frollywolly

David48

We all miss his hilarious, insightful and knowledgeable forum observations and anecdotes from the life in Thailand he loved and lived for so many years. What began as a relationship of crossed swords developed to a frank and personal exchange of close and lasting friendship and we keep in touch to this very day. David has a wonderful new life in Australia, an honourable job driving lorries, and a new bub on the way. An expert in all manner of Thailand customs, Issaan farm life and relationships the man is a tragic loss to this forum.

I'm tempted to post another photo...........but I won't as I don't want to become a middle-aged baby bore.....

Yes, please don't.

You do have a beautiful baby. Like every other baby out there.

I respect that and everyone should have their own thoughts on their capacity or inclination to be a parent. For me, however, it's completely different. Although at nearly 55 I'd pretty much given up on the thought of having children, I couldn't be more delighted in having a son last month. I'm tempted to post another photo...........but I won't as I don't want to become a middle-aged baby bore.....

Go on, do it, the kids' really cute, well worth another photo (or two).

OP, he has written before....we all have a story to tell.

Why does it come across that you want to write everybody his/her story according to your way of thinking ?

On the outset it seems that you are concerned with the best interest for the child. However your ongoing judgements about, and to, fathers who have done it differently really lose momentum. Its arrogant and pushy. I truly hope that, if you have kids yourself, your attitude is different. For their sake.

The idea of posting a topic is to engage in debate. Yes, i have my views, and i have expressed them.

Some others, I do not agree with their view. Normal i think. The best way to get your opinions across, is to,well...is to actually express those ideas. Get it?

We have raised two children. The frollettes are young adults now.

I would never have children again at my age.

And on the note of age-gap which some other members have mentioned.

I think anything up to 10 years is fine, though if the woman is 10 years older there may be some sex drive problems, since men tend to have a higher sex drive by nature.

If the age gap goes over 10 years, then I think 15 years is the absolute maximum, in any case. After that, it starts to seem seriously abnormal and probably dysfunctional, in most cases. There may be a few rare exceptions.

If I were with a woman 20 years younger or more, i would feel a little ashamed in front of my family "back home".

Since this topic is about fathering children, one important thing to consider: how will your child feel in a family where Dad is so much older than Mum? Could it result in bullying at school or in the neighbourhood? Emotional damage? Feeling like he or she belongs to a weird family?

I am sure many men who return to the west , who have a child at 50, 55, 60 are continually mistaken as the grandfather.

I am interested to know if that does have an effect on the child/ren

Perhaps if some posters have first hand experience?

what kind of economics do you follow. do you know that the largest and best growing economy in the world is china. Do you know that china is the most populated country in the world. the second fastest growing is India and the second most populated. Both Canada and Australia are aware that serious impediments to their growth is lack of large populations.

Back to the real issue. No one has any right to comment on other peoples desire or decision to have kids at any age. If you ask what is the right age, well the answer is simple. The biological clock determines that. keep your values to yourself.

Biological clock?

Men can have children up until 80 or 90.

Women can have children up until their early 40s

Men do not have a biological clock, they simply have sperm.

They always have a choice about where it goes.

what I cant understand is I have met several men here over 50, retired here for a good life and enjoy all that Thailand has to offer then their lady gets pregnant and 3/4 years later there all going back to his home land cos its too expensive here for them to educate there children.

WHAT A WAY TO F- - - UP THE REST OF YOUR LIFE

They come for freedom from the constraints of the west. They find themselves content , at peace, happy...for a few years at least.

The common theme is they each have much younger wives.

The wife will have pressured for a child and the consequences of not giving one might have likely meant she went elsewhere.

I suspect this is the situation in most (not all) of the big age difference relationships.

I agree with you. There is nothing that will compare or replace the loss of a father.

Okay. But by making a general statement about having children after a certain age is being a selfish act... It would have been nice to know that with you having such a loss at a young age that you would now have gained the wisdom to understand that it's not about quantity. It's about quality.

Consider yourself fortunate that you had a father in your life for 11 years. Neither you or I know how long we will walk the earth.

My real point is simply this: both you and I do not know the future and how long we have. We do not know all situations of other people's lives. If we want to delve into the lives of other people we should never be so quick to make blanket statements without knowing the facts of their lives. But even if you did have facts of other's lives, you'd be spending Your life's energy and the most valued of all, Your time on other people's personal affairs. To me, that sounds quite boring. Though many will try, no one can walk in your shoes nor mine. Peace to you!

When it comes to children Tony, billions of people are walking in your shoes or have walked in your shoes every day; in the past and into the future.

The fundamentals are very similar, you do realise that?

You mention quality it seems as a justification to yourself. You clearly made a choice at age 58 to bring another child into this world. Yes, that is your choice.

Is it fair on a child? We have heard from several people who have been in the situation, now adults, and they say no. Not a good idea. Not good for the child.

For yourself Tony, only time, and your child can answer the question for you. Not you.

I'm 62, have a 3 year old. Very happy with lots of money. Been married 5 years and my wife is now 26. Much support in our family. My child will be taken care of very well. You don't need to be concerned.

You can never know about the feeling, reasons, or love of life until you can walk in the shoes that carry this joy. Hopefully you can learn something by reading these comments and better understand how important it is to open your mind a little bit more.

I bet she's happy, you've got lots of money.

Your child will be taken very good care of......and so will the family hahahaha.

I lost my Father when I was 11 years old. We were left financially secure and I had support.............but none of that made up for losing my Father. I didn't care about the money, I didn't care about the support...........I just wanted my Father.......nothing else.

Having children after a certain age is just a selfish act, because children want their Fathers as they grow up, not their money.

Thanks for sharing that.

It is a selfish act to want to have a child late in life to make your own life better. No future thought to your child's life.

Seems like the majority of these replies are all "me, me, me". I can... don't judge me...blah, blah, blah, but it's not about you, is it? What about addressing the OP's point about the children. Is it fair on them? As I've mentioned in a previous post, I've heard lots of accounts of bullying at school in such situations; the whole your mum is a BG who married an old foreigner stuff. It's not nice but children can be very mean. And this attitude is adopted from the kids' Thai parents, so for the poster who suggested this is a widely accepted practice in Thailand, I think you'll find that it is no more so than back home; in fact the whispers of prejudice can be far more ignorant here.

The reality is, most people slow down a lot in their 60s. My mum is 68, walks miles every day with her dog and is fit as a fiddle, but she has niggling injuries that are starting to require that she rests more, you know, age-related things like a bad shoulder when she carries heavy stuff, and a bad arm from an injury when she was younger. She can't hold my little one for too long, and come 6.30pm is ready to sit down and relax for the rest of the evening. My Dad of the same age loves kids, but he's the same and just wouldn't have the patience now to have young kids to keep up with.

Kids are amazing and bring so much joy to your life, but at 55/60+ there's no way I can see myself being able to do what I do now; the up-all-nights when they are sick, the potty training, the carrying, the constantly needing to be attentive everywhere you go in case they have an accident, the reading books, tutoring and doing homework, the keeping them entertained on long haul flights...the list goes on.

While it's true that a younger dad could just as easily pop his clogs at any time, the reality is that an old geezer, especially a drinker and or a smoker, is likely to have less energy, less strength and be more susceptible to illness. Statistically you are closer to death and in a more advanced state of decline.

Is this a good circumstance for a child? No, of course not. But I agree it might be a darn sight better than many of the dead beat fathers out there who neglect their kids.

To those mentioning the financial aspect of a retiree being able to provide better, forget money. Sure, it helps to have security, but families grow together; a young family works at it and builds a life of security as they age together. What kids want is love, and a dad who can run and play all day instead of always wanting to put his feet up and have a beer while telling his/her mother to do it instead. They want a dad who is going to be around as long as possible. Having a kid at 60 means you are likely to be gone, or at the very least hardly able to run a few yards by the time your child is 20 - and that's sad.

And what of the kids from previous marriages? They get less inheritance, see less of their father, and their children get less attention from their grandfather. And what of the Thai woman's kids from her previous relationship? Well, sadly I know a few of these situations where those kids are neglected in favour of the newer, more "narak" luuk krungs.

A considered and well expressed reply Kennypowers.

Focusing on just one of the points you raise; as you mention. many posters here have taken the 'me, me me' response. All about how it makes them feel so good, and how they are such wonderful fathers and how they feel younger. No one can tell them what to do! No sir!

How about their child though? How do they feel? Do they look through the eyes of their child and ask?

It seems many men are only looking at this through their own eyes and feelings.

Are you joking me who are you to say how old a man is to have children if a man has children at say 25 years and dies what is the driftings none at all I had 2 lovey girl at the age of 50 and now 60 my girls love me and not care about me age and all my kids will get some thing when I go so age is not important it is love and if you give love you get like back .

The chances of death increase dramatically with older age. That is my point.

Is it fair on the children to leave them fatherless 20 years sooner than could have been avoided?

Are you joking me who are you to say how old a man is to have children if a man has children at say 25 years and dies what is the driftings none at all I had 2 lovey girl at the age of 50 and now 60 my girls love me and not care about me age and all my kids will get some thing when I go so age is not important it is love and if you give love you get like back .

The chances of death increase dramatically with older age. That is my point.

Is it fair on the children to leave them fatherless 20 years sooner than could have been avoided?

you claim that the child will not be provide for by these ageing farangs. what a bunch of hog wash. Do you know that in order to be granted a retirement visa here , a farang has to prove substantial monetary worth. Do you know that in addition to diversified savings, investments, pensions, most farangs also have adequate insurance plans. Do you think that this aged farang kid is worse of financially than all the little kids you see running around at night on the streets and villages without being properly fed or schooled , is better off than the kid of an older farang. Think again.

Are you having me on or having yourself on?

Substantial monetary worth to get a retirement visa in Thailand? In $US how much do you have to show? $15,000? $30,000?

I do not know anyone who would consider that substantial in any way.

This is Thailand...while a elderly man can do that and they would not be the first to do so.

Meantime, many critics are thinking like they would if they live back in the USA or Canada or Europe or any other "too much" politically correct societies where you would be criticized and berated and even ostracized for having a child if you are over the age of 40....certainly 50.

Surrounded by that kind of mentality a person would have to get away from all the loud mouth critics and move to another place......such as ...Thailand.....lol ...where no one really cares about how old you are when you father a child....except..... the overly opinionated and politically correct foreigners that come from the same countries that you left long ago so you could get away from all the politically correct critics....remember...or did you forget??

Unfortunately they are everywhere and invade all societies like a nasty yeast infection of the vagina that wont go away.........lol

Cheers and have yourself a good weekend with your children.

Your outrage over some perceived fantasy threat to your supposed freedoms is odd. Your personal and favorite hobby horse?

You see, you are making it all about YOUR right to do what you want. Bugger the consequences!

I am asking if it is fair on the child?

Is it a responsible thing to do?

I'm 62, have a 3 year old. Very happy with lots of money. Been married 5 years and my wife is now 26. Much support in our family. My child will be taken care of very well. You don't need to be concerned.

You can never know about the feeling, reasons, or love of life until you can walk in the shoes that carry this joy. Hopefully you can learn something by reading these comments and better understand how important it is to open your mind a little bit more.

Oh, my mind is completely open. I have had 2 children of my own and so I know well the joys and despair of parenthood.

62 with a 3 year old! All I can say is 'you poor man!'

Thank you for being honest enough to expose your intellect. When I suggested opening the mind a little bit more I was referring to not being so judgmental. Everyone has their own story to tell. When you're more respectful you can feel good about your deeds. At least that's what I like to think.

errr, old bean...I should not be judgmental, yet you are being judgmental on what I should or shouldn't be and giving me advice on not being judgmental?

You see the irony?

Let me ask you this Sir. Is it fair on your children that you will be 70 when your child is 11? Age 80 when 21?

Simply asking.

This may have been mentioned before, but many Thais think the half-farang half-Thai child is the most beautiful. Many also view their children as we Americans view our 401k accounts; retirement security. So the Thai woman convinces her farang bf/husband to have a kid with her. Or, she just "gets pregnant." The farang goes along with it because even though he may be dead when the kid is 20, the wife will be only 45 or 50. It seems most Thai men leave anyway, so a farang leaving via dying is not a big deal.

Just my 2 baht worth.

What are you saying?

That because a Thai man leaves his children that a green light is given for Western men living in Thailand to not be concerned if they leave their child/ren fatherless?

Having lost both parents when young it's simply not a good idea. Secondly many of the wives don't seem to be particularly financially savvy so any financial protections put in place will not last long. Thirdly why have children and then have them educated in the village school, the education can be a complete mess. Fourthly she could remarry given the age differences and the children could be disenfranchised by the future spouse.There are to many improbables, no one can predict the future..one can't but feel sorry for the children even if they are loved, with good parents.

Thank you. Very good points you make

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/feb/26/children-older-men-mental-illness-fathers-school

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/children-with-older-dads-at-greater-mental-illness-risk/

Sounds like eugenics research to me.

Not credible.

Ridiculous statement

Not one iota like Eugenics

This is a difficult and multifaceted topic...

I see older guys (i.e. 50+) with infant children, I'm not sure if they are the father or the grandfather - in most cases what I do see is a loving connection. However, in some cases I see both older and younger guys parenting their child in a terrible, careless almost non-interested manner... This I think is terrible.

Thus, I would suggest that while I don't necessarily agree that older males should be fathering children (for many of the reasons already discussed on this thread), those who truly want children will be good parents.... I wouldn't wish to take the joys of parenthood away from those to truly appreciate them....

It seems we are really discussing a level of responsibility... I'm currently 40 years old with an infant son, I'm very happy, but I wouldn't want an infant child when I'm 60 years old as it would take too much effort and work, thus I'd try and make decisions I feel are responsible. But, in this example I have no wish to project my opinions on others... Perhaps poor people shouldn't have kids, gays, alcoholics etc etc... where do we draw the line ? If people want children and can take care of their child into adulthood then I believe we have no right to judge.

Thoughtful response

This shouldn't be about the father it should be about the children.

Ask the original OP question another way........how young should kids be when their father passes away.....5.....10...15????

Don't forget the original OP question had the criterion "in Thailand" attached. This could be very different to say the US or the UK circumstances.

Fair chance a few of the oldies on here will have kids left fatherless at an early age.

Sure you might have a bit of cash put away....but I'd give everything I have to have my Dad back even for a short while.

Good point Mudcrab.

It is about the children.

A number of posters have focused on their own feelings. How it changed THEIR life. How it made THEM feel good.

When you reach 50+, Children are not be a vanity accessory to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy.

In my OP, I asked:

Is this fair on the children?

Responsible of the father?

Responsible of the mother?

There are too many children and not enough fathers. It would seem to make more sense to take care of a fatherless child if you have a surplus of love rather than create another mouth to feed in this uncertain world.

Very wise my friend

If you MUST have a child to fulfill your life at an older age, why not adopt or foster a child?

Op fails to consider complexity of being a human. Imposing rules upon people on the basis of age, gender, race etc is simplistic, wrong and those supporting such ideology should never be in position of authority. Hitler said I don't like Jews. Full stop. I'll rid the world of Jews. 70 year old man should not have children. I doubt if the op had the intellectual capacity to comprehend this. Does he? Lol

There is always one ill informed numbskull who has to play the Hitler card as if it has any relevance at all. Please try and stay on topic.

I do agree with one point you make. 70 year old men should not be having children. At 70 it is an outrageously selfish action on their part.

At 64, I have learned to be concerned with my business and let others live their lives as they wish.

You would be content to have more children at age 64?

I'm 62, have a 3 year old. Very happy with lots of money. Been married 5 years and my wife is now 26. Much support in our family. My child will be taken care of very well. You don't need to be concerned.

You can never know about the feeling, reasons, or love of life until you can walk in the shoes that carry this joy. Hopefully you can learn something by reading these comments and better understand how important it is to open your mind a little bit more.

Oh, my mind is completely open. I have had 2 children of my own and so I know well the joys and despair of parenthood.

62 with a 3 year old! All I can say is 'you poor man!'