Dogmatix

On the mobile phone, Pol Maj-General Suwat Jaengyordsuk spoke at the same press conference, saying that an unnamed Myanmar friend who got the phone from the suspects told police he destroyed it, before putting it in a plastic bag and discarding it at the back of his home.

Seems the phone explanation has changed again, and up to this point this is the only phone identified as being Davids.

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do you have the picture of the destroyed phone ?

Nope, the only picture I am aware of is of some cop with a plastic bag supposedly containing a phone, standing in the jungle, and of course CSI LA face book page of a phone that allegedly looked like Davids 2nd phone. Witch is the first I heard he actually had a 2nd phone.

https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/photos/pb.596740650403664.-2207520000.1412766286./710647962346265/?type=1&theater

You can see David's black iPhone 4 in this clip from Thai PBS with a police document listing it as a personal effect of the deceased before it was broken and turned up near the Burmese' shack.

Couple of questions, someone might even find the references to those posts.

Am I right with the understanding, the police found a condom with Hannah's DNA on it but no other DNA?

Am I right to assume, if there was only Hannah's DNA, that condom was otherwise "empty"?

If the information is correct that that condom has not been send for forensic testing, how comes, the police

knew there is any DNA on those condoms?

Have I rightly understood, DNA can be obtained by saliva, blood, hair or any other tissue on our bodies?

So why were the burmese suspects ask to masturbate in order to get "DNA samples"?

Am I right that those suspected or accused people didn't, couldn't masturbate in order to get DNA samples?

Could I be right with my assumption, the reason that condom has not been send for forensic testing,

is the lack of masturbation willingness of the various suspects?

It was sent for DNA testing and the police have not explained why they were unable to find any DNA inside it. Even if the wearer had failed to ejaculate, he would have left samples of skin tissue and probably pre-ejaculate fluid inside the condom. The failure to find anything seems inexplicable.

Are you sure the Burmese were asked to masturbate to provide DNA samples? I saw pictures of policemen swabbing their mouths to obtain saliva samples which is more normal practice. If they had been asked to masturbate, that would, of course, not have been shown.

Clip from Thai PBS about the Burmese takraw players who were allegedy treated with boling water.

The clip also shows David's black iPhone 4 (before it was broken and left in the bushes) with a document purporting to show it was part of the deceased's personal effects.

The condom is also shown and the commentator mentions the fact that Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but none was found on the inside. She said that the police declined to answer their questions about the relevance of the condom.

A policeman is shown insisting that only the two suspects whose DNA was allegedly found inside the victim were involved in the rape and murder (despite the apparently contradictory evidence of the condom) and begging for the public to understand that.

Clip from Thai PBS about the Burmese takraw players who were allegedy treated with boling water.

The clip also shows David's black iPhone 4 (before it was broken and left in the bushes) with a document purporting to show it was part of the deceased's personal effects.

The condom is also shown and the commentator mentions the fact that Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but none was found on the inside. She said that the police declined to answer their questions about the relevance of the condom.

A policeman is shown insisting that only the two suspects whose DNA was allegedly found inside the victim were involved in the rape and murder (despite the apparently contradictory evidence of the condom) and begging for the public to understand that.

Clip from Thai PBS about the Burmese takraw players who were allegedy treated with boling water.

The clip also shows David's black iPhone 4 (before it was broken and left in the bushes) with a document purporting to show it was part of the deceased's personal effects.

The condom is also shown and the commentator mentions the fact that Hannah's DNA was found on the outside but none was found on the inside. She said that the police declined to answer their questions about the relevance of the condom.

A policeman is shown insisting that only the two suspects whose DNA was allegedly found inside the victim were involved in the rape and murder (despite the apparently contradictory evidence of the condom) and begging for the public to understand that.

An interesting point from the recent police statements on the television is that suspect Zaw Lyn took David's phone and gave it to a Burmese friend who found it didn't work (with a Thai SIM card) and smashed it up before helpfully depositing in the bushes next to Zaw's residence. The police didn't name this accomplice but then they don't seem to know the real names of the suspects anyway.

Why has this accomplice not been named and arrested as an accessory after the fact?

An interesting point from the recent police statements on the television is that suspect Zaw Lyn took David's phone and gave it to a Burmese friend who found it didn't work (with a Thai SIM card) and smashed it up before helpfully depositing in the bushes next to Zaw's residence. The police didn't name this accomplice but then they don't seem to know the real names of the suspects anyway.

Why has this accomplice not been named and arrested as an accessory after the fact?

An interesting point from the recent police statements on the television is that suspect Zaw Lyn took David's phone and gave it to a Burmese friend who found it didn't work (with a Thai SIM card) and smashed it up before helpfully depositing in the bushes next to Zaw's residence. The police didn't name this accomplice but then they don't seem to know the real names of the suspects anyway.

Why has this accomplice not been named and arrested as an accessory after the fact?

UK Rules--you often suggest that the UK Government 'should' do XYZ--but, as we all know, this is very unlikely--Cameron has enough on his plate with ISIS, UKIP, and other anagrams and really--does he have the balls? The UK Police are about as likely to get involved as Deputy Dawg.

This has nothing to do with Cameron and how busy he is. There's a full and dedicated system in place for creating DNA profiles of the whole population, in fact I believe this is their ultimate goal.

When a victim arrives back in the UK after a vicious murder it is investigated, inquests can be held regardless of where the person dies.

If thi shappens samples will have been collected and stored permanently. These samples would be sent to a well equiped DNA lab along with 1000's of other samples collected every week and a full DNA profile of the material will have been produced.

This will have been done already as it's a standard procedure.

Read this - Section 5.2 in particular :

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

If the families of the victims are fully satisfied that a full and honest investigation has taken place then I'm sure there will be no issue.

However if they aren't 100% satisfied then the following appears to apply :

request-assistance.JPG

Also this one from the above link :

request-assistance-2.JPG

So to sum it up, a murder investigation will be launched.

Do you think the families are full satisfied at this stage ?

Is it confirmed that the bodies of the deceased were sent for autopsy in the UK? I thought the Thais only send embalmed bodies abroad after removal of all internal organs in cases like this to avoid the embarrassment of conflicting autopsy reports.

Is is also confirmed that there will be inquests? Without reliable autopsies inquests would be a lot less effective.

What as come out of this report that has not been said before (that I have seen ) is that the 2 "Suspects" do not speak Thai.

I suspected this all along and it begs the question : Did they really understand what was going on when they were arrested and taken to a safe house to be interrogated for however long it was ?

It is said that a Rohinga was used as a translator but I cant believe that one translator was with both of them, probably separated, throughout the whole interrogation.

I didn't see the reenactment but I read from those who did that the pair had to be coached as to where to point and what to do, no translator by the look of it, did they really know what was happening ?

Independent DNA tests are the only way to go and if the police really believe they have the right people why would they refuse ? For if those tests were positive then it would prove beyond doubt they have the right people and vindicate them.

There were two Rohingya interpretors - one for each - and they must both be illegal immigrants too, since the Rohingyas are stateless and a passport is needed to enter and work legally. So they have to do police dirty work, or get deported, and obviously have no qualifications as translators of legal language and could probably not read the confessions in Thai given to the suspects to sign either. In fact they are probably illiterate in Burmese. The Burmese lawyer said he was told by the suspects that at least one of the interpreters joined in the police beatings. One of the 'interpreters' sidelines as a banana pancake salesman as you can see here.

Thai taxpayers should be happy with the BiB for saving taxpayers' money by not flying professionally qualified interpreters down from Bkk. Great, if they could really take their turn at the beatings too and save the police' knuckles.

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

Please stop chaps. Playtime is over.

CSI LA now seems to be working on the alibi of the 'person of interest' in Bangkok. He posted this on his FB page, "My girlfriend's friend is studying at Bangkok University. The suspect came to school on Sept 16th. She saw that he had scratch marks on his neck and arms."

CSI LA now seems to be working on the alibi of the 'person of interest' in Bangkok. He posted this on his FB page, "My girlfriend's friend is studying at Bangkok University. The suspect came to school on Sept 16th. She saw that he had scratch marks on his neck and arms."

It's time for the two suspects to get lawyers who tell them to retract these confessions and plead not guilty. Otherwise they have no chance and David and Hannah will never get justice. Even if they did it, we need to know who else was with them which will not come out, if the case doesn't go to trial.

There is no way the son of a wealthy politician or even of a lowly village headman would roll over and confess. But then he would have a lawyer present who would advise him to take the fifth and stop the police from taking his DNA samples out of concern for his human rights. The police also wouldn't have dared take him to a 'safe house' for vitamin injections and a police massage.

Before anything else can be done, these boys MUST plead not guilty, and how are we or anybody else going to ensure that.

You are right. The police want the trial to start as quickly as possible. Maybe another injection of 'vitamins' in the cells and a guilty plea. Then their botched up evidence will never be scrutinised. The pair will be sentenced to death despite any deal offered to them because the court will argue the police evidence which was never subjected to cross examination was sound and the confessions were not needed. Then their sentences will eventually be commuted to life to avoid causing trouble with Burma which provides 5-10% of Thailand's labour force and is a place where the Thai government and Thai corporations are eager to invest.

If they plead not guilty and lose the case, the downside is realistically the same as if they plead guilty but the upside is that the police case might collapse and they get deported as illegal immigrants.

A modern police force can not use boiling water, beatings and electric shocks as interrogation tools, shame on you RTP.

But injections of rohypnol to facilitate confessions and pliant behaviour at police re-enactments, while blurring memories of 'safe house' interrogation sessions, are part of the legitimate hi-tech crime busting arsenal of every modern police force.

Yes I wouldn't go with boiling water. Far to visible.

jb1

Yes, but the old habits of Thai police die hard. Most likely they don't trust new technology by itself but go for a belt and braces policy.

Pol Maj Gen Suwat, Assistant Bangkok Metropolitan Commissioner, who earlier declared on Channel 3 that DNA samples couldn't be taken from a Thai person of interest in Bangkok due to concerns for human rights, has now said that DNA from the inside of the condom which has Hannah's DNA on the outside, cannot be detected because it must have been 'cleaned out'. It seems unlikely that whoever used the condom could have had the presence of mind to wash it out in the sea and then throw it done carefully on the beach to be found by investigators. At any rate it would have been difficult to wash out only the inside in the sea, while leaving Hannah's DNA intact on the outside. Hence whatever cleansing of the inside took place must have happened after it was picked up by police investigators. At any rate, it seems more than likely that more sophisticated labs abroad would be able to detect minute levels of DNA left after the cleansing procedure.

Please send the condom to the FBI for analysis without delay.

The petition is in the right direction, as is the CSI LA Fb page which he now says he will clean up and translate relative passages to English.

What would make a huge difference though would be, if Hannah and David's parents could bring themselves to petition the British government for an independent British investigation directly through their MPs.

Kirsty Jones' mother is an incredibly courageous soul who has never given up fighting for justice for her daughter who was raped murdered in Chiang Mai, most likely by a Thai policeman. She has managed to get Welsh police to fly out to Thailand to investigate more than once. Even though they have been repeatedly stone walled by Thai police, who have been given carte blanche by successive Thai governments to do whatever they feel like, she still hasn't given up. With this type attitude, one day someone will be successful in exposing police corruption in covering up rape and murder cases of British tourists. That will be a victory for all those who have died and not received justice and will make Thailand a safer place for all foreign tourists.

Personally I don't deny the possibility that the two suspects might be guilty. If so, they still deserve a fair trail based on credible investigation to remove all doubt of their guilt. Even if they are guilty, the investigation appears to have failed utterly to provide a credible account of what actually happened and leaves open a very possibility that the rape and murders were work of more than two men. That leaves a very highly possibility that at least one murderer, if not more, are still at large and might strike again.

They are REALLY trying hard, aren't they? The suspects drank beer and wine. Oh, thank god for that solid evidence of brutal murder and rape.

It's like the reports of the American who "ran up, and then fall down" from the hotel in Nana a few weeks back.

These people are extremely simple. My 5 year-old grandson can see through this.

What type of wine did they drink? Was is a 1982 Château Rothschild Lafite? It is well known that Burmese illegal immigrants are partial to a decent claret. Let's see the evidence that they drank wine. It is already confirmed that they are LM smokers which is another expensive taste.