up-country_sinclair

This isn't over yet, but it was a great day for justice, human rights, and peace.

The Israel problem is not going to end with an extremist like Netanyahu in power. Therefore, this would be a great opportunity for the Israeli people rise up and demand a new way forward that will lead to peace.

Standing Ovation at UN for Palestine's Statehood Bid

23/09/2011 Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas got a standing ovation while addressing the UN General Assembly - shortly after submitting the bid for ...

He received another rousing, standing ovation when he declared that Palestine should be full member state based on the 1967 borders. It's not a question of if but when, and 'when' is coming a lot sooner than Israel and it's apologists would like to acknowledge.

The nations of the world support Palestine and its people against the oppressive Israeli regime and its extremist Netanyahu government.

Here's the historic photo of Abbas submitting the letter requesting statehood to UN Sec. Gen. Ban Ki-Moon.

Enjoy!

This should be interesting.

I could be wrong, but, I do not think that Steely Dan posted the 30% figure

He cited it at least once.

^^ SteelyDan, This will be my third request on this thread asking for you to provide a link to the 30% poll. If you're unwilling or unable, please let me know, because to be quite frank, I'm growing tired of asking.

IMHO, this oft repeated talking point demands further examination if we are to fully debate this topic.

There are 15 members on the UN Security Council, and as of this moment, Palestine has the support of eight: Nigeria, Brazil, Russia, China, India, Lebanon, South Africa, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Gabon.

Remaining members include France, UK, USA, Portugal, S. Africa, Colombia, and Germany.

Everyone knows the US is going to veto, but one more vote would make 9, which would be enough for full membership. I can't even imagine the pressure being applied to Portugal, S. Africa and Columbia by Israel and the US.

But as I already stated, full membership will have to be put on a temporary hold, and non member status will still be a historic victory because it protect Palestinians from future acts of Israeli aggression.

This thread is about two years old, but I was wondering if there are any current thoughts on this topic.

IMHO, the populist policies the current government all but ensure an inflationary environment. However, I'm interested to hear the opinions of others.

Looks like the Palestinians didn't like Obama's speech, so intifada III it is, not that there was ever going to be any other outcome and the whole UN charade was merely a pretext for the violence which has already started.

You can try to spin this all day long, but this historic moment is anything but a charade, and the entire world (including Israel) knows it.

The overwhelming majority of the world's nations are going to vote in favor of Palestine, which will give them non-member status and therefore the ability to bring Israel before the International Criminal Court. This is the beginning of the end to the injustice and oppression that the Palestinians have endured at the hands of the Israelis for far too long.

And by the way, still waiting for a link to the oft repeated talking point that only 30% of Palestinians support statehood. I, for one, would like to see the polling questions.

^^

Thanks for moving the thread.

^

That's an excellent suggestion. Thanks.

What I can't get my head around is how a majority of UN member states plus sundry Thai Visa posters who claim to have no dog in this fight seem far keener on the Palestinians having a state than the Palestinians of the West bank do, judging by the 30% support Al-Jazeera quoted,

I've seen this 30% figure posted here by the usual suspects, but not the actual source itself. I've just gone back a few pages on this thread but again, no link.

I did a google search, and couldn't find it. However, a different ThaiVisa thread came up with the 30% claim, but no link.

I'm not saying the link doesn't exist (I certainly could have missed it), but I think some verification should be required for something that is being repeated so frequently. And then once the link is provided, the polling questions themselves can be examined. I think there's more than meets the eye here, and some are trying obfuscate the truth to further their agenda.

The USA says Palestine can only become a 'state' by direct negotiations with Israel.

Well that makes it very simple for Israel doesn't it. The world tells Israel to stop the illegal settlements, Israel continues. Palestinians tell Israel to stop the illegal settlements and the peace talks can continue. Israel continues.

If Israel were really wanting dialogue they would stop the illegal acts. But they don't, they don't want Palestine to be a state. Works out very well for them to keep the Palestinians in no mans land so they can continue their expansionism.

Exactly.

And Israel doesn't want Palestine to be a full member of the UN because that would level the playing field. And when the overwhelming majority of the world's nations soon vote in favor of Palestine, it will be a deafening rebuke of Israeli policy.

I was just contacted by a friend who requires the services of a highly qualified Spanish to English interpreter for a meeting in Bangkok next month. The ideal candidate would be a native Spanish speaker from Central or South America with experience providing simultaneous translation in a business environment. Can anyone recommend an agency which would be able to provide this type of person?

Thanks very much in advance.

Apologies if this is in the wrong part of the forum, but I couldn't determine where it should go.

This dispute is not about land, it never was

Even with your highly biased blinkers you have to realize this is an absurd statement.

And you claim to be informed on this topic? Oy vey!

Excuse me, but could we please possibly get back to the topic?

Israel's Netanyahu says Palestinian statehood bid at UN will fail

Perhaps a better headline would be:

Israel's Netanyahu says Palestinian statehood bid at UN will fail, but is privately wetting himself because Palestinians are very likely to achieve non-member status which will allow them to bring Israel in front of the International Criminal Court.

OK, maybe that headline is too long.

It is pretty obvious that some posters are anti-Semitic, but, thankfully, the mods have been pretty good about silencing the more blatant ones.

Again, more veiled implications. Who, exactly, are you referring to (blatant or otherwise)?

By the way, resorting to this level of smear only proves that you've lost the debate.

EDIT to provide further support. This is a perfect example of what I'm referring to.

I do not see any members referring to anyone posting here as anti-Semitic.

It is pretty obvious that some posters are anti-Semitic

I do not see any members referring to anyone posting here as anti-Semitic.

I didn't notice that either.

Maybe you should pay closer attention--to your own posts.

Maybe you lost your copy of the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

This is exactly what I was referring to on the previous page. This thread (and others on related topics) are littered with veiled implications that some posters are anti-Semites. Disagreeing with the policies of the current Israeli regime does not make one an anti-Semite. And to be quite frank, it's offensive that one is forced into a position to make such a statement.

My support is about Israel's right to EXIST and keep it's Jewish identity.

The Palestinian Authority and (to the best of my knowledge) everyone posting on this thread has long recognized Israel's right to exist. But you're being disingenuous with the "Jewish identity" bit. Netanyahu is demanding what no previous Israeli govt. has put forward: that Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state. If Netanyahu was truly interested in peace he would drop this toxic rhetoric from the negotiations. But he's not, and that's why Israel finds itself so isolated from the nations of the world.

if you are asking if Israel should treat Arab non-Israeli citizen residents of the west bank as Israeli citizens, let's keep this simple. NO! As far as the 20 percent of Israeli citizens that are Arabs, of course they deserve full equal rights. My impression is that they are somewhat under the bar of full rights, but not massively so, but definitely room for improvement.

As you posted, "let's keep this simple", democracy does not exist in partial measures. Either a state has a functioning democracy or it doesn't.

Keeping it even simpler (for fear of being disparaged again as 'cryptic'), one can't be a little bit pregnant.

Israel has a choice to make. Full stop.

I am pro-Israel (its continued existence as a Jewish state

Do you want Israel to be a Jewish state or a democratic state, because as even the Israeli government knows, you're not going to be able to have both in the very near future.

That's a silly question. Of course I WANT democracy in Israel, or anywhere. If you are talking about creeping theocracy in Israel, I totally oppose it. However, I would still support their right to exist if that's where it's going. In my view, Jewish state simply means a nation state homeland for the Jewish PEOPLE.

1. It may make you feel better to label something as "silly" just because you don't understand it, but that really doesn't further the discussion, does it? You might consider asking for a clarification or further explanation in the future

2. A Jewish state in which Jews have special rights and privileges cannot be truthfully be described as a democracy. Very soon Israel is going to have to choose if it wants to be considered a Jewish state or democratic state.

3. Followers of Judaism are adherents to a religion, not a people.

As a side note, I, for one, would truly find it refreshing if the pro Israel posters on this board would refrain from incessantly making references to the Holocaust and labeling those opposed to the current Israeli regime as anti-Semites.

I am pro-Israel (its continued existence as a Jewish state

Do you want Israel to be a Jewish state or a democratic state, because as even the Israeli government knows, you're not going to be able to have both in the very near future.

As I've stated before this is a game without end which was never intended to end except with the annihilation of Israel.

So which is it then?

By the way, you do have a flair for the dramatic, don't you?

You're responding to this post but you haven't addressed the fact that the poster is equating a UN vote to war.

Anyway, in response to your post, over the past twenty years, direct talks with Israel have done little more than produce more illegal settlements. You can't seriously think that the Palestinians are going to put up with this forever, can you?

I think the Palestinians are looking for war. They won't even take the first step and accept Israel's existence.

Now you're being disingenuous. The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly recognized Israel's right to exist. I assume you're referring to (but not implicitly stating) the radical terminology about a "Jewish state" used by the current Israeli administration. No previous Israeli administration has demanded this type of terminology, and that tells you all you need to know about how sincere their efforts are at obtaining peace.

I'm not so sure what's so radical about having one Jewish state in the world

As I stated in post (which you copied, yet seemingly did not read), not a single previous Israeli administration has demanded this sort of terminology. Netanyahu's regime is not interested in peace, only war. This is why they sabotage any real efforts at diplomacy, this is why they continue with illegal settlements, and this is why they are so scared of the UN vote on Palestinian statehood.

The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly recognized Israel's right to exist.

The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly claimed to recognize Israel in English and then denied it in Arabic.

I wasn't aware that you are fluent in Arabic.

You're responding to this post but you haven't addressed the fact that the poster is equating a UN vote to war.

Anyway, in response to your post, over the past twenty years, direct talks with Israel have done little more than produce more illegal settlements. You can't seriously think that the Palestinians are going to put up with this forever, can you?

I think the Palestinians are looking for war. They won't even take the first step and accept Israel's existence.

Now you're being disingenuous. The Palestinian Authority has repeatedly recognized Israel's right to exist. I assume you're referring to (but not implicitly stating) the radical terminology about a "Jewish state" used by the current Israeli administration. No previous Israeli administration has demanded this type of terminology, and that tells you all you need to know about how sincere their efforts are at obtaining peace.

Their unilateral approach

this unilateral action

Unilateral action/approach must be the new talking point which is somehow meant to demonize bringing resolutions before UN members for an up or down vote on statehood.

Good luck with that.