PepperMe

It is NOT up to Greece to come up with the solution. It is up to the troika.

It was the troika's plans of even more austerity that was rejected, So it is up to the troika to table a different one.

The referendum was basically a statement to ther troika that the people of Greece do not accept you offer and its conditions, so come back with something different.

The EU and the trioka have no intention of backing down at all and wants to destroy Greece because they do not like the Syriza government. They may have already brought dowen governments in other countries and they did it to Greece a few years ago, and they do not like it when the people bite back.

Basically the EU attitude is "If we can not control you as our puppet, then we don't want you at all".

The world is weatching and more importantly, they know exactly what is going on.

So if you can get easy access to credit cars, mortgage and cars on monthly payments, and fail to pay back because you loose your job, its the responsibility of the lenders to come up with solutions? The Greeks should look in the mirror and realize they have, together, created a corrupt society that lives above its means.

What are you suggesting? Your response is beyond beggars believe.

Once a week over the past 5 years three people fly into Athens, which are representitives of the three lenders, the IMF, The EC and the ECB. Their job is to tell the Greek finance minister what they have to do for the next week. Which Greece has complied with to the letter.

So the lenders are basically running Greece's economy.

When YOU take out a bank loan or buy a car on credit, do the bank run your entire finances??????

I put it to YOU, that it is YOUR response that beggars belief, but I will accept you are innocently ignorant of the true situation.

It is because the 5 years of troika conditions and meddling in Greec's economics has FAILED spectacularly, then they are asking for even more damaging controls.... You have to ask yourself who needs to be coming to the table with better proposals. Greece have already given plenty of ground and proposals which are summarily rejected out of hand.

Tsipras has already moved some way, it is the troika who need to move now.

Pathetic again. Ask the rich Greeks what they have done with their money. How many billions are stashed in Switzerland? How much cash in is their hands? The insolvency of the Greek banks is because the Greeks did a bankrun. The Greeks are very good in blaming others for their own mischief and YOU do the same.

The austerity measures were agreed upon by the previous Greek governments. The Greek economy didn't fail because of the Troika, it failed because the under performing, corrupt, tax avoiding, inefficient Greek society. But its easier to blame other nations and take the money of their tax payers. You should take an example of the Baltic states who have had the balls to climb out of there situation. But no, the whole world is against the Greeks.

Pay up or Grexit and a one way ticket to the stone age.

You clearly know nothing of this situation. This post confirms it.

Another know it all that has no clue what he is talking about.

Am not sure the greeks have the nouse to re issue the drachma and manage their own affairs.I mean they could n't do it while a member of the EU what makes anyone think they can stand alone? Greece has been corrupt for centuries hard to change a life time habit.

Greece is in its position because it has NO control over its curreny. The Germans have total control to suit their own economy.

With the Drachma, at least the finance ministry have the power to devalue it, and this will make their exports boost, their tourism explode and will trigger economic recovery.

They can not devalue the Euro. This is why ALL small economies in the euro are suffering badly.

At least with the Drachma, they are in control of their own fate rather than be shackled to a currency that trashes their economy and a dictatorship that have failed Greece for 5 consecutive years.

It is NOT up to Greece to come up with the solution. It is up to the troika.

It was the troika's plans of even more austerity that was rejected, So it is up to the troika to table a different one.

The referendum was basically a statement to ther troika that the people of Greece do not accept you offer and its conditions, so come back with something different.

The EU and the trioka have no intention of backing down at all and wants to destroy Greece because they do not like the Syriza government. They may have already brought dowen governments in other countries and they did it to Greece a few years ago, and they do not like it when the people bite back.

Basically the EU attitude is "If we can not control you as our puppet, then we don't want you at all".

The world is weatching and more importantly, they know exactly what is going on.

So if you can get easy access to credit cars, mortgage and cars on monthly payments, and fail to pay back because you loose your job, its the responsibility of the lenders to come up with solutions? The Greeks should look in the mirror and realize they have, together, created a corrupt society that lives above its means.

What are you suggesting? Your response is beyond beggars believe.

Once a week over the past 5 years three people fly into Athens, which are representitives of the three lenders, the IMF, The EC and the ECB. Their job is to tell the Greek finance minister what they have to do for the next week. Which Greece has complied with to the letter.

So the lenders are basically running Greece's economy.

When YOU take out a bank loan or buy a car on credit, do the bank run your entire finances??????

I put it to YOU, that it is YOUR response that beggars belief, but I will accept you are innocently ignorant of the true situation.

It is because the 5 years of troika conditions and meddling in Greec's economics has FAILED spectacularly, then they are asking for even more damaging controls.... You have to ask yourself who needs to be coming to the table with better proposals. Greece have already given plenty of ground and proposals which are summarily rejected out of hand.

Tsipras has already moved some way, it is the troika who need to move now.

If i was a Eurozone head leader, I would let Greece simmer in their own juices for a while,

realizing full well that the NO vote of Sunday is as hollow and empty as the Bank's vaults,

and that when someone want to borrow money for their immediate existence they also have

to agree to the lander's conditions or go look for money elsewhere....

You are missing the point completely.

Greece abided by their lender's terms of huge austerity for 5 whole years which brought them to their knees. Then the people rebelled as their country was crashing around their ears and all the lenders want is to make the conditions even worse.

Greece is on the verge of insolvency thanks to the EU scare tactics that forced a run on the Greek banks, this was ALL deliberate. They knew the effect it would have. This crisis is 100% EU made.

You can not force such damaging aysterity onto people and then ask to put more on. 15% unemployment, 60% youth unemployment, Pensions halved, taxes and VAT increased. Suicide rates quadrupled over the past 5 years,,,, Then they want to add even more of the same????

All this started in January when the Greeks went to the polls and elected Syriza and the EU did not like it... Pure and simple, everything we see happening in Greece is controlled by the EU and designed to bring down yet another government.

End of.

It is NOT up to Greece to come up with the solution. It is up to the troika.

It was the troika's plans of even more austerity that was rejected, So it is up to the troika to table a different one.

The referendum was basically a statement to ther troika that the people of Greece do not accept you offer and its conditions, so come back with something different.

The EU and the trioka have no intention of backing down at all and wants to destroy Greece because they do not like the Syriza government. They may have already brought dowen governments in other countries and they did it to Greece a few years ago, and they do not like it when the people bite back.

Basically the EU attitude is "If we can not control you as our puppet, then we don't want you at all".

The world is weatching and more importantly, they know exactly what is going on.

I just wonder where all the money went,especially before they give them anymore loans.

regards Worgeordie

It went in large part directly to the greek citizens. Here's where and how;

- national pensions and social benefit payments significantly greater than what the contributions justified

- Hospitals and health care delivery

- Infrastructure such as highways, and water lines

- Preservation and restoration of "national monuments"

- Payment of higher than justified salaries for the bloated Greek civil service and government.

- Subsidies to greek farmers

The large payments were required because Greeks don't pay their taxes. This is the biggest irritant to the EU countries Greek demands bail it out. The Greeks expect others to pay for the Greeks easy lives, without the Greeks contributing.

Sorry but most of that list is wrong and echoes the pro-EU mainstream media propaganda that has been shovelled to the EU people for months. If you listen to the neutral economists, the reasons are completely different with the main reason being that Greece is not suited to the Euro and will always have the problems it is having and this goes for all the smaller economies.

The Euro is valued to suit only the large dominant European economies such as Germany and France, the rest suffer. Which is why you are seeing 4 other countries in trouble who run their countries very differently to Greece, yet still are struggling and hurting.

I just wonder where all the money went,especially before they give them anymore loans.

regards Worgeordie

Well Worgeordie (from a fellow Geordie)... What many people do not get to hear.. Is that a lot of that bailout money was encouraged onto Greece by the Germans.

Over 100 Bn of that bailout money was spent of defence, around 20 Bn a year for 5 years and who was the seller of all this weaponry that Greece really does not need?...... Germany.

It is also the old tactics of get as many countries into debt as possible and then you can control them as puppets. Been happening for years and the EU is a classic example. Which is why they have dictated their own version of twisted democracy, had prime ministers removed and puppets installed (Italy a prime example as is Greece also).

They have rejected referenda and ordered countries to re-hold them until the result pleases them (Ireland, Netherlands, Norway).

The EU is nothing more than a German Empire which they failed to get with 2 world wars and now have one without even firing a shot (read the Coudenhove Kalergi plan)... A German Empire with France as its poodle.

What the EU commissioners such as Juncker (Merkel's lapdog) does not realise, is that not only did their bullying and imposed bank crisis to deliberately scare the Greek people into voting to accept the troika's bitter demands... has in fact spectacularly back-fired, but his new hand thumping statement threatening to not only kick Greece out of the Eurozone, but also the EU is equally being watched by the people of those other bailout nations and will be seen as a direct attack on a sovereign nation and its civilians, and they will not stand for it.

We could be watching a slow motion car crash of the EU. Starting with the inevitable collapse of its currency.

This report is stupid at best and way ill-informed.

For starters, the Greek referendum was NOT about whether to pay its debt or not. It was about whether to accept even more austerity from the creditors when the current level of austerity has not only brought Greece to its knees, but also threatens the entire breakdown of Greek society.

The EU is about the most undemocratic body imaginable. It is run by unelected and unaccountable beaurocrats and everythjing else is pure window dressing.

Juncker is now threatening to not only throw Greece out of the Euro, but also out of the EU. That is how bad these people are. Greece just wants a re-structuring of the debt and the terms of the repayments to take pressure off its people, the EU are refusing it and are secretly hoping Greece is destroyed so they can hold it up as an example to the rest of the EU as 'this is what happens when you don't do what we say'.....

Disgraceful and the sooner the entire EU project collapses, the better.

I wish the US would stay out of other region's territorial disputes.

They are NOT the world police.

Ahhh..... The self congratulating TAT slaps themselves on the back again... Positioning themselves... I would infer that it is not up to TAT to position themselves anywhere in the table, it is the rest of the world to do that.

One of my fave sayings..... Self Praise.... Is No Praise at all.

For all the rigged polls saying there is still support for the coup and current administration, I can see past supporters starting to move over to the anti-coup side.

Many farang I know welcomed the coup last year, but the conversations are changing.

http://www.tmd.go.th/en/seasonal_forecast.php

Strange how the Thai Met office is say6ing completely different to the World Met Office.

This government are totally ignoring El Nino and the fact that there will not be as much water this year in the wet season as other years and so the reservoirs will have absolutely no chance of recovering sufficiently to enter the next dry season. It is not all about this year which is bad enough as it is, it is all about next year where this country could be a ticking time bomb to a disaster.

So carry on Gevernment, keep telling the people to use water as normal. Forget about all the big global met offices who are ALL saying the El Nino has already triggered and will peak in September and October.... Just totally ignore that lot because they are not Thai person so they not know Thai.

From what I can see they are gaining ground fast.

For a year it is astounding that they have taken huge swathes of not only the middle east but also right across N Africa.

Obama talks out of his ring piece

What is there to talk about ? The Greeks voted to not pay back their loans. Why talk about Greece paying back a portion when everyone should suspect by now that the Greeks would just 'renegotiate' that payment in the future. They aren't going to pay back the loans, take the loss and don't loan them anymore.

LOL.... It does not work like that.

And they didn't vote on whether or not to pay the loans.

The writing is already on the wall.

There is nothing the EU can do.

They can not be seen to be going easy, as this will send a message to the other 4 bailout nations who will demand even treatment across the board as they are too suffering bad austerity imposed by the exact same troika.

If they are hard with Greece, then they will get a backlash and with the UK holding a refeendum next year, they have to make themselves look benevolent even though they are utterly ruthless.

Almost ALL EU citizens already know the ECB have deliberately created liquidity problems with the Greek banks. For that alone, Greece should have stuck up a middle finger and started the printing of Drachma. The ECB has a duty to keep EVERY member state in the eurozone solvent. They have no right to cut liquidity. That was bullying tactics design for no other purpose than to bring down the Syriza government and it backfired spectacularly.

Merkel now looks a right burk..... Tsipras is holding ALL the cards.

The EU are absolutely snookered on this one.... I am loving it.

This is just government propaganda because they have made a complete hash up of the water management and now they are on the verge of a natuaral disaster in Thailand.

Who wrote this?...... Goerbbels??

They are afraid to tell the truth to the increasingly restless masses.

What is their strategy?..... fill the people with all this garbage so they can come back in August and blame some wierd weather anomoly which interupted the almost certain 'normal monsoon' cycle????

Typical Thai government mentality.... Bury your heads in the sand and pray everyone else are wrong?

A possible drought in NSW in Australia has what impact on Thailand ? Less Aussies going to Phuket somhow ?

Sheeesh.

El Nino affects the entire western pacific. In case you did not know, the monsoon for most of Thailand comes from western pacific storms. The south gets a little extra from storms coming in from the Andaman sea and Indian ocean, but the highly populated north does not get these rains.

The whole of China and SE Asia will be affected badly, although most other countries have better water management and have better ability to harness water than Thailand.

So to recap... El Nino = no storms in the western pacific = no rain for SE Asia, and this El Nino cycle is forcast to be very severe and will peak in Septenmbe/October.... which happens to be our monsoon season.

40 million living north of BKK, this could get very messy indeed.

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Yes, it's a generalization, but a valid one. And yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and there are some very hard working Thai's here.

But ... if you've ever run a business here, or employed Thai's for any reason, for any job, you'd know how accurate JohnnyJazz generalization's actually are.

Well lets dissect his statement shall we? - "an unemployment rate of close to 0% ...the problem is Thais do not want to work". To me an unemployment rate of 0% suggests that most Thais are in fact working, correct? So the first part of the post seems slightly contradictory to say the least.

"Sustainability defined by being able to pay for their daily booze at which point they stop working". What a load of nonsense. A great many people do loads of overtime when it is on offer or work two jobs and actually save their money.

But all people see here is a couple of blokes having a beer at the end of the day - and jump to the conclusion that the vast majority of the working male population are lazy good for nothing alcoholics who work for their daily fix of booze.

(But of course were the same generalization to be aimed at all the foreigners having a pint in one of the many expat pubs around Thailand at the end of a working day the very hubris it would create from the expat community would defy all logic as they would rightly point out that they have worked very hard that day and deserve a couple of beers)

And the final sweeping statement - The problem in Thailand is work ethic - The problem is not a work ethic - as johnnyjazz already established with 0% unemployment that can't be the case. The problem is grinding poverty and a social system entrenched in maintaining the status quo by keeping alive the idea that the majority of the population (i.e. the poor) are on the whole lazy workshy alcoholics who if given the chance to better themselves would simply waste it, so why bother providing them with more opportunities and financial incentives to improve their lot in life.

Me, I take a slightly more optimistic view of my fellow man.

Like I said.

He is taking the lowest of the low social misfits that fester in EVERY society and is tarring the entire Thai workforce with the same brush.

Does this guy even live in Thailand?

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

So, how do I get the lazy folk in my neighborhood to do some work for me? I usually pay between B500 and B1500 for just a few hours of work and they still don't come and rather stay home an sleep. BS, sir.

I think the one with the problem is you.... Looking for the lazy workers, you are going to get lazy workers. Try looking for good workers. There are plenty out there and as someone who runs 3 businesses with my wife and anyone on here who employs Thais will tell you that the good workers far outnumber the bad ones and this is nothing that you will not find also in other even the most developed countries.

It is NOT a Thai thing.

All his noise around the 300 Bahts minimum wage has no meaning. The unemployment rate in Thailand is close to 0%. Businesses even paying more than the minimum 300 Bahts can't find workers. The problem is Thais do not want to work. As soon as they reach "sustainability", why means they can pay for their daily booze, they stop working. Increasing the minimum wage will just lower the number of working hours needed to reach this level. The problem in Thailand is work ethic. Success here means doing nothing. That's what need to be improved, not minimum wage.

Sorry Johnny but I have to disagree with you on that point.

I have know a lot of Thais who work bloody hard day in day out to support their families and your comments are nothing but stereotypical generalizations based on bar room hearsay.

Which part you don't agree with ? Thai unemployemnt is close to 0% ? Or that it's impossible to find "qualified" worker (maid, construction worker, gas station attendant, waitresses .... ) at THB 300 / day or even more ?

Yes there are people who work hard to make ends meet but dig a bit further and you will realize it's because they've to support an extended family (that part we agreee) of blood sucker lazy ass.

And no, it's not bar room hearsay, it's what owners of small and medium size companies I'm working with are telling me and official statistic you can find anywhere if you take the time to look for it.

Jonclark is 100% right.

You are stereotyping based on the few dregs of society and putting that stigma onto millions of Thais who do not have the opportunities. Either that or you are living in a westernised Thai bubble and you have no clue about real life outside of it.

There are literally millions who are born way outside the metropolitan areas. 40 million of them in Isaan. Many of whom have no access to proper education or live miles from industrialised areas and were basically raised in a subsistance lifestyle and know no better.

But to you they are lazy no-good blood suckers, which they are not.... If you knew any of them and actually took the time to drill down their life and upbringing, you would learn that they are actually very disadvantaged.

Go to any western country and there is no shortage of lazy assed workshy scum who have had full access to good quality education and training/work (With MUCH higher pay) opportunities that these poor sods can only dream about....... AND WASTED THEM..... In favour of a life on benefits.

So get off your judgemental, holier than thou high horse and get out there and look a bit closer at what is all around you, but you are yet to actually see.

No way can a couple live off 300 baht a day.... NO WAY.

Me and my wife pay one of our staff 300 baht for 3.5 hours a day. She workd 11am to to 2.30pm daily and then she has a few hours off and starts at a local restaurant from 5 to 11 pm and gets paid 150 baht. That is at a rate of about 25% what we pay.

She says if it was not for us, she would not be able to live.

I am even embarrassed to be paying only 300, but the wife says it is a lot. She is right, compared with Thais who use people as pretty much slave labour.... It is disgraceful.

The owners at this restaurant do give the staff free food, but only get the leftovers from the customers, and this restaurant is making an absolute fortune.

He's lost me too. The BOT was recently trying to lower the value of the baht to help exports. This would increase the value of the baht against the Euro, making Thai products more expensive in the Eurozone. The Eurozone countries and Thailand trade in USD because it is the international unit of trade. No one wants to try to juggle all of these different currencies around the world and do fx every time.

I get the math that it would result in more USD's paid (if the Eurozone kept buying,) but I don't get how that would be an advantage when major currencies have been in a race to the bottom to boost exports. Dunno.

I did quite a lot of trade within the EU from the UK.

Nobody traded in USD, it was all in Euros.

The wider world, yes... always in USD, but inside the Eurozone was always the Euro as the official trade currency.

Make a trade enquiry to any company in the EU for any product and I guarantee you will get a Euro price.

"should the euro's value against the dollar drop, since Thai exports run on dollars. Exporters would be smiling because Thai products would fetch more in dollars"

You've lost me there sunshine!

Who writes this stuff and more importantly, who employs these people?

Is all Thai commerce being moved over to Athens then?..... Lol

But a return to the drachma would cause chaos now that all bills are paid in euro

Well they did it back in 2001 when they changed from the Drachma to the Euro.... Just the same in reverse.

Bank accounts will be converted to Drachma at the push of a button and the people will likely have 3 months to surrender their Euros to the banks to exchange for Drachma. Not so hard really.

Then they have control of their currency and their future. They devalue making all their exports much cheaper than their EU competitors who are still chained to the very expensive Euro which to be honest is valued to suit the huge German and French economies.... ONLY.

Tourism will explode as it will be a very cheap destination for the near future at least.

If they stay in the Euro, they will face more misery and their economy will NEVER recover.