Plus

As another poster pointed out, the manifesto of the Dems is true blue conservative.

You either don't read or have no built in aversion to lying without any shame.

What that other poster said was:

He is about as typically conservative as you can possibly be, by upbringing, education and convictions, in a party that has been founded as a conservative royalist party..

I was just about to point out that party and politicians are judged by their ideology, not upbringing and education, and here "dbrenn" cites this non-existent "manifesto".

That Wiki entry has been edited out, predictably.

One can get a glimpse of what it said less than two years ago, thanks to Thaivisa search facility:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Anti-coup-Le...15#entry1452315

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I'm not trying to argue a particular position here, just protesting against "Plus decides to summarily redefine political science".

People who were writing that wiki entry had a similar outlook. I don't know how is redefining political scence here, I see some unknown hacks editing wikipedia to reverse party's political label, though.

Democrat party was founded fifty years ago and no one from those days is around anymore. Chuan and Abhisit are two leaders that represent the party ideologically now.

Dems have been put in a social democrat camp on wikipedia, it's not just MY whim, though that might have been edited out, I don't keep up.

What are the chances (in percentage terms) that he will use that do-gooder social and liberal conscience to shut down our nightlife?

I think he avoids thinking about what you call "our" nightlife.

He's not a crusader, I think he sees himself as an enabler, just creating an environment where others can do whatever they want. He thinks that his job and his input is to create "correct" environmental variables.

your personal 50% can be centered on 55% left or 43 percenrt Right for example.

You may agree with one sides 2 points and abhor the other 15 points attached to that side,

and visa versa.

Think of this model - different forces pulling an object in different directions. Let's say something like a North-West force, South-East force etc, usually these forces are rougly equal, so the obects just hovers around the same place, maybe slowly gliding towards "progress".

Now imagine two really strong, overwhelming forces that are pulling in opposite directions, say East and West, then North-West force will not add any visible movement towards North, only contribute to the Western force. The object's movement becomes effectively binary, whatever North-South fluctuations are there become insignificant.

That's the situation with the Thai society is now. Yes, people themselves are not binary numbers, but the resultant movement is.

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The split is is not along democracy/dictatorship line, btw, it's a lot more fundamental than that, almost like archetypal good vs evil. So when lefties talk about representative democracy, they are introducing some non-bipolar force, but the movement in that direction is invisible, all we see that Thaksin's force got an extra push.

Representative democracy in itself looks fine by both reds and yellows. The contention is that yellows think about representing people, the government as a servant. The reds talk about giving absolute power to representatives.

Lefties, on the other hand, mean a "neutral" combination of the two, but when they are standing under huge Thaksin's banners it reads as support for electing masters, not servants of the people to the government.

That's Thai leftists, btw. I can't really think of western leftism that would throw unequivocal support behind a party controlled by richest capitalist in the country, with a history of some serious human rights abuses.

What countless military coups disturbing "democracy"?

You gotta love Plus and his dogma. A while back, he was swearing blind that the CDR did not have a nationalistic agenda, and that they were not speaking out against foreign ownership and other foreign expat and business rights at the time of the coup.

Small details like all the newspapers reporting identcally on the generals blundering, the alarm among the business community, the restrictions on capital movements, and the resulting tanking stock market, are neither here nor there as far as plus is concerned.

Why don't you address the issue in the original thread instead of dragging it here.

You didn't supply any evidence there, you are not supplying any evidence here either.

Foregn Business Act was drafted by Commerce Ministry and Thai Chambers of Commerce. National Assembly wanted a stricter version and junta appointed government withdrew it altogether rather than risk NLA pushing its own amendments through.

Generals had nothing to do with it.

Are you going to back up your allegations or jump off to another thread?

Does AV have any political beliefs at all?

In a western classification? He's closest Thailand has to social democrats.

It's "mansawirat" - vegetarian food but might include eggs. "Jae", or "kin jae", is a stricter diet without onions and garlic.

I think you better ask if they cook any "mansawirat" for you rather than trying to order anything special.

You can start with "chan kin mansawirat" and take it as far as your Thai will allow you.

I think it's water in your fuel tank. I know you think it's fine but undeground tanks at shoddy gas stations can get water in easily. I had that situation once, it's not life threatening, just take it to service center and let them drain all the fuel out, you also might bring your own canister first, to fill the tank after they are done.

You are entitled to see the world as black and white

It's not just how I see it, it's how it is.

There are millions of people in Thailand who don't profess either ideology but with every little action in their lives they play in the hands of one camp or another, most of the time unwittingly.

Most glaring example is Thai republicans, anti-monarchists and assorted lefties. They had their own agenda but they lent academic credibility to Thaksin's thrust for power, that's why they continue to piss off our yellow posters - despite numerous public denials they continue to support campaign for Thaksin's return. It appears they live in denial themselves - can you imagine what kind of clean up Thaksin would organise if he comes back, considering the number of his foes? That will be on top of his usual suppression of democratic rights and freedoms. Perhaps they think it would blend well with their own ideas on re-engineering the society, by force if necessary.

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The division has eased up a lot after Songkran, btw. Big camps are now repositioning for "after Thaksin" battle, PTP are quite a lonely bunch without any hope.

Sigh...

Thailand's experience of democracy and elected politicians (it's been more than 20 years, actually) has been disturbed by countless military coups, when extrajudicial powers decided to do so.

What countless military coups disturbing "democracy"?

Up until Prem's resignation Thailand has been ruled by democratically elected leaders for how many years? Does even count? Democratically elected PMs did occasionally disturb dictatorial rulers, like Pridi, or a couple of years before 1976 crackdown. And that's about it.

After Prem's resignation we had a long, uninterrupted era of politicians, and they've proven themselves beyond any doubt - worst scum of the nation, greedy leeches with no shame or remorse.

1997 Consitution was meant to give power to the people, not politicians, but now they hijacked even that agenda. They did all they could to subvert it prior to the coup, and they changed the tune only when faced with even more restricting 2007 version.

This is not exactly a fertile ground so that politicians can develop their potential, or their own policies when under constant threat.

What constant threat? They had way over a decade of developing and there isn't a single name worth mentioning among them. Abhisit entered politics just around 1992, and that's it. Not a single person you can trust, outside Democrat party.

What potential? Lie, steal, and plunder?

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Re. binary world - it is binary at the moment. Whichever way you want to pull, it will be helping red and obstructing yellow or vice versa. There's no third dimension to Thail politics now. Even complete inaction will be playing in only one side's favour.

Tough choice for fence sitters, but no one is having it easy, so stop whining.

Actually re-introduction of fractious politics is going to diffuse this polarisation, so it's not all hopeless.

That is only confusing if you ignore Thai history - from bureaucratic polity to a reluctant semi democracy where elected politicians are treated as a not very necessary evil, and who are not supposed to make policy decisions. At every step politicians are hindered, and if they develop political views that in parts may question the status quo - the machine of military-technocrat power balance will use every method to cut them back.

Thailand has twenty years experience with elected politicians and they have absolutely nothing to show for it. Even Thaksin, the greatest of them all, turned out to be a fraud. Every public opinion poll puts them at the bottom of the pile in terms of trust. But it's nice to know who exactly you are "campaigning" for - politicians, not the people. Typical red agenda.

Politicians never have any policies, btw, it's all done by bureaucrats, from planning to execution. The only input politicians have is at the Cabinet level - two or three "pro-active" ministers out of more than six hundred, including the senate.

And four hundred constituency MPs have nothing to do with bureaucratic polity whatsoever - they are legislative, not executive branch. It's not their job, and they have absolutely no qualifications to pass judgements on it. Only Cabinet members are given this power, and in practice most of them are not qualified either.

Apparently reds have no idea that there supposed to be separation between executive and legislative powers. They just pick up catchphrases that don't make any sense and are dropped after a couple of weeks, like "bureaucratic polity" or "true democracy".

It appears the messier this government becomes, they more Thaksin is held up as a straw man.

What exactly Abhisit has blamed on Thaksin? How exactly he uses him as a straw man? Did you just make it up?

Yep - you got it. Thaksin had faults, but he is held responsible by Abhisit,..

Held responsible for what, exactly?

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Straw man argument is blaming you opponent for something he didn't do, just like you blame Abhisit for nothing now.

Yes, if he had done that it would have been wrong, but he didn't, so?

Cue a huge red rally protesting against unelected powers meddling in politics. Or maybe not.

If there was a competition for the most expensive and least convenient Internet entertainment setup in Thailand this Slingbox could easily take the first price.

Since it's live, all prime time TV is shifted by twelve hours and you need to program it in the evening so that it would record what you want the next day, so you constantly need to keep track of dates, times and channels, and never miss a thing.

Why not just download all that stuff like everybody else? If you don't like it for free, you can always sign up for usenet or private trackers, AND you can have all your shows in High Definition, too, AND you don't need to pay even 3,000 baht a month for the Internet package, 590B for 2.5 mbps from True is completely adequate since you don't need to stream anything in real life, and you can get 1,800B UBC Gold for sports and news and Thai subtitles or dubbed cartoons for the family.

There should be some FN+key combination to automatically make LCD your primary display, and some Nvidia/Ati/Intel settings program in Control Panel to tweak it, would work better than fiddling Windows display options.

I've got to learn how to use it.

So far it says it doesn't understand anything I say.

I thought it was a problem only with people, now computers, too.

What's your desktop resolution? Do all the icons look ok? What about pictures? Does pixellation appear only in videos?

There are hundreds of satellite/cable companies in Thailand, none, however, would offer you legal HBO/ESPN/Premier League football.

South African company subscription costs a lot more than UBC, and it's illegal, and there will be no Thai subtitles/dub, and there are less channels.

..the problem Thai politics has faced increasingly - a socially permitted belittling of politicians, so that equally corrupt bureaucrats and generals are allowed to decide upon policy, and the electorate of Thailand has no say in how the country is run.

Just as confusing as red claims for "true democracy". The bottom line is clear, though - save the politicians from the public.

This will the next big battle, imo - people vs politicians.

This guy may dress in black T-shirt. But i am sure the police found a red underwear under it. Or red sock, or red keychain, or maybe he carry a red hundred baht bill. Ah you see, he is a RED.

Or maybe he is an innocent passersby who has nothing to do with all those reds behind him whatsoever. Maybe he is hunting for his lunch.

Innocent until presumed guilty, right?

Current status suits Thais very well.

Cambodians want to fully annex all the disputed territories and Thailand is having none of it.

Maybe you have to look at it as not stealing but "sharing".

There are so many loopholes in copyright laws that there's no point in talking about fairness. Lately I haven't seen any creativity in entertainment industry, for example. It's all just ripoffs, even if properly copyrighted.

People learn how to "create" movies and music in big schools and they don't pay any royalty to inventors of hip hop or romantic comedies.

This issue can be debated forever, there's no obvious answer acceptable to everyone, just acknowledge that there are arguments for both sides.

If producers of fake bags can make and extra hundred baht by sticking on ten baht labels on their generic products - who can blame them? They are not cheating their customers, not selling their fakes as genuine products (most of the time, anyway).

I don't fully understand the argument that football fans must pay money to their clubs for the privilege to wear t-shirts with a club name on it. When did this become a law? At school I spent a lot of time drawing my team logo on all kinds of things, notebooks, desks, even walls. Should I have paid royalty for that, too?

Taking someone's intellectual property is theft.

It is often said that Thai society is two hundred years behind the west and two hundred years ago there was such thing as intellectual property theft, so there.

II think freely copying and distributing of "intellectual property" made a big contribution to technological development, pretty much like Open Source software now.

There was plagiarism, though.

Did Jatuporn surrender?

Last I heard he was still claiming parliamentary immunity.

Speaking of double standards - Democrat MP, Somkiat, faced the charged for his role in PAD protests without hiding behind his MP status.

What do you mean very pixellated?

I hope it's not youtube on 52'' lcd TV - that would be very pixellated no matter what you try.

How about Win7 Sample video, 30 seconds of wildlife, it's in Libraries/Videos. Is that pixellated, too?

It's really not that big of a deal. Sure tourists see it "everywhere" but I don't know any locals who'd buy their stuff in those places, especially watches.

Locals buy lots of fake jeans and bags, true, but it's a different market altogether, no effect on sales of real LV or even Levis.