike him. I also dislike him for his personal savage vendetta that appears to be destroying the economy of this country, take the rice pledging for example. The pain of what he is doing now will not be felt this year, but boy will it slap this country in the face in 3 years. Thaksin is doing to Thailand what Mugabe did to Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of Africa it is now in ruins, Thailand was the bread basket of Asia, watch this space! Perhaps you need to accept that YOUR opinion of how others feel is misplaced. Maybe you could get a poll started to show you the errors in your perceptions V's reality. That is three out of three people disagree with your assessment of why they (Farangs) dislike Thaksin.

To be fair I believe it is human nature to give the impression that your opinions come from an intelligent, well balanced, researched and considered thought process coupled with in depth research of the "facts". In reality the vast majority simply adopt the views of those around them and blindly swallow whatever the media puts in front of them.

I don't think anyone would expect a candid honest reply from anyone regarding the real motivation behind their stance on this, when in truth for many it would simply be because that is what "my mate reckons" or "that's the weight of local opinion where I live".

Clearly some small minority of us have learned to sit back, remain sceptical and try to keep a balanced open mind on the 1% of reality that we are given glimpses of, but most just like to give off that impression, when in reality their thought process is very far from balanced and considered; more akin to the mentality of a herd of sheep.

It's quite ironic that we now have a thread where those who staunchly oppose the current Government and the powers behind them, are playing the numbers game as a valid way to prove their point but are so happy to ignore the weight of Thai public opinion on the matter.

What I find really worrying is how strong peoples convictions are when based on so little actual transparent information and so much deliberate miss-information...

First - thaiexpattv - it works fine judging by the 2-day free trial which i just signed up for. Quick download of a zip file from an email link, and bang, live uk tv on the pc. But, given the time-difference between the UK and Thailand, i don't quite get the point - the main schedule, say between 7pm and 12 midnight, runs throughout the night in Thailand, so what's the big attraction of live stream tv from that time-zone ? Any programmes mostly created by British companies (60% minimum from memory), can be downloaded for nothing via 'thebox' - and in the case of many regular progs such as the soaps, they are uploaded in the UK by members and ready to view very soon after they finish showing there. Not saying that pay-for systems like thaiexpattv aren't good quality, just that the fees for streaming in the middle of the night might not be worthwhile for everyone.

Where did you get the email link/ zip file from? I signed up and received no email link or zip file just a password which gives me access to members area but no actual content!

Would like to try it out as an option for live sporting events with real English commentary and no advert breaks crudely cut into the content!

"Ovec........ had earlier submitted a budget request for the hiring of teachers and to provide students with equipment, but was refused."

Not a huge amount of money, but it's all been budgeted for more important things, such as tablets for 6yo, rice subsidies, taxi credit cards, and all the other failing populist schemes.

Does it matter how much they asked for previously? I happen to be a supporter of the technical education system having had a lot to do with the NSW version. and I certainly see ANY improvement in the Thai education system as a vastly better form of expenditure than the populist vote-buying garbage this lot espouse, and that includes tablets for 6yo children.

Is it too much to ask when B400 billion per year is spent supposedly propping up a rice subsidy scheme when most of it will be pilfered before reaching farmers?

Does it matter how much the previous request was or who rejected it? The thread is about THIS government refusing THIS amount NOW

This government hasn't refused this amount now!!! Now you're claiming that this recent request for 1.6 billion baht has been refused... check the OP again.

The short answer is no, you don't know the amount that was refused previously or it seems even whether or not it was rejected by this Government or even the status of the current budget request...

I only picked this, the amount you commented on without any knowledge of, as an example to show how quick you are to jump on any news thread to spout the same single minded anti PTP drivel, to the extent that the actual thread/ news story becomes irrelevant, as do the facts.

The thread is not about "this government rejecting this offer" as that is not the case. It's about a new budget request and mentions a previous request that was rejected, for how much and by whom we are not told but you just fill in the blanks as you go...

True is really a true problem. It's a bunch of bandits who don't give a damned shit about its customers unless for paying and continue to pay.

I am now already in a legal dispute with them (after I stopped the contract due to their side breaching the contract) and will bring them down to my level whether they like it or not. Fed up with these crooked bandits. I have now a satellite TV connection with magic box with exactly the same programs as with TRUE but at 12% of the price! Why you want to go on with TRUE... you can have it at barely 1/8 of the price if you have a speed internet connection (>6mb/sec).

If magic box = dream box, I wouldn't advertise using an illegal service while in legal dispute with True, certainly don't bring it up in court! As I understand it the dream boxes will stop functioning pretty soon anyway due to new subscription decoding by the same company that do it for Sky in the UK...

Oh Lordy, I was asking for MY post to be deleted as the content had dropped out.

Sorry, my mistake!

I took that coupled with the following comment in your next post as a direct and uncalled for attack on my posts! I'm obviously in an overly sensitive mood!!!

Ferangled - It is blatantly ridiculous to berate the current Government for the fact that there isn't a higher number of better trained vocational teachers...

OzMick - Well they just refused a middling sum to hire more, so who should we blame?

Ferangled - You've just posted that you have no idea how much money was asked for and now this is a "middling sum" - how much is middling exactly?!

OzMick - D'oh Take a look at the headline, Lightning. Bt1.6 billion sought

Now look at your question to me, re how much they asked previously.

Ferangled - Now you're being deliberately obtuse! No one has refused this budget request. The previous budget request was rejected. You reference that rejection in your posts, and the amount as "middling" but clearly have no idea as to the actual figure, or even who rejected the previous budget request.

"Ovec........ had earlier submitted a budget request for the hiring of teachers and to provide students with equipment, but was refused."

Not a huge amount of money, but it's all been budgeted for more important things, such as tablets for 6yo, rice subsidies, taxi credit cards, and all the other failing populist schemes.

How much money had Ovec previously requested or is it perhaps that you don't even know and are purely using this thread, as you do each and every news thread on TV, as a platform to launch your own personal attack on anything red/ Thaksin related ad nauseum?

Does it matter how much they asked for previously? I happen to be a supporter of the technical education system having had a lot to do with the NSW version. and I certainly see ANY improvement in the Thai education system as a vastly better form of expenditure than the populist vote-buying garbage this lot espouse, and that includes tablets for 6yo children.

Is it too much to ask when B400 billion per year is spent supposedly propping up a rice subsidy scheme when most of it will be pilfered before reaching farmers?

If you don't know then how can you label it not a huge amount of money?! Do you even know what Government rejected the previous budget request???!!!

Seems ridiculous that you could launch on such a rant when you are not in possession of all the facts, yet refer to them as if you are and deliberately ignore the fact that if there is such a massive shortage of teachers this is a direct result of the system inherited from the previous administration.

And who would teach him...there are no spare teachers

That's kind of the point. Higher quality vocational training is what Thai industry is crying out for... but they (governments) do not provide what's needed.

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I don't doubt that but I do doubt that the current issues Thailand faces are purely as a result of the latest Thai Government's incompetence and not a combined effort by a long string of equally corrupt and incompetent Governments.

I also doubt that continual childish finger pointing is beneficial to anyone, least of all the people of Thailand, but let's face it they come a distant second in favour of smearing s**t on the faces of opposing MPs.

It is blatantly ridiculous to berate the current Government for the fact that there isn't a higher number of better trained vocational teachers - how long have they been in office? Is there any single issue that Thailand faces that any previous administrations are responsible for?

"It is blatantly ridiculous to berate the current Government for the fact that there isn't a higher number of better trained vocational teachers..."

Well they just refused a middling sum to hire more, so who should we blame?

You've just posted that you have no idea how much money was asked for and now this is a "middling sum" - how much is middling exactly?!

Not quite sure what Ferangled is adding to the discussion!

Mel1 is a little quick on the assumptions.

As previously mentioned SF itself does not experience 4.0+ mag quakes every day. Australia has had 7 quakes >5.0 in the last 50 years, while you are very unlikely to experience a 5.0+ quake in the USA outside Alaska and California which average just over one per year albeit both states cover considerable areas. The UK has a 5.0+ about every 14 years and they are usually in the North Sea.

Magnitude does not always correlate with intensity experienced (measured on the MMI, Modified Mercalli Index from I-XII), as this is also driven by depth of quake, distance to epicentre, underlying geology and level of preparedness.

In the last 100 years there have been approx. 76 quakes magnitude 5.0 or less that have caused fatalities. Most caused single to low single digit deaths with the only major exception being a 4.3 mag quake in PNG in 1988 that killed 76 as it had a secondary effect of triggering a slope failure. The unluckiest person was somewhere in the USA who died as a result of a 2.0 mag quake in 1986. To put this in context there are approx 1.5 million quakes each year mag 5.0 or less, so the chances of being adversely affected are slim to none. Thus in the Ranong example 5 houses receive limited damage. So it's hardly a case of being heartless and the ironic thing is that if you read the OP the threat posed by flooding and associated slope failures is far more acute in this area. So focus on that as a the true hazard rather than fretting about minor quakes.

Perhaps reading my post and understanding the region and past events may help.

If people are worried when the earth moves in an area that rarely has earthquakes and suffered at the hands of an earthquake induced Tsunami, I'd say that's perfectly natural. I'd also say that someone expressing thanks that the earthquake wasn't larger out of concern for friends and family there is perfectly natural.

Quite what your point is I'm not sure, but it's not like there was a massive overreaction to this quake. Just a knee jerk reaction to the OP and the sentiments expressed by others.

And who would teach him...there are no spare teachers

That's kind of the point. Higher quality vocational training is what Thai industry is crying out for... but they (governments) do not provide what's needed.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

I don't doubt that but I do doubt that the current issues Thailand faces are purely as a result of the latest Thai Government's incompetence and not a combined effort by a long string of equally corrupt and incompetent Governments.

I also doubt that continual childish finger pointing is beneficial to anyone, least of all the people of Thailand, but let's face it they come a distant second in favour of smearing s**t on the faces of opposing MPs.

It is blatantly ridiculous to berate the current Government for the fact that there isn't a higher number of better trained vocational teachers - how long have they been in office? Is there any single issue that Thailand faces that any previous administrations are responsible for?

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

Fortunently I don't think it will get that far, as the majority of Thais are fairly apathetic to the hold political issue and have far more important day to day family and work issues to deal with.

....

are you sure for the thais I know this is a fairly common topic:to the point where reds dont sociaslise with yellows etc I wouldn't call the majority of thais politically apathetic nowadays....I think this is a misjudgement....

I would say the majority of people not just Thais are politically apathetic. Specific to Thailand the relevance of which party the Hi-So who is ripping them all off owes allegiance to pales into insignificance when compared to putting food on the table...

Take a look at figures for US General election turnout rates historically, the majority of the eligible voters don't even vote; that is a good indication of how politically apathetic people are!

When talking about election majorities we are actually talking about the majority of a minority of the population... in the US we've seen as little as 40% of eligible voters actually vote in a General election, so a majority could be as low as 20% of the eligible voting population.

Now take out all of those non-eligible to vote and we're seeing the next Government of the world's largest superpower being decided on by less than 1/5 th of the actual population...

I wonder how many Thais would actually vote if it wasn't "compulsory" or if the much publicised "vote incentive schemes" were removed?

"Ovec........ had earlier submitted a budget request for the hiring of teachers and to provide students with equipment, but was refused."

Not a huge amount of money, but it's all been budgeted for more important things, such as tablets for 6yo, rice subsidies, taxi credit cards, and all the other failing populist schemes.

How much money had Ovec previously requested or is it perhaps that you don't even know and are purely using this thread, as you do each and every news thread on TV, as a platform to launch your own personal attack on anything red/ Thaksin related ad nauseum?

Is anyone actually using this Thai Expat TV service mentioned earlier in this thread by what appeared to be people trying to promote this service?

Having checked the website out it appears to be a valid IPTV streaming solution with decent UK content and a fairly low monthly subscription but does it actually work/ is it legal?

I'm fed up paying Truevisions through the nose for their "services"; what sort of company hands out HD PVRs with no built in PVR and naff all HD content?! Then makes you shell out extra monthly fees to record once you've purchased your own HDD... that's right, they expect you to pay monthly fees for the privilege of recording content to your own HDD!!!

Extra monthly fees for HD... 3x flipping channels, sports and HBO content already exist in SD and the 3rd channel is some sort of ridiculous parody of TV... are you joking?

It's about time someone offered a suitable alternative to ex pats in Thailand, is Thai Expat TV a potential solution? Only real experiences please.

Good thing it wasn't a stronger quake, got family close to Ranong at Phato, there are alot of older looking building in Ranong, I would hate to see the after effects of a 5.0 or stronger.

Why?

"It is estimated that around 500,000 earthquakes occur each year, detectable with current instrumentation. About 100,000 of these can be felt.^[28][29] Minor earthquakes occur nearly constantly around the world in places like California and Alaska in the U.S., as well as in Mexico, Guatemala, Chile, Peru, Indonesia, Iran, Pakistan, the Azores in Portugal, Turkey, New Zealand, Greece, Italy, and Japan, but earthquakes can occur almost anywhere, including New York City, London, and Australia.^[30] Larger earthquakes occur less frequently, the relationship being exponential; for example, roughly ten times as many earthquakes larger than magnitude 4 occur in a particular time period than earthquakes larger than magnitude 5. In the (low seismicity) United Kingdom, for example, it has been calculated that the average recurrences are: an earthquake of 3.7–4.6 every year, an earthquake of 4.7–5.5 every 10 years, and an earthquake of 5.6 or larger every 100 years.^"

^{http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Earthquake}

Even a 5.0 is negligible....

Don't you have family in the UK or US or Aus or wherever who experience 5s more frequently.

This article is just bamboo, and your expressed concern is unecessary!

-mel.

Please forgive me if I take the conclusions you draw from your highly detailed seismological studies with a pinch of salt. I prefer to draw on a number of sources from scientists that have actually made a career out of the scientific study of these events. This group of individuals are called seismologists.

Much as when I need work on my car doing I will trust in a mechanic, when I want an evaluation of seismic activity I rely on seismologists, not TV posters with too much time on their hands and ready access to Wikipedia...