KhnomKhnom

Dear reader of the electrical info on thaivisa........

There is so much wrong, contradictory, and confused and confusing information here that if you read it all, as I have, you will have no guidance about which writing to obey. I recommend that you do not use this site for solid info about electrical wiring, etc., in Thailand.

All the info a normal homeowner needs is not all in one place and what is there is either in EMQTC non-world standard abbreviations over blown gobbly goop or does not apply to your situation totally.

I can say one thing for certain... do not yourself connect Thai two-wire electric supply wires, the incoming power wires, to earth/ground/dirt.

Do not connect any ground to your neutral wire, usually white and do not connect the other wire, hot/black, to any ground.

I should write the homeowners guide to grounding in layman's terms but not on thaivisa because it will just be contradicted by the local guess specialists.

OP, just where did you reference the earth being too low can cause an explosion? In fact, as far as I'm aware, the lower the better.

He is talking about a specific component failure which will be a bigger failure if the resistance to earth is very low. That type of failure is so rare that I would estimate the proverbial millionS to one chance.

Every socket I ever looked into in Thailand has two wires the same colour for the power, and if you are lucky (not normally) a different colour for earth.

The concept for neutral and phase wires may work in the west, but not here.

Couple of years ago I bought a extension bar with a little light on it that tells me if earth is OK, it cost about 400 baht and works good.

The better terms are hot and neutral.

I had a sparky, a while back, mouth off to me the lowly householder, not to do regular manual tests of RCB or ELCB, as it wears them out?

While on this visit, he was in the process of replacing one that had been tripping a lot, due to some water ingress into an external power outlet box.

Like any switch, the breaker will have a finite number of times to switch it on and off prior to failure. Probably the manufacturer of the breaker knows the range of this information. In a well designed and made breaker, higher cost, your number of cycle times should be in the thousands.

The breaker is not made to be a switch, but unless you test it three times a day for several years, your breaker will still be ok.

Under load, the switching off and on will also likely cause some minor arc which has the possibility of either building up insulating carbon on the conducting surfaces or pitting of those surfaces due to melting via the hot arc for a very short time. The switch should be built with a wiping action to wipe away carbon when switched. Hopefully, there is not a 10amp or more load on that circuit and if not, a melt arc should also not happen. Even 10amp once or twice should be ok.

This pinned stuff asserts, I guess from the phrases used, that if the resistance in a ground is too low, something will blow up. This is the height of non-sense.

Just saw this on Amazon UK

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Martindale-EZ150-Check-Impedance-Indicator/dp/B002L651LY/ref=sr_1_4/276-8035793-9097428?ie=UTF8&qid=1388905735&sr=8-4&keywords=martindale+tester

That is just an awesome piece of kit

RS Malaysia might do one, but their site is down at present.

Also available from RS Thailand:

http://thailand.rs-online.com/web/p/mains-socket-testers/7190901/

but I like this one better:

http://thailand.rs-online.com/web/p/mains-socket-testers/7190905/

This is where the uninformed give dangerous advice. The meter in question is rated at category 2 only. Could be good for working on cars.

The slightest fault - lightning strike, overvoltage or static discharge on the system will have this blow up in your face. Agreed unlikely for the domestic user but I will stick with Cat 4 meters, Type A fused leads thanks!

Thanks for the correction. Overall, I am amazed at how much wrong, and even dangerous, info is given on TV and the pinned info is as useful to the average homeowner as those things on a bull.

Mostly good stuff, just a couple of points KK

All new installations in the last 7 years or so should have 3-pin outlets with the third (ground) pin connected to a common 2-3m ground spike.

Thailand is now TNC-S with MEN (like Australia), a N-E link is REQUIRED on new installations and will be fitted if you have a Safe-T-Cut (front end RCD) installed, an RCD is also required on new installations.

Never link multiple ground rods together if they are more than about 3 metres apart, Thailand is a high lightning risk area, large ground potential gradients can lead to massive currents flowing in your earth links with the associated fire risks (Australia prohibits multiple rods for this reason).

14AWG wire does not exist here. The nearest metric size is 1.5mm² .

Avoid using silicone sealer on your ground rod, a coat of acrylic paint over the joint will do a better job of protecting it from the elements and is easier to apply.

200A will send your 14AWG ground wire into orbit, but good luck getting a rod anywhere near 1 Ohm unless you live in a swamp.

This document http://www.crossy.co.uk/Handy%20Files/groundwire.pdf is an official PEA interpretation of the Thai wiring rules, worth a look at the pictures for the way to connect that will get you past the MEA/PEA inspector.

You may wish to read the pinned thread on grounding here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/694261-how-to-check-your-earthing-system/

Seen on the pool table notice board in the Seoul Pub, Korea "We don't care what you do where you come from, this is what we do where you are". The same applies all over the world to wiring regs, if you installed a home in the UK to US code it would fail on multiple counts (and vice-versa).

I hope you do not think I am Crossing you, but your advice, in spots, is either dead wrong or misleading for those applications with only two wires.

Multiple grounding points, rods or other metal in the earth at different points on the dirt should, dare say MUST, be connected together to avoid one point becoming at a higher potential than another. This is proven in grounding in large new buildings and clearly in installations of antennas and electronics at radio tv transmitting stations.

Testing acrylic paint and silicone sealer over a 30 year period on metal exposed to lots of sun and weathering has proven to me that silicone sealer, preferably black in color, is vastly superior to acrylic paint. You are wrong on this point, too.

I see you are the local sparkie expert and will stop correcting you for fear of being banned. I only speak about what I know for sure, regardless of what Australia says or anyone else.

Short Background: As many may be familiar - in the U.S. there is a business niche in mail services. Typically titled something like - Wrap and Mail, Mail Boxes, etc. and similar names.

There's a 'Mail Boxes etc' in Hua Hin just down the road from where I live.

Here's a long list of all their Bangkok locations : http://www.mbethai.com/mbe_network_bangkok.asp

I

If you click the other links on the page you can see the other locations in the country.

I've never used them though.

Thank you... I am not sure why I couldn't find this...

So obviously it is legal to do this under some sort of corporate arrangement. I next have to find out how the ownership of 'Mail Boxes, Etc.' is formed .... Thai partners or what... If this type of business is restricted to Thai citizens - then I still have other hurdles to jump... If not ... then easier... I am lucky in that being an American I can set up under provisions of the Treaty of Amity which reduces some of the complications...

I am not looking to build a chain of such shops - just one or two to provide extra income and likely a WP along with a non imm B Visa. I don't need this for Visa purposes, I have an non imm 'O' and could get a Extension based on Retirement - but I have read that people on Retirement Extension cannot do this... I also read while there are no written restrictions - but Immigration just denies it anyway. So - converting to a Non Imm B would seem to be the reasonable thing to do.

Also, I was worried that the Thai Post officials would have a restriction against it - but seems not to be the case...

One other thing... Since Thailand is so stretched out geographically ... I would not expect competition from such entities as Mail Boxes, Etc. to rapidly expand over the entire country - just thinking out loud.

Thanks again .... you one post has really helped me a lot to see potential feasibility of this concept.

Dear sir, please realize that if you could not find the widely disbursed chain company MAIL BOXES, ETC. already active in Thailand for over ten yrs at least, are you the person to start a competitor company. You are nearly completely UNinformed about all aspects of what you are thinking about. Look in the mirror more.

Beware of reprinting propaganda and especially opening the way for this venue to be highjacked and taken over by the Red Chinese who are paid to search the Net and put on positive spin statements. Keep these cockroaches out of thaivisa if possible.

The 50 Cent Party are Internet paid liars *Foreign script removed* also called wumao.

I have thought about growing Georgia (usa) pine in Thailand ever since I was surprised not to be able to buy the backbone build-everything famous pine 2 by 4 in Thailand. I searched lumber stores here and could not find even normal dimensional lumber for building. The other famous building product, the rough sided 3/4 inch plywood sheets, seem unavailable either. I get lovely luan type smooth finish in thinner dimensions only.

There was recently a television show about the pine 2 by 4 showing how it is the basic building material for all the houses in America.

Treated pine posts are guaranteed for 20 years directly in soil and termites leave it alone.

I wanted to make a "saw horse" of pine dimensional lumber....... NO HAVE.

Another aspect of 'amazing thailand' that they build without this basic item.

Please raise some pine in Thailand !!!!!

Pine tree in Thailand? I don't thing the geography nor the climate will support

is contusive to pine growing and they need cool to cold weather to be able to\

flourish...

Please do not tell the tree farmers this in the usa state of Georgia where a huge amount of pine trees are successfully raised in very hot weather. Dont type about something you lack knowledge of.

On the forth floor :-(

Some suggestions run a green color insulation copper wire to

-the metal on the frame of the elevator/lift.

-some metal pipes inside a service hatch, but NOT the gas pipe.

-out through the wall and down to the dirt where you put in a 2meter ground/earthing rod.

Do not connect a "ground" to the neutral white wire in the incoming electrical supply wires.\

Maybe someone in the building has answer for that specific building.

Like watching paint peel off walls. This is not NASCAR.

The remotely located Burma rice farmer is your model to copy. He will never know the rest of the world has fallen apart unless a nuke cloud drifts over and then he will never know the world has fallen apart due to his death.

Prepping is simple in SEA, just go live in remote farming places and kick back and relax. Think of all the world disasters these people have already missed. Even the Mongols did not get to them.

Learn to LOVE rice.

I have read so much blather and dangerously wrong information here about grounding/earthing in Thailand, I am moved to give the facts.

This entry will apply to "most" Thailand homes that have TWO pin wall sockets. Basic facts:

-Hot wire is usually black and may be on either of the two pins on wall sockets.

-Neutral wire is usually white " " " " .

-there is no third pin, no ground, on the socket...... including three pin sockets where there is no wire on the third pin inside the socket.

-Do not connect the Neutral wire to ground. Do not connect the Hot to ground and not to the Neutral. In matters of grounding, just ignore the hot and neutral, in Thailand.

-You need to ground appliances or heaters that involve water, especially. Clothes or dish washers and dryers and the wall mounted hot water heaters on bath showers need grounding, and that means good connection to the dirt, not to a screw in the wall, as is often found.

-You can do this yourself, following my instructions, with small danger.

Example:

-Unplug the clothes washer.

-connect a #14 AWG green jacketed single wire from the ground screw on the metal enclosure of the washer, usually has a short pig tail of green wire on it and sometimes painted green.... Run the single wire, solid or stranded ok, in the shortest distance to the dirt/earth.

-Drive into real dirt, not a void under concrete slabs, a 2 to 3meter (6 to 8 foot) one copper coated steel ground rod.

-Connect the green wire to the top of the rod with the screw clamp sold for this purpose. Coat this joint with silicone sealer. Leave a 3inch loop of wire at this point to absorb dirt subsidence and movement up and down as Thailand dirt does in some places.

By eye, confirm that the green wire does connect the washer case to the ground rod.

This same process can be done for other appliances and especially the wall water heater in the bath shower.

If a person can touch simultaneously the bath shower water or knobs and any other grounded metal object, connect the ground rods together by wire which are attached to these objects. Make all things that can be touched same time ALL be connected with wire to all ground screw or at the ground rod at the dirt.

WIRING A GROUND AT YOUR SOCKET

The simplest way to obtain a ground at your two-pin socket is to install a three pin socket. If the socket is recessed into the wall, this will mean running the green ground wire outside the wall box and over the wall, so look at the alternative below.

-turn off all electric power to the home at the breaker box.

-open the socket and disconnect the black hot and the neutral white wires from the old socket.

-screw these two wires onto the hot and neutral pins of your new three-pin socket. If it is an American type socket that looks like a face with the ground pin at the bottom, the hot goes to the narrower pin opening and the neutral goes to the taller pin opening.

-screw your green ground wire to the ground pin on your new socket.

-run that ground wire to a ground rod as described above.

Make all new sockets in the room have the same ground rod. Do not install different ground rods for sockets that can be touched from one to the other; all new sockets in the room or near each other must have the same ground rod.

ALTERNATIVE

You can leave your two pin wall sockets undisturbed.

-get a two pin to three pin adapter that has a metal ring or tang on it sticking out the side; that metal tab connects only to the third grounding pin inside the adapter.

-solder or screw your green ground wire to this metal tab/ring.

-run that ground wire to the dirt and the ground rod as described above.

-plug into this adapter any three-pin plug and it will provide a ground to appliances or computers. If you use a three pin outlet socket strip, be sure the strip really has connection inside from the third pin on the plug to all the third sockets on the strip; many do not.

Notes...

-It would take more than 200amps to "overload" a good ground rod in dirt; well beyond normal home current loads.

-Ideal to connect with the green covered ground wire to all outside ground rods and connect all ground rods together with wire; ok to bury that wire or put it inside plastic tubing made to protect wires.

-Never connect your home neutral to ground; Thailand does not work that way.

-You can not obtain 110VAC from a Thai 220VAC wall socket by splitting (as can be done in USA); in Thailand, buy a large transformer made for this "step down" purpose to change 220 to 110.

-foreign strip outlet sockets with "protection" devices inside rated at 110VAC will just blow up in 220VAC in Thailand.

-No ground means no protection from "surge spike protector" socket strips sold for computers.

Good luck

Thailand's prudery and extensive censorship will keep it from any world leadership in the arts, ESPECIALLY fashion.

No serious famous and competent artist of any media would work in Thailand nor come to teach due to censorship.

Also, Buddhism is not arts oriented and one could argue that there is no such thing as Buddhist art.

I say, Thailand sell edible insects, rice, and hard drives; forget about developing the arts.

But he failed to explain that the army failed to support the elected government making it powerless.

The subtle key phrase was about possible bloodshed. "Someone" was funding a private army to destabilize Thailand and seize power again, and this time with guns and .... upon "someone's" return, this time, no more Mr. Nice Guy.

Polluted "elections" are not democracy, the local elections were polluted, so it is impossible that the Army displaced a real "elected government."

^ Nope you are not Trolling, but be careful because maybe your other self may get banned her on TV

You are witnessing a centuries old tradition of showing deference and respect to "one's betters." In Asia, anyone deemed to rank higher than a person is supposed to treat the "betters" with downcast eyes and never to volunteer to speak to them. Even if pressed, the person should answer briefly and with downcast eyes.

Thai are just showing you respect and you are too uninformed to understand that tradition.

Reading the www.thaivisa.com comments, I see clearly that many typing here do not respect anything.... not their fellows who ask for help, not those who volunteer help and info, and perhaps not even themselves. No wonder RESPECT is a mystery to some folks here.

I know Brits come from a "ruling class" mentality including a trained feeling of superiority to other people, especially very foreign and with darker skin. So a Brit should already know how to act around his conquered subjects... study UK dealings with India, for examples.... even if that only includes his gf and hirelings I guess you typists do not understand the undeserved honor Thai are extending to you.

Thailand is not UK nor America.

You are witnessing a centuries old tradition of showing deference and respect to "one's betters." In Asia, anyone deemed to rank higher than a person is supposed to treat the "betters" with downcast eyes and never to volunteer to speak to them. Even if pressed, the person should answer briefly and with downcast eyes.

Thai are just showing you respect and you are too uninformed to understand that tradition.

Reading the www.thaivisa.com comments, I see clearly that many typing here do not respect anything.... not their fellows who ask for help, not those who volunteer help and info, and perhaps not even themselves. No wonder RESPECT is a mystery to some folks here.

I know Brits come from a "ruling class" mentality including a trained feeling of superiority to other people, especially very foreign and with darker skin. So a Brit should already know how to act around his conquered subjects... study UK dealings with India, for examples.... even if that only includes his gf and hirelings I guess you typists do not understand the undeserved honor Thai are extending to you.

Thailand is not UK nor America.

Hi, yes I have extension of stay just required retirement visa in Pattaya showing money in bank, visa with multiple in out options with out going to immigration, I have re entry permit already stamped in passport is that the number I use to fill in form when I re enter, thanks for quick reply.

Get the form, fill it out, and DO NOT LOSE the part you keep. Took me miserable 4 hours to get 'replacement.'

....I beg to differ....I accidentally used an adaptor (Orange 3 to 2) from North America....it melted and almost caught fire.

Without an autopsy we can't be sure what happened but American appliances pull a lot more current due to the lower mains voltage. That means extension cords must have higher gauge wire at the same power rating. I've spliced several "heavy duty" extension cords here and the wire appeared to be 24AWG or smaller.

#24AWG is too small for normal use at 220VAC;;;;;;;;;; maybe ok for short runs and very low wattage devices, 5 watts or so.

....I beg to differ....I accidentally used an adaptor (Orange 3 to 2) from North America....it melted and almost caught fire...

....it only took an instant to blow my Drill Battery Charger on the wrong setting too....

...do not skimp.....and be careful....there are frequent power surges in Thailand as well....

Melting an adapter indicates really huge loads or a connection defect in the adapter. At 220VAC, your load is likely to be at 50Amps or more to get that kind of heating. Fifty amps is a very large load.

Thanks lopburi3, ye who has saved my posterior on many an immigration question.

I'd seen those but unfortunately they won't fit into the recessed female outlet on the power pack.

1. Power rating. Current is the deciding factor for wire sizes. When you double the voltage, like 110 to 220 (USA to Thailand), you half the current. That means you need SMALLER wire in Thailand for the same wattage lamp or other load as usa.

2. The standard USA "orange extension cords" have #14 AWG wire on the black and the white, and the better ones same for the green ground wire, or #16 for ground. THAT IS TWICE AS HEAVY AS NEEDED IN THAILAND. Some American cords, sold as heavy duty, have #12AWG wires in them; even better for Thailand. Smaller number equals larger wire. Standard stuff sold in Thailand is the metric near equivalent of #16AWG which works ok.

3. Those standard cords are double insulated with a very good exterior jacket (the orange stuff) and also insulation on all three wires inside the orange jacket. Although sold for 110VAC, that insulation is perfectly OK for 220VAC.

4. For your specialized male socket on the light's strip, you may have to buy the size you want from Amazon.com or even in Thailand for that special type of recessed male socket.

You really screwed up by leaving your USA cords behind. They will work just fine on 220VAC. Actually, the higher voltage also allows longer runs for the same loads, too. I regularly use my USA orange cords in lengths of 150feet with small voltage drop and no overheating.

Feel of the wires to check for heating and DO NOT COIL the wire, like on the reels, because there is some tiny chance of induction heating in that coil. DO NOT USE USA STYLE METAL RING SOCKETS AND PLUGS... if either end has a metal ring around the plug/socket, it is likely that metal is connected to the green ground wire which can somehow get connected to the hot or neutral lines and your touching that metal with run 220vac through you as mine did me. I lived.

I read the question and the first few "answers" below it. Once again, I am embarrassed for you and the other typists I read.

First to the questioner: Asians of the old school will not speak to nor even look at a person they deem higher than themselves. Asian students came to my university office for questions and then show deference this way... sitting quietly, eyes down, and very slowly can I get them to speak and find out what they need. They show DEFERENCE to me as teacher and American. Deference is an aspect of RESPECT.

For your Thai visitor to speak to you or interrupt your sitting or whatever you are doing would be the height of disrespect to the man who is taking care of her sister, and her on occasion. Asia is not the UK. You have to stop thinking that spending money on Thai family is somehow a big gift that buys you the right to rule over them; Thai are generous and give as a habit,and within the family, just natural without the idea of you buying them.

I am sick of the general attitude of typists here of superiority and the desire to force Thai people to be like they want. I wrote about this CULTURAL IMPERIALISM some months ago on this venue. Maybe imperialism comes with citizens of the largest empire the world has ever seen, but it only causes trouble when those citizens are outnumbered in foreign lands that they do not understand and have no interest in understanding. The trouble, in this case, comes to the empire people, not the Asians, because "empire rules" do not apply in Thailand.

You fellows have a funny idea about buying a woman here; just because she puts up with you does not mean that you have made a purchase.