rickirs

May be time to put the clocks back 78 years, have Thailand governed by one absolute ruler revered by everybody, democracy in Thailand does not work.

Democracy has and does work in unison with a royal ruler. Look at Jordon and Denmark. But critical to such successes is a constitution that is UPHELD and ENFORCED. A democractic government cannot operate in a vacuum and between Suthep, the EC, and the National Police, that is what is happening now in Thailand. Leaving out of the formula for the moment the military who seem still "on the fence" about what their interests are.

So in the parts of Thailand where most voters are anti- thaksin, the opposition is preventing people from voting. Woo Thaksin must be scared witless.

Anti-Thaksin protestors WILL NOT BE VOTERS in this election simply because there is NO Democrat candidate to vote for on the ballot. And they have been instructed by Suthep NOT TO VOTE that would otherwise allow them to vote for OTHER OPPOSITION PARTIES that are on the ballot. So why would Thaksin worry about Suthep's supporters not voting or even voting, albeit for other opposition parties? Especially since the TPT is the majority party made even more so without election opposition of the Democrats. No, Suthep is fearful that if his insurrection does not succeed in gaining control of the government, he not only will lose his political career, but face "meaningful" prosecution.

This is BS. EC officials are just government workers who also feared for their lives. Blame Chalerm and his useless corrupt police force for not maintaining order.....and this has been going on months now....roads are still blocked because police have done nothing to remove protesters. So, as expected, people take matters into their own hands. Now blood is on his hands and Yinglucks for not forcing the police to do their job. They are lazy spoiled rodents...they lot of them.

Yingluck fails to force the police to do their job to protect VOTERS and EC workers? And exactly how would that work? That she should write a letter begging the police demanding they do their job - "pleazzze"? The "Government" has no armed forces to protect anyone; it has only the rule of law but not the instrument of physical enforcement. But now maybe she can ask the military to fill the Police role to create a safe zone around every voting venue to ensure voter access, voter and EC worker safety without fear or incrimination to exercise their constitutional right to vote. If the military choses to continue to recluse themselves, then you have a de facto coup and the loss of Democracy.

Shocked. I expected to read that charges would be filed, because they had negligently opened polls knowing full well that it was likely to become a volatile situation.

Postponement at the least seems to be the prudent thing to do, as the government, nor police seem to be capable of ensuring the safety of the people. Be they the protestors, the anti protestor protestors, or the voting public.

The "Government" does not have neither armed personnel nor authority to ensure that protestors to comply with laws. That is the responsibility of the National Police. And if the police are unable to do their responsibility to protect VOTERS, then the military needs to assume police responsibilities. As long as Suthep continues to lead this insurrection without any legal recriminations such as arrest and enforcement of the State of Emergency, there will be no good date for the elections.

How about some criminal charges against the police for doing absolutely nothing to prevent armed red shirts from driving up to the anti-government protesters, killing one and wounding at least four others in a fusillade of gunfire. Oh yes, it seems that they all got away...

OR for that matter, for doing NOTHING when voting venues are being blocked and locked form access by voters by Suthep's anarchists, or enforcing the State of Emergency to keep Protestors to no more than five? When you allow anarchists to control, you allow opportunity for counter violence.

People on both side are crazy. This will not be the end only the beginning. Death means nothing to these people.

If the police did their job this event would not have taken place. Suthep made it well known that Protesters will illegally block voting venues to prevent people from voting while promising not to block those same venues. The police under a state of emergency were tasked to provide public safety at the polls and they did not. Suthep made it well known that he does not recognize the state of emergency that would have limited the protests at polling venues to five persons-not enough to be feared or blocking. But the police also made it known that they would not follow their responsibilities to enforce the state of emergency.

What a banana republic... Who is supposed to protect voters and make sure they exercise their right to vote?

Unbelievable.

Maybe if voters pay Suthep a poll tax they'll be allowed to vote?

Chalerm - "I will not be among the arresting officers." In fact, "I'll be as far away as possible when the sht hits the fan. Good luck Boys in Blue, call me when it's over....if you're able."

"Tarit yesterday also warned people not to take part in the protests, saying they could be regarded as violating the law or could end up clashing with police.

He said ordinary protesters would be also deemed to have violated the law under the state of emergency. He said that by attempting to interrupt an election, they could face a jail term of up to 10 years."

Ah, another fascist having his moment. Who let PT's pit bull loose?

Still the protesters should know by now that exercising your democratic right to protest is a crime in PT's eyes (if they are the ones you object to that is).

Isn't the PTP merely using the constitutional provisions that were installed by the Democrats when they held Government? And now that its being used against the Democrats, you're upset?

Was Suthep among the captured snakes?

The Court's ruling gives the PTP and Yingluck the perfect political tool. They just declare that the next elections will occur whenever Suthep agrees to a date that he can guarantee peaceful voting. He won't, and the PTP / Yingluck remain in control of the Government for an indefinite time. And short of a violent overthrow of the Government, Suthep remains outside of the legislative process with no political power.

Especially if they are paid,who's going to refuse 500 bht. ?

regards Worgeordie

But as Korn admitted (as posted many times without some reading it), the Democrats paid out more than PTP last time around - so the pickings will be slimmer now with them not running!

As to not voting resulting in a lost vote, that is not so fanciful if the 'People's Council' replaces the elected Parliament.

But I think the usual suspects really knew these things already.

He didn't say they paid more to the people that's just red BS.

What he said was they spent more on election campaigning than PT.

PT just relied on unsustainable promises which are now coming back to haunt them.

Deputy Democrat party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot in an interview that was broadcast on May 31, 2013 on John Winyu’s show (รองหัวหน้าพรรคประชาธิปัตย์กล่าวในรายการ “เจาะข่าวตื้น ตอน 99″) stated:

“Recently, if we speak directly, they [Puea Thai] use little money. I am not saying we [the Democrats] use more money than them [Puea Thai]. [host interprets with statement "they are using less money"]. It has become inverted [host interprets and says "They don't need to use so much money?"] I say if it is like that then don’t say we lost because of money”. “For the last election, it may be because we actually used more than them. Therefore, don’t talk about this issue anymore."

Where in that does it say that Dems spent more money on campaigning. When ever, previously, we have talked about PTP spending money at elections it is always in relation to alledged 'vote buying'. So it is fair to assume that Korns response was with the same theme. Dems buy more votes...how many more times will I have to post this.

There always seems to be a missed principle in a democractic electorial process in these discussions; and that is votes are "earned." If a party wants to sit "on its butt" and not go after new voters, it's irrelevant whether those voters are "bought" or not. If you don't make an effort, you lose. But the effort the Democrats must make is to adjust their political agenda to ATTRACT new voters. If it takes a more populist or a liberal agenda to get more voters to gain a majority, then Democrats need to move toward a more moderate position to attract new voters. But what Suthep's platform has been is to deny voters any vote, to even deny candidates to register for the election. He seems only interested in power and not the hearts and minds of the voters.

bkkjames, on 24 Jan 2014 - 14:55, said:bkkjames, on 24 Jan 2014 - 14:55, said:

I will go on record and suggest turn-out will be much lower than the poll. Maybe JT can do a Poll about the Poll?

On the contrary, I believe that more people will turn-out so they can cast a NO vote as to make these elections null and void.

Assuming that there will be an election...........

When have you seen a demorcatic election ballot ask whether you agree with the election? An election ballot is used to VOTE for a candidate. If you want to spoil the ballot, ie., right remarks on it, etc., that's your right but it just doesn't get counted. Spoiled ballots do not void an election.

how can you find a safe place from a pack of rabid dogs otherwise known as Sutheps thugs

LOL if the so called Centre for Maintaining Peace and Order can't even protect themselves from a 'pack of rabid dogs', as you so eloquently put it, how are they supposed to maintain peace and order?

If CAPO proves itself incapable to maintain law and order under the State of Emergency, it gives the military entree to fill that role. And that would not be in Suthep's best interests.

" One anti-government news agency has heralded the "eviction" of CMPO from the military office as a sign that the armed forces are distancing themselves from the beleaguered government. "

Indeed, that likely is a factor in this. The army is clearly not in step.

Now that the location of the bunker has been chosen - reminding some perhaps of Berlin - we now enter the endgame which - incredibly - is an election ! An election that will result in constitutional paralysis. And the oppressive air of the emergency decree measures make it clear now more than ever before -

- the emergency - is actually the survival of the Yingluck administration.

I see only a constitutional paralysis if Suthep prevails as the Constitution will be suspended. How can you otherwise install an unelected "people's" committee to control the Government and electorial process? The PTP has played by the Constitutional rules - ironic isn't it? As far as the military is concerned, it seems perfectly in complete coordination with the Government and it has no cause to even listen to Suthep who is NOT A MEMBER OF THE GOVERNMENT. As ar as the State of Emergency is concerned, it is for the survival of a democractic state, for Thai people. Not for Suthep's survival.

Really, what's the point of asking whether elections should be delayed based on the spector of disruptions on election day? Suthep has made it clear he will block ANY election until he has control of the Government and election process via his people's committee. How can the Government believe Suthep won't dusrupt a rescheduled election in ad infinitum; Suthep will just continue to use civil disobediance and the denial of people's right to a free election mandated by the Constituion. If Suthep goes back on an agreement to a new specified election date with more dusruptions, what will happen? A State of Emergency already exists and he clearly disregards any civility. The only advantage to the Government to reschedule is that if Suthep reneges on his word, it has the moral authority to arrest him.

So the court just threw the case right back at the EC. Now what? Can the EC change the date without the government approval? If either side disagree with the other side what happens? Seems the court did a terrible job making a decision here.

Court clearly went against the Constitution but clearly decided that BOTH the Government and EC must agree to any change in election date. Mothing is thrown back to the EC. I would imagine if either side disagrees with a change, the mandated date stays in place. And all the Government has to do is abide by the Constitutional mandated date. Win - Win for the Government.

If courts are 'off limit' to the public does that mean even k. Suthep would not be able to go to court to acknowledge one more 'pre-meditated' murder charge?

He would have "prior permission from officials to enter."

My wife and I have three sons.

Can we not all go out together?

If you're farang, you don't count.

Gosh, all these violations of articles. It's a petty challenge. Only thing to say is that an election cannot happen fairly in Bangkok when a SoE prevents parties from gathering to campaign and rally. Using the SoE to manage a unstable situation seems reasonable. And stopping a govt from trying to organise an election safely is not a violation.

The real issue is, does Peau Thai have an advantage from skimmed rice scheme money?

I agree from a different perspective. The present S of E does not prevent any party from gathering to campaign because the Suthep demonstrations are not campagning for election. How can they when they chose not to register?

It is a little misleading to say that the state of emergency rule was not aimed at banning public gatherings or dispersing anti-government protesters. It can be used to ban protests in designated areas, establish curfews, and limit the number of demonstrators. Those are options which presently the government is choosing not to use.

1st class insurance is always handy.

But a 1st class insurcance doesn´t take away all the costs YOU will have to pay YOURSELF like the taxi or rental car and all the inconvenience it caused. Thailand is different

At home my first class insurance would provide me a car while mine is beeing repaired or compensate me with the amount that an equivalent rental car would be worth. When the car is new they even might compensate for the loss of value. It would be no big deal cause I could drive around with another BMW rental car, probably a higher spec. model from the dealer to convince me for the next buy. Here I get nothing, not from the insurance nor from the dealer, except that they repair my car.

Last time my Bimmer got scratched they kept my car for 7 days cause they realised that a spare part was missing when they had began their work. The girl that scratched my car said sorry, that´s all I got from her. Asking for compensation or playing the blame game wouldn´t have been very promising or reasonable and a waste of time.

And when you pay shitloads of money for your dream car and pamper it everyday then something like that is not beeing pedantic but fully understandable....it´s not a freakin Hilux

Just leave it, not worth any further time and effort.

Really...if you can afford a BMW with all the attendant taxes, maintenance, and auto insurance you should be satisfied from what you recover from your insurance to cover the "scratch." Maybe ask the woman to split the costs after you get an estimate buit if you want to go full monty on this, you may find more mysterious scratches on the car.

Thailand becomes a failed state, whatever that is ...

It only becomes a failed State if Yingluck voluntarily steps down and gives up the government. But then the whole establishment becomes a failure including the military and the police who failed at protecting democracy and perserving the rights of all Thai people. Denocracy is about taking responsibility for one's actions, maybe Thailand is not entitled yet to assume such burdens and fall back to a fuedal state.

"Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his ex-wife Pojaman Na Pombejra are in the commander-strategist team, which identifies the direction in which the government and the Pheu Thai Party should head." Is the Nation privy to what goes on in this "War Room?" I doubt it. So how does The Nation confirm such statements without otherwise being wishful thinking? Maybe it just asked Suthep who sees Thaksin conspiracies everywhere.

Quote " EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong said at a press conference yesterday that his agency had no authority to consider a request to approve additional loans to pay farmers owed money under the scheme. "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility," he said.

The EC's approval is required under Section 181 of the Constitution, which bans a caretaker government from making any decisions that could impose financial burdens on the next government". So on one hand section 181 of the constition states that a caretaker governement cannot make any decisions or impose a burden on a future government, yet at the same time they then add that "The matter is for the government to consider, and is [the government's] responsibility,"

Oh my I love these contradictions/hypocracy and simply feel sorry for the average Thai Farmer, be they yellow, white, red, purple or grey for that matter. When will someone in Thailand and Thai government and it's agenices be a normal adult and take some responsibility. Whilst the current governments pledgling scheme was a dummy from the start, the farmers should still be paid as the government was elected by the PEOPLE. It is besides the point if you are a winner or loser, or complain about vote buying and blah blah.. Face the facts that this is Thailand. We do exactly the same in the west re vote buying and then NOT delivering on election promises and the money dissapearing into the coffers to be never seen again. The only difference is, we say that, Oh yes, we will build a new road here and there, new hospitals, better infrastructure, transportation etc and then a lot of what is promised is dumped once the party is voted into power... No different and there is no argument, One is tangible in cash the other is "sometimes tangible in promises kept, it is still vote buying.

As the EC has does have the power to authorise these loans, they should do so for the benefit of the Thai nation as a whole. (As it stands they are effectively doing all they can to see Thailand go down the pipe due to some pompous ass elites who dont give two cares as to the rest of the NATION) Let the nation then vote the government out at the next elections. America has made their own people pay for failed policies, (and more then anyother country in history 4 years ago) as has England, Ireland and France. Is Thailand really that different from this point of view? I think not... Though my satangs worth is not yours... please go on...

I see them as not having the power to say no but to warn that if the loan goes ahead action could be taken. The same as in most countries a department or even a court cannot say something is actually ilegal. All they can do is warn that if it goes ahead it will go to court and in their view it would not be legal. That is the reason people are taken right through courts in many countries for fairly minor offences so there can be a precedent and clarity.

Do remember that the EC told Yingluck that she could not go forward to borrow funds for the rice subsidies unless the govenrment requested EC's approval. Now the EC says it doesn't have that authority BUT that the government does. Seems problem solved then. How does the EC's decision cause any obstacle to the Government? It actually allows the Government to move forward with borrowing. UNLESS the EC tells the government once again, it needs Consitutional Court approval? After which the CC will advise the Government that the CC doesn't have the authority? One must, however relunctantly, give Yingluck's administration a lot of credit for patience dealing with these "independent" agencies who seem only interested in creating barriers for effective government.