klubex99

In over 40 years in Thailand I have never come close to a confrontation with a Taxi Driver, Street Vendor or anyone in a similar situation and it always amazes me that so many Farang get into such trouble.

It's not even a matter of differences between the cultures or whatever, it's common sense.

Think of the life these people lead - for example a Taxi Driver in Bangkok. Working 8 - 10 hours a day in Bangkok traffic to earn a profit of maybe Baht 300 - 500 a day, he lives in a small hut - a small apartment if he's lucky, probably with a wife and 3 or more children who have to survive on what he brings home, or he has had to leave them up-country and send money home every week or so. If he falls ill he does not eat, and he has no savings for medical expenses anyway, he can't take a day off for any reason without forfeiting his income for that day.

He faces this life 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year with absolutely no prospect of an improvement in his situation in the future.

One night he again picks up some Farang, say from a bar where the Farang has spent more money in 1 night than the Taxi Driver earns in a week, or takes the Farang home to his Apartment, the monthly rent for which is the Drivers income for 3 months.

Even an unintended slight can push him over the edge: And the bottom line is he has absolutely nothing to lose ...... if he attacks the (to him) arrogant Farang with a Machete or whatever, at most he will spend a few years or so in jail - so what? The crowded conditions there are probably not much different from the way he lives at home anyway, and he gets free food and lodging too.

If you remember nothing else, remember this .... he has nothing to lose, you do.

Patrick

This is probably the most ludicrous analysis of the incident I have read so far in 15 pages.

Its OK to paint a picture of sorrow for the taxi driver's life, but this is the life of millions of Thai people and a lot more in a much worse off situation than this evil thing of a human. So what you are saying is that you have lived here over 40 years and a BKK taxi driver is a portrait of despair. So how have you managed to survive 40 years and not been hacked to pieces by a 7/11 worker who makes a lot less, or a factory worker, or a farm worker?? Surely they are all on the brink of murder if your assessment is true?

OK... I wanted to put a Thai perspective on this.

I went to Pantip.com which is the biggest forum for Thais and is the thaivisa equivalent. So that I can get a clear view of how Thais have reacted to this shocking news.

It is overwhelmingly in condemnation of the murder of Mr Pilkington. The anger towards not only the taxi driver, but also to the police who are once again being blamed by Thais for this outrage. Comments ranged from Pity Mr Pilkington, come to Thailand and had to die. One other stated he wants to go to Sauvanabhumi airport and get out of here. Another said that they won't get in a taxi ever again in BKK, and they are all bad people who are always armed and are always violent and part of a big organized gang. (Yes, the taxis here are run by criminals and you have to be affiliated to even get a job)..... remember these are the words of Thai people and not my own words.

After digging a bit deeper, my wife managed to unearth many reports of incidents involving armed and violent BKK taxi drivers. Not sure if I can post links to the videos. But I will anyway.

These are all very recent, there are so many and we only looked for a few minutes and these are the first ones we found. If you can read Thai, you should find many more.

VIDEO 1

Just last week, one taxi cuts up another on the road and is followed to the gas station by the aggrieved driver who gets out of his cab with a knife and attempts to get at the other driver, there was a passenger in the other car and the taxi kept his doors locked and managed to get away.

VIDEO 2

A young passenger was very drunk and taxi driver said if he wanted to vomit, then tell him to stop and vomit outside the cab. Guy told him to stop and got out and vomited in the street, then for some reason a scuffle breaks out and the driver reaches into his cab and take out a gun and shoots the kid 6 times.

VIDEO 3

Taxi driver gets overtaken by nutter taxi driver and beeps his horn. The nutter gets out of his cab and threatens the other driver with what looks to be a samurai sword, but the victim driver thinks it was a length of pipe.

I could post many more, but you get the idea.

It seems that Thai people are very pissed off at this incident as most of us are (minus a core of apologists that you always get on here). But the real underlying problem is that the police are reluctant to do anything about it, and all they really need to do is to have a crackdown and conduct an operation to search taxis randomly, and anyone carrying a weapon is whisked straight of to prison. But they choose to be reactive rather than proactive. Disarm the taxis and make a lot of examples of offenders with large prison sentences, only then will there start to be an improvement.

While they are at it, enforce the law that was introduced by THE GOVERNMENT saying ALL taxi drivers must accept a fare no matter what. Which was completely ignored by the taxi drivers because a few weeks after it came out, I was in BKK and me and the wife had to stand in the rain while we were refused by about 15 taxis in a row, and that was for around a 150B fare.

I have to say. I agree with most of the Thais.

First part of video with the foreigner in the frame in slow motion:

machete man walks backwards. farang seems to follow and to attack him.

What do you expect him to do?.... Run????

When someone is angrily approaching you with a drawn sword the last thing you do is run. Because if you do, you can no longer see the attacker or the weapon, all martial arts training tells you this... NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE AGGRESSOR AND THE WEAPON.....EVER! The moment you turn your back, you are at a huge disadvantage. You have much better survival odds to attempt to disarm the attacker and get him into a submission position.

You don't even need martial arts training, you will probably do it by instinct if you were in that position.

In the very short time you get to react to a situation like that, a person needs to make a lightening fast assessment. If you are older and more overweight than your aggressor, you know that running is NOT an option available to you where you are going to come out safe. The only other thing is to close the distance between you and the weapon to reduce its effectiveness., at the same time the attacker is going to move away from you to increase the weapon's effectiveness.

Once the range is reduced, you concentrate solely on immobilizing the weapon, nothing else matters to you at this time. Once you have the weapon under control, then you switch your attention to getting the attacker in a submission point. That is for laymen with no martial arts training. If you are experienced in martial arts, there are techniques to actually take out the person in a way they can't use the weapon. But inexperienced, go for the weapon arm.

What Mr Pilkington did was in my opinion 100% instinctive to close down the distance. He could have possibly done better had he dropped what he was holding, but who knows in the heat of the situation, he didn't have a lot of time gifted to him to gather his thoughts.

To try to allude to something irrational such as quoted above in some sort of absurd attempt to try to turn the blame on the victim is in my view... very profound.

Some readers may find it useful to watch a few youtube videos on how to disarm an attacker, not just with a sword, but with a gun, knife etc... You never know, it may come in useful some day. Probably never will, but 30 minutes could make a big difference in a bad situation, and they are quite interesting videos on there.

so, one cab driver loses control, kills a foreigner and suddenly thailand becomes a country full of killing maniacs who deeply hate farang people and can kill them and walk free. sigh... can the people who think like that please get their bags, take a cab (pun intended), drive to bkk airport and leave.

One???? You need to read the papers or internet a little more. Phuket and Pattaya are out of control. Or better stated, in control by Thai and Russian mafia. Try renting a scodoo and get a scratch on it or not and see what happens.

I rely on my own radar.

Thailand is a country with approx 65.000.000 people. Majority of tourists come-enjoy-leave without ANY problem. Majority of expats living and working here do not get into trouble either. Then there is TV and a bunch of frustrated males who hate Thailand/Thai but stick here because "home" sucks too (they ran into the very same problems there as they do here). Thailand is not perfect, it's a country in fast-evolution but if thailand were as dangerous as some clowns here wanna make people believe, western embassies would WARN people not to go.

Not sure if you read one of my earlier posts. But i will reiterate it here.

If my wife had her way, we would never get into a taxi or tuk tuk. This also goes for leaving our car unlocked at traffic lights, also walking alone at night. That is in relatively peaceful Korat town, let alone the more famous trouble hotspots of Thailand.

Thailand very dangerous, and that's not just her, that is her brother and parents too. This is not Thailand bashing, I am more laid back about than she is. But i am slowly changing my view.

Thais are just as wary of Thailand's problems as foreigners are.

some comments here makes me wonder how many farangs throwing water bottles on taxi drivers on a regular basis just because they don't like the fare.

taxi drivers are subjected to all kinds of abuse by their passengers and they never know what kind of crazy maniac enters their car. so they are constantly in a self defense mode and i cannot blame them if they have something like a machete in their car. its usually not to rob their customers but for self defense.

Nobody has established anything concrete about the water throwing. Then to say that taxi drivers are justified to carry a machete and use it in self defense..... against a bottle of water?? In a civilized society being a taxi driver is no excuse to carry a weapon. You can't say that a taxi is any different to any other form of business. A shopkeeper has no control over what nutter walks into their shop, and train conductor has no control over what nutter gets on the train, a noodle stall attendant has no control over what nutter comes to buy noodles.

So using your rational, all these people need to be able to carry a machete just in case they get a bad one?

why has it stayed hushed up for 2 days and not on TV or press

Where do you get this from?

It happened at 8.30PM last night.

so, one cab driver loses control, kills a foreigner and suddenly thailand becomes a country full of killing maniacs who deeply hate farang people and can kill them and walk free. sigh... can the people who think like that please get their bags, take a cab (pun intended), drive to bkk airport and leave.

I think that people here are posting in response to the fact that this sort of thing can be seen as typical (in a lot of views). Just because it is being discussed on this thread, doesn't erase all the other thousands of incidents. This thread is about one incident, but the discussion is about the wider picture... Take your blinkers off.

UPDATE.

My wife just found the story on the Thai news website.

The guy was 51 from USA. Name: Troy Lee Pilklington.

He dies after sustaining injuries in an attack by a taxi driver after an argument over the fare. Mr Pilkington got out of the taxi and walked away, when the passenger was attacked from behind with a large knife (sword).

The attacker is in police custody, and the attack happened near Sukumvit Soi 68.

I won't post the pictures here, too graphic.

Here is the link to the source.

http://www.dailynews.co.th/crime/217278

RIP Troy. You didn't deserve it, no matter what anyone says.

Not quite according to my wife.

As the American got out of the taxi, he threw water from a bottle into the face of the taxi driver.

By that time both men were extremely angry in the heat of the moment and it became a fight to the death, the American was attacked with a weapon but did not back off even through he was unarmed.

I only reported what my wife told me, she didn't mention anything about a bottle of water. But that would only be hearsay at this moment and not a solid account of what happened. The bottled water thing was probably the driver's account of what happened, it is unfortunate that the other witness is not able to give his version of events. I don't expect that the taxi driver would be giving the full truth anyway... do you?

I only posted the solid evidence, and that was that there was a dispute over the fare... with or without the water, and I personally don't see how throwing water can make the end result any more justified. For me, even if true, it changes nothing.

Well I'm at the head waters of the Mun river (Chok Chai Korat) which flows right down to BKK. We've had some big storms and rains here the last couple of weeks, my road floods but I can still drive everywhere. You guys down stream get hit hard by the sounds of things. I feel for you. Get high!

Yeah, I am in Korat too. In Joho other side of the town. It has been bone dry here for weeks now, I heard the rain was bad other side of town though.

This evening it rained very hard for about 90 minutes. The road was about 6 inches deep, not so bad really, but I went over the street at the back of ours where they are building this new moo baan and it is so deep I can't get the car through it, OK for decent sized pickups. I can get in and out via another road which is a bit higher, but the neighbours over the back are not happy at all, and the 2 restaurants there are pretty much unable to trade at the moment, but the best saving grace is that the only way into this new development is via the road that they have created a flood in. So they won't be selling any of those houses.

That gives me a comforting feeling that the idiot building there will lose tens if not hundreds of millions. SOM NAM NA!

Do you really think they will tell people about the road being flooded they will sell it anyway and the buyers will find out too late.

No they won't tell them, but if anything, they will take years and years to sell (if they ever do sell before they crumble to the ground), there is a huge amount of new build empty developments here. Hundreds of them, been sat empty for 3 years, so I am presuming that it will be common knowledge within a few rainy seasons. It already is common knowledge around here.

But anyway, my point is that they will not sell, with or without flooding. The area is flooding because of the development of homes that are just not needed. I have never seen such a disproportionate amount of development versus demand. Not even all the houses in our street are sold.

It doesn't stop at housing. There seems to be an addiction to building shop houses here as well. There must be hundreds of them sat empty just in 2 square KMs and still they are throwing them up. I can walk to about 10 mom and pop shops 300M of my house. They are as common as dogshit. None of them run from a shop house. they are sat empty. Nobody wants them, even for rent or for sale, there is no interest. When are these idiots going to realise, you don't build if you can't sell?

Thanks for the update Klubex99.

A shocking, cowardly despicable act.

Now we have a name and a face to the victim can we keep in mind that as is usual, the victims friends and family will usually find their way on to Thaivisa looking for assistance and answers.

Mr Pilkington certainly didn't deserve this over a taxi fare dispute.

I totally agree. Lets keep it decent for the sake of his loved ones who have my deepest sympathy at this time.

Incidentally, I do believe that he is using a samurai sword. Another shocking sub-culture going on in this country. There is a mushrooming of 'samurai gangs' in Thailand. My wife just watched that video and her first comment was, that looks like they copy samurai gang. There are many now, they attack people for nothing with samurai swords, they are crazy. It on the news. They think it cool to do it.

"The farang will in no way have deserved what he got, no matter what he did. This is why the attitude here to life is in total contradiction to the so called state religion of Buddhism"..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dam_n ! Just laughed so hard when I read the dribble above that I sprayed my laptop with coffee, but thanks for the chuckle, I needed that.

So you saying he deserved it then?

"...but ask any other cargo around..."

What is a 'cargo'?

He probably means a "cargo agent" or freight forwarder.

The factory will usually give you in 5s so long as the entire order is sizable enough to interest them. More than likely you will be directed to a distributor or trading company. They also may already have Thailand sewed up with a licensed buyer, in which case you must only go through them.

If it is a well known Korean brand, then it will be almost certain that they have it licensed out already, and can't supply to you.

"the officers said it could be murder and robbery as some properties of Mr. Hartwig were missing" see, there are geniuses at BIB. Regarding the bleeding elephant: does it have money, connections? If so, be allowed to leave the country or some other solution. I am sure this case is a suicide. We farangs are well know for suicides with a blunt whack to back of our own heads. Happens all the time.

Mr. Hartwig undressed all except his underwear, run as fast as he could backwards until he hit the wall with the back of his head and died from the injuries, typical falang suicide, case closed

Note to ThaiVisa staff.

If I am ever found dead in my home, whether it be natural causes or suspicious circumstances. Please don't publish it on this discussion board. I would assume family and friends and especially my children back in the UK would do searches for any information and would surely stumble upon the thread.

It is bad enough to be grief stricken by the sudden death of a loved one, without having to go through some of the stupid and mindless comments such as the one quoted above. Talk about adding insult to injury.

I personally do not wish anyone to become more distressed than they already are.

Rest in Peace mate, and my sympathy are with your family and friends at this time.

Thailand actually have the lowest English skills in the world in my opinion. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but on a global scale, I would expect them to be in the bottom 20. I have been around a lot, and have been surprised at just how widespread our language is spoken, I have been equally shocked at how rare it is to find a Thai that can speak the language at all.

it's the education system. I don't think these people actually admire Hitler but it's possible the school history syllabus didn't cover what he did and the millions he murdered.

At least the chicken is pretty good...

I think the point is they don't care what he did. (In reality neither do I, and neither did Prince Harry of the UK, and the uniforms look pretty snappy)

I'm sorry, but are you really saying you don't care what hitler did?

Don't care at all, nor do I care what Genghis Khan, Slobodan Milosevic, Stalin, the Japanese, the IRA, Pol Pot, et al did.

It's in the past, forgive and forget.

I notice that you left out Bin Laden from your list, is that because Bin laden targeted Americans by any chance?

So you think that murder is not worth caring about? let alone mass murder.

You truly are a quality person. Well, I suppose if you experience it within your family one day, you may reflect back on your posts here with some form of remorse. Let's hope karma works in this particular situation.

She ought to be given at least 12 months in prison to cool her attitude down.

She grabbed the wheel deliberately in a fit of rage with zero regard for the safety of any other road users.

She could have caused huge loss of life, the stupid bitch.

In any civilized country, she would have been canned for sure as a public menace.