BKKBike09

I still disagree with the "any battery type" as all the literature I've read / videos I've watched strongly supports the view that, compared to Lithium Ion batteries, LFP batteries a) are much less prone to thermal runaway; b) that if thermal runaway does occur, it reaches much lower temperatures (c. 500 C. - still hot, of course); and c) that LFP thermal runaway does not typically involve self-combustion. Basically the battery can get hot, it may rupture and vent gases, but it will not normally catch fire without an ignition source.

If I may .... I agree with you in respect of the greater intensity of an EV battery fire compared to an ICE fire. I think it is statistically unlikely to happen, but if it does, it is undeniably very bad news and results in a major blaze, in very short order, that is hard to extinguish. However, I'm not sure why you say "it is almost certain both fires were started by EVs"? If you said "it is almost certain that, once the fire started, regardless of cause, if EVs then combusted, the ensuing blaze would have been intense". As to what started those fires - an electrical short circuit can cause a fire anywhere (just look at how many fires are caused in Thai homes by short circuits). The trend these days is for more and more electronics in cars, whether EV or ICE, so statistically the risk of short circuit likely increases for both. It's also important to note that an EVs low power systems are invariably supplied by a standard 12/24V lead acid battery because it's cheaper - and safer - than some sort of step-down system drawing from a 400 or 800V main cell. The basic electrical system (locks, windows, wipers, ignition etc) is isolated from the main power cell, so a short in the former shouldn't affect the latter. I'm not sure how a main power cell would short if not subjected to some form of damage. Also, do you accept that the risk of thermal runaway - especially leading to spontaneous combustion - is much, much lower with LiFePO4 (FFP) chemistry batteries? If you don't accept this, why? Similarly - and correct me if I am wrong - but your comment "EV fires supply their own fuel and oxygen" relates to older Lithion Ion battery chemistry (which I will agree is still what powers most EVs on the road at the moment), where decomposition of the cobalt oxide or manganese oxide in the cathode is what generates the 'in-house' O2 supply. LFP batteries use lithium iron phosphate as the cathode material - again my understanding is that the oxygen component is too tightly bound for combustion even in thermal run-away.

I downloaded it from BYD NZ. The Thai language manual is actually a translation of this, so it talks about stuff the TH market cars don't have (eg heated seats and dynamic range display, as opposed to the factory predicted range remaining).

It's a good question. I think driving through flood water is one thing, letting any car stand in it for hours is another. The BKK deluge a few weeks back had me nervous. Water got up to the sills on my EV; it was over the exhaust pipe on the wife's car, although by then I'd sealed it with plastic bags and rubber bands. Water in the soi was much deeper so no option of driving to higher ground. However EV seems fine and no sign of any corrosion that I can see with torch / mirror on a stock etc. Hasn't thrown up any error messages. Owners' manual says "The motor will be seriously damaged if it is submerged when crossing a flooded area. Such damaged is not covered by the vehicle's warranty. Other systems like transmission, driving and electrical may also be seriously damaged upon submersion. Such damage is not covered by the vehicle's warranty either." But it also says: "Do not drive in flooded areas where water is deeper than half the tire height."

I did try to watch through to the end but felt he was taking 20 mins to say what could be said in 5 mins. The rambling to one side, he has a valid point: that while EV fires are actually quite rare, they're bad news when they do happen, especially in confined spaces. However, there's no discussion about the different types of battery chemistry. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP - LiFePO4) technology is much less prone to thermal runaway than the various types of Lithium Ion battery, whether caused by charging issues / heat or physical damage eg rupture of some sort. This experiment is a good example - drilling holes in an LFP battery to see what happens (a Lithium Ion battery went straight to thermal runaway). Here's the Lithium Ion test. Scary! My EV (BYD) has an LFP battery, which was one of the major selling points for me. There are lots of good things about driving an EV but one should never forget that a battery stores a huge amount of energy.

It's all very rum. The video can be found here: https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/news-update/1081535 It's not 'a group of foreign mafia'. There's only one man - who does have a gun - and other people turn up on scooters and go and join the group of detainees. The gunman is also aided, it seems, by a local 'attack dog'.

Of course, the obsession with not upsetting minority groups through use of the "wrong" pronouns does sometimes produce unintentional comedy classics: "Bonus hole – An alternative word for the vagina preferred by some trans men and/or non-binary people with a cervix. It is important to check which words someone would prefer to use." https://www.jostrust.org.uk/professionals/health-professionals/nurse-gp/trans-non-binary/language

It's the truth. Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert (newsweek.com) Er - that article actually says of the 'Fascism expert': "While not directly describing DeSantis as a fascist ..." If he's really a fascist, why doesn't the expert just say that?

Snakeskin boots! That's surely not very PC.

'Bob' is part of the white male patriarchy that dominates modern Western society. However, after participating in (compulsory) diversity & inclusion training, he is now more highly attuned to white fragility and his complicity in historical ills such as slavery (his great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, 'Old Bob', bought some sugar from the West Indies in 1786). In fact, Bob is currently transitioning and it is now more correct to say "Bob's your Aunt".

I see BYD have a fancy web site in English (it may have been up for ages, but I only just noticed it). It's quite impressive - not just knocked up in an afternoon 'because we need to have a web site'. https://www.byd.com/en-th/car/atto3

It's a TBM930 - he had a different TBM before this one.

I don't think we were getting 178hp per litre 100 years ago. ???? No, we weren't. However I said: "Today's ICE represents 100+ years of evolution - but it's still basically 100+ year old tech". The 100+ years of evolution may give 178bhp/l but an ICE is still at heart a 100+ year old technology - some method of mixing/compressing fuel and air, igniting that, harnessing the explosive energy and disposing of the waste gases.

Thanks, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the current industry status in that I believe 1) EVs are by no means 'fairly perfected at this point', and 2) batteries need a lot more than a 'tweak' to improve range etc. But all that will come, and come pretty fast. I suspect that in a generation (20 years) people will look at mainstream Lithium / Nickel / Cobalt EV battery tech as belonging in a museum. It also doesn't help that global reserves of key current ores are concentrated in places like DRC, Russia and China. Seems like some pretty amazing ideas being explored right now: https://www.netscribes.com/ev-battery-technology-evolution/ https://www.azocleantech.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1651

I like driving cars / bikes fast. That's invariably meant ICE powered. Today's ICE represents 100+ years of evolution - but it's still basically 100+ year old tech. Massive amounts of money and brainpower are being focused, globally, on the EV industry and frankly it's all still early days. But I'm sure an EV brought to market 10 years from now will be hugely different from an EV on the market today in terms of battery capacity, charging time and safety. Even three years ago I couldn't conceive of buying an EV. Now I have a cheap(ish) Chinese one and I'm generally very impressed. Sure it doesn't have the fueling convenience of an ICE but I'm coming round to the understanding that this just requires a little planning, and that many other features of an EV ride offset this considerably. IMO tech and the times are moving on. That also means there's many new drivers who'll not have ICE experience, so will just accept the EV experience as the way things are. Can't resist the march of progress and all that.

Actually, not to nit pick, but it will if you have a Nissan Kicks. That being the (to me bizarre) EV that generates its electricity from an, er, onboard petrol engine.

Quite surprised by this from Devon & Somerset Fire Brigade - "Each year we help around 650 people whose vehicle has caught fire. Fires are most likely to start when you're driving which can be a terrifying experience." https://www.dsfire.gov.uk/safety/on-the-road/car-and-vehicle-fires Doesn't say how many of those are ICE/EV incidents, but seems like quite a lot however you cut it. I'd extrapolate that to mean that there's a risk of your car vehicle catching fire no matter what sort of energy powers it.

Unless MFP have the financial backers to mobilise and support long-term street protests, nothing much will happen. MFP / Pita have been naive in banging on about reform of Section 112. Students in Bangkok might like the sound of it, but many, many average Thai voters see it as inappropriate or worse.

If you're still interested in an Atto, this is a post of mine from the long thread about EVs in Thailand: The quick summary would be: Good External / interior styling (very subjective) Build quality (but see below) Comfort (but see below) Relaxing to drive Reasonably powerful (will get up to 150 kmh quite happily and quite quickly) Good range (at least 350-400 km) Panoramic glass roof (a big selling point for me) with sunshade Good interior space Both front seats electrically adjustable (but no memory settings) Built in dashcam GPS works pretty well (but no Thai language search option) Not So Good Suspension - way too soft and spongy (not an issue around town but not so good at any speed) as soon as decent aftermarket options available, I'm going to ditch the stock set up Build quality - well put together but the panel metal is the thinnest I've ever seen (already got two tiny dents in mine) Comfort - One-piece front seats mean no adjustable head restraints Tyres - cr*p Chinese no name; but fine for town driving Tech - too much of it that can't be permanently disabled Cruise control - fiddly to set, very hard to see speed set, only goes up/down in 5 kmh intervals AirCon - not always as cold as I think it should be No spare tyre

Try selling a 10-year old diesel car in UK these days and not taking a big hit.

That study is three years old - that's relevant because that means all the EVs included were using the older Lithium Ion (LI) battery tech. The newer Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LFP - a la BYD) have various advantages over the older tech, one of the key ones being that you can leave an LFP plugged in to charge up to 100% (ie leave it plugged in at night and go to bed) with no battery degradation. Also, LFP batteries will take many more charge/discharge cycles before degrading.

I've been driving an Atto 3 (the one with the bigger battery) since January. My view: it's a great car for commuting. It's also pretty good for round trips of up to around 300 km. 'Real range' as opposed to marketing guff is around 350-400 km (although you could probably squeeze up to 450 km if you drive slowly). It's well built and comfortable / relaxing to drive in town. The flat floor is great for rear seat passengers. Instant torque is quite satisfying. But I would only recommend if you can install your own AC charger (ie you live in a house, not a condo). I wouldn't buy an EV if I had to faff around finding places to charge. As to 'economy'. Charging it from say 20% to 90%, which is about 300 km of range, costs about THB 230 (42 kw/h x THB 5.5). Servicing is also free apart from consumables for 8 years, I think. Flip-side is that EVs are much more expensive than a similar spec ICE so unless you do A LOT of mileage it will take years to match the saving on fuel with the additional up front capital cost. Plus secondhand market for EVs is an unknown. The battery tech is moving fast / so many new brands and models coming out that in 5 years a second-hand Atto could be a tough sell, although at least its battery tech (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is a step up on most of the other brands/models currently available here.

Right click and new tab works for me too (on a Mac). Another thing I've noticed is that notifications now only say 'somebody' responded to a post. As you imply, I'm confident AN are hard at wotk on the case ...

It's THB 30 for a border pass. https://travel.trueid.net/detail/P0GprJoM9JO3 It's THB 1,400 for a Tourist Visa (either at Lao Embassy in BKK or on arrival in Nong Khai) https://www.travelclick.biz/visa_info_th.php?visa_id=31

Er. No.