mudcat

Arrived this afternoon via Bahtnet.

My Social Security was sent as usual but as of this afternoon had not been received by Bangkok Bank. After the mandatory re-training after a long holiday I will look again and if it isn't there call and find out what happened.

I had a colonoscopy at our provincial (Buriram) hospital last year based on my U.S. doctor's recommendation for a 5-year re-test and family history (sibling). The price was 24K ThB including 6,500 lab work on one polyp. The cost was driven up considerably by them requiring two-nights in a 'VIP' room (4,500 ThB). Pathology was negative so I get to go back in 3-years (when I will be 79. I was not concerned by the price as my medical insurance applied towards my deductible that would be applicable for another 6-months.

I have provided my executor this to put in the wire memo space: Inheritance from his father, *** *** ***. Subject to but exempt from Thai Inheritance Tax Act and exempt under Thai Revenue Code Section 42.10. I have also provided a copy of my will (and in my case, brokerage beneficiary designations).

The TRD person is mistaking Article 20 from the U.S.'s 2006 model instead of Article 17 which Addresses Social Security in much the same terms as Article 20 in the actual Thai-United States tax convention: 2006 U.S. Model Income Tax Convention Article 17 PENSIONS, SOCIAL SECURITY, ANNUITIES, ALIMONY, AND CHILD SUPPORT 1. a) Pensions and other similar remuneration beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. b) Notwithstanding subparagraph a), the amount of any such pension or remuneration arising in a Contracting State that, when received, would be exempt from taxation in that State if the beneficial owner were a resident thereof shall be exempt from taxation in the Contracting State of which the beneficial owner is a resident. 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, payments made by a Contracting State under provisions of the social security or similar legislation of that State to a resident of the other Contracting State or to a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. ....

As might this

These may help

This document ignores the fact that DTAs include both exemption and credit methods to avoid double taxation. See #9 of the RD's DTA FAQ: (https://www.rd.go.th/english/23520.html): 9. What is the method for elimination of double taxation provided in the agreement? - In a double taxation agreement, there are credit and exemption methods. If an revenue officer relies on the infographic when dealing with a taxpayer with 'exempt' income the calculator will come out as well as the request for how much tax was paid in the other country. Lets all curse PowerPoint and those who dumb down complex issues to bullet points

Interesting discussion of the treatment of private pensions including ROTH distributions in the Technical 2006 Model (note that the sections are different from the 1996 Thai-U.S. conventions which has this as Article 20. https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-US-Model-TE-2006.pdf ARTICLE 17 (PENSIONS, SOCIAL SECURITY, ANNUITIES, ALIMONY, AND CHILD SUPPORT) This Article deals with the taxation of private (i.e., non-government service) pensions and annuities, social security benefits, alimony and child support payments. Paragraph 1 Paragraph 1 provides that distributions from pensions and other similar remuneration beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment are taxable only in the State of residence of the beneficiary. The term "pensions and other similar remuneration" includes both periodic and single sum payments. The phrase pensions and other similar remuneration is intended to encompass payments made by qualified private retirement plans. In the United States, the plans encompassed by Paragraph 1 include: qualified plans under section 401(a), individual retirement plans (including individual retirement plans that are part of a simplified employee pension plan that satisfies section 408(k), individual retirement accounts and section 408(p) accounts), section 403(a) qualified annuity plans, and section 403(b) plans. Distributions from section 457 plans may also fall under Paragraph 1 if they are not paid with respect to government services covered by Article 19. In the other Contracting State, the term pension applies to: [ ]. The competent authorities may agree that distributions from other plans that generally meet similar criteria to those applicable to the listed plans also qualify for the benefits of Paragraph 1. Pensions in respect of government services covered by Article 19 are not covered by this paragraph. They are covered either by paragraph 2 of this Article, if they are in the form of social security benefits, or by paragraph 2 of Article 19 (Government Service). Thus, Article 19 generally covers section 457, 401(a), 403(b) plans established for government employees, and the Thrift Savings Plan (section 7701(j)). However, the State of residence, under subparagraph (b), must exempt from tax any amount of such pensions or other similar remuneration that would be exempt from tax in the Contracting State in which the pension fund is established if the recipient were a resident of that State. Thus, for example, a distribution from a U.S. "Roth IRA" to a resident of the other Contracting State would be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State to the same extent the distribution would be exempt from tax in the United States if it were distributed to a U.S. resident. The same is true with respect to distributions from a traditional IRA to the extent that the distribution represents a return of non-deductible contributions. Similarly, if the distribution were not subject to tax when it was “rolled over” into another U.S. IRA (but not, for example, to a pension fund in the other Contracting State), then the distribution would be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State.

I was speaking proactively as to filing with my wife next year - my name will be on the return

Well, that is what the BoI maintains, but the language in Section 5 is not as clear as I would want to rely on exclusively.

Someone who has a strong position, but whose wife is easily bullied by Thai officialdom.

I am going to file jointly with my wife - which should show I believe I am in compliance and that return has been accepted .I am on a long term resident visa - my obligation to Immigration is limited to annual reporting (if I do not leave the Kingdom) and a re-qualification at five-years.

Not necessary - wanted to have my wife start with a better understanding of filing when the banks start to withhold interest. Also wanted to confirm that the largish ($60K) transfer were correctly documented and I was applying the Thai-U.S. DTA and my LTR exemptions correctly.

All my U.S. income is exempt from taxes as both my Social Security benefit and local government district pension are taxable only in the source country (in the U.S. Section 20.2 and Section 21.2a) both of which are excluded from Article 1's savings clause under 1.3a and 1.3b. I have been retired for more than 10-years and we live comfortably on my non-assessible U.S. income. My direct deposited Social Security benefit, which as it's source is taxable only in the U.S. is not taxable in Thailand when remitted and its exemption flows from the source and is not determined by its remittance mode or destination, in our case our living expenses here. My local government pension is likewise taxable only in the U.S. and its exemption flows from its source and is not determined by its remittance mode or destination when I make ATM withdrawals, credit card purchases here or there, or any other use or mode. We move all of our pre-2024 cash savings here last year and confirmed that these two transfer were not assessible - we did keep meticulous records of the source and paths to our respective Thai bank accounts (one in Baht, one in Dollars.) We have simplified our U.S. investment accounts into two accounts that I have no need to touch until either I leave or die (when they are non-assessable either under the Inheritance Tax Act or the Revenue Code. One of the reasons we went to the TRD provincial office was to have my wife understand the steps she will need to take to reclaim any withheld interest in subsequent years (none was withheld in 2024, so no need to file this year). I believe that the TRD has left their staff with a misleading document that appears to instruct their agents to use the Credit method to determine taxes due (see p.6 of the power point). The correct instruction for U.S. persons (and probably others) is to describe both the exemption and credit methods as shown below. Possibly the font size was too small, or there were too many words on a single page.