halloween

I can think of a nice warm spot to put that bat, thick end first.

1 minute ago, alant said:

I wonder if it will ever get past the discussion phase???

construction is scheduled to start in september.

47 minutes ago, meatboy said:

this happened over 3days ago and this is the first report i have seen on TV. 5deaths in seconds suggest this chemical [fumes] was very very dangerous.and access should have been SEALED.

this is a tragedy that should not have happened.

Any enclosed space without proper ventilation is dangerous. The usual chain of events is that one person enters, in this case falls, is overcome, and then others rush to the rescue thinking they can hold their breath. That just doesn't work, but the alternative is watch someone die without trying to help them.

At the power station where I worked it happened to 3 industrial chemists, the people that should be most aware of the dangers.

While they are studying primary voting, would-be Thai politicians could try a few more concepts, such as conflict of interest and recusal to avoid it, and no 3rd party payments to elected officials. Those would certainly be foreign ideas, but given some nicely savage penalties and a watchdog to enforce them, they could probably come to grips with it.

Did they ever build the luxury prison she announced? She might regret letting that one fall through the cracks.

5 minutes ago, candide said:

The objective is to make it more difficult to manage political parties and to weaken them. Primary voting systems can also highlight divisions inside parties, which also goes against strong parties.

What you mean is stop despotic control, right. Factions in political parties can you imagine that, never happen in a real democracy.

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

No more Suthep, the criminal scum as deputy leader of a major party seem right by me. 

 

Lets not go too far and quote the Westminster system. Stay in SEA. Most cabinet ministers are also MPs. I will not shed a tear if they re-write the election law to abolish party list. Ahbisit will be disappointed though. He enlarged the proportion of party list when he was the PM. 

Those cabinet ministers who were party list MPs, who were encouraged (at least in Shin govts) to resign their seats so others could get on the gravy train. I see no reason to abandon standard Westminster for US republic style cabinet, but without oversight, and for the PM to become presidential and abandon parliament attendance. The PM is supposedly the most experienced and capable MP, not the next available relative of the party owner.

4 minutes ago, candide said:

Refering to the whole framework (this is only a piece of it), the problem is that the aim is not to give more power to the people. It is to give more power to unelected people than to elected people, by different mechanisms, including this one.

The intent of the Junta has never been to give more lower to people.

"It is to give more power to unelected people than to elected people, by different mechanisms, including this one."

How? just how does giving candidate selection to party members do that?

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

My bit on the primary voting system.

First I think it is a election delaying tactic. New laws will have to be written as the current law for new poll after house is dissolved is mandated within 45 days. Simple not enough time to hold a primaries for voters. So new laws and more delays. 

 

Second it is a waste of money for party list candidates destined for ministerial roles. MPs will have to resign from their posts to take up

ministerial roles. New primaries and election will have to be re-held and a waste of tax payer money. 

I could fix most of your problems in 2 easy steps.

1/ Abandon the party list, every MP fronts an electorate which examines his/her history and character. No more unelectable criminal scum appointed to high office.

2/ Cabinet members are selected from MPs and senators who retain their seat - standard Westminster system. No more appointing cronies, family members and yes-men.

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

What i made it quite clear a number of times I want the junta gone and I want elections. I just feel that the democracy is not working here as good as in the west. Is it that hard to admit that the democracy here is a mere schade of that in the west ? 

 

Now come on have a debate.. seems you are using all you can not to debate the primary voting system. What are you afraid of that you cant find enough arguments to shoot it down and have to admit its a good idea by the junta. 

I think your phrasing was off, should have been democracy HAS not worked well here. it certainly needed radical change over what eventuated. but you are wasting your time waiting for those who will never endorse a junta initiative to admit a reasonable idea has come from them, even if it might stop the likes of Chalerm from being DPM. Not what you would call Thai democracies finest hour.

12 minutes ago, Tofer said:

I don't think there is any ambiguity about what constitutes a terrorism act, and by association anyone conducting, planning or assisting in the act are deemed terrorists.

 

As has been noted, death is too good for them and serves their desire for martyrdom. Incarcerate them in a suitably inhospitable penal colony with tools to create their own shelter and seeds to grow their own food, etc. and leave them to suffer. Perhaps start them off with a pig farm! Apart from the ferry to ship them out there, no ongoing cost to the state, and if they are found to be innocent of the charges they can be released.

By historical precedent, they would spend their time killing each other.

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Soon this high speed railway will cause a national outbreak of uncontrollable suffering. I will take laughter over suffering anytime. 

Let's say the cost blows out to B200 billion and it is such a financial disaster that it loses B1 billion per month. Given that, it would take more than 30 years to equal what Yingluk blew on the rice scam in two and a half, not to mention the suffering from 3 more years of depressed rice prices as the stockpile was sold off.

And that's not bothering to mention that she was personally advocating a very similar plan, right up to designing the lunchboxes, before the courts stopped her plan because she planned to do it off-budget and without parliamentary scrutiny.

Eric, are you criticising Yingluk too?

10 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

"The minister said the high-speed rail project is meant to enhance the nation’s transport capacity and the logistics sector, giving a strong assurance that the country’s interests are the government’s top priority."

 

I think that it would be hard to find any other  Government which continually finds it necessary to try to reassure the public that it is actually acting in their interests, as opposed to the interests of the officials contained therein.  I wonder why the Thai Government feels it is necessary?  Well, not really!

 

They find it necessary because it is unusual. Prior governments didn't do it because it would cause a national outbreak of uncontrollable laughter.

2 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

How many small parties have members in Congress?

 

Bet you don't know because all you care about is toeing the Junta line.

 

Next thing you know one of you guys will be praising Hitlers Germany as an economic wonder to be emulated.

Why don't you state your real objection? Thaksin wouldn't like it.

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

Great reponse from someone who just deflected a valid question asked by SmarterThanYou with a "is that what happens in the US?".

 

LOL

That system is commonly used there. Does it result in the claimed effects?

1 minute ago, Smarter Than You said:

Seems you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

"THE PRIMARY voting system, despite its stated intention to eliminate financial influence over political parties, would quite to the contrary empower political powerhouses even further and reduce the chances for emerging, small-scale parties to take part in elections, according to politicians and academics."

 

"Nipit Intharasombat, deputy leader of the Democrat Party, also agreed that the system would only promote a clan system in the political arena beginning with the local level."

 

Primary voting system 'a threat to small parties' - The Nation - Thailand's

Is that what happens in the US?

3 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

You mean the current system where civilians fight who can enrich themselves the coming 4 years and when the red side wins the opponents will discuss with the army how best to create an excuse for a coup?

What has that got to do with primary voting; is your response to a difficult question just to type some rubbish?

40 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

The subject is the poll and its outcomes. Scroll to post #1 and see for yourself.

 

The voting system: its like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

You can't seriously tell me that you approve of the current system where the guy with the money chooses who will run as candidates for his party, pays candidates likely to win to join his party, and puts the unelectables on a party list to profit from their votes. And then reject a more democratic system known to work in major democracies because you don't like the people proposing it.

2 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Did he hit the nail on the head?

Did i state somewhere this new voting system is bad?

I can't remember i did, nor can I find it in my posts. Maybe you can enlighten me and quote me where i said this system is bad or worse than the current system.

 

What i did say is that the military is trying to stack the deck and what i did say is that they should have an open debate about the merits of the system and let the people decide.

But i guess you guys (you and halloween) will oppose that because.... uhm, yeah, why you guys don't want the people to decide?

Perhaps you could explain how it is 'stacking the deck' by introducing a more democratic way to select MP candidates?

If they were to announce an education program, an open debate, and then a vote on whether primary voting should be used, would you applaud or claim it was a trick to delay elections? Come on, admit it, whatever they do will be wrong in your, and others, eyes.

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Does not make your response to it any different.. kinda like pavlov and his dogs... you read junta and condemn it. 

 

Tell me what you think is really wrong with this system and debate it on its merits and faults. 

they don't have it in DPRK?

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The families of terrorist scum are not guilty of the scums actions. 

Yes, and no. Most terrorists base their actions on beliefs and attitudes instilled in them when they were very young and genetically predisposed to believing what they are told by their elders. "Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man" has been attributed to Aristotle and claimed by the Jesuits, and it is true. If a child is not is not exposed to religion (or other ideology) until they are old enough to reason, it is highly unlikely they will go on to commit terrorist acts in the name of some mythical invisible being.

5 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

The opinion of PTP supporters on this forum doesn't count as they also cheer about kids being killed in Trat and think voting makes a democracy.

 

But in all seriousness, I don't think anybody here really cares how MPs are picked as nobody will be able to name more than 5 MPs of any party. Nobody likes Charlerm or knows him personally, so why you think his nomination would be an integral part of problems people have with this change?

 

What most do care about is that the junta is working extremely hard to stack the deck of cards to get an outcome they like. 

But we all know that if they don't like the outcome they will simply do another coup and changes the rules of the game again, till they finally win.

 

Name me a country that prospered under military rule.

And please do not mention China without understanding why China is showing such growth in the past decades.

Baboon and you are taking the same attitude, the junta proposed it so it must be bad, which is completely illogical and ignores any argument in its favour.

It works in other democratic countries, and if nothing else, prevents the picking of MP candidates by the party leader(ship) and returns that right to the individual party members. Is that not more democratic?

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

How is that different from Prayut proceeding without transparency or accountability and with a rubber stamp NCPO-appointed parliament?

In fact the Constitutional Court denied Yingluck on the project because it "will bypass scrutiny."  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/683350-two-trillion-baht-bill-likely-to-be-killed-by-charter-court/

The NCPO governs differently but the same.

 

Thank you for the link. I was responding to a post claiming Yingluk's proposal was far more transparent. Whether the current proposal will be better is yet to be seen.

4 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

I don't think this poll is junta propaganda as it does not speak well for the junta: coming up with political systems barely anybody understands. 

Normally a government represents the people, in Thailand that is clearly not the case.

 

And many foreigners are in a rush to get democracy back to Thailand because with our democratic backgrounds and knowledge of history we know how this will end. 

Thailand will either slowly move back in time with neighboring countries overtaking or violence will take place to get the army out. Read up on world (and Thai) history and there are few positives ways this can happen.

Unlike you many foreigners want Thailand to prosper as we have family, friends, and investments here.

 

Barely anybody understands it so it must be bad? It works quite well elsewhere doesn't it? How about some voter education, or should Thailand only have a system understood by the ignorant.

I have family here, it is my home. Do you expect me not to complain or ask for change when B600 billion is wasted on buying an election. That could have bought better infrastructure for them.

1 minute ago, baboon said:

'Seems' being the key word. Not sure about the facts and figures? Never mind, just make it up.

Well I could go to the trouble of digging out the results of the relevant polls, but to what avail? You, Bob, and others simply reject any result which shows the people are quite happy the way the country is being run, or at least, happier than they were with the way the country was being run.

Do you have anything to say about primary voting? Isn't it at at least worth a try if it stops party leadership from appointing criminals and family members to head their ticket?

3 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

No, we could not.

 

The subject of this topic is the poll and its results, not the merits over one voting system over the other.

Really? Well as it has been decided any poll that gives an unsuitable result is junta propaganda, we won't have much to discuss.

To save a 2nd post, how is it that most of those in a rush to get back to democracy seem to be foreigners on TVF? Oh wait, that was another poll (actually, quite a few) with unsuitable results.