Plus

About turn - Plus, what about turn

This about turn:

From this:

Panlop to step in if Chamlong arrested

August 29, 2008

Panlop told me he was ready to be my replacement if police arrest me and other PAD leaders, Chamlong said at the rally inside the Government House compound.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...;keyword=panlop

To this:

"Pallop Pinmanee, a former deputy director of the Internal Security Operations Command, is another of Thaksin's latest allies. Pallop, who flew to meet him in Hong Kong last week, insisted Thaksin is 100 per cent loyal to His Majesty the King. Pallop was expected to be appointed as deputy director of the new ISOC to oversee the PAD protest. Pallop's move raised many questions, as he was PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang's classmate. Pallop had been expected to take over from the PAD leaders if they were jailed. Pallop was seen talking with Chamlong at Government House and declared he would be the next PAD leader. However there was a report that their relationship had turned sour. That's maybe the reason why Pallop switched sides."

November 21, 2008

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30089010

Speculations about Panlops rewards:

"Democrat Party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban said he believed if Pallop was to be appointed to ISOC, it was because he had flown to meet former prime minister Thaksin recently, and only Thaksin had the final say in such important appointments which are usually organised at Government House.

Maj General Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD leader, said his group would only sit at the negotiating table with the government, not the ISOC. He also refused to comment about the press statement that Pollop would take up the post of ISOC assistant director. Pollop said Cabinet would decide on the matter this week."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30088680

Panlop's plans at that time:

"Retired Army General Pallop Pinmanee wants to get back in action. He wants to be in the lineup of the Internal Security Operation Commander (Isoc) so he can restore law and order around Bangkok, and in particular to Government House, which has been occupied by the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy since August. That's what he says he will do."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30088750

And, finally, last time Panlop's name was in the news - when Thaksin relied on him as his witness.

"Thaksin told his supporters that said Gen Pallop Pinmanee former deputy director-general of the Internal Security Operations Command told him during his recent visit in China that Surayud summoned him for a meeting at a house on Sukhumvit Road and two privy councillors accused Thaksin of not being loyal to the monarchy."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30098582

>>>>>>

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Abhisit answers to Panlop.

As for Chamlong - what part did he play in forming Democrat lef coaltion? Even reds don't mention his involvement. How did you come to the conlcusion that Abhisit answers to him?

The Nation has opposed Thaksin's regime from the word go, from the days he was caught falsifying his asset statements and buying TV stations in the run up to the elections, from the days when he ordered secret and illegal investigation trying to prove that Nation editors are mafia engaged in all kinds of illegal activities and the hidden enemy of Thailand.

No wonder it has supported anti-Thaksin movement, though it was always sceptical of Sondhi.

As for poor quality - after attempted hostile takeover by one of Thaksin's ministers they were forced to restructure their Nationgroup that includes lots of other publications and what not. As a result The Nation, the English paper, was left financially on their own, without the support of the rest of the group, so they had to make severe staff cuts, so no proofreading of online breaking news, for example.

81% of people are aware of the existence of the current consitution amendment process - what's wrong with this number? I don't think 20% who don't pay any attention to politics or pissed off enough to answer "no" to any political question is fairly reasonable.

Maizefarmer, perhaps you missed Panlop's about turn - after a trip to Hong Kong last year he has become Thaksin's ally, he came back full of confidence in Thaksin and even wanted to restore "law and order" around govt house occupied by PAD at that time. In last days of PPP government there was even talk about re-appointing Panlop as a head of ISOC.

Thaksin's latest allegations against Prem, Surayud and Chanchai were all based on Panlop's accounts.

Re. spelling - I believe Pallop is how it spelled correctly if you transliterate from Thai to English, however it doesn't sound like that at all - same as Cholburi and Chonburi. The former is the correct spelling, the latter correct pronunciation.

Still, you said he was one of the guys who installed Abhisit to power and one of the guys Abhisit answers to. That's just nonsense.

If you want to see ideological connection between anti-communist drive in 70 and present day, why don't you look at Samak and Chalerm - two political leaders of the red party. Samak made his name during the crackdown on students and was rewarded with his first ministerial position (grade A Interior Ministry). Last year he denied that Thamassat tragedy had ever happened. And Chalerm was right there, in the police lines that stood and watched raging mobs lynching students, hanging them from the trees around Sanam Luang and burning them. Now he also denies anything had happend on that day, "one gun accidentally went off", I remember him saying.

These two were handpicked by Thaksin to lead PPP and later PTP, and ex-communists like Surapong and Chaturon had to accept their leadership, so much for their ideals.

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

Panlop once wanted to assume PAD leadership if Sondhi and co were arrested. It didn't happen, no one wanted him. Instead he cozied up to Thaksin and taken the red side.

Chamlong's "blood" needs to be substantiated. One thing to remember - it was before he seriously took to Buddhiism and renounced violence, he subsequently made a name for himself as Bangkok Governor and a leader of Phalang Dharma party who led anti-military uprising in 1992.

You said:

"the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat, and to who he now answers!"

Abhisit doesn't answer to Chamlong or Panlop and they didn't put him in power. Do you have any other "guys"?

I had problems with IE download, then copy pasted the address into Opera and dowloaded from there.

Yeah, but that dude from PTP already ruled listening to the people out.

He believes 45 people on the commitee already represent Thailand's population, no need for any other public input.

By all means do a search - the notes you are looking for are within the last the last 6months, or year at most.

What am I supposed to be looking for? Simplpy dig through 2,000+ of your posts?

What holds you from naming those individuals here?

You alleged something, it's YOUR responsibility to supply proof, not mine.

The BBC appears to favour the reds...

Appear?

Why do you think they wrote that fluffy piece on Kwanchai and Udon reds without ANY mention of a bloody lynch mob that started the cycle of political violence. It was less than a year ago.

Why do they talk about Kwanchai history as an independent radio DJ and no mention that he was paid a government salary at the time he was screaming from the truck to catch and kill yellows and promising money for their heads?

Why do you think it provides lots of quotes by reds - they call us sutpid, they call us buffaloes, they call us sub-human - without providing any actual evidence of their opponents saying anything like that?

As journalism it's absolutely abhorring.

Oh, and article itself is four months old and has been discussed elsewhere. What's the purpose of reviving it?

the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat

Care to substantiate your allegations?

How about Surayud, for example, who Thaksin named as a coup mastermind and who was appointed the PM by the junta? His father was a communist killed in those battles.

I think you really need to prove your point here.

Sorry about that thread, no one really has time to pause and think of Col Manas.

He's got nothing to do with this thread, btw, don't bring him up here for no good reason.

Flaming removed...

What did they say?

Shut the <deleted> up?

Maybe it was her Freudian slip.

That thread was shut down because Dee was the only one posting there, for months, talking to himself.

If you are looking for adrenalin rush you can always don a red shirt, go to Pattaya, and try to block Sukhumwit road ro something,

She said shooting of soldiers.

I don't know about that, I saw videos of reds throwing molotov cocktails at the soldiers and setting several of them on fire. I saw a taxi ploughing through the line and sending a soldier flying several meters into the air. There was a sound of gunfire, but I can't say I saw them shooting the soldiers. Quite possible, but I didn't see it.

Yeah yeah, I feel that injustice meted out to Palestinians shouldn't be forgotten, too. I think we should all really concentrate on that, and on Bush's foreign policy. It's also been really hot for the past couple of days, so I should we bring the plight of our civilisation into focus, too. All this burning of carbon fuels is the source of so many wars.

I believe Abhisit should be brought to International Court of Justice for not bringing charges against Bush and the zionists and they guy who invented internal combustion engine.

>>>>>

I don't think Abhisit has time to review drug wars with fully blown economic crisis, red shirts gone berserk, and PTP planning on amnesty for everyone while Newin is building up his own army or orks.

I hope the latest charges against the police who set up and killed that couple will make people to pause and rethink their support for that drug war. I don't believe the killers themselves will ever be punished, but people should realise what had happened and not allow history to repeat itself again. That's the best I can realistically hope for.

I don't know much about the Constitutional Court. For instance, what changes did Thaksin do when he came into power? And what changes did the junta do afterwards?

When he came to power the Const. Court was delibirating his asset concealment case. It was a debacle worth several thread by itself. Suffice to say that later on two judges came out and admitted they were pressured to aquit him.

I don't know that much about Attorney Generals either. But I know in the US, it is quite common for a new president to replace all of them.

He did so illegaly, the AG was eventually reinstated, after about a year or so. There were plenty of cases against Cabinet ministers that got lost in the process, many related to the new airport. Current AG was appointed by Samak and those cases still see little progress and some were dismissed.

Democracy is mainly about elections and a 1-person-1 vote.

This is simply wrong and totally indefensible.

Crislarsson is welcome to show the source of this "definition".

He's right that we expect democracy to be "liberal democracy". Ok, he got us, but since we don't want "illiberal democracy", we are not accepting it, no matter what the label or definition is offered.

>>>>>

I'd personally go with "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", btw.

But are yellow Thais the future of Thailand ?

Yes, to a degree that growing middle class represents any country's future.

I don't see Isanese farmers taking charge any time soon. Their feudal lords stake their claim on central power, though. Those guys scare the shit out me, too.

Nation is run by Suttichai Yoon, he apparently selected people with similar outlook towards democracy and progress. The flavor varies from one editor to another, and there are differences between opinion writers, but generally paper's overall content is fairly predictable.

Their own stance is that "neutrality" doesn't exist, that they have their own stand and they are not going to compromise on it.

Financially it's a publicly traded company, and once they fought off takeover bid by TRT ministers back in Thaksin's days.

Bangkok Post, btw, is a "side business" for Chirathiwat family, one of the richest in Thailand.

It is acceptable to western educated reds that scare the shit out of yellow Thais, that's the relation.

Scary ? I don't know. They just want Thailand to be part of the world, in the 21st century, not a fairytale kingdom.

I don't know in which part of the world threatening to blow up apartment blocks is acceptable, in 21 century. I know of some parts of the world that are considered civilised, where perpetrators would have been shot by snipers, but I haven't got PhD from Texas, what do I know!