Gecko123

The big mystery at this point is why no one has come forward to report they have at least seen the woman in the past. Her tattoos were on her right hand and would be very hard to miss. This story has been all over the news, reported in the Singapore press, and I have to assume in other SE Asian countries as well. Whoever did this had a team of men who were accustomed to following orders. You had to dig a grave deep enough to accommodate two bodies. You'd need pickaxes, shovels, hoes, earth scoopers. You'd likely encounter some big tree roots, maybe some large rocks in the subsoil. You'd need water, possibly food. You'd have to fill the grave back in. Make sure you didn't leave any debris like food wrappers, cigarette butts, shoe prints/foot prints, clothing behind which would leave clues or attract attention. Presumably they had to spend time looking for the bullet casings, but maybe not. They had to dispose of the victim's clothing and other personal items. Somebody had to lug at least 2-3 bags of cement, maybe sand, water, equipment and tools to mix it all up with 400 meters into the woods , mix it all up, carry it in buckets over to the grave site, pour it over the bodies, and then do clean up of the cement mixing operation and bring everything back to a waiting vehicle by the road. That's a lot of manpower which I doubt very many people would be able to organize on the spur of the moment after, say, you've unexpectedly committed a crime of passion. There had to have been some form of organization in place prior to the murders being committed. Because of the planning and organizing which would have been required, I suspect that there had to have been some "brains" of the operation, supervising all of this activity, and all of the subordinates. Unless the cement mixing operation and grave preparation site were prepared in advance of the murders I don't see how they could have pulled this off without at least 4-6 people. And don't forget you probably needed someone to stay with the vehicle to serve as a lookout. The subordinates were experienced working together and following orders either as part of a gang or possibly because they were forced to perform these acts out of fear for their own lives, i.e., possible victims of human trafficking. If the murder victims were in the country illegally, and sequestered in some way from day-to-day contact with everyday Thais, that could explain why no one has reported them missing. If the individuals who dug the grave and mixed the cement were also part of a sequestered group of human trafficking victims, that would also explain where the manpower necessary to pull this off came from, and why no one has come forward to report the victims missing. The other possibility I came up with is that this might be a murder-for-hire double cross. The woman hires someone to kill the foreigner to steal cash. The plan is for her to lure him out into the woods under some pretense where he will be ambushed and killed, and for whatever reason, the gang decides to kill her as well, possibly because a large amount of cash is discovered on his person. Plus, if they were still alive when they walked into the woods, were they coerced at gun point, or did they have no idea they were in danger? This scenario would explain the apparent criminal sophistication and level of experience. "Organized crime" mafia hit seems a bit of a long shot to me. What's the motive? Drug deal gone bad? Loan sharking bad debt? If financial retribution was the motive, isn't there usually just one person who did something shady? Why a couple? If it was a crime of passion, say a case of a cheating wife and boyfriend being murdered, most of the time the impulse to kill is immediate and on the spot, like in the bedroom where they're caught. While you might take the bodies out into the woods and bury them after you kill them, it would be unusual in a crime of passion to take someone out in the woods, before shooting and burying them. Also, if it was a crime of passion, you would think the wife/girlfriend had family/friends/neighbors who would have reported her disappearance by now.

The reason the high level police official "Big Mai" was brought in is because so much inter agency and inter departmental coordination (Interpol, FBI, Immigration, fingerprint forensics, ballistics) is needed and due to the criminal sophistication of the crime. Identifying the victims is key to making progress on the case. Although police initially thought solving the case would be relatively easy, the perpetrators have proven to have expertise in concealing the identity of the victims and destroying evidence, etc. It is now being described as one of the most challenging cases they have ever encountered. A villager out looking for mushrooms found freshly dug soil collapsed into a rectangular shape similar to a grave, with branches laid over it in an effort to conceal it. The villager consulted with the village headman, police were notified, and they returned with shovels to dig and discover what lay beneath. After a few shovelfuls of soil, they uncovered part of a body. After digging a hole 80 cm wide, 2 meters long, 40-70 cm deep, a female body was found naked, lying face down. When the body was brought up, another layer of cement was found, and the mortar was smashed out. Another body, a male, nude, was discovered. The male's head was turned in the opposite direction of the female's head. The male's physique was described as "quite different" from a typical Thai physique, and it has since been determined that he is a foreigner. The shooting is now believed to have occurred at the scene but police have been unable to find any witnesses who heard gunshots, raising the possibility that the killing either occurred late at night when villagers were asleep, or that a silencer may have been used. The area has a large number of migrant workers, and motives ranging from disputes, adultery, or conflicts between migrant workers are being explored. Investigators have also been questioning local communities to find out if anyone has a foreign son-in-law between 170-180 cm who went missing at least three days ago. The above details have been compiled from various English and Thai language news reports posted over the past 24 hours.

The Five Precepts Refrain from taking life. Not killing any living being. ... Refrain from taking what is not given. Not stealing from anyone. Refrain from the misuse of the senses. Not having too much sensual pleasure. ... Refrain from wrong speech. ... Refrain from intoxicants that cloud the mind. It's obviously silly to suggest that as long as you don't steal, gossip, or commit adultery, you could be a serial murderer and a meth head and still be considered a good Buddhist. I'm not pretending to be knowledgeable about Buddhism but your claim that the Five Precepts are some sort of airline menu from which to choose your moral appetizer, main entrée, and dessert is highly suspect. My understanding is that the Five Precepts are all bed stone principals of Buddhism.

Bullet point summary of information learned from 8/2/2022 https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/news/1018538 article: The deceased have yet to be identified because of decomposition of the bodies. Standard fingerprinting methods were difficult and special experts have been called in, the same team that helped verify the identity of people who died during the tsunami. It uses fine dust to collect the fingerprints of the deceased. If it is found that there are more than 10 points, then the person can be verified. A sanitary napkin was found near the grave. Significance unknown. Have not yet been able to verify identities using Department of Provincial Administration or Immigration Office databases. The firearm model and brand are known, but this type of gun has special characteristics that are used for a specific group and is quite popular. The firearms investigation is being assigned to a special police unit. The silicone chip in the breast implant has been being investigated since the first day that the body was found. Dealers in Thailand have not found this lot of product serial numbers in Thailand. The police are currently in the process of coordinating requests for information from foreign originating companies to inspect microchips embedded in silicone. As for the woman's tattoos, preliminary inquiries were made to representatives of the Tattoo Artists Association to find out that Mandala tattoos of this type are not popular among Thai women. And from 60-70% of nationwide inspections, they found no tattoos of the same type as the deceased. Have not been able to confirm woman's identify or confirm Thai nationality. The man, from preliminary examination, is not Asian. He was described as "almost white", with curly Negroid like hair. Efforts to identify him are now been coordinated with Interpol and FBI agents, and Thai police are awaiting a response. It is possible that both of them may be foreigners who were illegally in the country. The deputy police chief admitted that the case was a difficult case because the perpetrators are skilled at committing crimes, concealing bodies and destroying evidence. Also the exact date and time of the incident is unknown.

I see you called me Geeko. Good one, Pinocchio.

Sometimes they do. https://cocodeebokohchang.com/koh-chang-live-camera

Did you even read the Thai Examiner article???? https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/07/30/recreational-pot-cannabis-use-to-be-recriminalised/ Quote: Bhumjaithai Party has not seen much political gain from marijuana or cannabis legalisation and may lose further as public opposition and fears grow The extended decriminalisation of marijuana, which came into effect on June 9th, saw a small bump in support for the Bhumjaithai Party in National Institute of Development Administration (NIDA) opinion polls conducted in March 2022 to June 2022 which saw the party rise from under 2% support in three months to 2.65% in the latest poll. It is all a far cry from the 10.33% that the party garnered in the 2019 General Election with 5 million votes and comes as the party is hoping to gain seats in the South, formerly a stronghold of the Democrat Party. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that the move may be backfiring. Quote: 72% of the Thai public express concern about the unrestricted use of cannabis for recreational purposes and other concerns as a new law is waited upon In the last opinion poll in late June, 72% of Thai people expressed concerns about the harmful impact of cannabis use and developments since the drug was legalised despite majority support for the commercial development of the drug and its use for medicinal purposes.

Anutin is scrambling for his political life. Collateral damage in the recreational cannabis industry is the least of his worries.

The Thai Examiner article points out that in countries where recreational and medical cannabis has been legalized, the THC content has climbed considerably over time as, once legalized, there are few regulations in place to limit the THC content. For example, the article says THC levels have climbed from 10 to 14% in 2010 to 25-40% in recent years. The studies cited in the Thai Examiner article as the ones which the Thai government is relying upon to formulate policy are recent US and UK studies which warn about potential mental and other health problems from the more potent strains of cannabis available today. I think these studies deserve careful consideration and should not be dismissed out-of-hand simply as outdated "anti-pot" propaganda.

Whatever happened, it's sounding more and more like this isn't the first time the perpetrators have done this. There are just too many things pointing to an above average level of criminal sophistication. Bullets to the head, stripping the bodies to impede possible identification, encasing in cement to reduce detection of the corpses, the coordinated planning and manpower. In a related Thai Rath article, it said that the bullets came from a 9mm Glock which was "modified in a way which reflected a good knowledge of guns." Further evidence of criminal sophistication. The thing is, if it was a love triangle, what are the chances that the jilted husband/boyfriend had that level of criminal sophistication and wherewithal? If it was a drug deal gone bad, does it seem likely that both the man and the woman would be killed? And if it was a high level drug deal gone bad, those relationships tend to be pretty transient, making personal connections between the killer(s) and the victims hard to trace, so why the need to go to such lengths to hide the bodies? So...how about this scenario? What about the possibility that it's a murder-for-hire double cross? She lures him out into the woods under the ruse of looking at land to buy, knowing that someone is laying in wait to cap him. But after he's dead, they find out he's carrying a much larger amount of cash than they initially believed, and decide to cap her too in order to keep all the money for themselves, and get rid of her as a potential witness to boot. If something like that happened, that might make the killers exponentially more difficult to catch. I apologize if anyone's offended by this speculation, just trying to think outside the box.

Sorry if it's not what you want to hear, but it struck me as an excellent summary of where things stand at the moment. I'm not the author, but if I was, I'd be proud of the work. Edit: The reason the article may seem disjointed (no pun intended) is because it's a compilation of recent developments on a fast developing story with many moving pieces.

The Thai Examiner article says that Anutin's party has only seen a less than 1% increase in support (from 2% three months ago to 2.65% currently) since decriminalization was announced, and they are scrambling to back pedal. As I've said before, I think that irrespective of where you stand on decriminalization, the chaotic nature of the roll out has so thoroughly impeached Anutin's administrative skills that it should permanently disqualify him from assuming the duties of prime minister.

The Thai Examiner article is highly informative and I encourage everyone to read it.

Anybody else thinking 'I could buy a whole lot of pizza for that kind of money'?

Patts? Swampy? Now Koh Changy? The use of pet geographic names really makes me roll my eyes. It doesn't make people sound like they're old hands who have been in country for ages. It makes them sound pretentious, disrespectful, and unappreciative of the beauty of the language.

Last week I wrote: "I think people who are arguing "the cat's out of the bag" and that the open sale and usage of cannabis for recreational purposes is here to stay are kidding themselves. A major walk back is in the works." https://aseannow.com/topic/1267118-the-cannabis-debate-continues-but-can-thailand-control-it/?do=findComment&comment=175050682. In hindsight it now appears that last week's Aseannow article with the headline "Anutin: No U-turn on marijuana" gave a misleading account of the government's actual position on recreational cannabis use. https://aseannow.com/topic/1267138-anutin-no-u-turn-on-marijuana-minister-pressing-ahead-with-use-of-drug-in-two-trillion-baht-wellness-tourism/page/2/ Refraining from intoxicants which cloud the mind is one of the five Buddhist Precepts for leading a moral life. It is thus inconceivable that Thailand's Buddhist clergy isn't as equally opposed to the recreational use of cannabis as the leadership of the Islamic Committee. I suspect the only reason why Thailand's Buddhist senior leadership has not already voiced similar opposition is out of a reluctance to wade into political controversy. It only serves to foment religious bigotry to focus on the Islamic Committee's voiced opposition when everyone knows full well that recreational cannabis use is equally interdicted by Buddhist teachings.

Aseannow is probably the most prominent expat forum in Thailand, and there is a likelihood that it is monitored to some extent by the government to gauge the opinions of expats and visitors to the Kingdom. I think there is a perception that proponents of recreational use of cannabis are trying to create the FALSE impression that there is universal support for recreational use of cannabis amongst the expat community, and they are doing this by attacking, belittling, and attempting to silence anyone with reservations about whether recreational use of cannabis in Thailand is advisable. To a certain extent, individuals who have an editorial/news reporting function for Aseannow have been guilty of this as well. It is out of the desire to push back against this perceived campaign that compels many to speak out as persistently as they do on this issue.

Mushroom forager noticed human remains protruding from ground.

I honestly don't understand why speculation about crimes in the news seems to bother some people so much. No one's trying, as you put it, to "solve" or "crack" the case. People are applying whatever knowledge they have about criminal behavior to the clues that are available at the moment. It's a mental exercise. Some people have law enforcement backgrounds, or are true crime buffs, or amateur criminologists and enjoy the 'who dun it?' nature of unsolved crimes. It's not just the pointless nattering you seem to think it is. While Thai police science techniques have increasingly become as sophisticated as those of police in the West, there is still a desire to discuss what police in the West might be thinking or doing in a similar case. Speculation is also driven by the fact that Westerners are sometimes either the perpetrator or the victim in the crime, and there's an interest in understanding what motivated the criminal, or how to avoid becoming a victim of a similar crime. There's also some satisfaction to be had if one's theory about what might have happened turns out to be correct, which does happen from time to time. I hope this will help you and others who make similar gibing comments better appreciate the motivation behind these 'Columbo' type posts.

Woman: estimated age 30-40, height 150-160 centimeters, slender build, long hair Man: estimated age 40-50, height 160-170 centimeters, light color skin, not Asian, curly hair The below Thai language article from the 29th makes it sound like police are leaning towards this being a case of adultery gone bad. Edit: Article also says that police gave a "not less than 2 weeks ago" estimate for when they were killed. source: https://mgronline.com/local/detail/9650000072356

Now you're talking bags of cement with water to mix it with lugged to the burial site? That's even more manpower needed. Starting to sound a lot more premeditated and organized than initially thought. Organized crime? Murder for hire? Starting to think maybe money was motive, not passion. Maybe reason no one has been reported missing locally is because victims weren't local, but still believe somebody connected to the murders knew the local area intimately. Tattoos are very distinctive one of a kind pattern. Confident between them and microchip in breast implant, victim will soon be identified. Motive and likely suspects will quickly emerge soon thereafter.

Sorry about being a little late. Been busy working another case. Article says grave was 1.5 meters deep, but from photo looks much shallower, maybe less than 1 meter deep, at best. Nevertheless, it would have required at least two people to dig such a grave. If grave was 400 meters (1/4 mile) from nearest road, transporting two bodies from road to grave site would also have required at least two people. When you consider the combined labor needed to dig the grave and transport the bodies from the crime scene to the burial site, this has me thinking more like 3-4 people were involved. If the two people were only recently killed, it's too early to conclude that the deceased were not from the area. Some people lead transient lifestyles or do not have extensive social connections, making it entirely possible for their absence to go unnoticed for a considerable amount of time. There are clear clues that that this was probably a crime of passion. Victims were of opposite sex. The victims being naked suggests that they were in bed or undressed at the time of their death. Victims buried facing away from one another suggest the possibility that the killer did not want to accept their romantic relationship, even in death. Even though the victims were fairly quickly discovered, the killer actually went to considerable lengths to hide the bodies (distance from road, depth of grave). This suggests that the killer knew that if the victims were ever found and identified, the killer would immediately become a prime suspect. Finally, as the killer was able to enlist the help of either family members or friends to help dispose of the bodies, this suggests that in the eyes of his accomplices, the murders could be partially justified or rationalized, i.e., committed in a jealous rage triggered by infidelity. The killer knew that digging the grave, especially during the rainy season, would so disturb the surrounding undergrowth that if anyone were to chance upon the burial site, the grave would likely be discovered. They were banking on rapid rainy season undergrowth quickly concealing the grave, and no one finding the grave until then. Knowledge of a remote place such as this 400 meters from a road not likely to be happened upon suggests a fairly intimate knowledge of the local terrain, which tends to further point towards both the victims and the killer being local.

If the dog's tongue is hanging out, it may be a sign you're overdoing the language lessons.

That's not how it's done in Thailand. Some cops in moo ban outpost substations rarely, if ever, take a police report. They'll come to the crime scene, make initial observations and notes, but if a police report needs to be made, it's almost always done at the district (amphoe) station.

It's not about being happy or unhappy, or being a positive person or a negative person. It's about getting robbed and avoiding getting robbed.