newnative

So interesting! Yes, I thought that was VT3 under construction in the distance. Lots of changes. Thanks so much for posting these.

Thanks for posting the photo. My partner and I used to live in View Talay 3 when we first came to town in 2010. I remarked in another thread how much Pattaya has changed and grown in those 12 years--so many highrises had not been built in 2010--not to mention so much else, as well.

It's not that unusual. My partner and I have lived in Pattaya for 11 years. We walked on Walking Street exactly once, when we first arrived. Since then we have never been there except to cut through Walking Street a few times by car during the day when traffic was backed up. Ditto for Soi 6. We know they are there but neither interests us. We have other interests and spend our time in other areas of Pattaya--of which there are many.

My answer is my partner and I haven't found anywhere we like better--and we've been about everywhere except Issan. We definitely want a beach town. We started in Rayong by the beach, found the beach area was, for us, too far from anything. Visited Phuket and some other beach towns in the south--nice to visit but we didn't want to live in that area of Thailand. Ditto for Chiang Mai. Found Samui nice but too isolated. Visited Hua Hin several times to compare it with Pattaya. Pattaya won--for us. Hua Hin might win for others. We like Bangkok and have a Bangkok getaway condo but we don't want to live there full-time. Pattaya is ideal for us--less than 2 hours away and the motorway now has the extra lane they have been working on. Today we left center city Bangkok around 10am and were back in Pattaya by 11:30. We like the very extensive housing choices to rent or to own, both in houses and condos. And, we also like the variety of neighborhoods, each with its own vibe. We've tried most neighborhoods and are now enjoying life on the Darkside--which also has plenty to offer. Of course, we also like the extensive shopping and restaurant choices, the good health care choices, the movie theaters and other entertainments, the proximity to two airports, and the large and diverse expat community. Perhaps there are 'plenty of nicer places to live' but Pattaya, itself, is plenty nice for us.

I wanted to re-check so I went back to the other thread and found the data, which was posted by Kinyara. The data is from the National Office of Statistics, which gathers data from multiple sources. Their data says Chinese tourist spending in Thailand was 531 billion baht in 2019. Chinese tourist arrivals in 2019 were 61% independent travelers and 39% in group tours.

This data is from 2018 and is data for the world, not Thailand, specific. Nevertheless, if 44% are in tour groups, that would leave 56%, a majority, not traveling in tour groups. 14% of these non-tour group people are lumped in an unspecified 'Other' category.

I use TAT for tourist numbers. TAT says there were 10.9 million Chinese tourists in 2019. There were two different sources for Chinese tourist spending in 2019. One was for, I believe 523 billion baht and the other, Statista, was for 543 billion. I usually use Google. Or, TAT statistics, which cover the major countries with tourists visiting Thailand, not just China. Google says tourists from the Middle East each spent on average 75,000 baht a day in Thailand, while tourists from China spent only 48,000 baht. Recently a poster was quick to say that 48,000 baht doesn't seem like much. Certainly, 75,000 baht seems like a lot more. But, would you personally choose to receive 10.9 million checks for 48,000 baht each or 100,000 checks for 75,000 baht each? ( Middle East tourists were less than 100,000 in 2019 vs. 10.9 million Chinese.) I'd take the 10.9 million checks for 48,000 baht each, thank you very much--and Thailand wants them, too. TAT might be wildly optimistic about the future but seems more accurate with actual visitor numbers. For example, it recorded the drop in tourist numbers in 2014, the year of the coup, rather than padding the numbers to make the generals look good. It did not try to inflate the horrific international tourist numbers for 2021--less than 500,000--which gave TAT a black eye. It has also noted that the numbers for two places--Singapore and Australia--dropped from 2015 to 2019. I've been finding that posters like to question any statistics that are posted that they don't like or agree with, as you have done, while almost never providing any statistics themselves. I welcome your stats.

Yes, I will believe statistical data over one person's observations.

It was posted by another member on a different thread--I think the thread titled something like "How are the bars, restaurants and other businesses doing in Pattaya'.

So, from a previous post, teeny tiny numbers so far. I looked into it and might have been interested in it but they were very rigid regarding the requirements. I have invested plenty in Thailand already--more than the requirement--but they wouldn't accept my past investments. If they are going to meet their goal they need to be much more flexible with the requirements, and re-think some of them.

I remember the roundabout. I thought it worked pretty well. You did have to sometimes wait a bit before entering the roundabout but that's also the case at the Dolphin roundabout. I'd rather wait a bit to enter the roundabout than wait what seems like several minutes for the traffic light there now--often you're sitting there waiting at the red light and no traffic is going through on the green. In my opinion it was a perfect place for a roundabout and should have been given more time.

'...had political connections.' And, likely still does. So, off he skips.

Boo hoo.

Anybody else's eyes glaze over while reading TAT's plans?

Good to know. If an agent can do that it would certainly be helpful for some.

I agree with #1, but with #2 and #3, why would your passport be more secure with an agent, especially since you are adding a third party? You, or the agent, mails the passport to the American Embassy. I don't see how the agency would be more secure with the mailing. With the return of your new passport, the Embassy mails it and you include a 100 baht bank draft with the application to handle the passport being mailed back to you--so, again, you have the possibility of lost mail whether you use an agent or do it yourself. My comments only apply to American passports--with other countries the agent may be able to hand deliver and pick up the passports. I just sent in my American passport for renewal and I had to pay for the new passport by using a government website. The application requires that I print out a confirmation email, that I received at my email address after payment, verifying that I have paid the fee. This printout needs to be included with the application--not sure how that would be handled with an agent.

One key question would be exactly when the order was given to abandon ship. I suspect the Admiral may be proven incorrect.

And, very well-deserved.

I admire him for at least recognizing the problem and attempting to do something but I doubt anything will come of it. Some time ago I think there was going to be a crackdown on the horrendously noisy motorcycles--so annoying even with closed windows. That went nowhere.

I certainly hope not--as there certainly will not be an 'upgrade' to Pattaya's infrastructure to handle the percentage of that many tourists choosing to visit Pattaya. Pattaya could barely handle the traffic with the 2022 tourist numbers.

Teach him a hard lesson.

Split the 100 million with the families of the dead servicemen, who died due to the incompetence of the Navy. Leave the cursed ship where it is.

Pattaya's roads and improvements to public transportation will likely not be ready.

Possibly true of other areas but, pre-covid, Pattaya had become busy year-round, with the large influx of Asian tourists who were traveling year-round, not just during the winter months. These numbers, from China, India, and the rest of Asia, dwarfed the numbers from Europe and North America. Also adding numbers, the increasing visitors from Bangkok on weekends, coming to their getaway condos. There was no longer a 'low season' and a 'high season'. Instead it was more 'busy season' and 'busier season'.

I agree. Thailand had around 11 million tourists in 2022. Pattaya seemed quite busy in the latter half of the year and there were lots of traffic jams. The road system as currently configured, with curb parking still offered on the major roads, just can no longer handle the increasing amount of traffic, especially on weekends when all the Bangkokians come to town. My partner and I have rearranged our routine to try not to be in the congested areas on weekends or when special events are going on but even during the week some areas are traffic-clogged. The city has been doing drainage work all over town and, while needed, adds no lanes and does nothing to alleviate the traffic jams. Pattaya remains with too few traffic lanes to handle the ever-increasing traffic as it continues to rapidly grow. Meanwhile, the clueless city added a parking lane to Beach Road, making that road even more traffic-clogged, with one fewer traffic lanes. Of the three underpasses planned for Sukhumvit Road, only one has been built. So, that's the situation at 11 million. What's it going to be at 20 million? Or if Thailand gets back to 40 million at some point?