Thaiwine

Trade deals sound to me like they are being over played, from what I have seen/ read the trade in goods are about 8% of GDP while this is still a lot of money the other 32% would therefore be in services like banking.

Just watched this on YouTube

I've not heard of him before, Stefan Molyneux

Thought provoking if you are British

IMF have increased the threat. From say Brexit will be bad, to very bad.

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BREAKING NEWS.

The IMF have just released a statement in which an imaginary sky fairy will unleash a lightening bolt of nuclear proportions at 0800, 24 June if there is a BREXIT.

Both sides in this issue have merit in their argument, reflected in how close the polls are.

But, The IMF has a valid point. Markets hate uncertainty,and a Brexit will introduce enough uncertainty to make an already precarious world economic condition, even more so, and as such the timing could not be worst.

Lagarde is right to worry and so should the British people.

I am not worried that there may be a down turn, If thats the price then so be it, we handled it before and we will handle it again, if need be, I should add that IMO that is worst case scenario.

IMF are joining in the bully tactics,along with Dave and co, it just puts my back up and it's a long time since I left the school playground.

I only have to go into my city centre any day of the week, listen to people talking as I walk around, I hear English spoken maybe 20 to 30% of the time, this seems to have slowly increased in the last ten years.

Try it if and when you are in the UK, I won't go into the non existent jobs argument, The IMF is just backing up the EU structure maybe they think they can stop the rot before it takes hold, I hope not

My issues are with sovereignty, I see English or Britishness being eroded I am proud of being British and I wish to preserve it if I can, even if that means taking a hit on the economy for a while.

I note that Euro zone countries are now coming out of recession. Last Q exceeded USA growth.

Some green shoots at least ?

I also see that the IMF is wading in again with dire warnings

Maybe its my naivety, but I can not discount all of these experts as being Disengenuous.

Have you considered that these organisations are part of the establishment and that it may not be in their intrest to see the UK leave the EU.

Someone commented on how bad the UK was prior to joining the EEC, we had a labour government from 1964 the PM was Harold Wilson, he again won the next election two years later, the pound was devalued under the labour government who’s socialist policies of spend spend spend caused them to go cap in hand to the IMF to borrow money to bail us out, the people rejected Labour at the next Election in 1970 and Edward Heath became PM, he took the UK into the EEC, the people paid him back at the next Election in 1974 when they brought Harold Wilson back, who stayed until 1979.

My thoughts are that Socialist policies were to blame for the problems of the sixties, tax the rich and give to the poor while on the surface seems like a noble thing to do actually stifles progress in business, and encourages laziness among the less well off, while the Conservative policies of work hard and reap the rewards brought about prosperity.

Why did this story remind me of the Alien movie

Roses are red

Violets are blue

I'm for Brexit

What about you

Brilliant.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, sums up

nicely the level of Brexiteer erudition and wit.

The thing is old chap, it really doesn’t matter whether you are Erudite, Hittite or Marmite when it comes to v day those eligible get one vote,

It’s not about the purported quality of the votes but the number of votes that will decide the outcome.

Whom ever leaked this

Time to visit the tower

I don't think any one is imprisoned on these islands,

All they have to do is say we wish to return to where we came from, and 'poof' they will be there.

Roses are red

Violets are blue

I'm for Brexit

What about you

Having just read through this thread I feel that having left school at 15 to work and help support our family of six, that not having a degree in reading and writing I find I am unable to inform myself of all the facts and figures to form an 'informed' opinion so all I have left is to go with my gut feeling.

One thing I have learned is that when people try to blackmail or intimidate you, you call their bluff.

The Bremain people are a glass half empty group,

while the Brexit people are a glass half full group.

Only time will tell whether he is a good or bad London mayor.

To my shame, I voted for Thatcher first time round as I was naive and also thought a female prime-minister would be empathetic towards ordinary people!

We learn by our mistakes...A long time later I read a Clive James article pre-election (in a book) saying something along the lines of she was either delusional or just didn't care about everybody else. He was right, but I realised this too late.

Back on topic - I know nothing about Sadiq Knan (other than has been posted on this thread), but let's hope that he's able to make clear that the majority of muslims in the UK have no interest in violence. If he's able to do this, perhaps they will find it easier to denounce those promoting violence.

I'm just hoping that he doesn't turn out to be another Thatcher.

I'm rather hoping he does.

Hungary is a christian country it would seem they wish to stay that way.

Genral strike = everyone stops working

Will anyone notice the diffrence

They are promoting it ?

As far as I know they have said we will have a vote on the new constitution in August

I haven't heard of any details about it have you ?

As I understand there is a copy online,

And it will be explained to people, it is possible to explain something without bias

but people giving their opinions are bias because they are their opinions.

They are "explaining" the draft, using the Army http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/911442-2nd-army-area-introduces-campaign-to-promote-understanding-of-draft-charter/?hl=charter, a singer http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/159966 and other methods. Do you think the government that produced the draft and is putting it to a vote will explain it in terms that don't promote it?

Meanwhile Suthep is allowed to publicly endorse the constitution http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/160795 while those who "influence" the referendum face ten years in prison http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/909541-pm-threatens-10-year-prison-sentence-for-politicians-who-criticize-referendum/?hl=criticize .

Do you really think the junta will explain the draft without bias? Do you think it is acceptable to deny people the right to share their opinions?

Regarding details, I know it has an appointed Senate that can block actions taken by the elected parliament and it ends free education at age 15. I have an opinion on those matters, but it would be illegal for me to share them.

Ok I accept that it can be said that the govenment are promoting it, and some will say that's unfair, I learned a long time ago that life is not fair.

So what can people do, vote yes or no.

They vote yes and get this charter thingy out of the way and clear the table ready for elections, or vote no and delay everything longer, they may well end up with the next one imposed with no vote on it.

Personaly I am hoping to see something along the lines of people with criminal convictions are barred from standing as MP's.

They are promoting it ?

As far as I know they have said we will have a vote on the new constitution in August

I haven't heard of any details about it have you ?

As I understand there is a copy online,

And it will be explained to people, it is possible to explain something without bias

but people giving their opinions are bias because they are their opinions.

A man with a prosthetic leg robbed a jewlery shop

I heard the police were looking for a man with a wooden leg

They should try using glasses

All the people that get pulled for expressing their opnion in public have been told not to, whats hard to understand ?

It seems to me, wait until after they get their elections then the politicians that get elected can do the peoples wishes

By keep winding the current govement up they delay the process,

When they get to vote on the charter they can vote how they wish to,

with no debate the people will just have to make up their own minds,

Whats wrong with that ?

As soon as Australia changes it's current polices the tide of refugees will match Europe's.

How about 4?

* UK trade 50% outside EU as in Asia, Pacific, US, Commonwealth Countries. The UK is EU's single biggest customer world wide therefore EU needs UK more than other way around.

* 13 Billion pounds membership fee paid to EU budget 2015, EU spending on the UK was 4.5 billion

* Deconstruction of the British state and loss of sovereignty as Brussels takes over Westminster with unelected bureaucrats making European Union similar to Soviet Union which ultimately broke up.

* What Hitler couldn't do with bombs Cameron gives sovereignty away with enthusiasm

I would not describe one of those as a cogent, coherent arguments for leaving

No 1

A huge proportion of what we buy from the EU is agricultural products. Almost all our tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, peaches, nectarines and a lot of other fruit and vegetables come from the EU. The classic British breakfast bacon is mainly sourced from the EU. Effectively, there are no other suppliers who could meet the UK demand for those products so either we do without them or we continue to buy them from the EU suppliers. Not much of a bargaining chip, really. Sure VW, BMW, Mercedes, and most Vauxhalls (made mainly in the EU) and other European marques would get a bit dearer if the UK slapped tariffs on, but I'm sure the British retail car industry could absorb that as they have screwed the British motorist for long enough. The UK exports to the EU are almost entirely manufactured goods. Surprisingly, perhaps, Britain is the 3rd or 4th largest manufacturer of cars in Europe (it's true!). We don't get to hear about that all that much as we make them for other people; mainly Japanese manufacturers. Nissan have a huge plant in Sunderland, Honda and Toyota both manufacture in the UK as do BMW (think Mini and Rolls Royce). It costs €100s of millions to equip a car plant to build a new model, the last time there was a change of model, Nissan had to choose between Sunderland and the Czech Republic (if I remember rightly). Labour and other costs were significantly lower in the Czech Republic but in the end Sunderland won because of the exceptionally high build quality but it was apparently a close run thing. Now consider the likely scenario if Britain goes for Brexit. The loss of unfettered access to the world's largest market in the shape of the EU will likely just swing it in the direction of the UK's EU competitors. The same scenario is probably going to be repeated at Honda, Toyota and BMW's plants in the UK. That's the end of tens of thousands of mainly highly skilled, well paid jobs; it may even result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of such jobs if you consider the knock-on effect on companies in the area who supply these huge plants. Volkswagen buy a large proportion of their brake assemblies from companies in the Midlands but they could shift to alternative sources in France, Italy or other countries if they are too inconvenienced by the Brexit. The Airbus consortium manufacture their wing assemblies and some other parts in the UK. They could manufacture them elsewhere in the EU and after a Brexit, the likelihood is they may well consider it. Of course, Airbus and the car manufacturers wouldn't just take the jobs away from Britain, they'd take the people as well. Think of it this way, if you are a highly skilled worker and you are offered redundancy and the prospect of little more than a job, shelf filling at Tesco or a much higher standard of living in a vibrant economy in central Europe where you would be a valued member of the team setting up a new plant, what would you do?

Of course there great opportunities in developing markets in the far east and elsewhere but the fact that we are members of the EU doesn't make trading with them more difficult, quite the contrary, the EU has trading agreements with almost everyone from which we benefit as much as any other member state. All these trading agreements would be invalidated for the UK after Brexit. The commonwealth, ha! I think you are still living in the 1950s. Australia's big trading partners are local; Indonesia, Japan and China. The US has made it plain that we are right at the back of the queue. What you left with are mainly countries who have no money to buy expensive goods from the UK, they want to sell stuff to us! They buy from China and other low cost economies.

No 2

I believe the figures you quote have been pretty much completely debunked by the independent fact checking organisations; the real figure is much lower. Nevertheless it is a fact that unlike some other economies, we are net contributors to the EU budget. However, I should point out that some of this is because of crass ineptitude on the part of the UK government. The UK could have claimed £millions in aid from the EU emergency fund following the recent catastrophic floods but they didn't claim it; citing some lame excuse about paperwork!

What most Brexiters claim will be huge economies may look a little sick when the truth emerges. Let's take the example of EASA, never heard of it? It's the "European Aviation Safety Agency" which is an EU body. They look after aviation safety and security for the whole EU in such matters as organising and coordinating air traffic control, licensing aircraft types and crew and a whole host of other rather important air safety related activities. They also maintain the blacklist of airlines who are not permitted to fly into European airspace (a long and scary list it is too; all 20 pages of it!). If the UK exits the EU, either the British will have to take over all this work for Britain thus needing to recruit and pay for 100s more civil servants or the UK will have to pay the EU agency to carry on doing it for them. There are dozens of such EU agencies; for example the EU medicines agency, the EMA, that looks after the safety and licensing of medicines in the EU (currently based in London along with several other EU bodies but presumably they will go upon Brexit), the EU Chemicals Agency (ECHA) which oversees the chemical safety in the EU (and for whom I designed the public database) and many, many others who perform vital tasks for the UK that will have to be either paid for by the UK or taken over by recruiting and training UK civil servants by the hundred.

These are the hidden costs to the UK of a Brexit decision.

No 3

Very bad news; to get a decent deal from the EU on trade and other matters we will have to accept "free movement of labour" so unlimited EU immigration, most EU regulations and we will have to pay the EU a huge sum for the privilege (although less than today).

No 4

What is sovereignty, pray explain! With the world's largest market on it's doorstep and in a world dominated by China, India, the US, Russia and the EU, the UK will have the right to do exactly as it pleases after Brexit until one of the big boys says it can't.

No1.

To imply that Britian would be cut off from europe and there would not be enough bacon and eggs to my mind is not belivable, should Britain not have the infastucture to supply the quantaties needed there is a big world out there who would be grateful of the extra trade, and I think the EU would want to sell them to us too, indeed if you look in the supermarkets there are food and drink products from all over the world.

with regards to our Industry ie. cars I would think that the manafactures would be reluctant to switch producution to europe as you said productivity is good here, more likely the brand owners would negotiate a way to trade their cars in europe, the same with airbus they have already said they will not leave the uk if we brexit.

No2

About the money the uk pays to the EU you just say ahh thats the civil servants ineptitude,etc etc. a bit like saying to the police I've been robbed and the police tell you it's your own fault, wouldn't it be better if you wasn't robbed in the first place ?

with regards to EASA etc etc your saying it would be a bad thing for us to create so many jobs, maybe your predictions are right maybe not, they are just your predictions.

No3

You say Britian would have to accept free movement of Labour to obtain a decent deal, how can you know ? that would be up to the politicians and I doubt this would be agree to as it's one of the reasons for brexit.

No4

Sovereignty, the right to self determination, the right to chose who we sleep with.

I think that there will be some job losses and there will be some job gains, though the job losses will come first, Britain will pick it self back up and get on with or without the EU, In the case of brexit I fully expect France to throw it's dummy out the pram, less so the other EU members.

No one can/should belive the bias hype and spin from either side,

Make up your own mind and do what you feel is best for Britain.

I feared the worst

The worst I had to fear

Was an Anticlimax

(maybe a little to deep)

Completely off topic rant: why the heck is it soooo trendy here on TV to use the word "apologist". This word is hardly used anywhere else in the media! Mix it up a little please!!

Limited vocabulary and intellect, it's still fashionable to use despite being massively passe, says much about the poster using the word.

Popular because it describes to a tee the person it's aimed at and unfortunately we have lots of them on here, don't we.

Also bear in mind that this is a forum, not an examination for a degree in English grammar.

But a degree for the Well educated Expats who Posting there useless comments ?

Irony lol

Also The accusation against Nigel Farrang was made by Daimian Collins who is pro stay so not supprising he would try to smear dirt, he has an agenda a pro stay agenda