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How refreshing that there are some on this forum that is now seeing the deeper side of things regarding the reds

I concur.

and are actually seeing and understanding their plight against the elite's brainwashing of the poor...

But you have completely lost me here.

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It should be "plight of being brainwashed by red leaders".

Democracy is mainly about elections and a 1-person-1 vote. If the elected leader is corrupt and violator of human rights, it does not make it less democratic.

It's not a confusion over definitions, it's just bullshit, pardon my French.

The bidding was held by the Financial Institutes Development Fund (FIDF), which was supervised by Bank of Thailand.

And at that time Thaksin had full power to dismiss or appoint BOT Governor, so...?

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If charges against Manas were not laid five years ago, how is it Abhisit's fault for not bringing it up now? He's got a lot on his plate as it is. Kru Sue killings are mostly history, those pages are unlikely to be revisited, ever.

Drug killings, however, are continuing to be investigated, and that's what this thread is about, as SJ reminded us several times.

The context was asking Thaksin if he'd allow more constitutional oversight over the government in spirit of democracy and "good governance". The quote was part of his reply.

Because elections do not replace judicial system.

That's correct. And Thailand did have an independent judiciary. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

No, Thailand's justice system was severly compromised during Thaksin's years. Only Administrative court maintained some degree of independence of the governmnet, but its scope was limited.

Constitution court, which was designed to keep politicians in check, was completely subverted by Thaksin.

And that's just courts, don't forget that they can't do anything without investigating and prosecuting bodies, bodies that were under complete political control. The police wouldn't investigate, the Attorney General's Office wouldn't prosecute.

Thaskin illegally removed the inconvenient Attorney General, for example, it took years to reinstall her. Thaksin controlled Senate voted his approved National Counter Corruption Commissioners that were supposed be watching him. First thing they did was to get busted for illegally increasing their salaries, years have been wasted again to get NCCC back on track.

The fact that Abhisit is a new face ignores the fact that he goes to the corrupt old faces to get installed and keep his position. How do you expect things to be different this time around?

But THEY ARE different!

Unlike Thaksin's years when there was a corruption schandal hitting news every week, it's very quiet on that front now.

The difference is that Newin has to hide his schemes from Abhisit now, while back in TRT days he'd got the ideas from the PM himself, when plenty of government policies were designed specifically to steal a lot of money.

This is Thailand. There IS NO RIGHT SIDE.

You mean Thais as a nation do not have a concept of right and wrong?

Maybe the problem is that many Thais do not want to be on the right side, as the wrong side pays better.

Thais should be united by common goals, then they'd start listening to eachother, then democracy can start developing - they'd respect eachother's opinions, respect differences of opinions, and find ways to select their leaders acceptable to everyone.

Right now half the country's goal is to serve interests of Thaksin. The other half puts interests of the country first. They would never be reconciled.

Politicians are mostly self serving, and they are in a position to influence the public - that's another force pulling in a different direction.

Abhisit's lot employ the services of a notoriously corrupt Godfather ex-TRT/PPP crony , it's called pragmatism!!!

Newin SWITCHED his allegiances, he refused to participate in Thaksin's game that was leading to destroying the country. Newin is not running around the world, inciting revolutions. Do you see the difference? Ideological difference?

Nowadays it doesn't work this way anymore, first they are too many and second they don't even join Thailand universities, they study in England, USA, Australia ... and when they come back they have great expectation but little understanding of (and honestly little time for) the "Thai way".

Actually, I talked to a number of PAD supporters and that's what scare them the most. Thailand is changing.

During Songkran riots I read an interview with some red woman who set up roadblock at Ding Daeng, she had a PhD from a western university. Yes, that's scary - half wits without knowledge of either East or West trying to start a revolution in the name of a crook and blow away all those who disagree.

Thaksin has a Phd from the US - not a yota of respect for human rights or democratic ideals, and he wanted to shape Thailand it his own vision. Yes, these guys who got education by simply paying for it are scary.

Actually, TRT was dissolved not for electoral fraud itlsef, but for doing nothing about it. Chaturon, their leader at the time, sealed their own fate when he testified that everyone was aware of the case but no one has done anything to rectify the mistakes for over a year after it had gone public.

Should these guys be excused now?

I don't think demonstration is the proper way to express one's political opinion, election is

Before people take to the streets they try to express their opinions via media and civic organisations. It's when the govt refuses to listen they show up in numbers, progressively growing until the govt gives in or orders a crackdown.

PAD has openly denounced four second democracy that takes away your voice for four years, and all those opposing Thaksin base their objection on the same premise - the govt has to listen to the people everyday, elections are not an excuse to behave like a dictator.

To the OP - the proposal stops at point 1. There's no neutral ground for that non-existen charismatic leader. Doing things right means siding with yellows. I know it's unacceptable to many, but there's simply no other way - you have to do the right thing, regardless of the color. Sneaking through unnoticed will no work, you'll get labelled one way or another faster than you can open your mouth.

Hmm, a month ago they'd expect 200,000. Now it's only 20k. What does it say about the number of followers? They might underestimate the attendance intentionally - that would give them an excuse to declare that the movement is back on track and growing. ]

They should be comparing to pre-Songkran rallies, not to their "estimates".

Who decides if they are qualified or not? The senate thought they are ok, some journalists are not entirely happy, but none have gone ballistic as those internet bloggers from AHRC, that's why it's not in the news anymore.

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The idea of Thai Senate is to be a non-partisan body overseeing parliament, the experience of the first two senates under 1997 constitution has proven that it doesn't work, that political parties find ways to control the senate. Appointing half the senators was proposed to counteract politicians there. Note that the only senators ever standing up to the government, the "group of 40", are appointed.

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Parliament oversight of NHRC appointments would defeat the purpose - they are supposed to protect the people from parliament (or the govt, to be exact).

Thaksinistas are happy to be used.

Re Newin's corruption and Democrats - we discussed this already, it was mostly about pragmatism.

Basically, you can accuse Democrats of corruption when they start sweeping Newin charges under the carpet. He is under investigation in some cases already, show us Democrat interference if you want to prove they embrace corruption.

I get a feeling that Dbrenn picks up the same topic in several threads without ever finishing it, or even acknowledging that it has been discussed elsewhere.

Because elections do not replace judicial system.

What Thaksin said is this:

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."

Which is pretty much correct. Democracy is not a goal. The goal is good governance, and democracy is the means believed to lead to good governance.

If you want to clarify Thaksin's quote - where did he say anything about good governance?

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Thaksin tried to establish effective governance, where there's no opposition, no red tape, and things get done fast. He wanted to emulate Singapore's success, sometimes openly setting it as a benchmark.

He could have succeeded if, unlike Singaporean leaders, he wasn't utterly corrupt. Even then Thailand has a long democratic tradition that couldn't be pacified by "national progress". Thais demand responsibility from their governments, they are not going to roll over and play dead to get a bone.

I don't know the details of all the other crimes. But how come the land controversy was picked first. It is such a weak case, and the conviction only made the Supreme Court look bad.

The land was purchased above market value. Bank of Thailand is an independent entity from the government. And BoT is still saying today that nothing was wrong with the bidding process.

Why are you so sure it was a weak case? What do you know about it?

Here's a clue - Bank of Thailand wasn't even involved.

Ahh, forget it, you'll probably never get it right, too fixated on clearing Thaksin's reputation.

Right, the point being that what is rude by Bangkok standards is sometimes acceptable in Isan and one has to look beyond dictionary definitions and words. Would the woman in question use the same mun/man if she was in Bangkok? Probably not.

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I guess sometimes Isanese might proudly display their roots, in jest, by intentionally shocking Bangkokians with language they don't normally use even at home.

Bottom line - context is very important, and is missing from the OP.

These are the questions that throw NTC brains in stupor.

I wouldn't cheapen my wounded pride by keeping five baht tip.

Give them a break. It's nice to believe that all people have equal social status, or that the folks on the lower rungs are just as polite and respectful. Sometimes they aren't, sometimes are and they try their best but come up short, probably because their definition of polite is not the same as, say, Teacup's family.

To the OP - accept it as a sign of their perception of reality. You can possibly stop them from adressing you this way, but the underlying cause - they don't value you too much, will still be there. The symptoms would eventually manifest themselves one way or another.

Maybe when you consider it carefully you won't be trying to become "equal" there, sometimes this extra effort is just not worth it.

There were several arrests made after that incident at Interior Ministry. I haven't heard that people caught on camera and later arrested denying their affiliation with red shirts.

And I think it does require some serious evidence to declare that Abhisit is lying about his personal experiences on that day, and not just exaggerating, but making up the whole "My car has been attacked" story.

GPRS/EDGE revenues are too small to be a reason for delay, and the delay is not the work of TOT, it's the National Telecommunications Commission that won't issue the licenses, dragging the process for years and years.

Why exactly are they are so slow is anyone's guess, perhaps they are pressured by TOT to wait until it's ready to compete with AIS and Dtac whose 3g systems are ready to run, but, generally, NTC and TOT are quite often at loggerheads on other issues, so it's difficult to say how much pulling power TOT has there.

I think it's just the all-pervading ignorance - none of them has enough knowledge to find a proper way to milk this cow, to make profits off 3g, to create a sustainable revenue stream. They are afraid that their chosen 3g solution would become obsolete before it brings any profits.

I believe the correct language to use with nurses when you want something to be done fast is "stat". That might work, if Ranongrak the nurse received proper training.

The reason things are not going anywhere with TOT is that Ranongrak was shit scared to meet them in her four months in office, she was afraid they'd start talking technology and stuff, not bandages and needles.

The ICT mininster is brought to you courtesy of a very imporant coalition party. Not only she is a trained nurse, she is also a wife of a very powerful Korat politician. Two in one deal.