northernjohn

3 years jail or 6000 bht fine, yep that would be a difficult decision for the perps, that huge fine of 6000bht will surely deter further offenders who are raking in bags of cash

Sarcasm I love it.

Do you think they actually believe the 6,000 baht fine will make an iota of difference?

If they admit they are guilty will it be cut in half?

I think the "vacation areas" of Thailand are very nice for a vacation.

I do not think the "vacation areas" are the best places to retire or reside.

Unless you have a need to be surrounded by foreigners that are just like yourself.

I think it is better to live in and learn about Thailand.

and then visit the tourist areas when you need a break.

You are right to a point. There coes a tinme in some of are lives when we want to settle down with every thing near at hand as traveling is no longer enjoyable. Also we are really not interested in village activities.

that is one of the beautiful things abut Thailand you can have either one or a mix of both.

Well I did not move here for any of the stated reasons. I moved here because I liked the difference in cultures. I am not a live in a rut type guy.65 years of it was enough. I also enjoy the opportunity to travel around Asia relatively cheap. I found a Thai wife who I had to draw the line with in terms of things she was doing for me. Such as I can pull up my own pants up. Back home the way she treats me women would call it abuse by me. Here it is abuse if I don't let her do things for me. She is 57 and has family values that I very seldom saw back home.

I am sad to see some of them dissipating in the younger generation. Materialization moving in.

Geez, man, give it a rest. I've been around Thais long enough to know when someone is making stuff up (quite common on TV). Firstly, a darker skin Thai girl will want lighter skin just like a fat girl in the west wants to be skinnier. It's a feminine beauty thing, nothing to do with racism as we define it in the west. I know plenty of darker skinned Thais and by their title and position, they certainly do not get looked down upon. Now among friends, a Thai girl will certainly tell her friend "hey, you're getting darker. Did you hang out in the sun?" Or "hey, you've gain some weight. Maybe you need to cut down on the som tum." The MaeJo dude has an agenda, always has.

Being fat is a choice as no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to eat too many calories while being "light or "dark" skinned is not a choice as "you" were born that way.

And "definition of racism" in the west is basicly this: if you are "white" you are a racist regardless of what you say or do. If you are anything but "white" then you are never racist regardless of what you say or do.

"Being fat is a choice as no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to eat too many calories"

That statement alone makes anything you have to say very questionable.

Being "fat" as you call it, is very rarely, if ever a choice.

Two people can consume the exact same number of calories and one may gain weight and the other may lose weight.

Metabolism can have a lot to do do with your weight.

The causes of obesity may be genetic, medical, psychological or just a matter of a lack of control, self discipline or control.

I have never had a weight problem, but I can understand those who do.

I truly believe that most "fat" people do not choose to be fat.

Why do you think there is a multi billion dollar weight loss industry?

There may be a few, but damn few people who choose to be overweight and unhealthy.

I don't think you think....

Well said.

I did not choose to be over weight yet I am.

Part of it is I use food to ease tensions much as smokers, drinkers and drug users do.

Also it seems to run in my family. I believe part of it is the surrounding culture and the ease of obtaining not good food for us on demand at the various stores and fast food franchises.

One other thing about over weights who says what your proper weight should be. I am a large framed man and at my best operating wait would be considered about 15 Kilograms over weight by the various scales people use.

Geez, man, give it a rest. I've been around Thais long enough to know when someone is making stuff up (quite common on TV). Firstly, a darker skin Thai girl will want lighter skin just like a fat girl in the west wants to be skinnier. It's a feminine beauty thing, nothing to do with racism as we define it in the west. I know plenty of darker skinned Thais and by their title and position, they certainly do not get looked down upon. Now among friends, a Thai girl will certainly tell her friend "hey, you're getting darker. Did you hang out in the sun?" Or "hey, you've gain some weight. Maybe you need to cut down on the som tum." The MaeJo dude has an agenda, always has.

Being fat is a choice as no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to eat too many calories while being "light or "dark" skinned is not a choice as "you" were born that way.

And "definition of racism" in the west is basicly this: if you are "white" you are a racist regardless of what you say or do. If you are anything but "white" then you are never racist regardless of what you say or do.

You obviously lived in a different west than I did.

As for the color of your skin There are lots of North Americans who use lotions and tanning machines to darken their skin that is a choice. I knew one girl who it was an addiction she looked like a little old lady.

I have traveled and lived in many places , USA, Europe and now thailand. be "international" minded is not for everybody . majority of people, especially the US guys , want stay in their US home. I have heard some US guys saying "I can not stay away more than 2 weeks from my town, after that I become home sick " (the guys came from a shit lost place in the middle of the USA. )

the other thing I have noticed, US people come to Thailand, but when you say something bad about the USA, they are very upset and moderator ban us (USA moderator of course ) . if USA is sooooo

much better, take your bag and go home, nobody force you to stay in Thailand . the mafia IRS and the US government is welcoming you back, think all these taxes they will take from your pocket for their little drones used for a good kill ! is that not awesome?you pay anyway on your worldwide income so better to stay in the USA.

so go home dude, just go home and have a happy long life in front of your UHD TV and your big fridge filled with beers and frozen food. maybe some half ton fat Chicks will become your girlfriend or wife . God bless america!

for my part, I don't pay tax on my worldwide income which make my life tax free as I m taxed on residence(no residence = no tax report =no tax = f.... u all! ) . for us life is good in thailand but I understand the pain that US people have to go through. I'm so sorry for you that you were born on the wrong side of this planet but you got the government you deserve.

Your meds are having serious side effects, please see your physician......

Just popped in to see if the thread was any where near the topic. Read the self appointed "VIPinthailand" didn't even have the curtsy to capitalize the T in Thailand. Notice his preoccupation with tax and thought what a sad life to live when the need not to pay it is such a big part of your life.

Forgot to mention for all practical purposes I have lived here 8 years and am delighted with it. No intention of moving back. One more thing I can afford to live back in North America it is not a money problem for me. I don't need the services offered in many bars here in Thailand and am a happily married man to a Thai lady.

Once received a credit card 4 months late. Had already canceled it and had one sent to my sister and she sent it special delivery took about a week. Still waiting two years from both the States and Canada.

How can a place be ''beautiful' when its hitting 40c on most days and humidity 90+%

What an awful morning in CM ., its in the high 30's already and still rising

Played golf yesterday surrounded by trees, water and distant mountains. No houses in view. To me, that's beautiful. (golf was distinctly average but a bad day on the course beats a good day in the office, hands down)

But if you dislike heat and humidity is it possible you have hauled up in the wrong place??

Well he is certainly in his rights to have his opinions. How ever I find them to be incredible coming from a member who has been here since 2007. Maybe some one pissed in his Wheaties.

did you know that it was OK to go for a nice walk with out having to take time off trying to hide a ball in a hole and then when you find it do the same thing all over again.

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Depends if you like slow, uncomfortable bus journeys or slow uncomfortable boat journeys.

I thought they had opened a decent bus from Chiang Mai to L P about 6 months ago.

The one that only takes a snappy 22 hours?

Rather you than me.

You could have said yes. Is there any thing you don't complain about?

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Depends if you like slow, uncomfortable bus journeys or slow uncomfortable boat journeys.

I thought they had opened a decent bus from Chiang Mai to L P about 6 months ago.

The slow boat may be an enjoyable trip provided it is not packed tight with passengers.

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The air in LP was WAY worse than I've ever seen it in CM. There was much more burning in a smaller space. In fact, LP had the most smoke I've ever seen anywhere. I've always wanted to go back at a different time of year.

Can you give me some dates. We are looking at a visit in January. Vientiane has also been recommended to me. We are not looking for alcohol or an exciting night life. Just some relaxing times with different low key things to do and see.

LP is one of my favourite places to visit. But If you need someone to explain to you why it's worth visiting a Unesco heritage site in a beautiful riverside setting with bags of interesting things to see, charming people, delicious food, a wonderful laid-back atmosphere, and - as has been mentioned - cheap, tasty beer, then it's probably not for you.

ok, apart from Unseco, you've just described Chiang Mai!

You really think so? Chiang Mai is o.k., and has some nice spots, but it's big city now...nothing like it was before. You need to go see LP yourself to really understand. If you're looking for nightlife and the bar scene you're probably not going to like it, if you want to relax at a small café or bar next to the Mekong, go on a boat ride or see some jungle water falls you'll have fun. It's a little bit difficult to compare.

Unseco is there for a historical reason. So far it sounds like a place to enjoy some history and just relax. If you are not interested in history it might not be for you. I have looked at some of the hotels and some of them involve a ferry to get to from the city. I imagine there are some down town. I don't know. I am going back to read the rest of the opinions.

Its so easy to draw conclusions:

for example I have never had food poisoning or anything like it in the 7yr I have been in Thailand.

I eat street food regularly; and cheaper end restaurants; I cook at home in an outside kitchen with moths, flying ants, jingjok poo where you cant see it, I shop at the market, tesco and makro.

I never shop at Rimping; Tops nor do I care to eat at mid to high price range restaurants.

I am a habitual fingernail biter and pretty much hands on diy and gardening.

conclusion: (from the above) I have a pretty good tolerance to bugs OR dont shop or eat at upmarket places!!!!

Yes of course thats a ridiculous conclusion...............................................and so is putting Rimping on the chopping block; completely unfair and unfounded OP

It is fair and apparently founded. Because you practice poor personal hygiene and have built up a tolerance to bacteria, fecal matter, ants, moths, finger nail clippings, etc that's your choice. We don't live by the rules that you have chosen for yourself nor do we want them sprung on us without our knowledge

That is what I referred to in an earlier post. Many of us older people grew up with out all the special attention to hygiene and have developed a resistance to it. The food poisoning rate will not go up for the Thais as they age as they are used to it. But the rate for the younger foreigners will increase as they age.

Women motorcycle cops in Japan can ride circles around the best of us. These tiny women push big 750 Hondas around the tightest slalom courses at speeds I don't like to ride straight roads!

Can't see why the Thai women couldn't do the same. Check out the woman at 07:02 seconds;

After 40 years on a bike, with American Motorcycle Assoc. classes, four days at the California Superbike School, and the Swiss Alpine Racing School, I thought I could ride. Wrong.

So I signed up for a three-week 8-hours a day motorcycle school in Japan. NOW I can ride a motorcycle, If the Japanese can teach me, and their tiny women how to handle a big bike (and picking up a fallen bike IS required for the Japanese bike license exam) the Thai women certainly can learn to ride!

Well that was certainly impressive. Not having any expertise on this kind of thing I was wondering if the roll bars served any purpose other than a psychological one?

IMO--to be honest, although hygiene standards here in Thailand are not what they are in the West, or in a perfect World anywhere like what they should be--but, having worked, and lived for on and off 20 years in India--I find LOS, during the 15 years that I have been here, almost spotlessly clean in comparison; the Thais, also, do have a basic grasp of what is meant by Hygiene--sadly, the Indians, in general do not. Apart from a couple of minor cases of 'the Runs' or an upset stomach I have been relatively 'Trots-Free' in Thailand--I caught Amoebic Dysentry on 2 occasions and countless cases of days spent as near to a toilet as possible during my time in India; many times train or bus journeys had to re-scheduled due to uncertainty whether my arse was going to explode.

Takes me back to when I was a young lad growing up. We had a man coming around delivering eggs and another delivering bread along with one delivering milk. Also we had an ice chest instead of a refrigerator. Certain times of the year are potatoes would be delivered. We all lived through those harrowing experiences and none of us got sick.

Rivers aren't going away.

The smoke can.

Is that simple enough for you?

How is it working out for you?

So you are reduced to making up theoretical scenes.

Here is a reality for you.

My boy drowned in a river. I am not on a crusade to put down rivers. We all die. How is none of my business unless I am responsible for any part of it.

I'm sorry you lost your child, but what on earth that has to do with the topic is beyond me.

You are of course entitled to tell anyone whatever you like.

Just don't expect them to agree with it (or in this case, understand it).

As for the correction, you might at least portray yourself as being somewhat less "I'm alright Jack" if you at least knew some of the basics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

I will make it simple for you. You claim the smog can kill I claim the rivers do kill. I do not go on a crusade about it you go on a crusade about what could happen.

If that is over your head so be it. I can't make it any simpler than that.

........ Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

Sheesh! So now we have people who aren't Thai, don't even live here, and aren't even here now, complaining about here.... telling those of us who ARE here how things should be.

Mods, PLEASE! Create a separate sub-forum and get these agitators out of here! Give them their own space to post that doesn't interfere with those of us who are content living in Chiang Mai.

Excuse me? I've been visiting Chiang Mai several times a year for more than two decades and I would like to retire there.

I'm entitled to comment whether you like it or not.

So maybe you and your chums should ask for a private "We love Chiang Mai and nothing is wrong with it forum", or better still set up your own.

In the mean time, deal with it.

Sure had me fooled. with all your bashing I thought that you would never even want to visit it much less live here.

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

There is not enough of Thai bashers here to hurt any thing but the bar industry. Look around there is already more housing and restaurants here than the population can sustain. If it is such a serious health issue why are people here? You might want to investigate healthier climates there are lots of them and lots that make are's look good. Perhaps whining and sniveling on Thai Visa will help you I doubt it just makes you feel good to condemn a culture that has been going for hundreds of years. I have been coming to Chiang Mai for 10 years I was here during the bad season in 2007 I lived through that with no health problems. I have been here permanently for 4 or 5 years still no health problems.

If it is bad as you say why did you and your fellow complainers come here. Did you all wake up one morning and say I think I will move to a location that is no good for my health? Did you all goo ogle

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

And say ha that is the place for me?

The big question I have is why do you not admit that Farongs with their vehicles also contribute to the smog only unlike the farmers you do it year round.

(1) It is, whether you like it or not, a serious public health issue, and it needs to be addressed. I wonder if you'd be so defensive if you or your nearest and dearest were diagnosed with lung cancer? Or would you blame it on something else, viz:

(2) Vehicle emissions are a drop in the ocean compared to the burning, but yes, there are many things they could do to improve that situation also. Having said that, foreigners do not tend to drive knacked old songtaews and pickups that spew out unfiltered toxins.

(3) it's farang not "farong".

I realise that you are of the opinion that if you are OK then it should be fine for everyone else. Well newsflash, I don't even live in Thailand, but I do like Chiang Mai and I think its residents deserve better even if you don't.

So you are reduced to making up theoretical scenes.

Here is a reality for you.

My boy drowned in a river. I am not on a crusade to put down rivers. We all die. How is none of my business unless I am responsible for any part of it.

I would suggest you warn all your relations not to live in Chiang Mai. I will tell mine that for me it is a great place to live and has about a 6 week give or take period of smog. Some days are better than others and some days are worse than others.

I also note you have to attack my spelling. Boy that sure proves your point.

I bet in August you would complain about the disel smoke from songthaew's. Omitting the farong driven personal vehicles.

OP the problem with your idea is you are applying (quite rightly) something called logic.

And sadly until logic becomes part of the culture Thailand will never move foreward.

A full DNA rewiring is needed to reboot this lot. Don't hold your breath (unless its in the thick of the smog).

I don't think a reboot of that lot will help. they joined Thai Visa to complain the reboot brought them here already.

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry.

I'm sure it would hurt property rentals, shops, and other businesses including the whole of the hospitality industry.

This is an excellent summation of the situation:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

It cuts to the core issue, which is that it is a serious public health issue.

Why do you not care about that?

There is not enough of Thai bashers here to hurt any thing but the bar industry. Look around there is already more housing and restaurants here than the population can sustain. If it is such a serious health issue why are people here? You might want to investigate healthier climates there are lots of them and lots that make are's look good. Perhaps whining and sniveling on Thai Visa will help you I doubt it just makes you feel good to condemn a culture that has been going for hundreds of years. I have been coming to Chiang Mai for 10 years I was here during the bad season in 2007 I lived through that with no health problems. I have been here permanently for 4 or 5 years still no health problems.

If it is bad as you say why did you and your fellow complainers come here. Did you all wake up one morning and say I think I will move to a location that is no good for my health? Did you all goo ogle

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/820084-risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/

And say ha that is the place for me?

The big question I have is why do you not admit that Farongs with their vehicles also contribute to the smog only unlike the farmers you do it year round.

My GF summed it all up best - "Up Country People". Where she comes from (South) all the farmers in the area each hire a local tractor each year and they plough everything back into the ground. She is not being 'superior' when she says all the farmers around here (including in Myanmar and Laos) are not eductaed and are backward - they are uneducated and ignorant - ANd there are more and more of them growing more and more crops every year. The only way to solve this problem is to educate and bring them forward - and even if this was does well and quickly it will take years. Like her I do not believe that will ever happen - so the solution to the problem (for us) is to move. Maybe if/when a lot of Farangs move away from Chiang Mai they will finally address the problem

You have a false self of importance maybe? Why would a lot of Farangs leaving be a cause for concern? I think that many Thais would consider it a cause for celebration, and with so many daft posts on here, yours included, I would tend to agree.

By the way, your girlfriend sums up what most Southern Thais think, namely that Northerners are thick. By their reckoning most Southeners would find it hard to believe that here in the North we have universities, doctors, teachers, scientists, architects and engineers.

You are quite right when you say that your wife is not being 'superior' when she says that all northern farmers are uneducated and ignorant. Quite clearly she is being bigoted.

The worst thing about people saying that they're going to leave is ...... they invariably don't. Let's hope that isn't true in your case. If you do actually decide to go, let us know if you need any help moving.

You seem to have a bit of self importance yourself. A large chunk of expats moving elsewhere would put a dent in the local economy. I doubt you'd make up for it on your own

Why are you defending this stupid burning with such passion?

Why are you defending your use of vehicles is not contributing to the problem?

If a large number of Farongs left I am quite sure it would hurt the bar industry. It would be nice if the farmers stopped burning their fields but they won't until they are shown hands on where they can do it another way and make more money. Also it would be nice if there was no forest fires it would be nice if we did not have a heat inversion shield holding much of it in. It would be nice if we didn't have so many vehicles on the road. It would be nice if we had a better system for fighting forest fires and the countries around us did to.

A lot of things would be nice and as long as the lack of them doesn't spoil my life and turn me into a Grouchy old Thai basher I will stay here and put up with the 4 to 6 weeks of smog. Besides some of it is in hot wheatear and the air con weeds it out.

Typical no minded posters. Nine moths why haven't the new government solved all the problems and wrongs in Thailand.

Never mind the fact that they have been told there will d=still be problems after the election which is about 10 months away. The no minds think it only takes a day.

Don't know what kind of education system they come from but it is defiantly not even as good as Thailand's.

How many of you obviously uninformed people wonder why they would start a village with out electricity?

Keep on living your fairy tale lives where a snap of the fingers by one man immediately solves all the problems in Thailand and makes them the most advanced corruption free country in the world.

Sorry to the two or three posters who had intelligent answers.

The Art museum on Changklan in between The ShangriLa and the Empress hotel same side of the street. It looks like a museum on the outside. Big White building sorry I can not be more precise with the location.

It has some fantastic opportunities for pictures with you being a part of it and looking perfectly natural. I would recommend a group of three some need two people in them and one on the camera.