Chongalulu

23 hours ago, Briggsy said:

You're right.

 

But I would add that Thais say, "Yes," most often when they understand just one or two words in the sentence that they have recognised, and then have constructed their own meaning around that. They then answer, "Yes," to their own question!

 

So in this particular example the IO may have understood "foreign transfer" but not all the rest about what transaction code is required and then said, "Yes, yes," as a foreign transfer method does exist.

 

As you point out, if the OP had asked what transaction code is required to qualify for the foreign transfer option for a retirement extension, the response may very well have been the blank face. That is the standard response for 'I know it is not a yes/no question but I don't understand what was asked."

A valid assessment. Unfortunately different banks have different codes so it can’t be reasonably expected for the IO to know them so the blank face should be expected. Also my bank book has a code against the transaction which isn’t even in the list in the passbook and only the statement says domestic transfer! My feeling is that for the most part IOs will need something as close as possible in simplicity to the income letter,hence a statement containing ONLY foreign transactions.Only  As this unfolds over the next few months will the picture become clearer - and I don’t mean clear!- so we remain in a kind of limbo.

3 hours ago, mikosan said:

I am one who uses the income method when I apply for my extension for the purposes of retirement and always have done, although previously using an income letter from my embassy.  For many years I have tended to bring in in excess of 65000 baht per month in any case, but as soon as there was a suggestion that this might be a prerequisite, around October last year, I have made sure it was always over the 65000 mark.  This year I am due to extend towards the end of August and things may be clearer by then.  However, as it stands at the moment, I intend to present myself at immigration in Hua Hin with all the usual documentation, plus bank statements from Kasikorn bank for a year and my Transferwise receipts and see how it goes.  I shall make sure I renew at the soonest possible moment, so that I have the necessary time to obtain any further documentation and I will make sure I take my Thai girlfriend and her very cute and smiley 6 year old daughter, who we look after together, with me. As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat and we all know how Thais are with children!

Your (and many others) problem will be that you will have relied upon the supporting paperwork of transferwise to verify foreign transfer when your Kasikorn statement will say domestic. You are expecting the IO to examine up to 12 sets of paperwork. Others have reported IOs willing to accept only bank statements which isolate designated foreign transfers because anything else is too complicated for them to grasp.Should That be the case when you actually come to do your extension there is no other paperwork you can subsequently produce to overcome that requirement,you will have to leave the country to reapply I understand.

As the OP my plan B is to revert to marriage visa and ensure 400k in my account 2 months before if I deem at that cut off point that the assurances I was given cannot be relied upon. I at least have that luxury.

If reverting to a marriage visa after a few years retirement visa ,as many will be due to new rules,will it be treated from this perspective ( home visits etc) as a new one or will your previous initial marriage visa be carried over?

On 3/9/2019 at 11:06 AM, wgdanson said:

I have recently made my 65k transfers to my Bkk Bank from First Direct, and was very pleased when the last one on 1st March arrived within 24 hours, in GBP, and was FREE OF CHARGE.

Just spoken with them and was assured that there are no fees when sending GBP to Thailand.

They say no fees which compared to other banks charging £20-25 sounds good,but when I went to transfer equivalent of 65k baht the exchange rate it offered was worse compared to my usual fx company by equivalent of £23 - so they’d just disguised the fee! 

Nothing new or of any consequence here.

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

What used to be a simple process for many of us to transfer sufficient funds to live on, whilst meeting the required level of income, has now become a logistical nightmare for many.

 

In my case I transfer whatever I need monthly from my Santander Intenational account online, via TransferWise, it's quick, easy and very cost effective.

 

The fact that as I bank with Kasikorn and the deposit shows up as "Dummy branch" shouldn't be an issue, it's a regular deposit, it comes from overseas and have the additional paperwork to support the fact.

 

To be fair if I were a Thai Immigration Officer doing these sort of applications day in and day out, I wouldn't want to go through reams of evidence to satisfy me that the applicant met the latest requirement, as they or their superior decided were needed, maybe my local office will be satisfied with the paper trail, maybe they won't and I'll be waved away when I come to apply again for my extension next year.

 

So what are my options, I could open an account with Bangkok Bank, continue to use TW and hope that they mark the next twelve months transfers as FTT, if they don't mark one as such I'm probably scuppered.

 

I could get Santander to transfer the required amount every month and hope thay don't use an intermediary bank as that may not show up as a deposit from overseas. You can't initiate a transfer in Sterling to Thailand online, you have to call Jersey, the bank costs are higher, you don't get the same rate as TW and you have to pay a receiving fee, and of course if there's an intermediary bank they'll take their cut and it may not show up as an International Transfer.

 

As I've said before, why does such a simple task need to be so difficult.

My situation almost exactly mirrors yours except I use a different fx company. Santander also charge £25 per transfer !...and likely worse rates so minimum of £300 in additional charges plus the rate disadvantage. I’m going back to marriage visa !

5 hours ago, jesimps said:

I know it's no help but I made a transfer last week from UK to my newly opened BB account using Transferwise and it's shown as international transfer. So far so good.

It’ll only have to go wrong (differently) once in the next 12 transfers and you’re f##ed . Transferwise don’t guarantee it will always go that way. 

This OP post is the beginning of the chaos I predicted and there’ll be more to come. Welcome to the lottery of income based applications. I’m moving back  to 400k marriage visa for 2 months prior as the only certain answer.....until they have another afterthought!

38 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I think a transfer company like transferwise will have a better net rate but may not be shown as International, if its needed to prove monthly income i wouldn't risk it with transferwise until we hear reports Immigration are "relaxed" about it

 

It’ll never be totally clear (as per income letter) and each office/IO will put their own slant on it ,so cannot be trusted or relied upon. Like many I’ll revert to baht 400k for 2 months under marriage visa....which is more work for the IO! 

On 2/19/2019 at 2:58 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Kasikorn show as International when i look at the transactions online, but the statement you download just has teller code TFN05027.
Swift from Santander UK. Maybe printed bank statement from bank will be different?

I use an fx company but when I checked my Santander bank they charge £25 per transfer! Under immigration current rules you’ll need 12 of those which will cost you an extra £300 per annum- and I bet their exchange rate is worse too.

12 hours ago, LucysDad said:

 

Yes, I saw them.

 

I have no issue with TW transfers into my Kasikorn account - they are easily identifiable and cross-reference. Any IO who wants to see 65k+ coming in per month will recognise it.

 

My question was about automatic 'failure' if someone had, say, missed month 1 at the start of the first year of the changes (but transferred 780k+ over the next 11 months).

I would counsel you against assuming anything. When I extended in January using BE income letter I asked the IO about this ,showing them an audit trail comprising funds leaving uk bank,fx company 's paperwork and Kasikorn bank book. I may as well have been presenting a paper on the theory of relativity. Now imagine presenting them with 12 sets! Remember,all they had to do in the past was look at income letter and do a simple calculation of the exchange rate,so compared to this what you will assume is straightforward forward will be anything but to an IO. You will arrive with all this as the only basis to renew your visa ,be told 'no good' and then what....you think you will win the argument?

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

Hi, no to your last question.

 

 

I read all that and am fairly well-versed. I didn't read that there would be a mandatory 'failure' for not making 12 x 65k in year one. If it said exactly that, then I missed it.

Yes,It said from the outset, 65k transferred per month from a foreign transfer ,no provision for making it up by transferring double in the next month.There is also an issue where those using fx companies like Transferwise (rather than expensive banks) into banks other than Bangkok bank are showing up as Domestic transfers on their statements - like my Kasikorn account. Did you see those threads?

6 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Why can't Thaivisa interview  Pol Maj Gen Surachet Hakpal and have him explain why this policy on extension of stay for Retirement and Marriage have different interpretations by IO officers under his control?   Why isn't there only one policy and all are following it.  There are many other questions that should be asked.  Have Thaivsa member list them and present them to Big Joke.

You are 'joking' aren’t you? This isn’t about clarifying and unifying the procedure- that would require thinking things through and drafting rules clearly and unambiguously . As ever it’s about grandstanding and image.

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

No confusion it's simple:

Married visa: minimum 40,000 baht per month or 400,000 baht in a Thai bank for 2 months prior and 3 months after application.

Retired visa: minimum 65,000 baht per month or 800,000 baht in a Thai bank for 2 months prior and 3 months after application

 

What's confusing ???.

YOU are confused! 

The marriage visa does NOT require you to hold 400k 3 months afterwards. Some offices ,as previously ,want you to maintain that amount in the account during the 30 day under consideration period until the visa extension is confirmed.

50 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

Who said that ?

 

Not what I have read.....

Read the police rules on the income method effective from January this year ( and on several other threads) which stipulates  that where your embassy no longer offers an income letter, then for each and every month you must show an international transfer of 65k into your Thai account. Miss just one of those months therefore  and the basis for your income based next extension is invalidated. I can’t believe you’ve missed that unless you’ve misunderstood my post? 

PS are you Lucy's Dad from Times on line? 

23 hours ago, Psimbo said:

Come back in 'a couple of moths' with stats of how many have actually left. it's complete testicles.

 

Nice to see we have ANOTHER thread on one issue. Why can't people chill out, wait a couple of weeks and see what actually emerges. 

Because,oh short sighted one ,if you’ve just extended your retirement visa in January (as I have) and rely on the income method,then it effects your planning effective from this month (February) because in order to have 12 monthly transfers of 65k from abroad to qualify for your next extension,the first one will have to go on this month. Don’t get that done and you will have to resort to the 800k deposit route.

21 hours ago, OJAS said:

I strongly recommend that you check with your local immigration office whether such statements, when read in tandem with passbook entries, would satisfy their requirements. TransferWise produce similar statements, and concerns have been expressed in other recent threads as to the likely willingness of immigration officers to accept these as evidence of the foreign provenance of particular transfers which have not been coded FTT or similar. 

When I extended my retirement visa in Jan using the BE income letter I asked about this at Korat office which is usually a helpful friendly office. I showed them basically an audit trail ( uk bank statement indicating funds leaving my account to World first currency,the payment slip like yours indicating transaction details and Kasikorn bank book showing corresponding arrival. I may as well have presented a theory of relativity paper- there wasn’t even a realistic attempt to understand it. Maybe it was because then everything was so new but can you imagine producing 12 separate sets and even if beforehand you ask an IO who does understand and indicates it’s acceptable,when you come to present that to probably another officer,utterly relying on it as your application validator you meet a different response from someone who can’t be bothered to understand/accept it? You’re buggered! 

It can’t be risked.

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The old rule was 800k 3 months before renewal.  The new rule is 800k 2 months before and 3 months after and 400k the rest of the time.  That's what I said.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yet.

At least in one office (CM) it appears they are demanding backup for the transfers even under the new rules and they must be from abroad. So just recycling most of the same funds risks rejection. 

The issue comes in terms of identifying that the funds come from abroad (even when they have) as I know you are aware from other threads,if that’s what you mean by backup? Once there I think even Immigration offices can have no issues with withdrawing it, do it in cash ,ostensibly for living expenses and use it with Dee money to repatriate . But you are basically correct in that the widespread ambiguity allows an IO to make up any old ???? they can think of.

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

2 before and 3 after is 5 months and 12 months 400?  What did I get wrong? 

3 months after your visa @ 800 k leaves 9 months @ 400k left of the full year,or if you want to renew subsequently only 7 months @ 400k because you would 2 months before that have to boost it back up to 800k.

1 hour ago, dotpoom said:

I voluntarily took out accident insurance with one of my banks (cost less than 5000 Bt. mind you). I think it's a great thing for the price.

Is it? Have you checked out the exclusions- it may not be as great as you think?

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

That isn't income, so you want to cheat the system again. Which will result in counter measures from immigration.

There is no ruling in police orders that precludes you from doing that,but see my other comment about what an expensive process it would be.