frollywolly

Some have said they don't know me. Probably because I don't spend my time hanging out at the ThaiVisa Farang Pub. Don't need to when Chiang Mai is full of such great real pubs and wine bars. Let me introduce myself.

When I am on ThaiVisa it's at the Chiang Mai, Health and Visa and sometimes the General Forums. I'm honored that Jingthing would nominate me for TVPOTY to fill what will probably his customary slot as No. 2 spot (I'm resisting the urge to do a high heel joke here, you know, something about big shoes to fill)

You've already see photos of Hubby -- he's the goofball with the plate of food a few pages back. Maybe his dementia will clear enough that he can remember his Thai Visa password and be able to vote for me before the contest is over.

Hubby and I spend our time trying to make Chiang Mai and northern Thailand a better place to live -- whether or not anyone really wants that! A few years ago we adopted a little kitten out of the soi. He was so cute, but ravished with ear mites. We nursed him back to full health and treated him with the care and kindness we show to everyone we know. That's why he's earned the nickname Mr. Bitey from our friends when they take care of him when we go out-of-town.

Kitten.jpgcatwithmachinegun.jpg

Nancy, you are a woman of class.

You were dealt some fire on this thread yet you have maintained your dignity

I guess you meant that as a slam. I know because I'm an immoral monger and you have no idea because you are a fine upstanding Bwana type person. Well, shahib most fine dining establishments in Bangkok have already made the transition. When I got to Thailand in 1968 there were perhaps two restaurants in Bangkok where tipping was the norm now I imagine there are a 100.

If on the rare chance that you weren't trying to imply how much better a person you are than I (reference to family and my experience and so on) sorry for the colonial jargon.

How could you possibly pick any offence out of my 2 previous posts? Have a read of them again and get off your high horse. I deferred to your knowledge and experience on the matter of bars across Thailand. If you can possibly take offence to that, so be it.

I said friends of 20 years. I have been coming to Thailand 30 years and living here for around half of that time if added together.

As for Pattaya. I am not a fan, neither is Mrs Frolly, neither are the Frolettes. So i cannot speak for bars in Pattaya.

You wrote, " I cannot see Thailand being able to support such a system. Maybe in the future. (tips instead of wages))

Most bars in Thailand that employ women as wait staff/for dancing or conversation in every town in Thailand commonly referred to as Karaoke bars or beer bars of go go bars the salary is a very small percent of the employees income. So small as to be pocket change for Som Tom.

I take your experienced word for it and I hope a restaurant in the future is able to introduce it also.

It happened to me a few months ago as a tenant, and I had to pay myself. The part inside the lock broke while I was smoothly turning the key. I can assure you that it was due to normal wear and tear, as the quality of these locks are medicore at best and due to breack rapidly as most everything else. The country I come from I never had to change the lock in over 40 years, but it was worth 200 US $. Here I had to pay 330 baht for the lock and 100 baht for installation, no big deal and certainly not worth wasting time in arguing.

Not worth arguing about at all. Tenant should pay, of course. Next 50/50. After that, pay, find a new tenant.

Could I have my nomination removed please?

I do not wish to be part of this.

We had a restaurant back home where the staff did so well on tips, the owner didn't even pay them a salary.

There were other good waitress' too, always applying to get the next position at this cafe.

The place was packed, service was excellent and the staff were super happy. The place had a nice buzz.

Keep your waitress happy. It pays off I say.

I cannot see Thailand being able to support such a system. Maybe in the future.

Except for like, every bar in Pattaya ! I would imagine salary is a very small negotiable percent. You did say it's been 20 years since you've been to Thailand? It shows.

I said friends of 20 years. I have been coming to Thailand 30 years and living here for around half of that time if added together.

As for Pattaya. I am not a fan, neither is Mrs Frolly, neither are the Frolettes. So i cannot speak for bars in Pattaya.

DON'T TIP, you just ruin the culture for everyone. How stupid is it to encourage people to actually do what they are paid to do by their employer. Think your a bigger man now? How about dropping the 300 Baht into a reputable donation location, that actually helps out someone without a job.

Oz

Don’t tip because I might ruin it for everyone?

We ‘farang’ are not one big club of people all secretly working together for the betterment of ourselves and to keep down the natives. I would certainly not live my life by your ideals or anyone else to keep the status quo as you see it.

I have worked hard for my money, I have plenty of it, and I’ll dispense it as I see fit when and how I like. Drop it in a donation location? why?

I will be happy to double my tip next time, '600 baht, compliments ozsamurai'.

We had a restaurant back home where the staff did so well on tips, the owner didn't even pay them a salary.

There were other good waitress' too, always applying to get the next position at this cafe.

The place was packed, service was excellent and the staff were super happy. The place had a nice buzz.

Keep your waitress happy. It pays off I say.

I cannot see Thailand being able to support such a system. Maybe in the future.

Just as leaving a 45 baht tip on a 3-8 thousand bill can be perfectly okay depending on how much work was involved for the (waiting) staff.

It can be okay to leave that, if as you say, there was little service work involved. The 300 baht I left was commensurate with the service given and my own opinion as to a fair tip based on that.

I enjoy spreading a tiny fraction of my wealth around. It gives the Frollys a warm feeling inside

At least treat the staff with respect

Does that not say it all? Treat staff and people in general with respect. If the service is good or excellent, let them know. Give a compliment, perhaps leave a tip (small, medium, generous). Whatever you as an individual think is the right thing to do.

And as staff IMHO you should never "expect" a tip as in that it's required by default from all customers. Especially not generous 10-20% tips or when the service was a bit lacking. In Thailand you might expect that at a normal restaurant people leave the change (which is a tip). But again, the customer decides.

Being upset or even staining the food due to no or small tips cannot be excused. If your income is that shitty, do a better job or find a better job. Some people may be stuck in low income jobs but even then there is no reason to receive or hand out ill or disgusting behaviour. A smile goes a long way, even if it does not directly get you any food on the table.

Good point. Even the grumpiest of farangs can give a modicum of respect. If you don't like the service then don't leave a tip. Unless the staff were deliberately rude, you can offer a smile at the minimum

TV can be a good learning tool, an opportunity for social interaction, and a good way to hone your sense of humor and writing skills.

Whether you are spending too much time here depends a lot on what you are doing when you are here.

All things in moderation, frollywolly, all things in moderation.

The key is moderation.

We have the ...

DowJones Index

The Big Mac Index

Now, thanks to frollywolly, our very own Mr Wolly Index.

Take a bow sir, and accept the platitudes ...

.

Thank you.

And thank you for acknowledging and accepting the accuracy of the Frolly System.

Frolly ... it's the Mr Wolly Index, accuracy has been proven unreliable.

Nice attempt at misquoting.

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Being a system of my own creation, I choose to name it the Frolly System. Thank you anyway for your suggestion.

Proven unreliable? Most posters here have agreed with the Frolly System of measurement

How would you measure time spent?

I bet your paycheck is much more than someone who works as a waiter/waitress in Thailand. Please don't venture to America, because they will treat you very badly if you don't tip. They rely on tips.

The reason you came to Thailand is because it's cheap. At least treat the staff with respect and give them a decent tip for good service.

Well said. Treat the staff with respect, if you have been treated with respect and afforded good service. If you don't like to monetarily tip then say a 'thankyou for the good service' direct to your wait staff

BTW, I worked in restaurants and you don't want to know what happens to repeat customer's food when they don't tip. It's not pretty.

I have heard this happens but I do not condone such actions.

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I read the first 4 pages and the last page...and have a few comments of course

1. Why do some people argue if the OP had 8k meal or not? Why is he considered crazy. He had a good evening out with friends...good for him. No need to comment on his expenses.

2. I noticed some saying "I never tip, especially if there is a service charge". If its included you will "happily" tip and if its not included you don't tip? Thats basically promoting restaurants to add a service charge. Seems you would be happy to be "forced" to pay 10%, rather than tipping on service received.

3. Then the ones that say "find a better job if minimum wage is not enough". If everybody thinks like that, you wouldn't have anymore restaurants, grocery clerks, trash collectors etc. Wait, let me rephrase that...you would have them, but the price for your food / beverage etc would go up in order to pay above minimum in order for the staff serving you.

4. The restauranteur should pay higher salary, so you don't have to tip? Fine, lets raise the menu prices 10% and use that money to pay the staff a bit more than minimum wage. However, that won't motivate them to give good service.

5. In the US, the server do get a minimum wage it IS law. Each state has a different minimum wage set. California ( when I left there was $8.50 ). Here is what many do not know. The servers are taxed on there sales ----> tips. Lets say a server sold $10,000 in 2 weeks ( payroll in the US is bi-weekly ), it is assumed they received 15% tip ( $1,500 ). From those $1,500 they have to pay taxes and tip out the bartender, Busboy, Hostess and in some instances the kitchen staff and/or event coordinator. The taxes get automatically deducted from their paycheck, which in many cases leaves a server that worked 60-80 hours in those two weeks with a minimal paycheck ( depending how much they sold those 2 weeks ). Is a server doesn't sell anything in those two weeks, they will get their hours worked x $8.50 with no extra deductions besides the usual social security, witholding tax etc

On topic:

it is an interesting question the OP brought up....especially since their are obviously so many different opinions. I think he did good by leaving some extra...and since he is 20+ years friends with the host, I don't think there are bad feelings...more likely just something to converse about next time around.

If service was good like op mentioned, I think 300 is a reasonable tip to leave ( usually staff split the tips at the end of the night between everyone...even the ones working behind the scenes i.e. dishwashers ).

I am a restaurant owner and "struggle" with the tipping here. My waitstaff are stoked if they receive a tip anywhere between 40 and 100 baht and kind of shrug it off if they don't receive a tip or only very little. My struggle is explaining to them what good service consists of. But I have noticed they try really hard. When they do get that "big tip" for the service, they get excited. It really does motivate them to do even better. It is very important for them to know they got tipped for good service and not just because it is custom. I hate it when crappy service is given and a tip expected....and my staff know that.

By the way, it is not easy to find wait staff here, as it seems to be a looked down upon profession in Thailand. And from what I have seen in Thailand, they are treated like "slaves", unfortunately. Many people sadly don't see that customer service can be challenging and unrewarding, especially if not trained for it.

excellent post from someone who obviously has given this all a lot of consideration.

i agree with you that TH does offer a great challenge when it comes to service staff, and good knowledgeable ones are hard to find.

Marvellous post! Well thought out and argued points.

Up to you. I hope you didn't spend 15 minutes on each of these replies.....the forum time stamp indicates you DIDNT

I'm calling u on this BS, Frollmeister

Your system of measurement is flawed by BS.

xoxo neverdie

My dear man, the Frolly System of measurement will differ for some. You decide what works for yourself.

It does seem to me you are focusing too much on the actual aspect of typing and posting ONE individual post.

Please consider all the peripherals such as browsing topics, reading replies, reading messages other members send, looking at the red flags that come up. You will see I outline this in my opening post.

When a decent bottle of wine can cost at least 2,000 baht, why are so many surprised at a bill of 8,000 baht for 4 people. I'm sure at least two bottles would have been drunk, so around 1,000 baht a head for food seems quite cheap if it was a "proper" restaurant.

Correct. If you do not drink wine here a meal is a lot cheaper. The wine was a large part of the final bill

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And the higher the price of the meal, the tip goes up. That doesn't make sense either. I like Thailand where the tip is usually not dependant on the bill.

But like most things these days, regular Joes are paying for the excess of fools with more money than brains, trying to prove they got more sausage than the next guy.

How would regular joes pay more? You dont like it, don't eat there

^^ Farang Restaurant Customer ... the new ATM?

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Not sure where you eat, but this restaurant would be 98+% Thai customers. I can assure you these Thai people tip generously. More generously than I do.

Nearly had a heart attack seeing 8,000. I could make that much money last for several months eating at food stalls.

8000 for a few months? Marvellous frugality .

This thread is not a challenge to who can eat the most economically. Nor is it a contest to who can spend the most.

When we dine with friends for an occasion, between 1000-4000 baht per head (including alcohol) for a top nosh eatery is standard.

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...

do you know how restaurants are run here snd employees treated? did you find a poor server? tips dont go jnto servers pockets here, does not work that way.

its about you tipping because you feel guilty sbout how much you just spent on one meal that equals five months rent to your server. poor natives.

dont sit there with a 300 baht glass of wine again you pompous ***!

I think that most people commenting on this topic are the ones who feel guilt, which is why they keep coming up with 101 reasons not to tip someone for good service. (tips and service charge are not the same).

my 2 decades+ of working in the f & b business in TH has shown me that the service charges rarely make it to the staff (or only a small amount) , but tips left after the fact most often do.

I have also found that no length of discussion will change a person’s mind on this topic. it like climate change denial or evolution Vs. intelligent design, it only becomes an exercise is name calling, slagging and posturing because everyone’s beliefs are set in stone and no amount of debate will change either side's views.

IMO there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to food and dining out, those who really appreciate it and will pay for good food, drink and service, and those who are simply going through the motions of consuming sustenance. Nothing wrong with that, we all have different priorities in life.

Quality post.

If people do not want to tip, then do not tip.

Well, I'm not gonna waste my time on this thread.

There are limits.

Ever for me!

Costas the Geek Greek for Thaivisa Poster of the Year! (reverse psychology attempt, is it working?)

I hope you found some value in using the Frolly System of measurement.

We have the ...

DowJones Index

The Big Mac Index

Now, thanks to frollywolly, our very own Mr Wolly Index.

Take a bow sir, and accept the platitudes ...

.

Thank you.

And thank you for acknowledging and accepting the accuracy of the Frolly System.

Sure, I understand there's much more to than the typing of a few words....for example, one must first read the thread, the. Others comments, then post....but my point was, your assuming David's xx amount of posts are all like this.

I'd guesstimate nearly half of David's work involves a process more simpler than that, for example, word association, hundreds of posts, all 2 seconds long.

I'm done wi reading everything in it's entirety of this forum.....I'm here to educate you biatches to life as neverdie sees it, so I read even less than I use to.

Some of us also do two things at once. For example, yesterday Australia killed India in the cricket.....I endulged in both a bit of TVF and Cricket, amongst other tasks. When I drive up the road with 26 family members balancing in the rear of my pickup I do some of my best posting, the thrill of running things over and going thru red lights really inspires my creative side

Anyway, has anyone ever told you

"You tink too mutt"

Methinks you protest too much! I am also sure other posters can speak for themselves, if they so choose.

I think too much? Never. Mrs Frolly finds my intelligence attractive.

Frolly,

Nice theory you have running but allow me to spoil it with a few thoughts, 'outside the box', so to speak.

What if Dvaid only spends 1 minute per post. The guy plays in word association, takes less than 5 seconds to send a post. Then there's all the other meaningless short sharp replies he sends, which probably account for 40% of his work here (as opposed to 90% of my stuff).

I seriously doubt David can even sit for 15 minutes straight without getting distracted and guesstimate that only 5% of his efforts here would account for that amount of time.

So, with all that in mind, I'm calling you on this one.

Now this has take me 2 minutes to type out and send which is about 5x longer than what I normally spend.

TVF is a great way to get up to date with certain news, research stuff and have a bit of a laugh.

Furthermore, I'm toying this in the wife's phone whilst waiting in the car, she's run into the shops to grab a coup,e of things.

I can walk and chew gum at the same time !

1 minute a post? I dont think so. But each poster can speak for themselves I am sure neverdie.

As I mention in my opening post, each post is not simply the time it takes to type each letter and word, it is all the business that surrounds the post itself. The post is representative of 15 minutes spent here on Thaivisa.

If someone wants to spend almost a year of their life making posts here on Thaivisa then that is their choice to make. They are fortunate to have a supportive family and no obligations to be ableto have so much time on their hands.

You can choose who you associate with in life. Both your GF and YOU can make that choice.