Robespiere

Manufacturing your own facts is fun!

You should try it too!

» 18.3% think You're a Great Guy/Gal.

» 21.4% Think You're a Super Great Guy/Gal.

» 60.3% Think You're the Greatest.

» 0% of Respondents were able to find any fault at all with you.

This is not a real Thai survey.... your results only go to one decimal place and they actually add up to an even 100%.

Why is Thaksin in exile? I think your on a looser mate, over and out.

Thaksin ran away because he is a convicted criminal ... convicted while HIS proxy party was in power.

Thaksin's conviction is an absolute joke, just like the vote buying claims and the excessive corruption claims.

Thaksin paid 72 million baht above the value of the land in an open auction, the seller (the juntas current finance minister) did not view itself as being damaged by the transaction and legal amendments had to be made for there even to be a charge to lay against Thaksin.

What was he alleged to have done wrong.....Technical problems - how pathetic!

Pridiyathorn Devakula defended the FIDF transaction, saying that it was transparent. Chanchai Boonritchaisri, a senior director of the central bank's Legal and Litigation Department, also claimed that the FIDF did not view itself as the damaged party, as the land was sold to the Shinawatras at a price higher than its then appraised value (about 700 million baht). The FIDF originally purchased the land from the bankrupt Erawan Trust in 1995 for 2.14 billion; Erawan Trust had seized the land from a defunct borrower for only 103 million baht.

Jaruvan countered by complaining to the public about how some state agencies failed to co-operate with the AEC. She also accused claimed that Pridiyathorn violated the law by sitting on the Board of Directors of more than three state enterprises. Pridiyathorn later resigned from the junta-appointed government. The FIDF eventually filed charges against Thaksin and his wife, noting that "damage that occurred was not necessarily due to the price received during the auction, but rather technical problems." Jaruvan then sought legal amendments that allowed charges to be filed against public officials by parties who had not been damaged.

How about the real crime here, a government agency paid 2.14 billion baht for a piece of land the Erawan Trust (owned by ex-Prime Minister, Major General Chatichai Choonhavan) acquired for just 103 million baht.

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of elections.

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of free speech.

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of free assembly.

It's almost as if he's not actually that popular at all and must use brute force and fear to cling to power.

But just a touch more popular than you don't you think

Even if my popularity was zero, I'd be in front of the General if one were to subtract those with a negative view (probably around 60%) from those with a positive view (probably around 20%).

My 0% would easily beats his -40%

(BTW: Thaksin peak popularity, gained in the 2005 election, was 60% whilst the Democrats bottomed out at 20%, I personally think this is the true breakdown of Thai political support and it is why there'll not be elections until the people rise up and take their rights back themselves)

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of elections.

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of free speech.

The most popular PM in 10 years is terrified of free assembly.

It's almost as if he's not actually that popular at all and must use brute force and fear to cling to power.

Seems your "belief" gene is kicking in again!

Facts state otherwise.

Facts state otherwise?

1. Elections have been cancelled indefinitely.

2. The public and the media have been censored, LM case are on the rise and there is a state of martial law in place.

3. Political gatherings of more than 5 people have been banned.

Most popular PM in the last 10 years indeed.

I see the anti everything supporters of PT are following the party line and we all know who dictates that.

I have faith that the majority of Thai people are not as stupid as to think that be refusing to take part in helping the country to move on with reforms they will do any good.

The only thing the tiny little minds can think of is that any reforms might exclude their hero.

Well I got news for you lot he has been excluded under the previous 2 constitutions which stated that anyone with a criminal conviction can not stand for parliament or the senate and this will for sure be strengthened to make sure there is no way round it, for anyone.

But what about all the other reforms, don't you think the education system needs reforming, the justice system, the police ?

You lot whinge about these things often enough but you dont seem to think anyone should have input in trying to solve the problems.

You all post the same crap over and over again, sitting on the sidelines complaining. Try reading the editorials and comment in the papers and you will see that there is constant criticism and nobody is being arrested for it

We all know who has taken over and what is going on, only some of us can see that whining about it is only going to slow the process of getting the country back to some sort of normality. But then that's probably the idea so then you will have more to complain about.

You don't have faith in the majority of Thais!

To state that you do is an out and out lie.

Why must the reforms that the country needs be implemented outside of a democratic system if you trust the majority of Thais?

You only give lip service, saying you have faith in the majority of Thais when their voices are censored and they have no power.

You don't trust them to have a say in how their own country is run!

Should there be a referendum to see if the majority of Thais, who you have so much faith in, actually agree with whatever trumped up bastardised constitution the Junta offers up?

If the Junta denies the people a referendum, will you support that action the way you now support the anti-democratic coup?

Do you believe that a constitution that doesn't win the backing of a majority of Thais in a referendum hold any legitimacy?

The simple fact is, you are on the side of the minority of Thais that are trampling on the rights of the majority of Thais and only a mind boggling level of extreme self delusion, denial of facts and ignorance allows you to think otherwise.

Anyonen suggest an election?

Yes the general has not only suggested it but promised it.

Only he and most thinking people want to see an election that is free and fair where everyone can vote for their choice without intimidation, harassment or bribery, with checks in place so a pack of crooks can not get into power through criminal means and run the country for their own benefit.

Interesting denial of facts.

Free and fair elections are exactly what the junta are opposed to because their side consistently loses.

INTERVIEW

Reforms 'could create another monopoly of power'

There're still a good number of people who think poor and less educated Thais are either foolish or corrupted as they sell votes or are manipulated by politicians, thus the election is always fraudulent.

These people haven't managed to overcome their illusion that vote-buying is the decisive factor in elections. A number of academic studies have revealed that vote- buying is no longer the decisive factor in determining election outcome. No academic is denying that it still exists though.

What we discover is that local level elections tend to be most involved with vote-buying as voters have no other external reason to differentiate between candidates. At national elections, vote-buying has reduced drastically, however, because people have reasons to make deliberate decisions.

I do agree with your description of the Junta though....get into power through criminal means and run the country for their own benefit.

The sooner there's an election and this pantomime pajama parliament of parasitic peckerhead politicians is ditched, the better!

Elections again, the be and end all to solve Thailands woes.

No, they're the starting point to the end of all Thailand's woes.

Look at Indonesia - no military rulers and no coups since 1998, democracy is finally taking hold there as evinced by the recent election of Jokowi.

You've got to start at the start in order to get to the end.

If you won't even start, then you will never finish.

If the TVF yellow peanut brigade want their 15 principles of democracy to ever eventuate here, they should be advocating for immediate elections so that the journey towards equality and freedom can begin ASAP.

Yada, yada, yada

Just going through the motions to delay elections as long as possible.

October 2015 is when things are going to start getting real interesting.

By then the Generals will have destroyed the national budget, there'll be no more money to throw around to subdue the masses and the promised election won't materialise.

The people will have had enough of all the happiness crap getting rammed down their throats and will start demanding change.

Tick, tock, tick, tock....

Section 6 states that the NLA shall act as the House of Representatives, the Senate and the National Assembly.

That's it lads. Keep the pressure up. Don't let these worms wriggle through loopholes that are not there.

Before someone tries to 'remind' me that there is no constitution anymore so there can't ba a crime against it. At the time of the crime, there WAS a constitution that they committed crimes against. That is enough.

If I murder someone, and the body is cremated, it is 'no more' so my crime vanishes? Or I burgle a building and go to prison, later the building is demolished... I am set free?

I have heard some lame excuses in this forum, but the 'no charter so no crime' excuse is by far the lamest.

So don't bother.

Your analogies are ridiculously inapt.

Report yourself.

If the love of money is the root of all evil, then it stands to reason that a General with 128 million baht in his back pocket most likely aint a saint.

Confess and it shall set you free.

The sooner there's an election and this pantomime pajama parliament of parasitic peckerhead politicians is ditched, the better!

"the prime minister said he didn’t understand why there are still people looking for an opportunity to acquire ill-gotten gains or to get involved in corruption."

Because how else if the average Thai to acquire 128 million baht?

Great to see the cabinet setting the sample with there open and transparent drive of asset declaration.

The most popular PM in the last 10 years certainly has a nice nest egg of 128 million baht (which is 4 times the increase, not the net, but the increase of yingluck's wealth when she was in office)

Of course the most popular PM in the last decade has a bit of catching up to do to reach Chalerms dizzying figure of 171 million baht.

And just as Chalerm was not investigated and arrested for unusual wealth the good PM Prayut won't be either. Well done to both of them for securing a comfortable future for there families.

Of course those with an agenda will stay silent on Chalerm and denounce Prayut.

That is called PTP logic you know.

nonsense post

As I always say. "Facts" is the PTP's greatest enemy. "Beliefs" is their dearest friend.

The UDD / PTP supporters in Thailand are similar to cult figures in my view in so much as they use a "belief" to further their cause. Use brainwashing and will not dispute facts, but simply overlook them to argue their point. In this case "Fact 3"

Here is another fact he would probably overlook - 13th of September 2013 - "The cabinet approved a total budget of 270 billion baht for the government’s rice pledging schem" said Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Puangraj. He stated this will cover the costs of the scheme up until March, 2014. He lied. Plain and simple…. and this guy questions others credibility.

Of course our dear friend will predictably focus on why I left the "e" out in scheme. Why? It is the most easily verifiable!

Just to be clear, you are stating, with a straight face, that on the 1st of August the General never said that with 72% of the rice inspected, 80% was in good condition and 10% was in poor condition?

Before you answer, you'd better consult the nearest dictionary as you clearly have the definitions of "facts" and "beliefs" muddled.

BTW: The PTP's greatest enemy is actually soldiers with guns and their greatest friend is democracy.

You don't get it do you ?

The fact is that 80% is not in good condition as has now been confirmed.

And the other 4 FACTS ?

Laughable that you PT groupies seem to believe that everyone must belong to some gang and support an ideology and party, as you do.

We don't all have a need to belong and are quite capable of independent thought and some of us have taken an interest in the rice scheme and kept data bases of facts, so we do know the truth.

I focussed on FACT 3 because the fact that you were plainly and completely wrong could be instantly and irrefutably be proven by simply producing a newspaper article from the time.

Any honest and rational individual, when presented with clear evidence of their erroneous stance, would withdraw and concede their position, dishonest and irrational individuals on the other hand.....

Here's what you don't (or more likely refuse to) get

The ex deputy commerce minister is highlighting the contradiction

1. 1st of August, after inspecting 72% of the rice in storage, 10% was spoiled and 80% of it was declared to be in good condition.

2. 31st of October, now 70% is spoiled and 10% is in good condition

How did such a massive change occur? It would seem the only explanation is dishonesty from the current regime.

What about FACT 4?

Yellow claims that 2 - 3 million tonnes of rice were missing at the height of the protests now turn out to be almost completely false. How does one square away the contradiction? How does 2 - 3 million become 100,000?

Easily, the first figure was an out and out fabrication, 100% propaganda aimed at enabling a coup.

It's quite amusing to go back and re-read the comments made on TVF at the time, how absolutely certain some fools were, with no evidentiary basis at all, that 2 -3 million tonnes of rice was missing because of the evil and nasty "Shins" and their incompetence and corruption.

Time has proven these fools to indeed be fools.... of the highest order.

The NACC is meant to be an independent institution of the state, yet we get the following:

"Bancha called on Vicha to withdraw as an NACC member investigating the case, because he had earlier given an interview at Thammasat University's Rangsit campus in which he said 2 million tonnes of rice have gone missing from warehouses, though the case has not yet been resolved."

You are on the wrong side of history.

Within, at most, a few years, the dam wall is going to break and the old repressive and exploitive system will be washed away forever.

(BTW - goldfish are said to have a 30 second memory, it would seem they have much in common with your personal "data base of facts.")

The police chief and his wife are doing well too, even though they are not in the cabinet and not required to declare assets. According to publicly available information on the SET's Settrade English language website http://www.settrade.com/simsImg/news/2014/14067082.pdf they recently invested B360 million in a small cap stock, called Watana Capital (WAT), via a private placement at B0.036. The stock went up 14% today and 16% the day before and is now at B0.08. So their position is now worth B800 million, if they didn't sell too early. Nice work, if you can get it.

Anyway hats off to the police general and his wife for being such astute investors and investing openly in their own names rather than through nominees as many others do.

What about the General's wealth?

Any comments, or do you wish to continue avoiding the subject with your misdirection?

One if the few straight shooters who consistently stood her ground against corrupt officials. She's ruffled a few feathers in her time. This is payback.

Not sure straight shooter is the right term.

Her wikipedia page makes for an interesting read.

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

Fact 1.

It was not replaced it went rotten because of poor storage conditions.

Fact 2

The inspection was conducted by none other than Khun Nuttawat and took only 3 days to complete an inspection of all rice warehouses.

Fact 3.

Not true

Fact 4

There is a big difference between a claim of what has gone missing over the life of the scheme and what has now been found to be missing after a comprehensive inspection of the rice presently in storage.

Remember that rice was bought over 3 main and 4 second harvests with some farmers also selling a third crop which adds up to far more than is at presently in storage less what has been sold.

Fact 5

As already pointed out the auctions were for new seasons rice what he forgot to mention were the sales of poor quality rice to :

Ivory Coast which had to dump 20% of a shipment and cancelled farther orders.

The USA which returned a shipment.

Iran which used to be one of the biggest customers which cancelled orders because of poor quality rice delivered and still has not bought any more.

And Japan which is reported to still have poor quality Thai rice in storage that they cant use.

You should also note that Yingluck asked the NACC to do an inspection of the rice warehouses :

Posted 2014-04-24 09:59:53

PM urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

BANGKOK, 24 April 2014 (NNT) – Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has asserted that rice in the government's stockpile has not gone missing as suspected by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), urging the latter to conduct an inspection of the government's rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing.

That is what she has got and we now see the results.

Lets focus in on FACT 3, the most easily verifiable.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

To which you responded:

Fact 3.

Not true

So explain.....

'80% of rice is fine' Only 10 per cent of rice stockpiles has spoiled and only some sacks were missing, while 80 per cent was in still good condition, the rice inspection committee reported to the Rice Policy Committee meeting yesterday.

The rice scheme corruption fairytale doesn't stand up to factual analysis.

FACT 1:

pointing out that it was very difficult to replace 40 million tonnes of rice pledged by the government with substandard rice.

FACT 2:

the pledged rice were checked and inspected by officials as well as the millers who, together with the owners of the warehouses storing the rice, would have to held accountable if the rice were found to be of substandard quality.

FACT 3:

The prime minister told the media on August 1 that inspection of over 70 percent of the rice stockpiles showed that about 80 percent of them were fine.

FACT 4:

The prime minister’s claim that only 100,000 tonnes of rice had gone missing was in sharp contrast with the claim made by the Democrats and academics that as much as 2-3 million tonnes of rice might have disappeared.

FACT 5:

He pointed out that in previous rice auctions staged by the previous government, there had been no complaints from the buyers about the quality of the rice sold.

The reforms are simply to ensure that when "free and fair" elections are eventually held the Shins and associates will have no chance to win it.

Can't be too difficult.

I beg to differ.

It will be extremely difficult to develop a system that can be presented to the world as democratic whilst being 100% anti-democratic - this is what the poor sods are attempting to do.

As it is, they can't even manage to pin a double murder on a couple of poverty stricken foreigners in their own backyard without being held up to ridicule in the worlds press.

change the political ban from 5 years to life

scrap the immunity to prosecution while in office

change how certain bills and all constitutional changes are passed through the house requiring 2/3 majority vote

and they will be well on the way to a stable government and society - all the criminals and power abuse will be gone for good

Would these be actual criminals that are gone, or just those on trumped up charges by elite appointed corrupted institutions?

Would Suthep, for instance, ever be likely to be banned for life?

You keep harping on about the 2/3's quota, odds are Thaksin will, at some stage, win more than 2/3's of parliament - then what?

Another coup?

The country is a basket case. incapable of sorting its divisions, corruption and mismanagement, permanent military rule is the only way it can be saved from itself.

More or less permanent military rule since 1932 has turned the country into a basket case.

This is not a chicken or egg dilemma, the cause of the disease is as obvious as the cure.

Thailand needs an intravenous dose of democracy administered ASAP.

When they say 'to include representatives from both sides of the longstanding political conflict'

Then obviously one side of the conflict is Thaksin. So they want Thaksin to have a hand in drafting the new constitution?

I wouldn't trust him to open a packet of cornflakes without causing some sort of problem.

Problems are usually a matter of perspective.

Thaksin would distribute the cornflakes reasonably fairly amongst those around the table, this would only cause a problem for the established, mostly geriatric elites who would rather keep the lot in their own greedy little, big fat greasy, 12 sandwich eating hands!