Dogmatix

The two suspects were seen to be very exhausted as they have been questioned throughout the night.

I wonder why they didn't just say they would remain silent at this time and only make statements in court like all Thai gangsters and politicians say when they are questioned by police. Ouch! Oh! Now I know.

I would guess that the one referred to ask Saw, Cho, Cholin, Soren etc is actually Kyo Lyn or similar. With all the grandstanding about preparing for AEC, Thai officials' linguistic skills in English and the languages of neighbouring countries remain infantile.

2,000 unregistered migrant workers paying 500 Baht a head... That's 1,000,000 Baht a month. How many police officers are normally on the island working full-time? Sounds like a generous monthly bonus to me. No wonder a lot of the photos depicting police with high tech mobile phones can be seen over the past couple of weeks.

I think I read that there were 6 full time BIB there but I could be wrong.

"Koh Tao's Thailand's other little secret: police extortion"

Alien labourers are not limited to Koh Tao, nor is police extortion.

The mad monk seems to have a point here. It is also rather unfair to farmers of other crops, such as rubber.

"Tourists now have become more confident about safety on the island, and they are confident the authorities can provide safety for them,"

555

$$$ £££ €€€ ¥¥¥ ฿฿฿

Anyone who thinks these Burmese Scum are innocent are as thick as too short planks and are living in cloud cuckoo land

Well done to the Thai authorities for a job well done!!!

Innocent or guilty they were entitled under Thai law to the right to remain silent and only make statements in court. This right was denied them. They are also entitled to legal representation. They were also entitled to the right not to be abducted to a secret place and tortured which may also have been denied them.

Imagine the difference in treatment by police, if these were two of Chalerm's sons who got a bit too spirited after a night out.

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

If the comment of ' exemplary professionalism ' alleged to have been made by the British Ambassador is true the embassy will try to dance around our complaints as Kent will not be too keen on having to reverse his gushing position by making demands.

Can i suggest that pressure needs to be put on the Foreign Office to demand answers from the embassy and tell them to get on with things. Kent and his staff may ignore us but London is an entirely different matter. Unfortunately there's so much going on elsewhere to distract the British media as their pressure too would carry an even bigger voice.

Fortunately Britain is still a democracy. The only way to put pressure on the British government is by petitioning MPs. Opposition MPs will be particularly happy to criticise the foreign secretary.

Something is wrong with this whole case. There were multiple slits found all about the male's head; a small hand-held knife, it wasn't reported in the case? Something is very wrong here...

The latest police statement said that one of the Burmese confessed in writing (although he can't speak Thai) to attacking David about the head with the hoe and then dragging him to the water. After finishing that assignment he joined his friend in alternately raping Hannah and then his friend demolished Hannah's face with hoe while he presumably held her down. That doesn't explain why David had those knife wounds on his head but no hoe wounds like the awful ones inflicted on Hannah. It also means that one of the Burmese was restraining Hannah by himself while she watched his friend murdering David. The two Burmese men are tiny. They only come up the Thai policemen's necks and they are probably malnourished as they must be dirt poor and have apparently only been in Thailand for a short time, as they haven't learned much Thai yet.

Hannah would have fought for her life to get away while David was being attacked. The Burmese man who was restraining her would have scratches and bites all over him and she might have got away from him too. She would also have had signs of a struggle on her body which was not the case apart from the wounds to her face from the hoe. Unless David suffered a knock out blow at the outset, he would also have put up a struggle and the Burmese who attacked him would have the marks of it. Whichever way you look at it points towards several attackers. It seems more likely that David was held by half a dog pack while one of them laid into him with the knuckle duster knife, then they held him under the water. Meanwhile the other half of the dog pack must have been holding Hannah do tight that she couldn't move or cry out. (The early police theory that Chris Ware murdered both of them by himself is nothing short of preposterous).

Perhaps these two Burmese really were there but who else was there?

“The police are doing their job. If the police hear your accusation, they will be sad," Gen. Prawit said.

I wonder if that could be construed at a threat? Possibly, at all?

Wai, and lean the head, look guilty, or more hot water on your goolies!

I don't think you are far from the truth. Even if they did it, their genitals must be a shocking state by now.

in the video clip the cop in the blue shirt prodded the Burmese in the white shirt hard and told him to wai.

If illegal Burmese, Khmer, Lao and Vietnamese workers are a risk to tourist safety and have to be removed from Koh Tao why leave them in the rest of the country?

What about the penalties for their employers and police who turned a blind eye?

These will be needed for the 'Tour de Farce' Thailand is going to host.

This just shows that all people involved in this investigation consider it closed.

There will be no trial by jury, they have already confessed. Only sentencing to be completed, a mere formality.

Back slaps all around and thank god eh? High season is about to start!

This whole business has stunk from day one.

Does anyone really believe those Burmese kids did this? I am sure they could be capable of rape and murder but what kind of animal is capable of what happened to those poor kids? It was done with such ferocity and brutality only someone with serious involvement and massive loss of face could be capable. No one who isn't crazed up on drugs could do such a thing surely? I am afraid that this animal is still out there and quite capable of doing something similar again.

Why do you keep calling them kids when they are 22 - 23 years old?

I have seen other innocent faces in Thailand being convicted for murder. Most recently the "innocent" thai boy on the train that killed that poor girl .

No. That one looked like a sleaze ball.

These police are going to be extremely well rewarded at the end of the day.

Those who have the fortitude to look at the pictures of the bodies on the nasty Death and Reality website will notice that Hannah was murdered in almost ritualistic fashion. The murdererers must have held her down to rape her and then continued to hold her down while one of them picked up the hoe and savagely struck at her face repeatedly until he had obliterated her features completely. There are no visible marks elsewhere on her violated body. He must have been very angry with her for some reason and wanted to wipe out her pretty face. Probably the first or second deep wound into her brain had already killed her and silenced her as a witness. So why keep on chopping repeatedly? This seems to be more than the action of a rapist who wants to eliminate a witness. They commonly strangle their victims which provides the added advantage that the victim can't cry out while she is dying in agony. I wonder why the killer was so angry. There is no suggestion that the Burmese had been harassing Hannah or trying to pick her up and then felt slighted. They were lowly illegal workers with no money and limited linguistic skills. They are also very slightly build men. I wonder if one of them holding her down would have been enough for the other to rape and murder her.

David's body was found some distance from Hannah's and in one of the pictures it looks as if it was found in the water. He had deep duts in his face but the pattern is completely different. There was no attempt to obliterate his features. It is possible they chopped at his head to make sure he was dead when he was already unconscious and perhaps tried to drown him before or after the horrible chopping. But it seems likely the intention was just to kill him to silence him as a witness and/ or get him out of the way first, without repeated angy chopping after he was obviously dead. The struggle with David seems to have taken place both on the beach and in the water's edge, unless they dragged him unconscious to the water to try to drown him. Given that David was a big, strong young man, it must have been very a very demanding struggle for these two weedy looking Burmese. If the fight with David and his murder which must have taken all the two men's strength took place first, what was Hannah doing? Was she waiting in terror for the two men to finish murdering her friend and start raping and murdering her? Why didn't she run as fast as she could to get help for David? There are no signs of injury to her body suggesting that she was incapable of running. If David was taken unawares and knocked unconscious first, it would still have taken both men to drag him to the water to try to drown him. If Hannah was raped and murdered first, which clearly also required at least the full strength of both these men, what was David doing at the time.

How many men were there?

More than 2 you would think yes. 5 or 6 different wounds to David alone, and there were inital reports of his hands looking like he had been fighting with them

To be honest it feels like the only realistic chance of the true events of that night coming out is if Sean does know what happened and tells someone, ideally the UK authorities. If that happened whether they acted upon it is another matter, and whether the general public ever got to know would be unlikely probably

Here is some evidence!

I think you are saying the wounds on David's body are not consistent with the size, weight and shape of a garden hoe. Yes, they look too small and could have been made by a small, broad sharp instrument. Police have mentioned that there was a second murder weapon which they have not identified or found. However, they said it was a blunt instrument. If that is the case, there are likely two more murder weapons in addition to the hoe.

Well done woman, I have been questioning that from the moment it was announced that the murderers were Burmese migrants.

And I want the truth.......this case has affected me a lot.

Not only you but many Thai people online are also sceptical. There is very little justice in this country for the poor. Many poor people was put into jail through the so called "bomb detectors" which the army up to today is refusing to acknowledge was a fraud and on which they spend billions. These devices was used to "detect" drugs and explosives, many people was put in jail based on these faulty detectors results used as evidence in courts. I have seen nothing about their cases being reviewed after the fraud became known. There are also a certain lady that was demoted by the previous government due to her support for these devices (she is supposed to be a scientist), but the army have put her back in her old position.

The only way we will know the truth is if the British government gets involved.

Not only did poor Muslims get dragged off by the army to suffer God knows what fate after the plastic dousing rods determined they had been in contact with explosives but several poor conscripts and other people were blown to smithereens moments after a soldier wielding one of the plastic toys had declared the area free from explosions. Double whammy!

Translations I've received from my wife from Thai people commenting on the CSI LA page and other Thai forums is that the village chief is very very well connected.. He has a long history with certain ministers in gov, Suthep and others.. it goes deep. Getting that family to resubmit or get tested for DNA will be very hard. They are being protected. There are also rumors that McAnna has allot more knowledge of what really happened as well.

The only way we will ever find out the truth is if the British gov demands to get involved with DNA.

It sounds doubtful that UK will be able to push hard enough without causing a major diplomatic relations problem because surely Thailand will resist very hard if what you say is true. But they should warn UK citizens not to travel to Thailand in that case.

If it comes about that legal justice is not / cannot be carried out then I sincerely hope justice of another form happens one day to the people that really deserve it.

Always seemed like McAnna knew a lot about it. I hope that he is still healthy, and I hope he has talked to the UK authorities or he has let his friend down IMO.

No worries on that front. The British ambo had just expressed his complete satisfaction with the police investigation. Perhaps the UK taxpayer will also contribute to the reward for the brave BIB on the ground.

For those posters who seem convinced the headman's son committed the murders, do you really think if he killed the couple he would simply leave the bodies on the beach? With his resources they would surely have taken the bodies out to sea and dumped them, to save his own skin and protect the family business.

What could be worse for an island/ hotel/club or guesthouse than to have2 corpses bludgeoned to death in front of your business that relies on tourists?

Anyone with a vested interest in the island's business would have hidden those bodies if they had been the perpretators.

Just like the politician's son arranged for the disposal at sea of the body of the police sergeant he shot in front of witnesses at point blank range in a night club I suppose.

He said both men could not be scapegoats, as their DNA matched the samples found on the victim's body.

Not wanting to be a spoiler, Sir, but has the DNA match been irrefutably confirmed by independent external experts whose integrity is beyond doubt?

If the DNA matches were to be discredited, how strong would be the police case?

Were the suspects read the Thai equivalent of their Miranda rights before being asked to sign their confessions?

They said they cannot speak Thai. Were the confessions in Burmese? If not, were they able to understand them fully?

Have they been provided with legal aid and spoken to a lawyer yet?

Has the Myanmar Embassy done anything for them?

Three migrant workers who have no identification documents and work permits were advised by their colleagues to flee.

No news of the arrest of the owner of the AC Bar for employing workers without work permits and harbouring illegal immigrants yet. Many of the other 600 alien workers rounded up and DNA tested also are apparently illegals. Police seem to have been happy to allow their employers to continue to employ illegals.

If tourists can be raped and murdered by illegals, surely the presence of large numbers of marginalised and ill treated undocumented aliens is a threat to tourism. Even the room maids are illegal. They could rob all tourists in a hotel and quickly disappear over the border to Burma.

Wonder why the confession was so pivotal the case, if they have cast iron DNA and other evidence, or did the killers just want to unburden themselves.

How reliable is DNA and other forensic testing in Thai police labs? Are lab technicians liable to coercion or bribery?

What about fingerprint evidence from the garden hoe?

What test results have been found from the used condom found near the murder site?

Is there any evidence that the condom was used to have intercourse with Hannah? There would be traces of oil or rubber from the condom inside her.

What about other DNA traces apart from those from semen? If the condom used in this case, there would be other traces from the male such as hairs on the victims.

Many of these issues have not be mentioned at all in the investigation.

Regarding the mobile phone,if you watch the YouTube video of Hannah's friend being interviewed at the police station,at 1 min 22 seconds, you can see on the table in front of Hannah's friend is what i presume to be her own mobile phone, but if you look to the right on the desk near the bottle of water there is what looks to be a pink edged mobile inside a purple phone case. It looks very similar to the one in the attachment titled 'Thailand-last-pic' in Post 407 of this thread. Is that Hannah's phone? (sorry can not seem to attach the youtube video)

can you post link?

Yeah there right ..well done mariek nicely spotted

I believe the friend is on record as saying police asked her for Hannah's phone which had been left with her and for the password, both of which she naturally gave them. Hannah's phone in her last pic looks very distinctive and very much like the one on the table in the cop shop. I wonder how it could have ended up in the bushes near the Burmese suspects' residence no longer working and therefore discarded. Why would Hannah have taken it out with her, if it was no longer working as police said? Could understand more that a thief might throw out a phone, if it was locked with a password, but that was not what they said. Surprising that a murderer would throw away his victim's phone near his own room.

Yeah right. The BIB did a fantastic job. The British tabloids are also full of praise for them.

At least CSI LA seems to do more than simply regurgitate the same paraphrased information that the mainstream media accepts and spits out. It's the closest thing we've got to investigative journalism. Thankfully there's people out there other than the police who are willing to question things and be a voice for the dead and those accused. (I'm not saying these Burmese men are guilty or innocent.)

I wonder how long his posts will stay online.