newnative

My partner and I just sold our current house by Lake Mabprachan on Monday. Korean/Thai couple, buying as an investment to rent out. We are now in an almost finished, newly-built house in a new project, also near the lake. Our build started in February. The first phase of 5 houses are all sold, and about finished. The second phase of 25 more houses have started construction and all but a few have buyers. Yesterday, a young Chinese couple, one of the buyers of a phase 2 house, knocked on our door and asked to see our almost finished house. They seemed very nice and friendly, with good English. We've also had an older, retired Dutch couple also ask to tour our home and they ended up buying one of the remaining phase 2 homes, just beginning to be built so they can have some input on the design, materials, and finishes. All of the buyers we have met, so far, plan to live in their homes, rather than buying as an investment, in this new project. Our last house was sold after the new tax proposals were announced--as were the Chinese and Dutch buys I mentioned. It remains to be seen what the proposed tax changes for 2024 will mean for the housing and the real estate market down the road--if and when they take hold. Housing, of course, is a huge economic segment that contributes greatly to all the large industries that are part of it--everything from big and small appliances, electronics, plumbing and electrical products, lumber, concrete, tile, steel, lighting, furniture, landscaping, and all the other building materials industries, plus all the jobs involved with all of the businesses, including designing, engineering, constructing, marketing, and selling property. Should housing take a steep nosedive in Thailand in the coming months and into the new year, especially with the vital foreign buyer market, I know where I will be pointing my finger.

I guess I'm a rarity as I stayed in my same job, at the same location, my entire career. I was a library assistant at a community college library and I was in charge of the circulation and reserves desk, as well as assisting the students with research and locating material--many of the years were before the internet and Google. Our original circulation system still used punch cards. Also worked one evening a week and every 4th Saturday at the reference desk. It was a new community college branch and I started when it had been open less than a year--so it was an all-new staff. Nice with us all starting out fresh. It was a small staff of 6, with some part-timers, which I also liked. It was a 2 floor library and I was usually the only staff member manning the second floor, so I was pretty much my own boss, with nobody constantly looking over my shoulder--which I loved. I could structure my work flow every day, and mostly do my required tasks when I wanted, as long as the work got done. The library director's philosophy was to hire good people and leave them alone to do their work. Fine with me. I enjoyed working with the students--new ones arriving each year--and I liked the community college concept and just the whole environment. We had a great mix of students--kids right out of high school and also older folks--workers learning a new job or skill, mothers going back to school, now the kids were older, retirees trying a painting, creative writing, or horticulture class, etc . I think at one point the average student age was 29. Made for interesting, rewarding days. I've always enjoyed interior design and that was one of the 2-year programs at our campus branch of the community college. So, we got beautiful interior design books for the library and subscribed to all the related magazines, such as Architectural Digest and Interior Design. I helped process the new books so I could snare anything interesting first. I've loved reading all my life so my job involved something that I enjoyed--which was nice. One thing I liked with the job was writing, in the later years, a monthly book review column highlighting a few of the new popular fiction books the library had received, for the library's website. At one point I was offered a job at a small, department library at a US government agency in Washington, DC. It would have meant more pay but also a commute into the city each day, and the work duties did not look nearly as interesting as what I had--so I stayed. Another factor was the the very nice co-workers at the library. Some, whom I started with at the beginning, we're also still there when I retired; and others had been there 10, 15, or more years--I think a tribute to it being an enjoyable place to work. The salary was lousy--state worker--but the benefits were good and you could retire after 30 years and get a pension--also small but guaranteed for life and with COLAs built-in. I chose to retire in my early 50s--a bit burnt-out--but worked evenings part-time at the same job for another 5 years before moving to Thailand with my partner. During this period, with my days free, I started to put to work everything I had picked up reading all those interior design books and magazines, and I began dong some condo fix-up flips. When my partner and I hit Thailand in 2010, we decided to continue doing condo renovations--20 or so at this point--and now also a few houses, while he also works his legal job. It's been interesting and mostly fun, being sort-of a late bloomer with this semi-second career.

Exactly.

Not liking that sentence at all regarding the suspect 'resisting attempts to make him confess to the murder'. Wonder what those 'attempts' were. Hopefully not plastic bags put over his head. Also scandalous the part about the police now having to go back (WORK, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE) and actually take a look at the evidence. Wow. First we have to WORK attempting to get a confession out of him and when that wasn't successful, more WORK looking at boring evidence--if any was even collected. Where can I sign up for one of those 'inactive posts'? Nobody told me there would be work involved when I signed on. Hopefully we can just go through the motions before trying some more 'attempts' on him.

Do horrendous, law-breaking things as a government official and your punishment is being sent to an 'inactive post'--or selected as a government minister. Drive what looks like a pretty crap government car for personal use and get 50 years in jail. Just nuts.

Ditto for the US. Perhaps some of you have been following the saga of the poor landlord trying to evict an Airbnb tenant in California--not paying rent for months and months. In some cases landlords are forced to provide moving and relocation costs in order to remove a delinquent tenant--I thin the mentioned tenant is demanding that--what nerve after being so many months delinquent in rent! My sister had a terrible time evicting a female military tenant who went AWOL to Canada with a man she met. (Female, military, good steady job, you'd think a model tenant.) Had to hire a lawyer, show paperwork attempts to try to contact the tenant, wait a long time for a court date, finally get the court date, the tenant does not show--of course--so, with the tenant not there, the judge sets another court date. More legal expenses. Rinse and repeat. This went on for almost a year before my sister was finally allowed by the court to remove the tenant's possessions and re-rent the townhouse. Meanwhile, during all this time she was having to pay the mortgage, utilities, insurance, taxes, community HOA fees, etc., with no rental income coming in to offset the expenses. I would never be a landlord in America with things the way they now are.

Seems like he is not listening to anyone, 'experts' or otherwise. Giveaway scheme is awful, new tax proposals even worse. Plenty of ways to raise revenue, starting with all the valuable land masquerading as 'farm land' with a few banana plants on it, avoiding bigger taxes. Property taxes could also be raised moderately and bring in a lot more revenue. I know we paid a pittance last year and I wouldn't have minded paying more if they laid off taxing my imported income as a tradeoff.

So new, improved haircuts on the way, new, improved uniforms on the way, but nothing on the way for new, improved actual police work being done. I'm going to call total bull on the following, which I am shocked and awed that anyone could have uttered with a straight face: The adjustments are seen not just as a mere change in grooming standards but a step forward in enhancing the adaptability and responsiveness of the Thai police force amidst diverse and dynamic challenges.

Yes, your Thai tax man should only be interested in what comes into Thailand. And, again, his first question should be to anyone, not just you, how much of that money coming into Thailand is shielded DTA and how much is not.

It seems like if it is a 'great' tax office their first question to you should have been how much, if any, is this 480,000 baht shielded DTA income, not subject to Thai taxes.

Thank you for your kind comments, although I think not always as polite as I should be--I will try to work harder on that. I always look forward to Peterw42's take, and others, on real estate as well, and other topics. I find there are many posters, Sheryl comes to mind, and the late Ubonjoe, who take the time out of their lives to explain and provide information that I'm sometimes in need of, living in Thailand as a foreigner. I, for one, am quite thankful to have this Forum to call upon. An added, enjoyable bonus is the often lively, far and wide, sometimes wildly off-topic discussions on just about anything and everything. Fun.

But, my understanding, only liable on money sent to Thailand, where it now becomes assessable for taxes. Not sent to Thailand, not assessable, no tax owed in Thailand. Hope this interpretation is correct.

It's my understanding that I can, indeed, generate off-shore tax-free money while being a tax resident of Thailand--staying over 180 days--for tax purposes. For example, I earn $10,000 a year in stock dividends that are earned in the USA, and sent to my USA bank. I am under the impression that this money only becomes 'assessable' for tax if it is remitted to Thailand. Otherwise, Thailand can't touch it and collect taxes on it. Is this incorrect?

Thanks!

It is my understanding--so far--that only taxable income brought into Thailand is considered 'accessible' income, meaning income that can be got at by Thailand and subject to possible Thai taxes. Taxable, accessible income would be income sent to Thailand and not shielded by dual taxation agreements. So, if I brought in USA social security money, or Virginia state government pension money, both shielded by the USA dual tax agreement, the money is not considered 'accessible' income and not subject to Thai tax. There seems to be some uncertainty regarding pensions but I think state, not 'private', 'government' pensions are covered. Could be wrong, but that's my thinking at this point. One option I might consider is directly depositing my SS in a Thai bank, which now goes into my American bank. This would establish a verifiable paper trail of specific, shielded money. Other income that I might bring in, such as dividend income, is 'accessible' for tax and I could be liable to pay that tax. There seems to be several ways around that. I could transfer the money in and designate it as a 'gift' to my Thai partner. Apparently 10MB a year is allowed for that. Could be one option I would consider if that is actually the case and allowed--and the paperwork is not too onerous. There seems to be a number of deductions to use, should I decide to declare the taxable income brought in. It looks like I can deduct 190,000 baht right off the top since I am over 65. With the remaining amount, there seems to be another 150,000 baht deduction to lop off and that leaves you with a sum to be taxed on a sliding scale. Possibly some other deductions, as well, that I have not looked into. Once everything is figured in, the tax might be too much, depending on how much is brought in. But, I'm still liking the 'gift' thing. Each year I earn approximately $11,000 in dividend income on stock I own, plus some interest income. It is my understanding that this money can be subject to tax. But, it is my further understanding that this money only becomes eligible for tax if it is remitted to Thailand, where it now becomes 'accessible'. Left in the US, it is my current understanding that I would never be responsible to pay any Thai tax on it. It remains inaccessible for Thai tax purposes. If this is, indeed the case, i will not be sending any of this money to Thailand. I am one of the fortunate ones with a large chunk of cash already here in Thailand. I could theoretically probably live off this money for the rest of my life--or a good part of it--without bringing in any money from abroad. Left unanswered is whether the revenue department would come knocking on my door demanding an explanation on how I am supporting myself with no money coming in from broad--possibly with a deep dive into my finances; questioning when and where the money originally came from--and what type of money it was--interest, pension, social security, savings, etc. A lot of concerns like this are still up in the air. Anyway, that's where I am at this point with my thinking, some 94 pages in on this thread. I welcome any corrections or misconceptions on my part that I have made--I am definitely still learning. I am still in the dark on what paperwork that might start to be required--whatever methods, schemes one chooses for their types of income and remittances. I imagine to be determined at a later point.

Smug your middle name? 16,000 baht a month, minus 1,000 or 2,000 for condo fees, equals a net of 15,000 or 14,000 baht. (I couldn't tell from the post if the yearly 12,000 baht fees mentioned cover one or both condos.) I would guess he owns his own condo so no monthly outgo for rent for him each month, a big savings on the monthly budget. The condo fees cover condo project repairs and upkeep on the property, he would just need to be responsible for anything in the unit, some of which might be covered with the security deposit if the repairs are due to something the tenant did. In my experience renting condos, that was the case with most of the repairs--project or tenant responsible. In any case, he has some income coming in each month to supplement whatever monthly retirement he gets. 14 or 15,000 baht a month might not seem like much for some, but it certainly helps quite a bit if your monthly retirement is in the 40,000 to 70,000 baht range. When my partner and I first came to Thailand are monthly income just barely met the 65,000 baht a month immigration requirement--we would have greatly welcomed and extra 14 or 15k. I've been communicating with a retiree who only gets American social security, which gives him around 49,000 baht a month. He tells me he and his partner can live on that but they have nothing left at the end of the month for savings, emergencies, etc. Had they something similar to Peterw42's setup, that extra rent money could be banked each month to help build up a security nest egg. Obviously, there are lots of ways to invest your money--and many do multiple ways--but I think it all comes down to what you are comfortable with and what works for you, not some random, cynical commentating poster not in possession of all the particulars.

My reaction, too--what nonsense. I'm happy to tell anyone my hobbies, man, woman, or green Martian. Strange just the deflection.

Guess I was thrown off by his statement: 'Say I have 10 million baht in my retirement funds...'. In any case, I am not following his backstory, whatever it is. Wouldn't change anything I posted.

There are always lessons to be learned in real estate--and my partner and I have learned, sometimes the hard way, some of them. One lesson, never buy off-plan from an unknown developer, a small private developer, a developer with little or no track record, or a developer with unknown or possibly sketchy funding. We did--once. The project got built but, in hindsight, it very well might not have because it was the unknown, small developer's very first project, with unknown funding--checking off all of the 'no-no' boxes. We got lucky but it could have been an experience like yours. We have learned, if you can't find out much about a developer beforehand, walk away and look for something, hopefully, safer, such as a completed project. If we ever bought off-plan again, it would be with a large, well-financed, publicly-traded Thai company with a long, positive track record of completed projects, which we could go look at. Even when you think you've covered all your bases, a bad outcome can happen. We had a large foreign developer in Pattaya, with a number of completed projects, go belly-up during covid. It's anyone's guess where he is now; I believe somewhere out of the country. Also, Pattaya sports a half-completed highrise waterfront condo with 'issues' that has been sitting for 13 years waiting for a 'finish it or tear it down' decision--another project we might have bought into off-plan but it was, thankfully, too expensive for our budget at the time. (Timing can also be important.) I'm sorry to hear about your experience; it would be great if the publicity spurs some action with the Phuket developer.

I think there are a number of people in Pattaya, like Peterw42, who successfully own rental properties for income, both houses and condos. On Monday, we sold our house on the Darkside to an investor, who will rent it out. He also bought the house across the street from us, also to rent out. They are definitely out there--the last house we sold before the latest one also sold, to a Thai investor, as did a number of our condo sales, to both Thai and foreign investors. On this forum, you often hear more negative than positive comments, especially when it comes to real estate. Generally that's true for about anything--people are more likely to complain than praise something. Just human nature. Our buyer was driving a brand new BMW X7 so it seems he is doing ok but I doubt he has, or will ever, post here to share his positive real estate experiences. My partner and I have had several condos that we rented out. Never had trouble finding tenants, some good, some not so good--but all paid the rent. In the end, we decided we were impatient types, and we would rather take a big immediate profit selling them, rather than wait for years of rent to add up to the same amount of profit. So, we have been doing that--buy, fix-up, sell rather than rent it, and move on. Different strokes. The OP apparently has 10 MB lying around all day eating bon bons and watching Netflix. I think he needs to put some of it to work earning some money for him--he certainly doesn't need 10MB for his everyday living expenses for the next year or two--at 50,000 baht a month he only needs 1.2 MB to fund the next 2 years. In his shoes, I would be conservative and not put everything in one basket. He could certainly look for a rental along the lines of what Peterw42 mentioned, as one option. A good suggestion from another poster was buying dividend stocks that pay a healthy dividend--something my partner and I are also doing. I think he could safely buy a rental condo and put at least 3MB into dividend stocks and still have a healthy cash cushion. If he leaves 5MB in cash, he'll be safely funded for the next 8.3 years at 50,000 baht a month, not counting what dividend or rental income comes in during that period. If he does nothing, his 10MB runs out in 16.6 years, drawing the same 50,000 baht a month--likely drawing more a month down the road with inflation--and he could also be drawing more each month now, as well, reducing the funded years. The rental condo could, at some point, be his paid-off roof over his head--a big plus, I think, if he plans to be in Thailand long-term. Short-term, I would skip real estate. (One hard rule my partner and I had, we never bought a condo rental we wouldn't live in ourselves, if push came to shove--perhaps something to consider, as well, before any purchase.) There is some risk with stocks--be aware. With the rise in interest rates this year, some safer choices in the way of bonds, CDs, etc. are now out there as an option that, I believe, are paying interest in the 5% range. I don't know much about them but perhaps some other posters can enlighten us--or offer some other investment suggestions. My partner and I also now have some cash just lying around eating bon bons.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Off topic, I know but does anybody know when the new BYD Seal suv will arrive in Thailand? I know the sedan model is being introduced here now. Gorgeous styling, from the videos my partner and I have seen. We like the Atto 3 but want something a little bigger. Thanks!

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According to Google, and several other sources, the high season in Thailand is November to March. One source put it nicely: Thailand has three distinct seasons: the high season, the hot season, and the rainy season. In most of Thailand, the high season lasts from November to early March, while the hot season is from March to May and the rainy season lasts from May to October.