Ferangled

TABLE 16.2 NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL TOURIST ARRIVALS OF TOP TEN

TO THAILAND BY COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE: 2007

1,551,959 Malaysia

1,248,700 Japan

1,075,516 Korea

1,003,141 China

799,100 Singapore

746,422 United Kingdom

638,126 Australia

623,638 U.S.A.

537,200 Germany

521,062 Laos

As close as I can find at the moment, no statistics for Nigeria or Ghana and this is 2007 not 2009. I know this leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accurate evaluation of statistics; we'd really need dates of convictions to compare against arrivals, figures for the appropriate years etc but the trend is fairly clear here; certain nationalities just seem to be more disposed to crime than others.

Note that Nigeria, Ghana, Taiwan & Vietnam appear on the top ten list of dubious honour but are not amongst the top ten in arrivals...

Clearly there are many more factors to consider; The Burmese for example are regularly treated as sub human in Thailand and seem to be devoid of basic human rights even if living and working here legally. It doesn't surprise me that they top the list of foreign nationals in prison; they barely need to fart to be convicted of a crime in Thailand but serve as useful cheap labour to prevent locals having to engage in hard manual labour...

Prejudice is everywhere. Some people would even seriously suggest that 65% of crime in Thailand is committed by westerners. I guess if 65% of the prison population is Western, that could be some evidence. Not sure if that is true, tho.

TOP 10 OF FOREIGN NATIONALS IN THAI PRISONS (2009)

1. Myanmar (3,787)

2. Lao (1,994)

3. Cambodia (1,445)

4. Malaysia (325)

5. China (252)

6. Singapore (115)

7. Nigeria (94)

8. Taiwan (91)

9. Vietnam (85)

10. Ghana (65)

1st November 2011: Prison Population – 252,044 (men 215,920 and women 35,124).

Interesting to note that every country listed in this "top ten" bar Nigeria and Ghana are countries in very close proximity to Thailand... does anyone have figures for visa numbers granted for these same nationalities during the same year?

The way most Thai people speaks never seize to amaze me,they speak as if Thais are not in foreign countries committing different crimes,does that make all Thai bad? NO? In this 21st century,so long as your country has Embassy in a country means they want citizens of that country to come to their country,if not your country will not have Embassy in that country that gives them VISA.

Nigerians and Africans are NOT commiting the kind of Crimes been commited in our Country by Farangs,europeans,american,australians,Russians,some africans may commit 2% of crime,but westerners are commiting 65% of crimes in our Beloved Thailand yet we intend to over look them,because we think they are helping our economy,even when a 75 year old man is having sex with our Thai daughter who is 18,we accept this as normal.

I went to Russia, i met so many Thai Prostitutes i was ashamed to identify myself as Thai Citizen,yet Russians do not call all Thais prostitutes, the same goes to any nation, there are bad and good people in all countries, let us use our intelligent when speaking,and not Generalise a country as BAD due to some few who did wrong.

Most of us think Nigeria is a poor nation,not knowing they are Richer than Thailand in everywhere,you may then ask why are they here,they answer is why are Americans,and europeans Here??? Who are also better than Us???

What is the percentage (including non passport/non visa holders) of Africans among the entire foreign population? What is the percentage of African prisoners among Africans in Thailand? Westerners committing 65% of crimes in Thailand? I think you`re following the blinkered official BS line of Thai good, farang bad. Thailand is no different from any other country in that most of the criminals are home grown and most of those crimes are committed by nationals of Thailand. That`s not racist to say so by the way.

I am only replying base on how some people thinks only Africans in Thailand are commiting crime,other nationals are doing same too, so we should not generalise a continent or and country as Bad simply because of few bad ones tghat came from them.

Sorry but I really don't think anyone has suggested that, clearly Thais commit more crime in Thailand than any other nationality, as is the case with virtually every country the world over; their own citizens are responsible for more domestic crime than any foreigners. The interesting point is as a percentage of any nationality in any given country, what nationalities are most disposed to crime?

The way most Thai people speaks never seize to amaze me,they speak as if Thais are not in foreign countries committing different crimes,does that make all Thai bad? NO? In this 21st century,so long as your country has Embassy in a country means they want citizens of that country to come to their country,if not your country will not have Embassy in that country that gives them VISA.

Nigerians and Africans are NOT commiting the kind of Crimes been commited in our Country by Farangs,europeans,american,australians,Russians,some africans may commit 2% of crime,but westerners are commiting 65% of crimes in our Beloved Thailand yet we intend to over look them,because we think they are helping our economy,even when a 75 year old man is having sex with our Thai daughter who is 18,we accept this as normal.

I went to Russia, i met so many Thai Prostitutes i was ashamed to identify myself as Thai Citizen,yet Russians do not call all Thais prostitutes, the same goes to any nation, there are bad and good people in all countries, let us use our intelligent when speaking,and not Generalise a country as BAD due to some few who did wrong.

Most of us think Nigeria is a poor nation,not knowing they are Richer than Thailand in everywhere,you may then ask why are they here,they answer is why are Americans,and europeans Here??? Who are also better than Us???

I'm afraid you seem a little mixed up and your post begs a response.

I wonder how many Russians are ashamed to identify themselves as Russian citizens in Thailand? There seem to be a fair number of Russian girls "working" here but most Russians I come across seem fairly proud of their nationality, certainly not apologetic.

You fail to recognise that there are far more Thai girls "working" in Thailand than any foreign lands, I would have thought you'd feel more ashamed by the prolific prostitution in your own country than others, after all this is where they are learning the tricks of their trade.

As for your rant about every nationality other than Africans or Thais being responsible for crime in Thailand you clearly are deluded; if you're talking about prostitution, more Thai men use working girls in Thailand than any foreign nationality. As for your "statistics", well let's face it you're talking complete BS and you haven't even tried to back up your wildly inaccurate claims.

I'm sorry but it's an inconvenient truth that Nigerians living abroad have a very bad reputation for involvement with illegal activities; probably down to a mix of economic and social factors. There are 3 threads running currently about Nigerians on drug charges in Thailand; it would be interesting to know exactly how many Nigerians living in Thailand have valid work permits compared to say English or Americans, and then compare that with the numbers charged with crimes...

If recent events are any indication, I'd hazard a guess that there are actually more Nigerians facing charges here than there are with valid work permits. While I'm sure there are a fair number of Yanks and Brits facing charges here, I'll bet that number pales into insignificance compared to the number here working legally, paying taxes and contributing to Thai society...

I am surprised his lawyers have not tried to get the US to charge him and get him extradited there ... but not sure even with the victim being a serviceman that the US could hold any jurisdiction.

I thought the fact he allegedly murdered a US citizen gives them jurisdiction worldwide

The US doesn't want garbage like him, they have enough of their own waiting inline

That's right; its up to the US to decide. But if we want someone, you better believe we will get them no matter what "sovereign" country the are in. Just ask Mr. Bout for example.

How do you like them apples?

Between 1 January 2004 and 31 December 2011, the US made 134 requests for extradition to the UK authorities and 75 people were successfully sent to America for trial.

The UK made 57 extradition requests to the US and 40 people were successfully extradited.

To the best of our knowledge, British courts have refused to extradite seven people since 2004 but the Americans have never turned down a request from Britain.

"If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand"

I think this is the point many are missing here, past history shows very little success. Even the extradition of Thai nationals are clearly not straight forward...

"Thailand prosecutors in UK for ex-PM Thaksin extradition talks"

Don't recall that working out too well... however this plays out let's hope that the responsible party gets what's coming one way or another.

Yes, but there wasn't an extradition treaty for most all of those others.

There appears to be one now, and partly inpsired by the Thaksin debacle.

So, 'no one went before', is no longer a valid argument, since a frame work for this is now in place.

Some how I really don't think the Home Office wants this violent juice head walking the streets of England either; like a ticking bomb. Because if he 'snaps' again after not getting sent back for the same... it will be lots of facial egg to go around.

Quite, there's plenty of them on the streets already, both back in the UK and here.

I thought that there had been an extradition treaty for quite a while though...

Treaty of Extradition between Thailand and Great Britain.

Signed Bangkok on 4th March 1911

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/Treaty-Thailand-and-Great-Britain.html

I'm sure either way this case will set a legal precedent for future extraditions but I don't believe the death penalty will be the only hurdle. Defense lawyers tend to have quite a few tricks up their sleeves and I'm sure the "inhumane conditions in Thai jails card" will be played, whether successful or not we'll have to wait and see...

I'd like to think whether extradited or not, justice will be served. Personally, contrary to the beliefs of many on here, I actually think that justice is far more likely to be served in the UK (providing the evidence is sufficient); I've seen far too many cases in Thailand just disappear under the carpet. The corruption that exists here tends to favor those capable of applying monetary incentives... I'd hope that this case was high profile enough that this wouldn't be the case but again, history here would suggest that's not necessarily an issue...

"If his appeal is unsuccessful, Aldhouse will be the first British citizen ever extradited to face trial in Thailand"

I think this is the point many are missing here, past history shows very little success. Even the extradition of Thai nationals are clearly not straight forward...

"Thailand prosecutors in UK for ex-PM Thaksin extradition talks"

Don't recall that working out too well... however this plays out let's hope that the responsible party gets what's coming one way or another.

@Brit 1984

Yes you are right; prison inmates are a nice bunch of guys/girls and we should spend even more taxes on making sure they are comfortable (because tax is so low these days)

Maybe we should stop sending money to all them less deserving starving children in Africa and spend it on new gym equipment and bigger televisions for the prison population

Come on!... while a few prison inmates might be more silly than evil, it is crazy to spend time worrying about the level of comfort felt by the prison population as a whole, given the huge number of victims they as a group have left in their wake

Never mind, the bigger problems facing the world today...

Yes, that was my point, obviously....have you even read the OP?

There are clearly some deeply disturbed individuals that require locking up for the safety of others if not themselves, but there's also a considerable amount of decent people that have simply made mistakes, crossed the wrong people or been jailed for insignificant offences. There but for the grace of God go all of us. I see no reason why these people should be treated inhumanely, this is the 21st century.

It's fairly clear from your post that you are not talking about Thai prisons here and haven't visited any. You may associate pumping weights and watching big screens with some US prison shows but I can assure you that most Thai and other developing nations don't offer the same level of "home comforts" as you've seen on the Discovery channel... and please save me the "starving African children" BS, it does nothing to validate your point, and is frankly in bad taste.

"The extradition shall not take place unless the evidence be found sufficient according to the laws of the State

applied to, either to justify the committal of the prisoner for trial, in case the crime had been committed in

the territory of the said State..."

The above quote is from Section 11 of:

TREATY BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SIAM RESPECTING THE

EXTRADITION OF FUGITIVE CRIMINALS.

Sign at Bangkok, March 4, 1911.

(Ratifications exchanged at London, August 1, 1911.)

It's quite probable the Thai authorities have little or no evidence that would stand up in a UK court of law on a charge of murder (assuming the charges as laid are appropriate to the offense and can be prosecuted with a high probability of conviction) and therefore the subject/accused of extradition would not be compelled to be extradited. But of course, falsification of documents is pretty standard in TH. So, wait and see the outcome of the accused's appeal.

There are literally dozens of witnesses. CCTV footage of him in the initial fight, CCTV footage of him robbing the knives from the 7-11 and CCTV footage of him in the hotel where he stabbed the Marine. I am pretty sure even the most liberal of courts would call this enough evidence to bring the man to trial. Why would you make a comment about the Thais falsifying documents? It is all but a gurantee that this extradition is being driven by the US not the Thai government. I am not sure if you remember this initial reporting of this case, but it was hardly a quiet crime. This guy went on a drunken drug addled rampage through the streets wielding knives covered in blood, the murder was only the most heinous of his crimes that evening.

Why is hating Thailand such a passion of people who post on this board? If you are that unhappy in Thailand why do you stay?

I think some people need to calm down and gain some sort of sense of perspective here; where in the post you are replying to is there a single indication that the poster "hates Thailand with a passion" or is in anyway "unhappy in Thailand"?

You seem to take any suggestion that this extradition is likely not to be as straight forward as reported as some sort of endorsement of the crime; I don't believe anyone supports what has happened and doesn't want to see justice served on those responsible. The point in question is how this will play out and whether an extradition to Thailand would actually result in the victims killer to being brought to justice.

It's one of the few posts that hasn't been an overly emotional rant about how tough US marines are or how terrible this Lee bloke is... as someone else pointed out, however guilty this guy appears to be he is innocent until proven guilty. On the face of it, it seems pretty obvious that he is guilty and there's certainly enough evidence to bring the case as he's being detained at Her Majesty's pleasure currently but many a case that's fairly clear cut gets thrown out of court due to poor policing and tainted evidence.

Evidence as reported by media and evidence that will stand up in a court of law are two very different things, and like it or not, the Thai police do not have a great track record when it comes to criminal investigation. Out of every 100 crimes that get reported by the media here, exactly how many are followed up with arrests and convictions?

It's a very sad story and unfortunately whatever happens to the responsible party, the damage has already been done. I truly hope there is some sort of justice served for the sake of the victims family and friends.

so these days, they hire ex-cons to be journalists.... loooooooooool

God forbid hiring an ex-con....? Whatever next?! A black man for President, a woman as PM?!

Many brilliant journalists are "ex-cons" having spent time behind bars at some point or other chasing down sensitive stories or trying to expose corruption of those in power.

Pretty irrelevant really given this guy isn't a journalist, he's the author of a single book, which I guess he'd struggled to have written without being an ex-con, given the subject matter...

Maybe. However, if an ex-con is going to write a book and try and make a mint out of his/her experience, then that isn't exactly fair justice in the end, is it? More like, 'yes, get help with a book and experiences, even go so far as to get it published, but have the decency to take away any royalties, and other financial benefits, and have them given to children in need and battered wives..... for sake of their needs, and prevention of future family crime from said selves and future generations.'

-mel.

It has nothing to do with "fair justice" - the very notion of being an EX-con, note the deliberate emphasis on EX, is that said person has already served their sentence.

What you are effectively saying is that if someone makes a mistake they should have to pay for that mistake for the rest of their life and be considered sub-human. Ridiculous stuff, being human means making mistakes and learning from them. I'm afraid there would be no progress if everyone was so quick to condemn others.

No-one is forced to buy these novels, it's totally at the discretion of the consumers. You fail to recognize that people with real life experiences, positive and negative, make for the very best teachers, being able to teach from experience with conviction rather than pontificate about a life they know so very little about because they've been so sheltered and never experienced it first hand.

I guess all ex-cons should regularly flog themselves, and offer up their bodies as doormats to those as squeaky clean and perfect as you...

Bang Kwang and its ilk may not be nice places, but then again they aren't supposed to be. Prisons in some countries are rather like country clubs.

As the old saying goes "If you can't do the time...........etc"

I find this sort of view totally naive and medieval in outlook. How can we expect anyone to be integrated back into society if they are subject to criminality in prison? Take a troubled individual and send them to a breeding ground for vice and violence... great idea Einstein!

Most conveniently ignore the fact that the vast majority of people in jail are in for non violent crimes - failure to pay taxes, driving without a license etc. Most Governments would like us to believe that prisons are full of murderers, rapists and armed robbers but the facts are very different; such inmates make up a very small fraction of the total number of convicts.

One particular case will always stick in my mind - UK, painter & decorator supporting a family of 5 single handed, lost his license for speeding, continued to drive as vital to his work, caught driving without a license or insurance - 2 years in jail. His children watched in tears as he was lead away, then were promptly taken into care.

Next case - Grievous Bodily Harm, community service and a small fine, man left court laughing his head off and threatening to "do him in properly next time".

Next case - Cultivation of marijuana with intent to supply - community service and a small fine, man left court in his BMW M3 with a big smile on his face, smoking a large hand rolled "cigarette".

That is the reality of jails, they aren't filled with evil, violent cons, they're full of quite normal people who've either been unfortunate or stupid. Sadly by the time they leave they will probably have picked up a few nasty habits to bring back to society...

This painter could have sat on his arse living of benefits in a council house but instead got out there and tried to earn an honest living. He made a mistake, no one was hurt, he didn't profit from it, yet his and his families life were ruined as a result of it.

I detest those so quick to judge based on false preconceptions. If you really believe that jails should be nasty places akin to medieval dungeons with widespread torture and rape, you need locking up yourself; that sort of perverted view is, in my opinion, the real danger to society. It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what modern society is and should be.

Jail should be about education, rehabilitation and deprivation of freedom, no more and no less.

In the examples you have given it does seem ludicrous that the painter would get 2 years.

Often people who can afford good legal representation can avoid jail time. Convincing liars are also advantaged.

Drug users and the marginalised of society are also over represented in society.

Many people who go to jail come out far more knowledgeable criminals than when they went in, having learned the tricks of the trade and built up contacts. Coming outside and trying to find a job must be very difficult.

I hope I never end up in prison. One mistake, one drikn too many, taxes avoided. It can happen to anyone.

I think you hit the nail on the head "It can happen to anyone".

This notion that all ex-cons are dangerous criminals is absurd and perpetuates this circle of crime, as does this notion that prison should simply be a place of absolute punishment and torture; it's absurd.

It just creates a breeding ground for more criminals who having left the system can't get employment and will fall straight back into crime as a necessity of survival.

I can understand this sentiment in say the 1100s but in the 21st century? Really?

so these days, they hire ex-cons to be journalists.... loooooooooool

God forbid hiring an ex-con....? Whatever next?! A black man for President, a woman as PM?!

Many brilliant journalists are "ex-cons" having spent time behind bars at some point or other chasing down sensitive stories or trying to expose corruption of those in power.

Pretty irrelevant really given this guy isn't a journalist, he's the author of a single book, which I guess he'd struggled to have written without being an ex-con, given the subject matter...

"...it's simply sensationalist journalism...": because you're the expert. Didn't you JUST say something about "sweeping generalizations"?! You're a funny one. Who the h#ll is a bigot?! You can't possible have been here for very long. You couldn't know the first thing about how things are done here. But you do seem to know a lot about how things are done in Britain.

http://www.independe...an-6297667.html

He could have picked up any number of things in Britain.

Yes it is sensationalist journalism and no, it's not a Thai conspiracy to get the ferang. Saying it's sensationalist journalism is not a sweeping generalization; I am referring to a headline, one, singular headline! How can that possibly be a sweeping statement?!

These are sweeping generalizations - "Asian peoples are morally superior to Westerners" "No true Taiwanese man would have done such things".

"Chow Hok Kuen" A classic British name if ever I heard one...! Was it really necessary to have Brit in the headline?

I am sure he technically is British but it seems clear that this fascination with black magic and gold leafing unborn babies is not an inherently British pass time and I'd suggest comes from the same national roots as his name not his adopted nationality...

You haven't been here long enough. Live here for years and you "learn" that Asian peoples are morally superior to Westerners. No true Taiwanese man would have done such things. You notice that the article talks about the dealer of these fetuses is also Taiwanese? There doesn't seem to be much interest in apprehending him. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Thailand's attitude is directed towards not endangering any relations with Taiwan, an important trade partner.

Sorry, I haven't been in Thailand long enough for what exactly? To become another paranoid bigot? Save your sweeping generalizations for someone that cares.

This isn't a Thai national conspiracy to defer any possible negative feeling about the Taiwanese to the British, it's simply sensationalist journalism, using Brit in the headline promotes more interest from the English speaking/ reading audience.

You don't have to have lived here at all to realize that Chow Hok Kuen is not a common British name and the practice of gold leafing unborn babies and black magic is not something he has picked up in Britain.

Why the need to fit everyone into neat little racial boxes? There is no correct answer, this is down to each individual's beliefs, there is no hard and fast rule.

Mexico is a real melting pot of different nationalities and racial history, a mix of the indigenous people, Hispanic and Latino... are they racially white?

Well according to US consensus less than half of American Mexicans consider themselves to be racially white, most identify themselves as race "other", mainly Mestivo/ mixed.

I have a great many Mexican friends and I can assure you that not one of them would consider themselves "white"... they are proud to be simply Mexican and the very word Mestivo puts no importance on the origins of their racial mix, they are simply of mixed race.

Really doesn't matter all that much what they consider themselves to be, here in Thailand they are farang, And that was the origin of the discussion.

We're going off topic though with this.

Sorry, it was relevant to the post I was replying to but I see you've deleted that and the previous quotes from my post... making it seem like I am responsible taking this off topic in context to the OP! Well played!

Actually the entire discussion seemed totally irrelevant to the OP, I just felt obliged to correct the point of views stated as fact that are clearly wrong eg. Mexicans are white, Russians are Asians... My apologies, please get back to your discussion.

This probably comes at no surprise, being this is Thailand, but I am really confused here. Let's see, we have Russians, Mexicans, Thai's, Malaysians, what no white falangs? This can't be right.

So your saying Russians and Mexicans are Asian or black? Got to be one of those two if not white.

Mexicans are Hispanics and I always thought Russia was East Asia.. maybe I'm wrong.. Eurasians perhaps?

Mexicans/Hispanics are racially white, "Hispanic" is an ethnicity. Russians are white.

Why the need to fit everyone into neat little racial boxes? There is no correct answer, this is down to each individual's beliefs, there is no hard and fast rule.

Mexico is a real melting pot of different nationalities and racial history, a mix of the indigenous people, Hispanic and Latino... are they racially white?

Well according to US consensus less than half of American Mexicans consider themselves to be racially white, most identify themselves as race "other", mainly Mestivo/ mixed.

I have a great many Mexican friends and I can assure you that not one of them would consider themselves "white"... they are proud to be simply Mexican and the very word Mestivo puts no importance on the origins of their racial mix, they are simply of mixed race.

Since the darkened windows make it impossible for anyone to see inside most of the cars on the road, how do they plan to enforce this law? They tried before, and failed - for precisely this reason,

And if I remember well, the very dark tint was actually made illegal about 10 years ago after casing out and robbing a bank using a car with completely blacked out windows which prevented the security cameras from seeing into the car. It had nothing to do with road safety.

I see the ban has really been enforced with success, I never see any vehicles in Thailand with completely blacked out windows... until I wake up, open my eyes and walk outside that is!

I always did think those aftermarket DVD players were madness. I nearly got sideswiped last week overtaking some moron in a pickup who wandered over the white line of a dual carriageway because he was watching the TV. At the risk of being a "Thai knocker" you definitely need both eyes on the road driving in LOS. At least with the factory fitted ones you can't watch them from the front while the vehicle is in gear. As it should be.

I bought a Isuzu Cab 4 with a Kenwood originally installed that not only can I see behind me in reverse but I can watch music videos and DVD's if I choose while I am motoring around. I do not choose.

My friends MU- 7 with the Kenwood i -genie system will certainly not let the front seat passengers watch anything. As soon as the vehicle is put in gear the front screen goes blank.

That's probably an unintentional fault rather than an intended feature!

... you "have eaten the stuff for years and suffered none of those effects" and that's clearly a better indication of any long term health effects than any scientific analysis of the subject.

The irony of that statement apparently escapes you and says a whole lot about the world we live in today..

TH

I thought that was fairly obviously deliberate irony from the content and context of the post...

They could give away their soup for free, I would not touch it. I'd rather find me some junkfood without MSG.

There is a brand of instant noodles that I occasionally buy from Central Supermarket (I think it is Coca, in reddish packaging)...it's MSG free and no trans fat.

What is this thing about msg? My wife and her family use it all the time. They nor I have any ill effects. All asians in general use it. I haven't heard about any ill effects.

I agree that if food is prepared correctly it is not needed and even then, a tiny anount of sugar will do the same thing but being completely paranoid of a natural substance is ridiculous.

Why consume something of no dietary value if there is even the slightest chance of negative effect on your health? If you really haven't heard of any ill effects you must have been living life in an isolated bubble....

"Some misinformation that’s become increasingly promoted is that MSG is naturally found in food and therefore it is safe. While it is true that there are minute levels of unprocessed glutamate found in some foods, this is irrelevant when considering the safety of MSG. Just because Cocaine is naturally occurring in the Coca leaf, doesn’t mean processed raw cocaine is safe. The beautiful poppy flower is relatively harmless, yet it’s the source of opium, heroin, and many harmful and addictive opiates such as morphine andcodeine. Tobacco is a harmless plant that grows in nature, yet when smoked or chewed it can cause cancer. Just because glutamates are found to be naturally occurring in small quantities doesn’t make them safe."

Older members may recall the resistance by the tobacco industry and their beneficiaries to admitting the negative effects of tobacco:

"In the early days of tobacco product promotion, all those involved in the tobacco industry assured the public that tobacco consumption would not have an adverse impact on health. The manufacturers, advertisers, and the tobacco lobby had much at stake. Today’s equivalent to tobacco is MSG. So, it’s not surprising that there is an MSG alliance of organizations attempting to ensure the ongoing sale and profitability of MSG distribution. Simply known as, The Glutamate Association, the front organization for promoting and defending MSG sales is shrouded behind a cloak of secrecy."

No similarities at all... nothing to see here, move along...

Could always recommend not putting in the MSG, but actually there is no evidence of MSG having a negative impact on the body.

Instead of putting in the palm oil, put in a beer Chang export..... much healthier.

-mel.

Sorry but are you being sarcastic, it's sometimes difficult to tell on here?! No evidence of MSG having a negative effect on the body?! I guess that depends who you believe...

U.S. Government Food Safety Warning. The transport of MSG is controlled by the Bioterrorism Act of 2002. [PDF source] Because there is so much concern about MSG, the FDA commissioned a study be conducted by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB). The study resulted in a 350 page report completed on 31 July 1995 [this report mysteriously deleted from public archives]. The research determined that MSG consumption can result in the following side-effects:

• burning sensation in the back of the neck, forearms and chest
  
• numbness in the back of the neck, radiating to the arms and back
  
• tingling, warmth and weakness in the face, temples, upper back, neck and arms
  
• facial pressure or tightness
  
• chest pain
  
• headache
  
• nausea
  
• rapid heartbeat
  
• bronchospasm (difficulty breathing) in MSG-intolerant people with asthma
  
• drowsiness
  
• weakness
  

Lack of Government Regulation. Despite numerous findings by government agencies and health institutions, the FDA refuses to take any action that would prohibit the use of MSG. As with many uncontrolled substances, it all comes down to money. The sale of Monosodium Glutamate is big business. Despite the health hazards, annual worldwide demand is about 1.1 million tons. So, it’s unlikely that any government agency will limit the use of MSG. In such circumstances, it is up to consumers to become informed to protect themselves.

The article goes on to say:

Dr. Olney’s studies on various species of test animals disclosed that MSG, when fed in doses similar to those found in human diets, destroys hypothalamic neurons. This type of hypothalamic damage produces a particular syndrome in animals which caused them to be short in stature, obese, and to have reproductive problems. … Recognizing the immediate danger to the public, especially to the unborn child, Dr. Olney and others testified before Congress concerning these dangers. As a result of their vigilance, MSG was voluntarily removed from baby foods in 1969. But no one had warned pregnant women of the danger to their developing babies caused by the MSG found within their own food. This danger would exist if the glutamate from the mother’s blood entered the blood of their unborn baby. In 1974, Dr. Olney demonstrated that MSG, when fed to pregnant Rhesus monkeys, could cause brain damage to their offspring. Other researchers found similar results when pregnant rats were fed MSG.”

http://www.resources...m/docs/item1225

If you OD on it I can see this but as far as I can tell you have just given us another damned statistic to read. I have eaten the stuff for years and suffered nonte of those effects.

If you are happy consuming a substance that has absolutely nothing worthwhile to contribute to your diet but has been linked with a number of serious health issues including brain damage and stunted growth in children born to mothers on MSG diets, please go ahead. Sorry to burden your brain with yet more "damned statistics"....

You seem to miss the fact this article is based on scientific study, didn't actually list any statistics, just demonstrated a few worrying facts about MSG but I digress, ignore the independent scientists, don't strain yourself by trying to weigh the evidence and come up with your own informed opinion... you "have eaten the stuff for years and suffered none of those effects" and that's clearly a better indication of any long term health effects than any scientific analysis of the subject.

Could always recommend not putting in the MSG, but actually there is no evidence of MSG having a negative impact on the body.

Instead of putting in the palm oil, put in a beer Chang export..... much healthier.

-mel.

Sorry but are you being sarcastic, it's sometimes difficult to tell on here?! No evidence of MSG having a negative effect on the body?! I guess that depends who you believe...

U.S. Government Food Safety Warning. The transport of MSG is controlled by the Bioterrorism Act of 2002. [PDF source] Because there is so much concern about MSG, the FDA commissioned a study be conducted by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB). The study resulted in a 350 page report completed on 31 July 1995 [this report mysteriously deleted from public archives]. The research determined that MSG consumption can result in the following side-effects:

• burning sensation in the back of the neck, forearms and chest
  
• numbness in the back of the neck, radiating to the arms and back
  
• tingling, warmth and weakness in the face, temples, upper back, neck and arms
  
• facial pressure or tightness
  
• chest pain
  
• headache
  
• nausea
  
• rapid heartbeat
  
• bronchospasm (difficulty breathing) in MSG-intolerant people with asthma
  
• drowsiness
  
• weakness
  

Lack of Government Regulation. Despite numerous findings by government agencies and health institutions, the FDA refuses to take any action that would prohibit the use of MSG. As with many uncontrolled substances, it all comes down to money. The sale of Monosodium Glutamate is big business. Despite the health hazards, annual worldwide demand is about 1.1 million tons. So, it’s unlikely that any government agency will limit the use of MSG. In such circumstances, it is up to consumers to become informed to protect themselves.

The article goes on to say:

Dr. Olney’s studies on various species of test animals disclosed that MSG, when fed in doses similar to those found in human diets, destroys hypothalamic neurons. This type of hypothalamic damage produces a particular syndrome in animals which caused them to be short in stature, obese, and to have reproductive problems. … Recognizing the immediate danger to the public, especially to the unborn child, Dr. Olney and others testified before Congress concerning these dangers. As a result of their vigilance, MSG was voluntarily removed from baby foods in 1969. But no one had warned pregnant women of the danger to their developing babies caused by the MSG found within their own food. This danger would exist if the glutamate from the mother’s blood entered the blood of their unborn baby. In 1974, Dr. Olney demonstrated that MSG, when fed to pregnant Rhesus monkeys, could cause brain damage to their offspring. Other researchers found similar results when pregnant rats were fed MSG.”

http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item1225

I'm sure temporary suspension from duty could also be described as a paid holiday... awesome stuff, let's really crack down on these corrupt policeman by punishing them to the fullest extent of the law. Armed robbery? Send them on a few weeks paid leave... that'll teach them!