saminoz

"Those reports are groundless. Doctors have examined the defendants' physical health and there is no sign of torture," Prachum said.

Water boarding and rubber hoses don't leave any physical signs. That might be the only "professional law enforcement procedure" the police carried out skillfully.

Did the B2 provide any details of how they were tortured?

They did. In court. You can search Thai Visa

Ignore him Sweat, he's a pure troll with no agenda other than stirring the shiite.

Late to the forum and clearly hasn't even bothered to familiarise himself with the case at all. Another troll, just not a very smart or bright one.

This is now getting a larger audience. In the past hour it was reported on Al Jazeera news hour. It also mention that Thailand has one of the worlds highest highway traffic death tolls. That ought to make some ears twitch.

It’s also continually running on the tickertape at the bottom of the screen on the Al Jazeera news bulletin every hour!

But I wish somebody like the BBC (such as panorama or something similar) or even Al Jazeera would do a one hour feature on traffic accidents in this country and try to analyse why Thailand is the second most dangerous country in the world for traffic accidents? and why Thai drivers are so impatient and inconsiderate and what can be done to help change their attitude?

There are so many questions that can be asked and addressed in a feature program and the Thai government certainly wouldn't like that concentrated worldwide publicity. In the face of the volume of cars on the roads now and the number all these dreadful traffic accidents why doesn’t the Thai government seem interested in raising driving standards? I mean the driving test here is an absolute joke and a farce compared to so many other countries. Why does nothing ever get done? Why doesn’t the minister of transport appear in public from time to time and express his horror and indignation and express determination to improve standards and curtail this carnage?

and they have plenty of cases to discuss. Just look at how many appear regardingThailand on this Al Jazeera website

http://www.aljazeera.com/Search/?q=bus%20crash%20in%20Thailand

Perhaps they should make the Minister for Transport appear on TV every month and announce the latest road death figures, with a breakdown of motorcycle, public transport, commercial vehicle, car and farang deaths.

Maybe a little loss of face might make him a little more attentive to his duties?

It is a ludicrous issue to have the police complaining about their reputation being damaged. They are not a business, they are not an individual, they have an obligation to SERVE the people.

That includes NOT suing people when they complain rightly or wrongly about their service.

They can have a chit chat to explain their bit, but they should never be allowed to sue for defamation.

That's the issue TaH, they ARE a business, probably the largest and richest pyramid scheme/franchise in Thailand! Plenty to defend by using their bought positions to protect their revenues.

The RTP tend to use their positions of privilege to suppress the people, not serve them.

"Former HELLS ANGLES member Wayne Rodney Schneider found dead".

What is a Hells Angle?

ARE YOU SERIOUS ?????? where have you been for the last 40 years

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

your head

good grief!

if the service isn't good enough then expect to be criticised, it's all part of feedback and continued improvements

and if you think you are beyond criticism be careful about the can of worms you are about to open, it will come back and bite you hard

If this woman broke the law then prosecute her for the offence she committed and move on, this libel accusation is pure nonsense and any reasonable court will see it that way

"...any reasonable court will see it that way."

Well, herein lies the problem for the accused.

The problem they face, and what us foreigners don't realize, is that the law/s in Thailand, and some other Asian countries, are not the same as what we foreigners know at home.

The line between criminal and civil law is blurred, and what we know as civil offences at home, are in fact, criminal offences in Thailand, jail time may result, where at home a cash settlement would result.

Wrong. In Thailand, regardless of civil or criminal law, a cash settlement is nearly always the result

Holy crap !!! I am going to jail for sure, as I have spent years having

a field day regarding my opinion of the gang of corrupt buffoons known

as the " Royal" Thai Police...... Oh wait, I have already left Thailand

so I should be safe. Unless they extradite me... :-)

Calling them the Royal Thai Police is surely the greatest act of Lesse Majeste imaginable? It is the greatest insult to His Majesty perpetrated in Thailand

We better be careful on here too,if they ever get to read some

of what is said about them on here,there could be a few arrests,

they are very sensitive,8 years is more than you would get for

murder !.

regards Worgeordie

I love the Thai police and I know they do an excelent job!

Especially the brave officers who work in the gold shops all day..

I feel very safe every time I go in to buy more gold.

( I will also post this on my Facebook page )

Great move, it's highlyunlikely that they'll ever understand the sarcasm!

Well, let's just hope thai police doesn't start browsing english forums...

Highly unlikey, most RTP are illiterate thugs.

The issue here is they are trying to attack the symptoms instead of the virus.

What a bunch of complete idiots.

It amply demonstrates the immaturity of the average Thai male I'm afraid.

Scary that these morons are responsible for public safety but goes some ways to explaining their incompetence in serious matters like the Koh Tao murders and the recent Erawan Shrine bombing.

1. Learn Thai fluently

2. Forget half of what you learnt.

No it's not true.

That's just hate propoganda spread by racists who can't cope with a black president of the USA.

Pathetic.

Cumon man, their Obumers own words. And the health dept in Hawaii (democrat state) that has control of the birth records is covering it up as well! I am Australian so it's not my fight, but you can't change history!

Listen at the 22 second mark: "I come from Kenya " a common way to say he was born in Kenya. https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQuAIwBGoVChMIiN7njs-JyQIVI-emCh3N9wa_&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DcQcd41RO25k&usg=AFQjCNHuXMwSoRHf8OkmNV8ddwrEtsM8Jw&sig2=tEcsuhHSaYs0l1IdVldvnA

I was born in Australia but when a Thai person asks me were I from? I say "I come from Australia"....and do the dinjo thing cos the often think I come from Austria! It's just easier than trying to explain in Thaiglish there's a country next to Indonesia called Australia.

HAHA! I'm from the US & my wife is from Surin. I've been to 6 continents, my wife has been to 5 or 6 countries.

A few years ago when my daughter was about 7, she had a little ball with the globe printed on it.

She came running outside & asked me to show her where Australia was, as she had just seen some kangaroos on TV.

At least her mom was honest, ... she didn't know, so she sent the kid to ask me. Now they both know.

--------------------------

Obama is DEFINTELY half Kenyan. His mother was Caucasian citizen of the USA that liked to burn diesel.

Calling someone a racist over stating a well known fact is just sad. Makes me think the person saying it is the true racist.

You are so right JW. BluesPunk has a mighty chip on his/her shoulder and always rushes to defend the (sometimes) indefensible if it has the slightest chance to skew the topic to a racist agenda.

Sadly, he/she is one of the many black/disadvantaged people who cannot ever seem to see racism as a two way street!

Try being a white man in Nigeria, for example, to see true racism in action. It's also pretty common here in Thailand but it generally goes under the guise of xenophobia.

Safest to ignore BP's own racist agenda and put it down to him/her having had a Thai level of education I guess.

Obama is half Kenyan, end of story. I don't see how that detracts from him being a good or bad President but, as a non-US citizen, it is surely sad to see him see him sell out to big business and to not be the "Black Messiah" that many of BP's ethnic group were hoping for!

Sad really!

While I am a beer lover - more precisely, a beer lover from Belgium, I do agree that the aggressive advertising for beer should stop.

And I do support anti alcohol campains.

But what this "official" is saying, is at best 19th century paternalism, if not 1930s fachism.

I agree that it's paternalism. Such a shame the parents are retards.

I pay 6900 for a 40 sm condo near the Railway Station with a sparkling clear pool.

Pretty quiet, newly repainted public areas and very convenient to the centre and all the shops etc.

I find this worrying. Says he admitted to finding a phone on the beach on the 'night' of the murders - am assuming this should read on the 'morning' of the murders. the B2 said they went to bed between 1am and 2am (i think). It has been reported that the murders took place sometime around 4.30am - of course this could be quite wrong. But my concern is did Wei Phyo find the phone after the murders and if so then surely he would have seen something relating to the crime also, or did he find the phone before the murders on the beach? And we still don't know if the damn phone actually belonged to David Miller. How difficult can it be for heavens sake to find out whose phone it was? Somethings not right.

IIRC the last time Miller and Witheridge were seen was after the time the defendants claim to had been back at their place.

The phone is exactly the same model as the one taken from one of the victims, since it was smashed the only way to find out who it belonged to was to, as far as I know, compare the SIM serial number with records from the UK; officially the UK won't provide any information since it's a case involving the death penalty, unofficially a UK embassy official said it is David Miller's phone, according to a witness during the hearing. Whether the judge will accept that as proof of provenance is up to him.

The defense on the other hand made it clear that they were very much against the UK helping in any way on the matter; that is why I've said many times that the people that want to see the crimes solved and want the defense to win should consider the possibility that they are holding mutually exclusive positions.

In any case, as I mentioned, the phone is identical to Miller's; what are the chances of that phone disappearing from the victim, an identical one being found by the suspects (supposedly after they were back to their room? On top of that they (the defendants) themselves said they thought it could be linked to the murders, apparently the day after the crime. Now then... how did they know there was a phone missing from the victim back then? Let alone knowing what brand and model it was.

People that have been saying these men are innocent of any involvement in the crime should try to put things in perspective and be honest with themselves, if the same circumstances were related to any of the other suspects in the alternate theories, would they dismiss all of this out of hand?

I believe that your beloved RTP failed to prove any claim that the phone belonged to David. The photos of the phone shown by the RTP seem to show two completely different phones altogether but, assuming that you are referring to the iPhone shown "smashed" in some of the photos the RTP could actually afford to keep in evidence (much more important, apparently, than Hanna's clothing, blood pools on the beach or the other murder weapon(s) they earlier claim were used), how many iPhones do you think were present on that island the days of the murder and before? There are hundreds of millions of these things in circulation and your are factually wrong in your tripe about the SIM serial number. Much more relevant would be the IMEI of the phone.

What is truly confusing me, however is why, given the fact that the RTP didn't find the phone compelling enough to go to any lengths to prove its provenance in the court, why you fell so strongly compelled to do so?

Might it have anything to do with the fact that the mainstays of your beloved fabrication have fallen apart? I am talking about the reenactment, the DNA on the hoe, the apparent lack of the rale and the inability of the RTP to either provide any original DNA semen samples, original crime scene photos, intelligence or the shocking refusal to provide chain of custody for their so-called DNA evidence?

Your dead horse must be wondering what it did so wrong to deserve all these continued beatings! Laughable!!

Yes I know AleG has business interests on Koh Tao and I hope everyone on here realises that.

Congratulations, you just proved what I was saying a couple pages ago; what you think you know is nothing but Internet rumors, or rather lies, which you willfully gobble up and use as a basis to pass judgement on me.

OK, time for two questions from me uncle AleG.

1. Given your reply above, do you deny writing the false (and now retracted review) of a diving operation on Koh Tao (I only mention this as a positive answer would call into question the veracity of any/all of your previous posts on Koh Tao issues and possibly point to you having a vested interest)?

2. Does your relationship (through your wife) to a very high ranking RTP officer (information freely given in other TV Forums, strangely not here) have any basis on the strange, confusing and, for most on here, unbelievably unbending assertion that the B2 are must be guilty?

Time to 'fess up maybe.

To be fair, I will answer both questions myself;

1. I have never written a review of any resort or hotel I have stayed in, I just don't care. I do dive, but those black spiky norman sea urchin things scare me!

2. I don't know any high ranking RTP officers, apart from the (much lower ranked but equally as unqualified) ones who stop me on my scooter because I am a farang and therefore must have done something wrong worth at least 200 Baht!

Another troll post. Why don't you troll elsewhere. Nothing you say is factual

Nothing factual?

"Mr Waiyawuth said a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile but that did not mean he could be included as a suspect.

DNA experts agree that DNA profiling demands a 99.9999% accurate match."

I didn't find the article that cited the cross examination questions by the prosecution, although I had quoted it in a previous post of mine:

"The prosecution asked Mr Waiyawuth if the third, incomplete, profile could belong to one of the suspects. He replied that only a quarter of the indicators from one of the suspects matched the partial profile.

The prosecution said: “So his participation cannot be ruled out.”

Mr Waiyawith replied: “No, but he cannot be included either.”"

A partial match doesn't provide positive proof that the DNA recovered and that of suspect are the same person, it also means that such a result can't be used to support the claim that it proves the suspect is not the source of the DNA.

I guess I can answer Mr Zero Cred here.

You post a load of nonsense as usual, trying to use smoke and mirrors to blur the fact that the prosecution has proven exactly nothing in their blatant attempt to frame these two Burmese scapegoats.

An analogy might be someone trying to defend their decision to write a completely misleading, if not totally false, review of a diving establishment on death island, pretending to be a novice diver that had used this establishment for their first foray into Scuba!

The establishment would, one assumes, remove the review in shame, after someone had pointed out the dishonesty of using such a blatant fabrication to promote their business (they did!). The writer, on the other hand, might try and pretend it never happened and knows nothing about it (he did, and still is).

You might be able to shed more light on this?

You might argue that this has nothing to do with the point in hand, but then again, neither does your post! The RTP case has been just such a blatant fabrication. Equally ill-thought out. Equally dishonest and corrupt but with much worse consequences. Would you agree?

AleG, Aleg, AleG still trying to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, the pigs in question being the RTP?

I reiterate:-

Scary indeed, in particular please note a comment he posted on 1st October 2015 @ 13.33:-

"I promise on my honor that will always be the wall to protect everyone I love and won't let anyone down."

Just who are these people he vows to protect and not let down?

......and what honour?

Seriously, you look at this attention seeking clown and the attack ring wearing "big ears" so-called cop. Well, who would trust these two throwbacks to defend the public and uphold law & order?

As I read there is a feeling that the accused in this trial may not be the real culprits , despite DNA showing their semen inside the girl's body .

However , one should not overlook that in this case Thailand is on trial and not just its Justice system .

Their semen inside the girl's body????? I thought that they found condoms nearby which supposedly matched the M2 DNA??????

They inadvertently admitted that they raped Hannah and so the logical conclusion is that they also killed both Hannah and David!!

You mean they inadvertently admitted they raped Hanna whilst they were being tortured by the RTP? What of the UK pathologist's findings that there was NO rape?

What semen? The semen that RTP claim they tested but cannot produce, just some replicated DNA that could have originated from a mouth swab, a hair follicle or many other easy to acquire samples from the B2?

I can't believe that there are shills still trying to push this tired old line and obfuscate even further.

Your post amounts to trolling, IMHO.

A wider angle for you..

Hannah-Witheridge-FB-v2-hoe-web.jpg

Thanks. But so you see the sharp edges/angles on that piece of wood that was lying there and the police picked up? And compare that to the other photos where the wood appears to have been rounded at the edges? And the angle that the wood is lying is different on the different pics. Makes me wonder why the police were happy to have that little bit of investigating filmed?

Personally I don't' think that there was a hammer in either picture and that the change in angle simply resulted in someone standing the hoe more upright against the fence and subsequently changing the perspective. I think the "rounding" of the edges is a trick of light.

Surely, what is more telling is that the alleged murder weapon is still to be found there, in the garden, caked in blood, how many hours after the crime was discovered? It was certainly long enough to assemble many film crews and journalists and to get that "bigwig" RTP showman to the island for his photoshoot!!

Should not the hoe have been bagged, tagged and taken away into evidence for safe storage and chain of custody process as soon as the first responders were on the scene? Certainly not hours later so that valuable evidence could possibly deteriorate or be compromised just so some RTP cretin can get his 15 minutes of fame?

A further example of how police work (sic) comes very much second to Thai politics and glory grabbing.

Well for one thing it was you who claimed I would eat my words like you knew something. Not me!

But to be totally honest, if what she has to say isn't brought out in court as evidence, then I really don't care what she has to say at all.

For every Psychiatrist who takes the stand to say the accused was crazy at the time of the murder, you will find another that will say he was not. For every Forensic Expert who takes the stand and says this happened or that, you will find another to say it didn't happen that way at all.

From what I understand the DNA Testing Equipment doesn't think or lie. It just prints out if it matches or it doesn't. Now it is up to the Defense Team to try and prove why it didn't do that, if it didn't.

Oh dear dear me....but is totally reliant on information supplied and where from !! When the Prosecution and/or RTP show how they obtained and passed on that same DNA I will believe the findings if it's shown to be above reproach...They haven't done that yet and I wonder why?! As it must be so easy to do if everything is above board.

Both coroners have taken accurate DNA profiles. There is a record Nige. They carried out Forensic grade Autopsy's. That is extremely thorough. I think you will find Hannah was identified by her DNA to avoid the family having to suffer the horror of the ID.

Sorry I think you misunderstood mate...I'm referring to the prosecutors DNA that doesn't seem to have made a appearance yet! I have know doubt about the authenticity of UK DNA collection etc. Goldbuggy was basing his comments on the defense discrediting the RTP DNA I thought...if I'm wrong about what he was saying so be it lol...not saying sorry

The defence doesn't really have to discredit the prosecutions DNA evidence. The RTP and prosecution have managed to do that all by themselves.

There have been many conflicting reports of what has been said...statements retracted...contradicted....and blatently false delivered in the courtroom as reported in media and then minutely detailed by the heavy hitters in this thread.

Stealth loonodingle mad aussie etc...care to re entertain said reports? If we had proper recording mechanisms this would all be put to bed but i do remember you blowing your trumpet over the last year about waiting for the trial. Sir...this trial is full of shit. I believe you are a pretty smart guy. Answer khun Matt's questions please.

Conflicting statements and reports, as you pointed out, reported by the media; more often than not originating with the defense team who obviously has an incentive to discredit the investigation as much as possible and inflate any little fact or event in their favour.

As for khunmatts questions, first of I have already answered the questions, secondly by his past interactions with Balo I determined that he is not interested in an honest discussion, thirdly the moderators have repeatedly reminded that the discussion is not about forum members, it's about a court case and finally his questions are based on lies some people have been maliciously spreading about me.

In short, he is all the attention he deserves.

there's one under oath

• From the trial: Under oath Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod stated he had spoken to the pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd Oct but after that had no further contact with him. The defense then produced a statement from the pathologist stating that Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod had made two separate trips to meet him in late Oct and another on 18th Nov. The pathologist’s statement confirmed they talked about the hair found in Hannah’a hand. When challenged about this Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod then admitted he had had further discussions with the pathologist but would not reveal what was said between them. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Aleg...that is perjury sir. You have to admit.

You're asking AleG about perjury?

You may as well ask the Thai Tourism Authority or a Koh Tao Trip Advisor review writer, they have about the same degree of subject knowledge and credibility.

That is pretty damn funny!!!

Wow. Maybe try again with your spectacles on? The hoe pictured on the beach is missing part of its business end. Top right corner Buggy..... Go have a look.

Oh you mean your photo with that big magnify glass over that corner to make it look like it is cut.

Look on Google for the real photos. They have plenty of true one there.

OMG!!!

the scene is looking different

No, it's exactly the same as before; the prosecution never claimed DNA from the defendants was found on the hoe. The only thing that has come from the independent testing of it is that it was, indeed, the murder weapon; so nothing new.

Meanwhile the actual DNA evidence the prosecution is basing their case on is being contested only indirectly by trying to discredit the process that yielded the results, instead of the actual results themselves; which I don't think carries much weight because it's not possible to by mistake or accident arrive at two DNA profiles matching the defendants.

The only thing that would produce a match is a deliberate faking of the results after the two defendants were arrested, and until they can provide any sort of evidence for such thing, IMO, the DNA evidence still stands.

Setting aside the fact that your opinion and mistaken views lack credibility again, we still only have the RTP's word that the DNS matched.

The only DNA supposedly left for the defence to test was that replicated by the RTP forensics team whose competence and professionalism has already been trashed by Thailand's foremost DNA expert!

With the replicated DNA, no one could tell whether it originated from a semen sample or sweat or a mouth swab so, yes, it would be extremely easy for the RTP to substitute the B2's DNA in this way. Remember that the samples had not been labelled correctly (thus destroying the possibility of anonymity or impartiality in the process), nor had the chain of custody process been followed, much less adhered to!

Of course in all this, if you still believe everything that comes out of the RTP camp (of which you are a clear follower) then you also probably think that the sun revolves around the earth, the earth pivots on Bangkok and that the earth is flat!!

certain people are unable to see the broken blade

hoe6.jpg

Certain people take too many deep dives without their oxygen tanks methinks!

hoehoe1.jpg

the original hoe below (notice the broken corner ) and hoe in the news clip above.

Leave the detective work to capable people; that is a leave in front of the blade, it's not a hole on the blade.

Finally you get it!!!!

This is what we have been asking for all along. For some capable detectives to to some work! Sadly, that completely disqualifies pretty much all of your beloved RTP.