richard_smith237

Good thats something everyone should be relying on to stay healthy... Clean drinking water is a basic human right, as is being able to live in sanitary conditions... This isn't binary subject - contrary to your implications, viruses can still be spread in clean and sanitary conditions.... to suggest otherwise presents a fundamental lack of understanding of basic science and virology (at very simple levels). I accept that people dislike 'big Pharma'... but for some reason that clouds the most basic of intelligence when they double down their mentally illiterate arguments against vaccination because 'big Pharma' produced them... Without big Pharma, many of wouldn't be here.... But I also agree the large Pharmaceutical companies are also profit driven which does create conflict of interest many of us struggle with. You're probably one of those people who makes statements that start with "you're probably one of those people....." which is a Gaslighting Tactic when you're mentally bankrupt of an intelligent response...

Again, you've relied upon your survivorship bias, this is a cognitive error where you have focused on the "survivors" of a group and ignored all other factors... In this case you have ignored the factor that your 'group' is incredibly small of 2000 kids. There are approximately 10.63 million school age children in the UK. The projections below show with and without the MMR vaccines. In Summary: Without an MMR vaccine it is likely that 95 children in the UK would die of Measles, with the MMR vaccine, its projected that 1 would.. Without an MMR vaccine it is likely that approximately 100,000 children in the UK would be hospitalised, with the MMR vaccine, its projected that approximately 100 would.. Sources: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.england.nhs.uk/london/2023/09/07/more-than-32000-children-across-london-at-risk-of-catching-measles-as-new-school-term-gets-underway/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/measles?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

I don't agree with you Richard. There is no such thing as a measles virus.

I don' wish to bring other disagreements in from other threads... But, neither do you believe the world is an Oblate Spheroid (a globe) instead believing earth to be 'flat with a jaggedy base'... As such, with the utmost respect I can muster on a personal level and none-whatsoever on an intellectual level - any further entertainment of any discussion with you is completely futile because the points you wish to debate drag the discussion down to the utterly preposterous. When you refute basic proven science - you refute the sound fundamentals from which to enter intelligent dialogue and only the preposterous, the ridiculous, and the utterly idiotic remain as potential discussion points... Its a total waste of time and not even entertaining as a troll...

You're mixing your melons and its been explained to incredibly clearly. Measles is the disease caused by the by the Morbillivirus.... Morbillivirus is the virus that causes the desease called Measles.... - I don't know how that could explained to you any more clearly. Agreed... and vaccines are available for most of them (some listed below) Diarrhoeal Diseases – Cause: Bacteria, Viruses, Protozoa – Vaccine: Rotarix, RotaTeq (Rotavirus), Dukoral, Shanchol, Euvichol (Cholera) Typhoid Fever – Cause: Salmonella Typhi (Bacteria) – Vaccine: Typhoid Conjugate Vaccine (TCV), Vi Polysaccharide Vaccine (ViPS), Ty21a (oral) Hepatitis A – Cause: Hepatitis A virus (Virus) – Vaccine: Hepatitis A vaccine Hepatitis E – Cause: Hepatitis E virus (Virus) – Vaccine: Hecolin Amoebiasis (Dysentery) – Cause: Entamoeba histolytica (Parasite) – Vaccine: None - rarely fatal

So as an 11 year old child, YOU decided not to take the vaccine, or your parents decided that for you? Correct - at school we were given the option to take the vaccine or opt out. I took the vaccine a few years later at my GP along with other vaccines needed.

Outstanding lack of detail....

This thread is like Cat-Nip for idiots... I'm truly astonished at some of the statements on the last couple of pages.

Its a Disease... Just like AIDS is a disease, just live Covid-19 is a disease. You just (nearly) described the very definition of a disease !!!... A disease is a disorder or abnormal condition that affects the structure or function of an organism (i.e. humans), typically producing specific signs or symptoms. It can be caused by infections, genetic defects, environmental factors, or lifestyle choices. Diseases can be classified as infectious (caused by pathogens like bacteria, viruses, or fungi) or non-infectious (such as genetic disorders, autoimmune diseases, or lifestyle-related conditions like diabetes or heart disease).

Copy and paste comments into Chat GPT and tell it to argue - is that what you did ?... Your reply has AI written all over it - not worthy of a human response.

Measles is the disease caused by the morbillivirus.... Oh dear.... this is a thread killer... You think you can avoid all diseases by drinking clean water...

hmm... Thailand playing China's puppet again... In July 2015 The Thai government forcibly deported nearly 100 Uyghurs to China and that led to to international criticism. The World Uyghur Congress (WUC) claimed that at least 25 Uyghur men were killed while resisting deportation. The Thai government denied these allegations, and the WUC later removed the claim from its statement. The news was 'somehow' kept extremely quiet, even shut down... Stories have since surfaced from time to time that of those (Military) who were there while this happened described events of far greater atrocity than the those claimed by the WUC... Apparently - Tear Gas was thrown into the transport lorries of the Uyghur who were being transported to the 'repatriation aircraft'... those who fled the truck (to avoid the tear-gas') were shot.... Women and children were in a different truck and all survived... >> This is the rumour, whether true or not remains to be seen, all news information which stated this was deleted within a few days of the event.... its perhaps 'dangerous to discuss'... https://www.benarnews.org/english/news/thai/uyghurs-reported-deaths-07092015151921.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

I don't think its that simple... It could be argued the parents of the deceased were influenced by such 'misinformation'...

And the ones who did die... are not here to tell us that they 'caught it and had no issues'... because they died from it... Just like those who didn't wear seat belts and ended up in a massive car wreck and passed... they can't be here to quote "never wore a seatbelt in my life and nothing bad happened to me".... 'Survivorship bias' has been mentioned in this thread, its so simple, yet so many posters seem unable to fathom such a simple concept. So you think... You've always mentioned you never had the best of relationships with your wife... Is it possible that 'she took the children for their check-ups' and they received their vaccinations without your knowledge ? Research suggests that older fathers may have a higher likelihood of passing on certain genetic mutations to their children, which could contribute to an increased risk of autism..... ... But go head, blame that on a vaccine..... Sorry for the harsh reply because I know its a personal and emotional topic when you bring 'your own children' into the discussion - but... the flaws in your argument while shoehorning out confirmation bias can readily be countered.

Starving and thirsty kids living in the 3rd world can die from anything. That's why they deliberately use 'worldwide' stats. You're smarter that that dumbed down, over simplified and flawed excuse Brit... Those same 'Starving and thirsty kids living in the 3rd world can die from anything'.... with vaccination too... that facet cancels itself out. Dealing with only Developed (1st World Nations). Before the MMR vaccine, developed countries saw significant measles-related deaths: 400–500 annually in the U.S. and around 500 per year in England and Wales. With 3–4 million cases annually in the U.S., measles had a fatality rate of 1–3 per 1,000 cases. Without the vaccine, thousands of deaths per year would likely occur in first-world nations, alongside additional cases of encephalitis, hospitalisations, and disabilities. The MMR vaccine has drastically reduced these numbers, preventing widespread outbreaks and saving countless lives. The percentage decrease in measles-related deaths due to the MMR vaccine in developed nations is: United States: 100% decrease (from ~450 deaths per year to near 0). United Kingdom: 100% decrease (from ~500 deaths per year to near 0). Its really quite simple: Vaccines work..... I'm simply astonished by the amount of people who can put a sentence together, who appear to have an education yet avoid to accept these simple facts.

No they haven't. See what I did there... throw away one liner, void of intellectual context to match your comment,..

But you weren't forced... you could have opted out. I recall opting out of the TB vaccination when I was 11 years old at school.... and took it later before travelling overseas.

I do believe everyone has an equal right to enter discussion and debate there side - but doing so from an overwhelming show of ignorance is ridiculous..... .... mRNA vaccines are not 'Gene Therapy'.... that was the first arguments made by the uneducated when the mRNA vaccines were first publicised... claims often made by people who do not know what Deoxyribonucleic Acid is, what Ribonucleic Acid is and what the 'm' stands for in mRNA vaccines (messenger) as in Messenger Ribonucleic Acid..... Now... but put the gene therapy idiocy to bed: Gene therapy typically involves altering DNA inside the nucleus, either by inserting, deleting, or modifying genes to treat genetic disorders. mRNA vaccines do not integrate into the DNA or alter the genome. Instead, they provide temporary instructions for cells to produce a viral protein (e.g., the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines), which then triggers an immune response. Gene therapy aims for permanent or long-lasting genetic changes, while mRNA vaccines only produce a short-lived response. Whereas mRNA from the vaccine remains in the cytoplasm and is quickly degraded after it is used to make proteins. Gene therapy is designed to correct genetic diseases by modifying genes. mRNA vaccines are designed to train the immune system to recognize and fight infections, not to modify a person’s genes.

Right... I'm off to get a Vaccine... ... Its a vaccine that protects me from exposure to the utterly stupid.... Seems to be working....

Perfectly put.... Its often exhausting being dragged down to that level of stupidity... I call it the 'water fallacy' just to highlight the stupidity of such comments.... "Everyone I have ever met has consumed water and died"

Blind tests would be needed to prove that... Put people in a room, introduce SARS-CoV-2.... 100,000 are vaccinated 100,000 people are not vaccinated Observe the results (Results from AI). The estimates provided are based on data from reputable health organisations and studies that have consistently demonstrated the protective effects of COVID-19 vaccination. These sources indicate that unvaccinated individuals face higher risks of infection, severe illness, and death compared to those who are vaccinated. Key Findings from Notable Sources: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): A study reported that during the late BA.4/BA.5 period, unvaccinated individuals had COVID-19 mortality rates 14.1 times higher than those who received a bivalent booster. The infection rate was also 2.8 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared to those vaccinated with a bivalent booster. cdc.gov Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC): Research indicated that during the Delta variant predominance, unvaccinated individuals were 6.2 times more likely to be infected, 21.0 times more likely to be hospitalised, and 15.4 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared to vaccinated individuals. cidrap.umn.edu JAMA Internal Medicine: An analysis found that COVID-19-associated hospitalization rates were 10.5 times higher in unvaccinated persons compared to those who had received a booster dose. jamanetwork.com The studies collectively highlight the substantial benefits of vaccination in reducing the risk of COVID-19 infection, severe disease, and mortality. The earlier estimates were derived by applying these observed relative risks to hypothetical populations of 100,000 vaccinated and 100,000 unvaccinated individuals, illustrating the potential large-scale impact of vaccination. Obviously actual numbers can vary based on factors such as the specific variant in circulation, individual health conditions, and adherence to public health measures. However, the overarching conclusion remains consistent: vaccination significantly reduces the risk of severe outcomes from COVID-19 (these results were mostly relevant to the initial outbreaks of Covid-19). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7206a3.htm?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/severe-covid-19-death-lowest-far-among-vaccinated-canadians?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2796235?utm_source=chatgpt.com

So .... still defending him, I see. And playing the race card ("bigot") as a final desperate Hail Mary. Yes, if he were Thai, or German etc.. there may be less hate.... If he were Israeli, I'd also expect to see a lot of 'pile-on' against him... because many people are bigots - so yes, the 'race card' is most definitely being played here because I think its a clear factor in how people are considering this issue. And no... perhaps you are not intelligent enough to comprehend the point I am making - what contact was there ????.... was it a hand on the shoulder and the rider didn't like it ? Because IMO - thats perfectly normal when getting on a bike. But... IF the Iranian did try to 'grope her breasts' then yes, throw the book at him... See... thats not defending the Iranian, thats just refusing to be a blind as you are to this issue.... Of course you believe your Thai friend blindly. This female grab rider too must be a liar. 100% I believe him, I've known him closely for 20 years.... there is no chance he did anything other than place his hand on her shoulder when getting on and off the bike. I suspect she (the rider) didn't like this and complained about physical contact - over reacted and Grab, rightly so, protected their employees, but didn't investigate properly. So... Advice for you - Be careful when you 'get on a grab-bike' or moto-taxi (especially if the rider is female) because they may not like the manner in which you 'steady yourself' as you get on and off the bike.... Thus: my comments here are: There are other possibilities that people might want to consider if viewing this story without bigotry or bias.... for others like yourself... "hang-em" he's Iranian...

OK... but thats not the whole picture... - The severity of there Measles ? - The length of time they are contagious and 'how severely contagious' they are ? - The probability of tranmission compared to unvaccinated ? Thus: the vaccine efficacy of 97% implied by your comment ignores other vital factors... For example: If I take a an Influenza vaccine and I still catch Influenza, my symptoms may be less, and last for a shorter period, I'm less likely to transmit to other people even though the Influenza vaccines is known to have an efficacy of approximately 40-60% in any one year. In aggregate, its far more effective - and this is something people need to be understanding when arguing about (or against) vaccines.

For anyone who is 'anti-vaccination'.... It would be interesting to see them go back and live in times with our current knowledge on hygiene and diet... and see how long they last. With full access to antibiotics and we were to send 2 million people back in time.... to pre-vaccination era, with the current dietary and hygiene and medical knowledge... 1) half of the test group are fully vaccinated against all known diseases 2) half the test group are not... What would the survival rates be between the two groups of 1 million people ? Predicted Death Toll Vaccinated Group: Likely loses 1-5% of people due to accidents, some bacterial infections, and other environmental risks. Unvaccinated Group: At least 30-50% could die from viral pandemics over time, especially smallpox and measles. Conclusion: The vaccinated group would likely have a near-modern survival rate (95-99%) thanks to their immunity to viral diseases. The unvaccinated group would suffer from high mortality (30-50%) due to deadly viral infections, despite access to antibiotics, good hygiene, and diet. The greatest killers in the past were viruses, which modern medicine only controls through vaccines, antibiotics alone wouldn’t be enough to protect the unvaccinated.