Ferangled

I couldn't quite tell how she was wearing her purse strap from that clip. Was it slung over one shoulder, or did she have it slung across her chest? Does that make a difference for these purse snatchers?

To women who are considering visiting Phuket. Think twice. If you're compelled to go there, consider walking with one or more men. I'd suggest carrying mace (spray), but I don't think it's sold in Thailand. You may also carry a knife, as it's not illegal, but then, of course you're adding a whole dimension to what might ensue. Even so, it would be cool to read a few stories of thugs being stabbed while in the act.

There's also a loud high-pitched security device, the size of a mobile phone, called 'ELERT' which used to be available, but is no longer made. It was an excellent device for spooking would-be thieves. There's one fellow in Utah who has some for sale, about $40 each. Why they're not fabricated and sold in the marketplace anymore, I don't know. There's a lesser device which just makes a high pitched sound (it's not movement sensitive like the ELERT), which is probably available in some places.

Why stop there? Women, stay home it's dangerous out there, you run the risk of being mugged everywhere from London to Paris to New York to Phuket...

Please ignore this advice, don't arm yourselves, follow Keyser Soze's common sense advice and if someone tries to take your bag, smile and let them have it. If you carry/ pull a knife the chances are you will end up getting stabbed with your own blade. That is the very worst thing that anyone could do.

These types of incident happen the world over, they are rare and isolated, don't let it cloud your judgement and don't live in fear over what could happen. Driving in Thailand poses a far higher risk of personal injury than that of any violent crime, as it does in most countries.

Manin Surat I totally agree with you.

Catweazle please start to me, Im living 10 years in Ao Nang near Krab

and I only hear those stories about friends of friends, but never the friend of the friend shows up to confirm.

Perhaps having been dragged down the street they were recovering in hospital?

I have lived in Phuket for many years, never been victim of any crime, neither have any of my friends. How relevant is that when considering these events?

Crime clearly does happen here but perhaps it's not as widespread as certain people that take such events as an opportunity to wildly generalise about an area and tout others would have people believe...

Sixth Senses resort - they see dead people?

Sorry, Six Senses, and yes I have it on good authority that due to the terrific numbers of people topping themselves and being topped in Phuket daily, Pi are now walking Naka Yai at night, terrifying locals, bemoaning the ills of the island and ushering people east towards Krabi...

EDIT : Ok, actually, know what? I'm bored of the "my favourite city is better than your favourite city in Thailand" back and forth game this is becoming. Krabi's quiet. It's not a lie. I've been to both places. I know the reality. I'll leave forum readers and the public to make up their own minds.

Let's get back on topic and relate to the OP in someway. I'll admit I've helped bring it off topic. I should know better.

You're the one that has hijacked this thread to do just that and it's in terrible taste. If you even tried to present an unbiased view no one would object but you clearly have an agenda, very little knowledge of Phuket and it seems very little knowledge of the tourist town you have just bought a house in.

To be honest, as a falang woman considering visiting Phuket in November, I did watch it. Not to be disrespectful of the women or their families, but to see what I need to be watching out for. I couldn't quite tell how she was wearing her purse strap from that clip. Was it slung over one shoulder, or did she have it slung across her chest? Does that make a difference for these purse snatchers?

I don't think you're being disrespectful. It was aired on Australian TV, someone mentioned in this thread (perhaps in an edited form, I don't know.) Also another person mentioned that if leads came from the CCTV and from a member of the public, the fact it was publicly aired could have led to the arrests.

If you're genuinely worried and you did say considering, perhaps look to Krabi - Ao Nang and Koh Lanta specifically - instead. It's my second home away from Surat Thani and it's so pretty and calm. They have the full range of budget, mid and high-end resorts and there's an never ending array of things to do there. A lot of the day tours out of Phuket are also visitied by tourists in the Krabi area too. Phi Phi being a great example of that.

Krabi does have its very isolated criminal incidents, but attacks of this nature are incredibly rare.

Plus you can get there easily from Phuket airport. It's the same coast and sea. It's culturally identical and plus you'd get to see the old indigenous Chao Lae (or Sea Gypsy) in the Krabi and Lanta areas, not to mention the lovely Muslim community there.

Maybe look to the areas of Phuket away from Patong and Phuket City, somewhere like Kata or Karon if you have your heart set on Phuket.

Just a suggestion.

KeyserSoze1's advice is spot on though, if you do decide to go.

Sorry but what BS you are spouting, you really are using this thread in bad taste. You seem intent on turning this and other threads into a promote Krabi venture - just bought a guest house have we?!

You obviously haven't got a clue about Phuket and it seems are not too familiar with Krabi either... The range of areas Phuket has to offer and you suggest she visit the scene of this attack?! Ever heard of Surin, Bantao, Naithon or Naiyang? How many crimes have been committed in these areas recently? Have you even seen the east coast of the island or some of the nearby islands like Naka Yai/ Noi.... Sixth senses resort etc?

Ao Nang is the most spoilt area in Krabi and would be the last place I'd recommend in the area. Krabi is generally a nice place but all the beaches that are worth a visit are actually offshore, the majority of Krabi coastline is muddy sand. You will be sorely disappointed if you book a beach holiday expecting the level of beauty that west coast Phuket offers...

If you focus on Ao Nang you are missing what Krabi really has to offer, putting yourself directly in a mini Patong. The changes this town has seen over the past few years with the appearance of touts, scammers, tailor shops and BGs is shocking. I actually much prefer Krabi town but only for a couple of nights or you will start to get very bored and stretched for things to do.

But hey, Ao Nang caters for your Western trash tourist with plentiful Burger Kings, McDonalds and KFCs if that's really what attracts you to Thailand...

If the police caught the actual bad guys , good for them. Normally these high profile cases are solved in three days, so they did run over by one day...... But before the government starts slapping itself on the back, breathes a sigh of relief, and starts predicting the return of massive amounts of tourists, here is something to keep in mind.

A tourist WAS murdered in a nice area of Phuket. Therefor the danger exists for anyone there as a tourist. Catching the bad guys alters NOTHING as regards the danger level of Phuket. It makes the police feel good, and certainly provides closure for the family members. But the other travel agents who are still alive are going back to Australia and tell everyone to stay the hell away from Phuket....

Why all the sensationalism? Random acts of violence do occur in places other than Phuket. I was recently at my home in Santa Cruz California and there was such an act. A homeless man from San Francisco with no ties whatsoever to Santa Cruz, stabbed to death a woman he didn't know in broad daylight for no apparent reason. She was just walking down the street near her home. It was the only murder there this year. It seems like many members of TV just love the chance to slam Phuket any opportunity they get...

Random? The lady was stabbed for her bag in a premeditated attack. Alright he may have not gone in with the intention of stabbing anyone, but he also probably didn't expect the lady to fight back. His reaction was to stab her when she did fight back. The reason = money and they targeted 2 ladies alone.

Phuket doesn't have one murder a year. You're not even taking into account all the "suicides" that happen either. The murder rate is much much higher than is officially documented.

Sure, all large cities and massive metroplises have high murder rates, that's to be expect. Phuket's tiny in comparison with a small population.

I think it's quite rose-tinted to say there's not a problem and people can't highligh this fact.

I think he made a valid point. In virtually all of these cases those responsible do not hail from Phuket, they are always from a different province.

If there is an issue, it's an issue across Thais and not limited to Phuket. It's sad but tourist areas attract the less desirable elements of society, why? You hit the nail on the head, money, big fat tourist $$$s and the richest pickings are in Phuket.

I'm sorry but clearly it wasn't a premeditated assault, it was a thoughtless, bungled robbery. The victims fought back and the guy reacted with his knife, probably as much out of fear as anything else. It's a tragedy, but clearly the motive was robbery.

You are being naive if you think these problems are solely in Phuket. Crime is on the increase, nationally, the issue is much larger and has more to do with a general lack of law enforcement, massive disparity between the rich and poor, increasing drug problem and increasing lack of morality in the younger generations coming through... IMO

True Visions is an oxymoron (that's enough of the poor beast - or is it a euphemism for Arisman I wonder.....)

At a time when HD is avaliable the world over and some sports broadcasts are even in 3D, True brings you PAL running on a cheapskate, unreliable box using a dish that isn't big enough to see through rainclouds.

"Class Action" against whom? Who do the True Vision customers have a contract with?

Can I sue True for not showing Only Fools and Horses every day? Or is that only open to non-oxidentals?

How is PAL/ NSTC relevant to 3D or HD?!!! And how is anything you have written relevant to this thread?!

On one hand we have Truevisions, offering HD PVR receivers, supporting HDMi, optical audio, component video, composite video and analogue audio connections, who install basic free satellite dishes for their customers....

On the other hand we have GMM Grammy offering receivers that aren't even compatible with modern HDMi only TVs, support only composite and analogue audio connections, no HD, no PVR and for the most part using Truevisions satellite dishes in favour of having their own dedicated installation team....

I watch HD content on True daily, watched last seasons premiership in HD on True and am enjoying Game of Thrones in HD on HBO HD courtesy of True...

I'd like more HD content but at least they are bringing Thai satellite TV into the 21st century, remind me what HD content you get from GMM?

As for True's "Unreliable, cheap box?" It's actually made by Samsung and used by a number of other satellite companies the world over... it's not a True product. Who makes the GMM receivers again?

I think you have misunderstood. The resolution that the vast majority of True channels is broadcast still fits the old PAL standards of 525 lines at 25P or whatever they had. 720P is a luxury and the 1080P is way off.

So, if you have a nice telly, the experience is blocky.

I have 2 True boxes at home - one is still the old red, white yellow crap. The other offers HD with HDMI output but crap in means crap out.

I didn't mention GMM in the least so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

When I have had 3 boxes fail in a month and the engineers complaining about the number they replace - I reserve the right to call them cheap

So when you have figured out how to spell NTSC - please review your post!

Sorry for mentioning GMM, guess that's totally out of context to this thread or when discussing satellite providers in Thailand?!

Also apologies NTSC... what a horrific spelling mistake that clearly rendered my entire post unreadable, my sincere apologies to the Nazi spelling police! Never The Same Colour... and again, what relevance to HD/ 3D exactly?

Sorry, what satellite services in 1080P are available the world over?

Truevisions HD PVR - It's 1080i on HD channels, know of 100s of people who use them and not a single failure... you are aware that you can freely upgrade your old receivers to new model?

Seems a bit pointless complaining about it when said company have offered to replace all receivers FOC with the new model...

Phuket=turning into Pattaya

Pattaya more peacfull, and no tuk tuk and taxi mafia!

Why do we consistently get people trying to turn this into a regional issue? To the extent that we have members joining up purely to post pro-Pattaya and anti-Phuket BS, get a grip.

Phuket's resorts are many and varied but unfortunately those closest to Patong are getting infected by proximity. Kata and Karon used to be pleasant areas with a family vibe but being just downwind of the island's den of inequity seems to be taking quite a toll on them and the change over the last few years is quite tangible.

When considering Phuket, only Patong can be accurately compared to Pattaya, as both attract the same low lives and miscreants both local and foreign, the big difference being Patong is just one area of Phuket, an island that holds much more appeal than just for the travelling sex pest...

IMHO the establishment's lack of motivation to clampdown on the blight on Phuket that is Patong has led to this uneasy mix of tourist demographics and increasing crime rate. Pattaya doesn't have that problem - it attracts only one demographic, the sex tourist.

Glad it looks like those responsible may actually be brought to justice although I'm sure that's of very little comfort to the victim's family and friends.

It's about time the powers that be on Phuket start to really clamp down on the HQ for vice in Phuket, Patong, and in doing so show the world that quality tourists are more important to Thailand than those looking for cheap thrills.

I just hope these aren't a couple of innocent saps who's family have been well paid to provide the BiB with some favourable headlines and a photo op...

Amazing how many of these crimes go unsolved but when it becomes international media fodder that may have a damaging effect on tourism, near instant results...

True Visions is an oxymoron (that's enough of the poor beast - or is it a euphemism for Arisman I wonder.....)

At a time when HD is avaliable the world over and some sports broadcasts are even in 3D, True brings you PAL running on a cheapskate, unreliable box using a dish that isn't big enough to see through rainclouds.

"Class Action" against whom? Who do the True Vision customers have a contract with?

Can I sue True for not showing Only Fools and Horses every day? Or is that only open to non-oxidentals?

How is PAL/ NSTC relevant to 3D or HD?!!! And how is anything you have written relevant to this thread?!

On one hand we have Truevisions, offering HD PVR receivers, supporting HDMi, optical audio, component video, composite video and analogue audio connections, who install basic free satellite dishes for their customers....

On the other hand we have GMM Grammy offering receivers that aren't even compatible with modern HDMi only TVs, support only composite and analogue audio connections, no HD, no PVR and for the most part using Truevisions satellite dishes in favour of having their own dedicated installation team....

I watch HD content on True daily, watched last seasons premiership in HD on True and am enjoying Game of Thrones in HD on HBO HD courtesy of True...

I'd like more HD content but at least they are bringing Thai satellite TV into the 21st century, remind me what HD content you get from GMM?

As for True's "Unreliable, cheap box?" It's actually made by Samsung and used by a number of other satellite companies the world over... it's not a True product. Who makes the GMM receivers again?

"TrueVisions and GMM Grammy are under fire for their failure to strike a deal before the tournament began earlier this month ensuring the airing of all Euro 2012 matches. The two conglomerates have been equally blamed by subscribers and critics alike for the socalled "dark screen" issue, while regulatory bodies such as the NBTC have been exposed as powerless. The government's consumer protection mechanism also failed completely to take action against the firms, Kaewsan said."

What a crock of shit. GMM Grammy lawfully purchased the rights and if they wanted to sub-license the rights True, or anyone else had to come to a commercial agreement with them. My guess is that True wanted it for free. True is just plain crap IMHO

Yes exactly, True didn't want to pony up for the buy in.

Maybe imagining to play the nationalist card and use

their friends in ministries to bash GMM into submission and get it for free.

"TrueVisions and GMM Grammy are under fire for their failure to strike a deal..."

Never ANYWHERE has it been said GMM Grammy refused to sell access to Truevision.

Yes, quite right! Clearly True should have paid GMM for the rights to broadcast FTA channels that they have broadcast for years without issue...?

ITV and the BBC should take some tips off GMM and do similarly to Sky next time they have the audacity to try to air FTA channels over satellite TV... how dare they?! It's not like they are FTA channels are they? .... err....

If True bought the rights in the past, then they had the right to broadcast in the past.

If they are not the CURRENT Thai National Rights holder,

then they have to negotiate a deal with them.

They bid for the rights, they were out-bid, and lost face,

and didn't want to pay into the pot of those that out-bid them.

Factually incorrect.

I notice that yet again, you choose to ignore the topic and the fact the games were broadcast on FTA channels... which True have the right to broadcast!

You deliberately skirt this issue in all of your posts on this subject. Had Grammy not used Thai FTA channels as the platform for the Euro 2012 there wouldn't be an issue. Had Grammy bought the rights then aired the games on "Grammy Sports 1, 2 & 3" there would not be an issue.

I guess the fact that "a large number of households in Thailand had been deprived of their basic right to watch free TV programmes, and all government agencies and regulatory bodies had completely failed to protect their rights", is totally irrelevant against a backdrop of GMM using their considerable resources and leverage to force an inferior product on consumers and deny consumers their basic rights to view FTA Thai TV...

I'm sorry but IMO, this the real issue; that a company can hijack Thai FTA TV if they have the right contacts and leverage over the Government agencies and regulatory bodies, consumers be damned.

"TrueVisions and GMM Grammy are under fire for their failure to strike a deal before the tournament began earlier this month ensuring the airing of all Euro 2012 matches. The two conglomerates have been equally blamed by subscribers and critics alike for the socalled "dark screen" issue, while regulatory bodies such as the NBTC have been exposed as powerless. The government's consumer protection mechanism also failed completely to take action against the firms, Kaewsan said."

What a crock of shit. GMM Grammy lawfully purchased the rights and if they wanted to sub-license the rights True, or anyone else had to come to a commercial agreement with them. My guess is that True wanted it for free. True is just plain crap IMHO

Yes exactly, True didn't want to pony up for the buy in.

Maybe imagining to play the nationalist card and use

their friends in ministries to bash GMM into submission and get it for free.

"TrueVisions and GMM Grammy are under fire for their failure to strike a deal..."

Never ANYWHERE has it been said GMM Grammy refused to sell access to Truevision.

Yes, quite right! Clearly True should have paid GMM for the rights to broadcast FTA channels that they have broadcast for years without issue...?

ITV and the BBC should take some tips off GMM and do similarly to Sky next time they have the audacity to try to air FTA channels over satellite TV... how dare they?! It's not like they are FTA channels are they? .... err....

The Yellowshirts are a small minority of.the Thai people. The Redshirts are a slightly larger small minority of the Thai people.

People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds.

I would presume that as the stupid yellow leadership had a no vote campaign last election. Few yellows voted Democrats.

I wonder what the results would have been otherwise.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

From above:

"People who voted for Thaksins government (Phua Thai) were not necessarily reds."

Well there is some truth in that. Here's one example: The neighbors of my adult Thai son (they live in a pretty nice, fairly new, gated moo baan, but not top luxury) are both doctors of medicine, both work in the govt hospital / regional health offices system, both middle aged, one has a quite senior position, the other an upper middle management level position.

Before the election my son asked them how they would decide who to vote for. Their immediate answer: "the party that promises to keep pork and egg prices down".

My son asked 'what about long term development policies, especially about education reform (which they know my son is passionate about)',

Their answer - their is no point in talking about long-term policies and in any case it's impossible, for a country, to have long-term policies.

The ultimate point - the continuing naivety of very large sections of the Thai electorate, even those with education and access to higher levels of discussion and expected to contribute to those higher levels of discussion.

Sadly the doctors are probably correct in respect to their comments about long term policies being impossible in Thailand.

This would require some sort of functioning Government where the political parties have some common ground and work for the good of the people. Unfortunately we have political parties at polar opposites, focused purely on wrestling power and control to achieve their own agendas.

A properly functioning Government require functional and intelligent discourse between politicians and an opposition party to act as such, rather than simply seeking to remove each successive Government by whatever means necessary...

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

"We have the ability to overthrow another government again if need be."

Their agenda is clear. Forget democracy, welcome mob power !

hey but that's OK 'round here, they're yellow shirts.

Trust me, I know.

But there is a numbers of people who visit this forum without any preconceived opinion, just looking for information. It's important they understand the views expressed here by the yellow shirts supporters are from a minority and don't reflect the views of the majority, you just have to check the results of the elections for the past 10 years to understand that.

Why trust you just look at the results of the last election you are full of b s.

The last election showed that 52% of the population favored the yellow shirts.

Why do you feel the need to say things that are false. Is it just your feeble attempt to justify the clowns in power.

I love this, when all else fails just make things up! Then accuse others of making false statements...

if you wanted a mobile phone, you bought it from AIS and paid their premium. If you wanted to use it, you paid AIS rates. AIS was allowed to overcharge with no oversight, both phones and rates well above other countries. Are claiming that is normal business practice?

Are you serious? In Thailand? Yes, sounds like quite a normal Thai business practice to me!

I have lost count of the times here, where I've hit a brick wall and been held to ransom as that person/ company holds the monopoly on the product/ decision that I require...

Is it correct and ethical business practice? Well as far the individuals/ businesses that hold the monopolies are concerned, I'm sure it's great business! Ethical? No, but that leads to the real question...

Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?

Having a monopoly was just ONE of the malfeasance. You forgot about writing laws to benefit his company and inside information. For example, if the government had to build roads somewhere and the first person to know would be Thaksin, guess what's going to happen. Instead of having contractors to bid for the project, he goes out of his way to 'appoint' a contractor which can triple the actual price of the project, lining his own pocket. Another example would be the Suvarnabhumi project. There are so many others cases.

And that's somehow an answer to my question?

Clearly not so why quote and post as a reply? Your reply is totally out of context to my post, kindly start your own post or answer my question.

In other words my point is being made.

True showed SELECTED Premiership matches and not all.

So why must Grammy show all for free? True didn't.

If True can pick and choose why not Grammy?

Grammy has 1 million set top boxes.

That is enough of a resource for UEFA to give them the contract.

True balked at the fee demanded to get a competitors service

that would have been putting redundant signal in several markets.

?! Yes clearly!?

Grammy commandeering FTA channels to show Euro 2012 due to not having any channels of their own to air matches, and then blocking the signal for other satellite services is clearly exactly the same as True airing paid for content on FTA channels and allowing all to access it regardless...?

True couldn't possibly show all Premiership matches on FTA channels because there simply aren't enough channels for the amount of games!

Great point, well made there! In the face of informed explanations simply bury your head in the sand and proclaim that you are correct regardless, while completely failing to grasp the situation!

"The big difference between True and Grammy, regarding this, is that True have never stooped to the level of seeking to deny any other satellite services the rights to air those Thai terrestrial channels showing premiership games... The rights to which were paid for exclusively by True."

Please point out when True actually gave other pay TV Satellite services their paid for content?

That is the gist of your argument, that True never denied another competing satellite company their feeds for free.

You seem to miss the point.

In the past, True have bought the rights for premiership games, shown them on their own channels, via their own satellite services but they also distributed a number of these games for airing on Thai terrestrial channels.

These Thai free to air channels can be watched a number of ways, via a terrestrial antenna or via a True receiver/ dish or via a number of 3rd party receivers/ dishes.

They have never sought to deny any other satellite services the rights to receive these Thai free to air channels while showing Premiership content paid for by True, on the basis that the other services haven't paid for the content.

That is exactly what Grammy has done.

Prior to Euro 2012 you could use a 3rd party satellite receiver to pick up Thai terrestrial TV and watch premiership content, bought by Truevisions, but viewable for free. True have not sought to prevent the airing of Thai terrestrial TV by other satellite providers, Grammy have.

Has, I repeat, since you've evaded the direct question;

'Has True ever given a direct competetor their paid for content in the same market for free?'

That is the only issue here.

The terrestrial stations were not blocked, they paid a revenue sharing fee,

only a free pass through to a direct competitor in the same market was blocked.

You say " .. True have bought the rights for premiership games,

shown them on their own channels, via their own satellite services

but they also distributed a number of these games for airing on Thai terrestrial channels."

A number of these games or all of those games?

Was True selective in which games it gave terrestrial deals to?

Errr.. actually I have made it abundantly clear and answered this question numerous times!!!

I'll try to make it very simple for you...

True buy rights to Premiership. True show some Premiership matches on Thai terrestrial channels. These Thai terrestrial channels can be watched by a number of 3rd party satellite receivers... True make no attempt to block this.

Grammy buy rights to Euro 2012. Grammy show Euro 2012 matches on Thai terrestrial channels. These Thai terrestrial channels can be watched by a number of 3rd party satellite receivers but Grammy seek to and successfully block the distribution of the Thai free to air terrestrial channels by any satellite service bar their own.

What is there not to understand here? One has tried to force the other to pay for channels it normally airs for free, the other hasn't.

The news reports the killer as a 17 year old. Is it usual practice in Thailand to conceal the identity or, is it as some speculate, that he has "connections"? No doubt this case will go the same way many others do and slowly vanish from the public eye.

As far as I am concerned, he intended to do harm as otherwise why would he be carrying a loaded weapon.

And, as another poster pointed out, the gun seems to be a single shot weapon, requiring a quick reload. Not a crime of passion I think.

Also am I correct in thinking that he is guilty of murdering the Arts student, because he saw him with other students with knives, and the female passenger (collateral damage?) is manslaughter (not premeditated).?

He says he meant to harm the students, but accidentally killed another passenger.

Interested to see what happens.

Every night Thai soaps contain many scenes of gratuitous violence. Husbands beating wives, hi-so types beating their maids. Shootings and the appearance of guns is common and violence here is accepted as a norm. Kissing is considered disgusting and the sight of a bare breast or a cigarette is enough to send the censors into orbit. A breast gives life, a gun takes it away.

R.I.P. to his victims and condolences to their families

Aye, show more boobs on TV and less guns....make love not war!

I'm not sure about anyone else but at 17 I was obsessed with seducing the opposite sex; shooting rival school children couldn't have been further from my thoughts and the only ammunition I required was a pack of Durex not bullets.

School rivalry was played out on the Rugby/ football pitch, and resulted in a few strong tackles and the occasional punch up. All conflicts generally resolved with a liberal spattering of beers in the club house after... how the world has changed!

Guns are far too readily available and people have been desensitised to their use by one too many Hollywood action flicks... clearly this issue is not one that can be easily solved but strong punishments and enforcement of the law would be a good start.

When major public figures in Thailand have literally got away with murder however, how can anyone expect Thai school children to act any better?

Thai society openly rewards the corrupt, the greedy and the violent, that is the message that is clearly being delivered and quite comprehensively; do whatever you want providing you have either the money, the power or propensity for violence to ensure you don't get punished for it.

"The big difference between True and Grammy, regarding this, is that True have never stooped to the level of seeking to deny any other satellite services the rights to air those Thai terrestrial channels showing premiership games... The rights to which were paid for exclusively by True."

Please point out when True actually gave other pay TV Satellite services their paid for content?

That is the gist of your argument, that True never denied another competing satellite company their feeds for free.

You seem to miss the point.

In the past, True have bought the rights for premiership games, shown them on their own channels, via their own satellite services but they also distributed a number of these games for airing on Thai terrestrial channels.

These Thai free to air channels can be watched a number of ways, via a terrestrial antenna or via a True receiver/ dish or via a number of 3rd party receivers/ dishes.

They have never sought to deny any other satellite services the rights to receive these Thai free to air channels while showing Premiership content paid for by True, on the basis that the other services haven't paid for the content.

That is exactly what Grammy has done.

Prior to Euro 2012 you could use a 3rd party satellite receiver to pick up Thai terrestrial TV and watch premiership content, bought by Truevisions, but viewable for free. True have not sought to prevent the airing of Thai terrestrial TV by other satellite providers, Grammy have.

I am not a fan of either company.

Grammy the paternalist pop star mill, nor True the abusive media and telecom purveyor.

But I am a fan of True being given a strong competitor, because of their abusive practices.

And that is in the public's best interests.

From ownership data above ut seems that the other papers pronouncements about all this might be best taken with a grain of salt.

True could have done a deal with Grammy for rights that they didn't win, they didn't.

The loophole is someone elses fault, not Grammy's for making use of it.

Or True for not doing a deal in a timely fashion.

What was obvious from the pictures is that the two company heads,

can't even look at each other while sitting side by side.

There are 420 million installed DTH and set top systems in Asia,

This is a fight over less than 2 million at most, or 0.5% of the max market for footie.

Sorry, I don't see the RIGHT to view ALL football matches on TV enshrined in any constitution.

I don't think anyone is claiming a right to watch all football matches, or that this right is "enshrined" in any constitution. That is simply being overly dramatic.

The fact remains however that Truevisions have given viewers the opportunity to view all premiership games and even shared some of those games with Thai terrestrial channels in the past.

The big difference between True and Grammy, regarding this, is that True have never stooped to the level of seeking to deny any other satellite services the rights to air those Thai terrestrial channels showing premiership games... The rights to which were paid for exclusively by True.

Your point about viewing figures in Asia is also mute in this fiasco, as it is purely focused on viewing within Thailand. What say have either True or Grammy about satellite services or the distribution of Euro 2012 in any country other than Thailand? None.

Grammy have focused specifically on denying Truevisions subscribers the right to view Thai terrestrial content when it contains content that Grammy have paid for, when the reverse can not be said for True.

Do you really think that Grammy present themselves as a viable competitor to Truevisions?! They have used Euro 2012 as a way of forcing viewers to consider their service while offering no sort of comparable level of content.

The receivers they have sold off the back of this shady carry on don't even support HD, no HDMi connectors... not even component video connectors <deleted>! They're selling redundant technology, taking us back 20 years in viewing quality and you see that as healthy competition? Demanding attention for an inferior product by buying up broadcast rights at hugely inflated prices and then monopolising the use of Thai terrestrial channels, to prevent their competitor's airing channels that they have done for years previously without complaint?!

Great, let's look forward to all major sporting events being split across a number of different satellite providers, so we can all juggle a multitude of subscription services and pay several times over for what we used to get on a single platform... progress, Thai style!

if you wanted a mobile phone, you bought it from AIS and paid their premium. If you wanted to use it, you paid AIS rates. AIS was allowed to overcharge with no oversight, both phones and rates well above other countries. Are claiming that is normal business practice?

Are you serious? In Thailand? Yes, sounds like quite a normal Thai business practice to me!

I have lost count of the times here, where I've hit a brick wall and been held to ransom as that person/ company holds the monopoly on the product/ decision that I require...

Is it correct and ethical business practice? Well as far the individuals/ businesses that hold the monopolies are concerned, I'm sure it's great business! Ethical? No, but that leads to the real question...

Why are certain cases of unethical monopolization exposed and prosecuted while others protected and concealed?

What the hell is wrong with people on this forum. You waste your days arguing over who is worst - the reds or they yellows - they did this, well, they did that, she said this, she said that, he's good, he's bad. They started it.

Both sides are wrong, both sides have done illegal and damaging things to the country and both sides use each others illegal actions to justify their illegal actions. It's <deleted> madness.

Best post yet on this thread, says it all.

The usual suspects are so predictably quick to jump to the defence of their respective violent mobs and shady patrons, yet seemingly blind to the similarities they exhibit and the motivation behind them.

We might as well argue about which is worse to encounter whilst swimming a crocodile or a shark... I'm afraid that eating you is just the nature of the beast regardless of hue.

Sometimes it feels like they are arguing over which is the best STD to contract, pro-Gonorrhea or pro-Chlamydia.

Please understand that people tend to argue on FORUMS. I's just a hot topic.

Fair enough. Please understand that people tend to comment on FORUMS!

Whether that comment is made in argument with another poster or as commentary on the trend of posts makes it no more or less valid... in fact I'd "argue" that those that post without becoming overly emotional about their subject tend to exhibit more balance and less bias

You didn't see the PTP slogan "Thaksin thinks - PTP acts" or are you unaware that the use of banned politicians contravenes electoral law?

Are you also unaware that the EC has resolved most of the complaints against PTP into 3 major cases, one concerned with the above, and 2 related to appointment of unsuitable candidates? Any one of the 3 cases could see PTP disbanded.

There is a recent thread on those 3 cases.

So your perceived electoral breaches are actually objections to certain campaign slogans and the appointment of unsuitable candidates... as an attempt to question the legitimacy of the last election the phrase "clutching at straws" comes to mind.

If Thaksin had retired and gone to clip coupons,

like all other deposed proto-dictators in Thailand when they fell,

then NONE OF THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE.

He likely would have kept most of his money and have returned and be an elder statesman.

But he couldn't let it go. That mindset he has is EXACTLY why he can't gain hands on

control for long without screwing up and without inadvertently calling PAD or an equivalent,

back into action to stop him.

I know you hold this position sincerely and in fact so do many decent Thais.Some of the leading Democrats I respect (ie excluding people like Suthep) hold very much the same view.

However I think it is profoundly wrong.If Thaksin disapperared today that would certainly eradicate a poison from the system.However the deep fissures in Thai society were not created by Thaksin:he simply exploited them.There would still be a profound division and that would need to be dealt with.

Many of the fissure you refer to are based on lies and propaganda. The whole 'judicial coup" BS is an attempt to disguise that he and his proxy parties refuse to comply with electoral law, even when harsh penalties were introduced.

If PTP is disbanded for the blatant breaches in the 2011 election, it will almost certainly lead to bloodshed. Given that those breaches were so blatant, IMHO that was the intent. Having elected a government that promised so much the people would feel robbed of the goodies to come. By delaying their decision, the EC has defused much of that as PTP struggles to deliver even a fraction of what it promised.

What blatant breaches in the 2011 election are you referring to?

Given that they were "so blatant", I assume that you have some evidence of this?

Please expand on this and substantiate if possible, be interested to know if this is just more mud slinging or if you do actually have some pertinent information...