seeker108

Thanks for the post op feedback Jerry.

6 baht/unit for electric is not so bad. Only a little more than what you would pay in your own home. Just don't overuse the air con and you will be fine.

Nimannheimin is a road about 10+ min. walk to the west of where you are. Off that is Grace Dental Clinic, Khun Churn restaurant (great, inexpensive vegetarian buffet), and many other good shops and restaurants.

sounds good. It is a great location. Right at the Central shopping complex and near to both the moat and Nimannheimin.

I look forward to your report. Be sure to ask them what they will charge you for electricity.

Hmmm. Maybe let's get back to the basic issue here and see what we want to do. Chownah, I suspect that you and I and P1P as well as many others on this forum feel the same way.

It seems we have a serious problem with chemical poisoning in Chiang Mai based on the recent study mentioned in the OP.

Based on P1P's earlier research, in additition to what poisons are already being put directly on the commercially grown crops they also seem to be absorbing even more through the water supply. (And I believe P1P does say above, 3 seperate times, that he collected the samples (please correct me P1P if you were not personally involved)).

Further, if these poisons are so pervasive, then even supposed organic crops are loaded with poisons. Frustrating!

Chownah, I agree that we really need documented evidence of the degree and source of poisoning and this then needs to come to the attention of officials everywhere and the poisoning needs to stop wherever it exists.

What an ignorant age we live in. We put very toxic poisons on the food we eat. We additionally put poisons into our water supplies. Then we need scientific studies to prove to the decision makers that the poisons in our bodies are there because we are eating and drinking them. Absurd! Anyway it is a fact that we consumers are brainwashed by the spin doctors of the petro chemical industries and the politicians are both brainwashed and bribed by them, so scientific evidence is a sword we need.

Even if the 8 year old studies could be dug up (P1P, any chance these might be found in some file at Mae Jo or CMU?), I am sure we would need newer studies as well. Is anyone willing to do any leg work on this or are we just going to flap our jaws and forget about it next week and try to fool ourselves that what WE are eating could not possibly contain poisons (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

If nothing else, 14 Oct. Nation article in hand, I will dig around the universities for support or collaboration on this when I get back, but that may be a long ways off as I may get sidetracked into any number of projects both in and outside of Thailand before returning. If anyone wants to spearhead this NOW and there is anything I can do with emailing people or doing research from here, email or PM me.

On a side note regarding the need for these poisons. Anyone ever hear of the country of Cuba? Without digressing into politics, let's just say, that some decades back the US decided that they needed to be punished in many different ways. One of the punishments was that they were not to be permitted to buy any of these wonderful herbacides, pesticides, or chemical fertilizers from the US or allies. They were forced to farm without them. It is a very odd fact that they continue to produce bumper organic crops to this day. Hmm, could it also be that there existed farming for all of the millenia before Monsanto? No, I guess that simply is not possible. At least that is what Monsanto and friends would have you believe.

By unsubstantiated, I assume you are referring to the part about the blame going only to the flower growing up in the hills. The fact that all water supplies (except one) tested with poisons seems definite, despite the paperwork no longer being available, as P1P had conducted the sampling personally. You might say this research is now out of date and I would have to agree. More likely the situation is now worse.

I am hoping there have been more current studies done and the source of the widespread poisoning will be tracked down. Because, the fact remains that there is some serious source of poison

in the Chiang Mai area as indicated by the fact that 95 per cent of Chiang Mai residents who were tested displayed unsafe levels of toxins in their blood.

I will say that I have heard from people connected with the industry that the flower growers do use an extremely high level of toxins and it does not surprise that if this is going on up in the hills that these poisons are then flowing down and collecting in the water supply. I hope one of you who are currently on the scene will be looking further into this.

Hi chiangrai57020,

I have both PM'd and emailed you regarding a nice house that a Thai friend found in central Chiang Rai, but maybe you did not get these messages for some reason. Hence the post here. I am still waiting on the complete details from my friend there and hopefully she will email them to me by tomorrow. PM or email me for the info.

Seeker

Or maybe post it so we can all see.

Both CMU and Maejo are actively involved in testing water etc.

I looked into this in some depth about eight years ago, as I was looking for land on which to start organic farming. After testing samples from many areas, from north of Chiang Rai to south of Hot, we found only one clean piece of land with a water supply which would pass relevant UK requirements to be classed as organic. That was near Ampur Mae Wang and the owner there had complete control of the entire watershed area, and had kept it chemical free for 45+ years.

Every other piece of land, highland or lowland, and water supply, whether from river, stream or artesian supply, was too contaminated to pass.

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A great shame. And you say that most of the contamination is coming from the commercial growing of flowers by the hilltribes. I was not aware of this problem when last there. I was aware though of one or two orange groves that were way over the top with the use of these poisons and that from there it was also getting into the water system..

Clearly it would be more than we want, but I wonder how much of the contamination is passing through the root system of the plants into the vegetable itself (assuming it is not a root vegetable like carrots for example) with organically grown vegetables. It would be nice to have actual test results to be able to highlight the problem and in this way track down the source of the poisons getting into people's bloodstreams.

Has anything been done to try to stop the hilltribes from using pesticides both through educating them about the incredible damage to themselves as the ones most directly exposed and about safe alternatives? I am surprised that this has not been brought to the attention of the King. From what I understand he is very proactively eco oriented.

Problem with "organic" produce in Chiang Mai is that almost every watershed area is severely polluted with pesticide. The hilltribes grow their flowers on the high hills. These utilise huge amounts of pesticide and that enters the water for everybody downstream. There is almost no "clean" water in CM province.

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I think it is diluted to undetectable levels by the time it hits the lowlands....am I wrong?

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Unfortunately this is most likely wishful thinking. I have experienced directly the severe poisoning of the water supply in farming communities in the US.

Does anyone here have any connections with the ag departments at CMU or MJU? They both have had strong interest in the past in the whole pesticide/herbicide issue. It would be interesting to know if they have conducted any tests for chemical contamination on the general water supply that farms tap into and also on produce grown without the chemicals, but potentially exposed to indirect contaminants to see what the contamination levels are. It might be a real eye opener.

I know at CMU they had a good sized program encouraging local farmers to be pesticide and herbicide free and it was spearheaded by the department chairman. If they have not conducted such tests already they might be very keen to do so if they were made aware of the possible magnitude of the problem.

So is Chiang Mai worse off than other places in Thailand in terms of pesticide use and contaminated food?

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One thing good about the Chiang Mai area is that there are many who are trying to grow completely organic or at least herbicide and pesticide free and even in local markets you can find those who claim to be selling organic produce (even up in Mae Rim market).

I checked out some of the growers and as far as I could tell the claims were legitimate and the growers were sincerely organic in their thinking. However you can not be certain without checking it yourself as there is little organic certification available and most local farmers growing organic do not wish the extra expense of certification as they do not seem to charge any more for their produce than non organic. At least not in the local markets where I was shopping. In the major grocery stores you certainly pay a premium for organic when you can find it.

Thanks Chownah

The kleiwerks link refers to the 'pun pun' group that is working with the adobe system that I read about in the Chiang Mai forum. It seems they have a couple of very detailed workshops coming up. A lot of what both pun pun and whispering seed emphasize seems to be aimed at a more basic and inexpensive kind of construction to help village areas construct nice homes and sustainable systems within their means. Probably kleiwerks (and pun pun) cover more upscale type home construction as well. I will definitely be in touch with pun pun when I get back to Chiang Mai. I used to be part of an environmental builders group in the US and we hosted similar workshops and conferences.

By the way, anyone checking out these links, don't be fooled by the simplicity of what you see. Some of the most beautiful and expensive homes in California and the southwest, and parts of Europe are constructed using similar technologies.

If my project in the north comes off I will keep you posted here. There is a similar project to the one I want to do in the north that will soon start in Hua Hin, and I may get involved with that as well. Though there it will probably involve more standard construction than eco construction.

http://www.qcon.co.th/index.php

Q-Con Blocks.

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Thanks for the post Eric. Seems to have some good insulation value as well as other construction benefits, but definitely not for me as I wish to avoid concrete and the whole feeling that it and other high tech products generate.

There is too much of a 'sterile' feeling to so much of modern construction that I wish to avoid. For me any building, especially a home, should have a solid and settled feeling incorporated wherever possible. This is probably just my personal prefference. Others may find this is just what they are looking for.

Again, thanks for the info.

First let me add to what others have said. My hat is off to you for a very well organized, executed and documented project, done on the kind of budget that is an inspiration to all. And thank you for posting the details here.

Also you beat me in making a reply to the airconditioning load question as I only just found this thread.

Thaipwriter was probably correct in what he said as applied to typical construction in Thailand. However a well insulated house needs minimal air conditioning and I noticed that you did include insulation in your budget.

If one wants an air-conditioned home then insulation is as important in a hot climate as it is in a cold climate for the purpose of keeping your home heated. It will dramatically reduce your aircon load and therefor your electric bill and the interior environment will feel far more comfortable, not only cooler.

I am currently considering the possibility of constructing a very large facility in Thailand for a charitable organization, and I soon hope to peruse much of the knowledge in this housing subforum. I may thereafter may even be bold enough to make a few more posts.

Al, is it possible for you to approximate (WAG as you so aptly put it) the cost of the concrete blocks only (including directly related costs that would fall out if not using the blocks) and perhaps even compare that with the new brick costs that you will use. In your earlier breakdown the concrete block cost was lumped with quite a few other items.

I ask, because I also am thinking of using an alternative wall system. One possibility is this brick you mention and another is adobe blocks that are apparently being made up around Mae Tang. I have long wanted to build with adobe or some kind of rammed earth. I have not yet researched in detail the adobe availability and cost, but I did see some postings about it in the Chiang Mai forum.

Having thick insulated walls, as well as roof and ceiling, is also important. I remember living in places in both Thailand and India where the cheap walls felt like radiant heaters even on the shady side. They were conducting very efficiently the ambiant 35C outside temp into the interior and airconditioning could hardly affect it. If the wall was exposed to the sun then it felt like the side of a pizza oven.

Again thanks for this post and I look forward to reading the other posts in this forum.

Seeker

Take a look at what this site offers:

____________________________________

Sorry, commercial website removed. See forum rules and go to 'Free Classifieds' or 'Commercial Ads'.

May I offer the following solution: Send a PM to Lannachiangrai

____________________________________]

Or contact them to see if they know of more in your price range.

This is the best I can suggest as I do not know the area well and am not currently there. Hopefully other TV members on the scene in CR will have knowledge of some more good deals on a central rental.

Good luck!

Hi Al,

Let's see if I understand you correctly.

You have phone service with TT&T and through LOXINFO a permanent DSL connection. This means you do not need to "dial up". It is on 24/7 and all you need to do is to turn on your computer to be online? What is the cost of this service? And what are the promised download/upload speeds?

Hmm, you are also 40 km out in the middle of nowhere. I think you must actually have a dial up account if I am not mistaken. Anyway please let me know the speeds and cost.

Thanks for the info.

Well. I guess since there have been no favorable posts and everyone here uses the internet then I must conclude that there is still no decent broadband in CR.

There is really no technical nor direct financial reason now for Thailand not to have top notch broadband connectivity like India or other countries. The bandwidth cost from international fibre optic backbone providers has continued to fall dramatically during the past 4 years.

I will look more into the big picture of broadband in my upcoming vacation time and do some posting in the "Internet, computers, communication, technology in Thailand" forum

Thanks all!

Glad I could be of some service gentlemen.

Oh, by the way, be sure to look at the date on any posts your search digs up before replying to them. There may not be much use in replying to a post 4+ months old that was dealing with a more immediate question. If something in a very old post inspires you to post, it may be better to start a new post, though on occasion it may be worth reviving the old post. I guess the best I can say is to think about it on a case by case basis, but do be sure to check the date.

Seeker

Hi Sagit,

You need to provide more info, so we can better help you. How many in family and ages of child(ren)? How do you define family accomodations? What part of town do you want to be in?

Tourism may be down a bit this year, but I still suggest you line up something in advance. If you will be in CM for 1 or 2 weeks then you might be best in taking a 1 month rental as you could get something at around 7,000 including utilities for the whole month.

Use the red search button and check out some of the posts on apartments, condos, etc

Seeker

We have had the MaxNet 512/256 ADSL for 11 weeks now. Can't compare it to other high-speed connections in Thailand because this is the first we've had here, but we had DSL service in the states for 5 years and compared to that, MaxNet sucks!  It is slower than dial-up at times and the slow times are unpredictable and last for hours.Also have tried DSL connections in a variety of cybercafes all over Thailand and the connections in C.R. are slower than anywhere else outside of Nan, so it may not necessarily be the ISP. That said, MaxNet IS slow, expensive (790 baht / month) and the customer service isn't so hot,either. If anybody knows of a better ISP here in C.R. I would be willing to switch.

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Thanks Chris and Dan,

Sounds pretty grim. I hope someone here knows of a better option or has a better report.

Seeker

Also be sure to specify which forum to search in, if it is not already specified, unless you really want to search every forum.

Seeker

Hi all,

I have a friend in CR that I would like to have broadband for Skype usage, and I would like to know what options now exist for a reasonable price.

Back in July Tayto posted:

"I have been using T-Net by Cat N-Rich package, 335 baht per 30 days unlimited for well over a year now and have been quite happy with it.There is a 3 baht connection charge and this works out about another 100 to 150 baht a month

T-Net/TT&T now have a broadband package offer, Maxnet, 590 baht, 256/128 speed including free modem if you sign up for a year.

This seems to be very good value but I have been reading some bad press about it.Any comments please?"

And Dr. Locker posted:

"I have the 512/256-Connection.

But many of my friends ordered the smaller one.

Till now everybody is fine with his broadband.

When you only want to use internet the normal way (email & surfing with a few smaller downloads) you should be very happy with this connection.

OK, sometimes there are a few problems. But anyway it is the best choice for now.

By the way, TRUE-Internet (well known from BKK) has an office beside ITD-Plaza.

Perhaps they offer another choice."

Here are a few of my questions:

Is Maxnet still the best option for a reasonable price in CR? How much is the 512/256 broadban connection? Is the 256/128 broadband still 590/month?

Any updates on the quality? Any other good options now available, like TRUE-Internet?

Thanks for any help here.

Seeker

Paul,

Check out the following post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47010

Also keep in mind that the negative comments (even if true) refer to a place that the OP is not even certain is the place in the link sent to her/him.

As mentioned on another recent post here in the CM forum this is a great place for asking questions specific to Chiang Mai. However if you have questions that are common to all of Thailand (i.e. visas, technical matters, cars, etc.) then you will probably find more of what you need in a forum relating directly to your question.

My first suggestion is to look at the index of forums here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

Once you find the best forum, before posting there, go to that forum and have a good read, making use of the red search link at the top of the page. If you do not find exactly the answer you want, you will at least get good background information that will allow you to refine your question in such a way as to promt answers better meeting your need(s). Further, what I find in doing this is that I find that there are other issues that I never even considered which I might also need to know about.

Good luck!

Seeker

A friend of mine came down with a chest cold.  I immediately thought antibiotics but on searching for what kind on the net found out they do little good at first and are only used to prevent pneumonia.  So I asked another friend and she suggested burdock root.  This got me to thinking I thought I saw a Chinese herb place at Worrowroot (sp) market but I can’t remember where.  Anyone know of a good Chinese medicine/herb shop.  The whole diagnostic thing with the specially made teas and that sort of stuff?

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Hi Kerry,

I lean more toward ayurveda and can give you a quick, effective and inexpensive suggestion. Glasses of about 1 - 2 tsp of turmeric in hot/warm water throughout the day. Can add some lemon or lime juice as well if you like sometimes. Only add honey if the liquid is body temp or less and do not do it that way very often (apparently honey becomes somewhat toxic and possibly carcenogenic when heated above body temp). Straight may be best, usually at a temp a bit above body temp. Also plenty of plain hot/warm water or herbal teas throughout the day to help flush the system. Turmeric is a natural antibiotic and also it has other good AV properties for things like colds.

There is also a good Indian herb and spice shop on Chang Moi Rd about 100 to 200 yds on the right as you are walking away from the Ping River. They have some ayurvedic remedies and some Thai herbs and maybe some Chinese as well. The old guy there can suggest what might also be good.

Cheers!

P.S. Even most doctors I know say to avoid antibiotics like the plague, except as a last resort, in dire need. They do too much damage, even when not over-prescribed, including killing off the bodies own natural antibodies.