Robespiere

There will never be democracy in Thailand until the rich and poor are treated equal by the law. In other words the rich will always get their way by buying their way. Until this changes democracy wont happen.

Democracy is the agent of change.

It is why the elites are fighting so hard against it.

Good will triumph over evil, democracy will be re-established and eventually there will be equality.

A time of great change is coming.....

Christ! Weasel words much? How about, here we go again 'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it' as evidenced by the insane, now, NINETEEN coups here.

BTW Nelson Mandela should absolutely NOT be quoted/associated with the circus that is Thailand

So how to end the madness?

Carry on with tit for tat forever more?

Or draw a line in the sand, let bygones be bygones, pass an amnesty bill and get on with growing up as a modern, free, open, democratic and equal society.

Can the Thais not "learn from Mandela" to prevent being "doomed to repeating" their erroneous ways?

The more Thais that follow the examples set by the likes of Mandela and Gandhi, the better off the nation will be.

The madness wouldn't exist if democracy had been allowed to develop here instead of the army constantly waiting in the wings with their guns to put down any moves towards it. Our Western democracies were fought for, and unpalatable as that thought is, the fact remains democracy should have been allowed to have been fought for here. No pain no gain.

The particular traits of character possessed by Mandela and Gandhi will never be found in anyone here. Their culture doesn't allow for such development.

You underestimate the Thai underclasses.

They are good people saddled with a horrid elite.

Democracy will wash away the filth and Thailand will eventually produce its very own Jokowi.

New Thai prime minister chosen - CSMonitor.com

His coalition was bolted together under military pressure that induced pro-Thaksin lawmakers to cross the floor, but is beset by competing agendas and turf wars.

Wonder how many of the Thais will support the NCPO after the Japanese investors pulls out of Thailand as they are now threatening with? (as mention today in the other big news paper that we are not allowed to link to from here)

Maybe the Japanese are still seething with the complete negligence of PTP during the flooding, and even after care of it. They do not muck about when it comes to big YEN.

Click on the website and read the article.

It is very explicit what is causing the angst.

It is also clear who the Japanese are wary of as he also refers back to 2007 when another coup government began making the same noises about foreign ownership.

The article also seems to imply the Japanese were told last time that that coup would be the last one so their investments are safe.

If the yellows scare away Thailand's biggest investor, the country will be stuffed.

These anti-democrat Yellows are destroying this nation on a much grander scale than one can imagine.

Martial law---where, and how is it affecting those who are going about their everyday lives, It is in place to guard against this disruptive 10-20%

Your second sentence is way OTT, even down to a joke. If you are of a terrorist nature/o crazily disruptive Sure question them for a week.

Get used to it----settle down don't get your knickers in a twist it's only the Thai peoples army a collection of Thai people.---who did not want anymore control by the Shins.

Thailand: Grim outlook for human rights after a month of ...

There appears to be no end in sight to violations of a range of human rights months after martial law was declared in Thailand, Amnesty International warned today.

Since the military declared martial law on 20 May 2014, the rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly have been harshly restricted and extended powers of detention have resulted in some 511 individuals including political activists being arbitrarily detained, though most were held for a few days.

“Sacrificing human rights for political expediency is never a price worth paying – Thailand’s National Council for Peace and Order must ensure that the rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly are protected. They must stop arbitrary detentions and prosecutions of peaceful critics,” said Richard Bennett, Asia-Pacific Director at Amnesty International.

Hey please do not BS me with only one side of it---Human rights have hounded the Thai government for donkey's years------As for the Thaksin drug slaughter of near 3,000 and no drug barons killed only small traders, selling buying on the streets. This was Thaksins way to quieten the international media. Amazing you slag off this 5 months of PM.

You state,

Martial law---where, and how is it affecting those who are going about their everyday lives,

I answer with an article describing exactly how martial law is affecting people going about their everyday lives.

You respond with.....

Drug war nonsense.

You win, I concede based on the following reasoning,

Never argue with fools, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

In Robespierre and other like-minded members' 'prosa' (it's Sunday, I'm in a good mood, so let me call it like that), I am still reading: 'coup' here, 'coup' there... May I be allowed to point out to these stakhanovist repetitive workers, that, possibly, unbiased, un-manipulated, History might decide to describe the events in a quite different way.

The most recent 'coup d'état' was perpetrated at night, about 3am, by PTP's MPs and 'affiliated' Senators (the PM was 'providentially' absent for the vote). Find out what a 'coup d'état' is, and, when you're honest, you won't be able to disagree this is really what that was. And, that makes of May 22nd a 'counter coup' then... Will you adapt to the reality of facts?

And while we are at definitions, the 2010 'reds'' 'insurgency', might also be called an attempted 'putsch' by Thaksin & Co. against the Government...

IMO, calling events by their true name puts those events into a more objective perspective, wouldn't you say, Robby?

Coup d'état: a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.

Putsch: a violent attempt to overthrow a government; a coup.

Using the above definitions, you couldn't be more wrong.

1. At 3am, the PTP were the government so they hardly committed a coup d'etat against themselves.

​2. In 2010 the Reds demanded elections, not to overthrow the unelected government of the day

IMO, not understanding the definitions of the words one uses is quite foolish.

It was a legal government because Newin his party just shifted partners. It was a coalition it was 100% legal and both Newin his party as the Democrats had won their position by votes. This is legal all over the world. Coalitions can be formed there is no need to have the party with the most votes there.

Then the red rabble came to the streets and violently tried to overthrow a legal elected government.

Not so.

What majority?

It's getting close to two decades since your side could claim even a rigged majority.

The truth is there will be no elections until a system can be devised were 20% of the voters can win over the remaining 80%.

Look what you fail to notice is, if the majority were against the PM they would revolt.---reality now--not 2 decades, the 10-20 % of hardcore that is left the Thais will not attempt anything unless they have the balance in their favour.

Martial law is in place!

The people cannot express their wishes without the threat of ending up in some silly re-education centre or even jail for a year.

Let's see what happens when martial law is revoked hey, if they dare.

Until then ....

What majority?!

Martial law---where, and how is it affecting those who are going about their everyday lives, It is in place to guard against this disruptive 10-20%

Your second sentence is way OTT, even down to a joke. If you are of a terrorist nature/o crazily disruptive Sure question them for a week.

Get used to it----settle down don't get your knickers in a twist it's only the Thai peoples army a collection of Thai people.---who did not want anymore control by the Shins.

Thailand: Grim outlook for human rights after a month of ...

There appears to be no end in sight to violations of a range of human rights months after martial law was declared in Thailand, Amnesty International warned today.

Since the military declared martial law on 20 May 2014, the rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly have been harshly restricted and extended powers of detention have resulted in some 511 individuals including political activists being arbitrarily detained, though most were held for a few days.

“Sacrificing human rights for political expediency is never a price worth paying – Thailand’s National Council for Peace and Order must ensure that the rights to freedom of expression and peaceful assembly are protected. They must stop arbitrary detentions and prosecutions of peaceful critics,” said Richard Bennett, Asia-Pacific Director at Amnesty International.

I'm 100% in favour of the dirty politicians getting what they deserve. They took this country on the road to bankruptcy and civil war and they have never shown any remorse for a single thing they did. If a few examples are made, it might make them think twice about it in the future.

Start with charges of 'abuse of power' for the 310 who voted for the amnesty disgrace. Put every single one of them in prison for 5 years.

Can you prove your claim of bankruptcy? Thailand had respectable year to year gdp growth from 2010 to 2013, and its debt to gdp ratio is much better than most first world countries. Even the rice subsidy only represented 7% of government spending. How does this support a claim of near bankruptcy?

I'm not a specialist, but, possibly, maybe, because the Trillion Baht this minimised adventure might well have cost, were not included in the State's expenditures budget, 'expected'(?!) to be 'self-supporting' as it was, or even to generate profits, according to Dr. Thaksin's 'brilliant' (NOT for Thailand, that's for sure) theory of 'Thaksinomics', possibly, maybe?

And not to mention the 2 to 3 Trillion extra the PTP 'government' wanted to levy, outside of the budget again, for two generations of Thais to finance capital and interests of, ...to spend as it pleased them, without cheks and balances, so-called for 'infrasture', but in fact to finance their ruinous rice pledging scheme till the expected end of their tenure, and they did go on with their attempts, even as 'caretakers', trying to coerce the EC to let it go through, did you forget about this, too?

Most First World countries are drowning in their accumulated debts, is that the right path for Thailand to follow in your opinion, or would the example of 'recent' emerging economies having as-good-as no long term debts, or none at all, not be a better one to aspire to? Isn't it that what should in essence really matter?

So, technically speaking, you are possibly right, that Thailand would not have become 'bankrupt' from it all, I don't know, I'm not a specialist, remember, but I would like to see international financial experts with credentials express a favourable opinion about what the so-called Yingluck 'government' has achieved and was planning to do further...

International financial experts with credentials don't waste their time with such nonsense, they leave it to the yellow peanuts on TVF.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

From Mr Mandela:

"Great anger and violence can never build a nation. We are striving to proceed in a manner and towards a result, which will ensure that all our people, both black and white, emerge as victors.” (Speech to European Parliament, 1990)

“Without democracy there cannot be peace.” (South Africa, May 9, 1992)

And hasn't that worked out well for South Africa?

I don't think that there are too many South Africans desperate for a return to apartheid.

The ones that are, if they were Thai, would be diehard, fanatical Yellows.

In Robespierre and other like-minded members' 'prosa' (it's Sunday, I'm in a good mood, so let me call it like that), I am still reading: 'coup' here, 'coup' there... May I be allowed to point out to these stakhanovist repetitive workers, that, possibly, unbiased, un-manipulated, History might decide to describe the events in a quite different way.

The most recent 'coup d'état' was perpetrated at night, about 3am, by PTP's MPs and 'affiliated' Senators (the PM was 'providentially' absent for the vote). Find out what a 'coup d'état' is, and, when you're honest, you won't be able to disagree this is really what that was. And, that makes of May 22nd a 'counter coup' then... Will you adapt to the reality of facts?

And while we are at definitions, the 2010 'reds'' 'insurgency', might also be called an attempted 'putsch' by Thaksin & Co. against the Government...

IMO, calling events by their true name puts those events into a more objective perspective, wouldn't you say, Robby?

Coup d'état: a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.

Putsch: a violent attempt to overthrow a government; a coup.

Using the above definitions, you couldn't be more wrong.

1. At 3am, the PTP were the government so they hardly committed a coup d'etat against themselves.

​2. In 2010 the Reds demanded elections, not the overthrow the unelected government of the day

IMO, not understanding the definitions of the words one uses is quite foolish.

No doubt Robespiere (the poster formerly known as,,,,,,,,,,,,) will be able to correct all of those points, case by case, on both your posts.

We await his response with interest.

Oh come now, in the interests of honest disclosure, and to support the fact that in future your opinions may be accepted at face value, don't be so coy......name the previous incarnation....otherwise it would appear you tilt at windmills.....perhaps a rename for yourself is in order...may I suggest Don.

What's the question?

BTW - Sancho Panza has a better ring to it.

I'm not Thai, so I cannot fathom all the meanders of Thainess, but, IMHO, true 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved in the way the Thaksin/Shins/PTP/UDD partisans want to have it. To me, it is as if(?) they would want to abuse the principles of reconciliation to become in the end the general amnesty they could not become while having used up every, any, even the most crooked, means they could think of at the time. To me their plea sounds as honest as when they pretend to be wanting 'free and fair' elections, NOT then...

True 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved by ignoring, forgetting, shoving-under-the-carpet, any act which anyone could consider criminal, unconstitutional, illegal, corrupt or adverse, made by any party, organisation, group, clan, family or individual(s), may they be/have been 'coloured' yellow, blue, white, red, black ...brown, green, or not, living in Thailand or staying abroad! The painfull list of all those acts must be patiently made up, with no exceptions allowed, and everyone suspected must be, very clearly, able and willing to take up its responsibility, and be brave, or just consequent, enough to accept the possibly dire consequences. And the 'general public' must be informed about it, all, long and wide, into details, no shady corner left unexposed.

It is then, and then only, that some, minor, elements can be, publicly, put on a table of negotiations, for a possible 'compensation of accounts', with all the parties' agreement, to allow a general compromise, including mutual forgiveness, with the aim to enable the Kingdom of Thailand to make its first(!) true steps towards becoming(!) a true Democracy!

Mind you, an, essential, condition, si nequa non, is to be fullfilled though, and it will come hard to all 'parties' to accept it, it is that Justice must be served, not only let to but encouraged to, about all and anything being into its consideration, and, also, all and everything that should be or become of its concern! There is no 'State' without 'Law', and there is no 'Democracy' without 'Justice', for all...

And to the ones allowing themselves to (mis-?)use South Africa as an example, Nelson Mandela included: don't attempt to bend History to fit your twisted theories, what I write hereabove is the way the Great Man wanted 'Reconciliation' to happen, and largely how it did, in his country, Justice too as a matter of fact, so, please, leave the RSA out of your plea for injustice, leave Nelson Mandela out of it, it's bad enough Thaksin dared to compare himself to him (as a Statesman even Mandela had to compromise, and let himself be caught on a picture with a 'Great Democrat' (NOT!) like Robert Mugabe, or a Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai PM, in fact, are both last not very good friends? But that's a bit off topic...)!

The small number of people that have "owned" Thailand are losing their grip.

It is inevitable that their days are numbered.

How best to make the transition?

Tit for Tat?

When the Reds are in power, after winning elections, they get on with the job of running the country and have no time for vengeance.

When the Yellows are in power, after military and judicial coups, they seek out their foes with a vengeance and have no time to administer the country.

The amnesty bill was an attempt to short-circuit this merry-go-round and bring an end to hostilities.

That the Yellows will lose this war can be seen by all bar the Yellows themselves.

When the Yellows accept the reality of their defeat, there will be an amnesty for all involved and Thailand will be able to move forward to the long term benefit of all her citizens.

As we look back on this period it will be seen for what it is, an unnecessary, costly and deadly waste of time very similar to the last weeks and months of the Japanese effort in WW2.

Let us all hope the Reds don't need to resort to the nuclear option, as the US did with Japan, to make the Yellows finally accept the reality of their defeat.

No the amnesty bill without Thaksin would be ok.. but that one with Taksin included ingited the troubles and caused this coup. Even the red leaders agree the amnesty was a mistake. He was included at the last minute late at night. While the amnesty without Thaksin was agreed upon by others

No thanks to Thaksin his arrogance some poor redshirts are still in jail. He only cares about himself, without him there could be peace.

Without Thaksin the Yellows would just create another demon to justify their continued raping and pillaging of the country at the peoples expense.

What majority?

It's getting close to two decades since your side could claim even a rigged majority.

The truth is there will be no elections until a system can be devised were 20% of the voters can win over the remaining 80%.

Look what you fail to notice is, if the majority were against the PM they would revolt.---reality now--not 2 decades, the 10-20 % of hardcore that is left the Thais will not attempt anything unless they have the balance in their favour.

Martial law is in place!

The people cannot express their wishes without the threat of ending up in some silly re-education centre or even jail for a year.

Let's see what happens when martial law is revoked hey, if they dare.

Until then ....

What majority?!

I'm not Thai, so I cannot fathom all the meanders of Thainess, but, IMHO, true 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved in the way the Thaksin/Shins/PTP/UDD partisans want to have it. To me, it is as if(?) they would want to abuse the principles of reconciliation to become in the end the general amnesty they could not become while having used up every, any, even the most crooked, means they could think of at the time. To me their plea sounds as honest as when they pretend to be wanting 'free and fair' elections, NOT then...

True 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved by ignoring, forgetting, shoving-under-the-carpet, any act which anyone could consider criminal, unconstitutional, illegal, corrupt or adverse, made by any party, organisation, group, clan, family or individual(s), may they be/have been 'coloured' yellow, blue, white, red, black ...brown, green, or not, living in Thailand or staying abroad! The painfull list of all those acts must be patiently made up, with no exceptions allowed, and everyone suspected must be, very clearly, able and willing to take up its responsibility, and be brave, or just consequent, enough to accept the possibly dire consequences. And the 'general public' must be informed about it, all, long and wide, into details, no shady corner left unexposed.

It is then, and then only, that some, minor, elements can be, publicly, put on a table of negotiations, for a possible 'compensation of accounts', with all the parties' agreement, to allow a general compromise, including mutual forgiveness, with the aim to enable the Kingdom of Thailand to make its first(!) true steps towards becoming(!) a true Democracy!

Mind you, an, essential, condition, si nequa non, is to be fullfilled though, and it will come hard to all 'parties' to accept it, it is that Justice must be served, not only let to but encouraged to, about all and anything being into its consideration, and, also, all and everything that should be or become of its concern! There is no 'State' without 'Law', and there is no 'Democracy' without 'Justice', for all...

And to the ones allowing themselves to (mis-?)use South Africa as an example, Nelson Mandela included: don't attempt to bend History to fit your twisted theories, what I write hereabove is the way the Great Man wanted 'Reconciliation' to happen, and largely how it did, in his country, Justice too as a matter of fact, so, please, leave the RSA out of your plea for injustice, leave Nelson Mandela out of it, it's bad enough Thaksin dared to compare himself to him (as a Statesman even Mandela had to compromise, and let himself be caught on a picture with a 'Great Democrat' (NOT!) like Robert Mugabe, or a Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai PM, in fact, are both last not very good friends? But that's a bit off topic...)!

The small number of people that have "owned" Thailand are losing their grip.

It is inevitable that their days are numbered.

How best to make the transition?

Tit for Tat?

When the Reds are in power, after winning elections, they get on with the job of running the country and have no time for vengeance.

When the Yellows are in power, after military and judicial coups, they seek out their foes with a vengeance and have no time to administer the country.

The amnesty bill was an attempt to short-circuit this merry-go-round and bring an end to hostilities.

That the Yellows will lose this war can be seen by all bar the Yellows themselves.

When the Yellows accept the reality of their defeat, there will be an amnesty for all involved and Thailand will be able to move forward to the long term benefit of all her citizens.

As we look back on this period it will be seen for what it is, an unnecessary, costly and deadly waste of time very similar to the last weeks and months of the Japanese effort in WW2.

Let us all hope the Reds don't need to resort to the nuclear option, as the US did with Japan, to make the Yellows finally accept the reality of their defeat.

On the face of it you appear to be the perfect voter, a true cynic. No expectations of honesty, accountability, performance or value for money. At what point would you complain about the loss of tax payer funds, when it's all gone, 50% gone or never, just write it off as "that's what governments do", unbelievable. I expect your personal slogan would be " The government can piss away all the money there is and leave the treasury bare. I pledge to never complain".

Apparently ramrod, being democratically elected gives any government a license to squander.

Being a democratically elected government gives that government the right to implement the policies it took to the election.

The size of the mandate given will determine the amount of compromise that government will have to make to get its policies through parliament.

The root cause here is that the Democrats are so woeful, they lose by so much and don't even bother trying to improve because they just rely on boycotting elections and military of judicial coups to get into power.

How many elections must Abhisit lose before they realise he's not the man to take the Democrats forward?

You want a government with more accountability, tell the Democrats to lift their game, stop cheating, take the role of parliamentary opposition seriously and develop a decent set of policies that, should the PTP falter or "piss away all the money", the public will see as a viable alternative and so elect the Democrats.

Coup after coup does nothing other than retard Thailand's political development.

They need to clarify how governments carry out their business, such as off budget financing limits and use of super majority to change the constitution.

But, there is a reason why the constitution was written the way it is. Its because it suits both sides to have it written that way.

The 2007 constitution was written by one side to benefit one side, much the same way the 2015 constitution will be written by one side to benefit one side.

The problem these usurpers have is that they are so on the nose with the voting public that any constitution that would enable them to remain in power would be such a gerrymandered steaming pile that it could not pass the smell test of even the simplest most backward red buffalo peasant you Yellows so deride.

Ahh, my favorite DEM supporter whose own words betray him. If your harsh critical statements regarding the DEMS are a litmus test of your support for them then you must be the biggest Junta supporter around.

"state the 6 significant things that the Junta have done in 5 months"

1/ Stopped red shirt terrorist attacks without firing a single bullet. Of course you will have excuses for this.

2/ Confiscating illegal weapons in 2 months that equated to 10% of all weapons finds in 14 years. (more than enough to fit in the back of a truck heay Haggis!) Of course you will have excuses for this.

3/ Paid the majority of the rice farmers. Of course you will have excuses for this.

4/ Stood up for the tax payer and the majority by properly investigating the rice scheme and actually finding irregularities in it instead of excuses. Of course you will have excuses for this.

5/ Brought Thailand back to the #1 rice exporter. Of course you will have excuses for this.

6/ Cleared the beaches of "tourist hasslers" Of course you will have excuses for this.

7/ Cleaned up the airport taxi system of which I am personally thankful. Of course you will have excuses for this.

8/ Stopped the red shirt terrorist attacks without firing a single bullet. That one was stated twice due to its importance because your or my children could have been the next victims.

I can only imagine the list of 6 significant things the PTP did in 3 years! Might start with "bringing the country to the brink of civil war".

Of course one can say we have gone from one unelected leader in thaksin to another in Prayut. Both having supported coups in there time (thaksin when it was financially beneficial and prayut when it was morally beneficial) , but with one very important difference between the two.

One is a convicted criminal fugitive.

And this is why the people support the current popular government.

1. The Yellows just called of their armed mob that was committing all the attacks

2. The Yellows just handed their weapons back to the people who handed them out in the first place.

3. The Yellows just stopped blocking (through the EC and rioting in front of banks) the payments being made.

4. The Yellows have still to present any plausible evidence of wide scale corruption and have yet to lay any significant charges against anyone.

5. The Yellows did nothing to return Thailand to it's number 1 ranking, the reason Thailand is back at number 1 is because its current prices are so low compared to India and Vietnam (which is really Yinglucks' unintended doing)

6. This is, to date the single achievement of the coup. Well done, congratulations to all involved. Nobel prizes for both peace and economics are a shoe in.

7. The Yellows achieved nothing here, system was fine as it was - go down a level, queue, get your ticket, pay 50 baht, meter on - off home.

8. See point 1 (your kids have nothing to fear the popcorn gunman is off the streets)

If the people supported the current government there would be an election.

Until there is an election, you can take it as fact that the Junta knows they lack support; regardless of how many 93.3% polls are released

How on earth did the Greek enter the Kingdom without a passport???

The border with Lao is more liquid than ice at 25 degrees Celsius.

In other words it ain't hard to come into Thailand without a passport.

Ice goes through a phase change (solid to liquid) at 0 degrees.

There is no such thing as ice at 25 degrees!

All ice, after 0 degrees, is simply called water.

Yes, it's almost like saying to someone, "you are the dumbest smart person I've ever met."

In your post, the word dumbest precedes smart the same way Djjamie's post precedes mine.

Coincidence or something more??

These polls here are as valid as those polls that ran during the YL administration. Any poll that runs can be made to show what the people paying for the poll wants.

I doubt the previous government did it any different.

The previous government did it very differently on 6 consecutive occasions.

The polls were called elections and they won them all handily.

Well robespiere I guess this is like when yingluck, against all data produced by her own government which said food pieces / daily stapes etc were rising strongly the lady said publically, 'prices have not gone up, it's all in your mind'.

?

These were pre written by her brother, he had no idea he was half a world away. When did Yingluck ever go out to the local market shopping ha ha 555.

Geez, you guys struggle so hard with actual events, facts and, well, basically reality.

The people that should be punished are the government officials that were required to monitor the rice deposits. Along with the people that profited illegally from the scheme.

The above headlines and the statistics from "community leaders" have no real value in opinion as they are harvested from a biases group.

The thing I don’t get is why is there this camouflage to promote hatred? Why not prosecute?

To just say it was the politicians is a scandal? The fact of the matter is that there were a number of people involved and these are the real culprits.

The problem is, that some of those culprits are proudly wearing their yellow shirt and are classified as "the good people"!!

Of course.. yellow are the good people the winner, they out thought and outmaneuvered the criminal from Dubai. However those that were involved should should be punished.

No, the Yellows just have the guns and a facade to hide behind.

Those with the guns will always be against the people in this land, but the facade is about to experience a seismic change.

You gotta pay more attention to the long game robblok.

Vive la Shinawatra.

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How do they get away with this nonsense! no one (outside of Bangkok) believes it so why does the junta keep producing these bogus surveys?

A fair few on here believe it absolutely. "Against stupidity the gods themselves fail to contend."

Well robespiere I guess this is like when yingluck, against all data produced by her own government which said food pieces / daily stapes etc were rising strongly the lady said publically, 'prices have not gone up, it's all in your mind'.

?