newnative

You're trying mighty hard to get that square peg to fit into the round hole. Residency in a country is a completely separate issue but you keep trying to make it relevant to dual pricing for non-residents and non-citizens, when it absolutely is not. Western dual pricing gets a pass in your book because there's a possibility, however remote if not impossible, for the tourists to become local residents. As I said before, ludicrous. You continue to ignore basic reality--non-Euro citizens--say an American and a Thai--going on a short trip to Paris are not going to establish local residency in order to get the same local resident admission price to the Louvre. So, both the American and the Thai will pay a higher price, not because they are American and Thai, but, rather, because they are not citizens of the EU. It's not dual pricing aimed at any specific country, rather, it is one price for citizens and another price for all non-citizens, whatever country they are from. That is, plain and simple, dual pricing based solely on nationality, in this case neither of them being of EU nationality. And, of course, being short-term tourists, not residents. I think you are incorrect when you say western dual pricing is never based on nationality alone. The example I gave on college tuition is certainly based on nationality alone. You're a non-citizen from a foreign country, you pay a higher price at some US colleges--that's based on nationality alone. Not American nationality? You pay the foreign rate. Cut and dried. It's true that there's the possibility of establishing residency--but that's a totally separate issue from the initial dual pricing by nationality alone--and if a foreign student doesn't establish residency or is unable to, the dual pricing remains by nationality alone.

If you're feeling 'exploited' I suggest you vote with your pocketbook and avoid places with dual pricing.

I think you're just getting tangled up in semantics. It's two different prices, whatever you want to call one of them. However you slice it, one person is paying "X" amount based on certain criteria and another person is paying "Y" amount, also based on certain criteria. That's dual pricing. And, if you add a third person paying "Z" amount, that's triple pricing. And so on.

You're simply deflecting, and rather ludicrously, with your emphasis on 'local residency'. How many American tourists on a one-week jaunt to Paris are going to be able to qualify as local residents? Or Asian tourists on their short visits? Slim to none, I should think--I'm an American and I know I'm not a 'local resident', and neither is my Thai spouse. If I show up at the Louvre in 2026, with my non-EU nationality and, of course, no local residency, I will be charged a higher price than a citizen of the EU, as will my Thai nationality spouse. That's dual pricing by nationality--EU nationality, or local resident, one price, any other nationality, and not a local resident, a higher price. Can't get much simpler. Are you 'X' nationality? You get this price. If you're not 'X' nationality, you get a different price. Dual pricing by whether you do, or don't have the nationality, as a visitor, to obtain the lower price. Ditto for the Canadian ski resort example. Canadian nationals are charged one price, USA nationals living in the US and visiting the resort, a higher price. That's also dual pricing based on nationality--you're either Canadian nationality or you're not. And, dual pricing by nationality is certainly not 'very rare'--in the west or anywhere else. In one of my posts I mentioned higher prices for foreign students at the college where I worked--quite common in the US, especially with state universities. Again, leaving aside the 'local residency' deflection, you again have dual pricing based on whether you have a qualifying nationality. If you're not of American nationality, you pay a higher price. I don't have a problem with most dual pricing, though, for the reason I gave in my earlier post.

I couldn't find any references to what the dual pricing would be at the Louvre. The most recent info on Google that I saw stated that the new pricing would be announced in early 2026. But, in any case, it is not a 'false comparison'. Dual pricing is dual pricing. It remains that the Louvre is planning to charge dual pricing based on nationality. The poster I was responding to stated that it would be difficult to find any dual pricing in western countries based on nationality, with the implication that this was something pretty much limited to Thailand, and perhaps some other Asian countries, such as Japan. I found it was not difficult at all. I remain unconvinced that there is anything wrong with the concept of dual pricing by nationality. To me, it is fair and makes perfect sense when it is applied to public things, such as museums, parks, etc. that are maintained through the taxes of the citizens. Why shouldn't the citizens get a smaller entrance fee that recognizes the monetary support that they contribute on a yearly basis, while Joe International Tourist, who has not provided any financial support at all, is asked to pay a higher fee as his contribution to maintaining something that is there for his enjoyment? That's basically why the Louvre is proposing dual pricing based on nationality--maintenance. It is faced with a massive renovation that is needed in order to keep the museum open and functioning. In order to pay the huge price tag for the renovation, non-Euro citizens will be asked to pay a higher price for admission. I see nothing wrong with that--nor a higher admission for non-Thai citizens for it's citizen-maintained public things. Someone likely will post that local non-Thai citizens do contribute, too, through different taxes that they pay year-round, such as sales taxes. Totally true, and in a perfect world they should also get a reduced admission. I think some facilities do recognize non-Thais who present a pink card. For the rest, file it in the very large 'life isn't fair' folder.

It really isn't 'difficult to find comparable examples' of dual pricing by nationality in other countries. It only took me a couple of minutes to find examples of dual pricing in some Italian museums, based on nationality. The Louvre museum in Paris is planning a higher entrance fee for non-Euro citizens in 2026--that will be based on nationality, as well. According to Google, some Canadian ski resorts have one price for Canadians and a higher price for Americans--that's also nationality based. I'm sure I've just scratched the surface with my quick search and there's other examples out there. Although many posters seem to think dual pricing only happens in Thailand, clearly that is not the case. But, take heart, folks! At least we aren't in Venice, where apparently there is even dual pricing to go to the toilet.

Get over it. As I said, dual pricing is not unique to Thailand. The state community college where I worked in Virginia has not just dual pricing but triple--one price for in-state students, a bigger price for out-of-state students, and a still bigger price for foreign students. With your flawed reasoning, Virginia is a RACIST state, although race has absolutely nothing to do with the pricing. Rather, it's solely based on legal residency, no matter what race you may be. The MRT in Bangkok has a lower price for senior citizens. Racist? No. Not based on race, but age. I currently have a senior MRT card so it is also not based on nationality--at least for now. Should that change, it would then be based on nationality and age. Still not racist. Examples of dual pricing with senior discounts can be found everywhere, not just Thailand. Also student discounts and discount prices for children. Should I blow my stack and cry RACIST! that a child is getting into X for a cheaper admission price than me? Or, should I say, good, that makes sense. Thailand's proposed casinos might charge a steep entrance fee for Thai citizens, while foreign passport holders would get in free. Racist? No, dual admission prices based on nationality--in this case being of Thai nationality would cost you much more, rather than less. Would this dual pricing be fair? In this case I would say no, but it's Thailand's ball so they make the rules, and I do understand the idea is to keep Thai citizens who can't afford to gamble out of the casinos. Some museums and other attractions give a cheaper rate for groups touring than to individuals. For example, the UK Parliament charges 27 pounds for a single adult admission. But, if you're an adult with a group, you pay 23 pounds. Racist? No. Admission price based on numbers. Both Disney World and Universal Amusement Park have discount rates for Florida residents. Racist? No, again based on state residency--perhaps they're getting a price break for putting up with all those tourists. One can choose to see dual pricing as discriminatory and get all hot and bothered about it but I've found there is usually, in most cases, a reason for the way the pricing has been done. Dear 'ol Dad used to say, "Don't sweat the small stuff." Good advice, and dual pricing in Thailand definitely qualifies as 'small stuff', in my book. But, feel free to wallow.

Nothing is going over my head, and certainly not your incorrect, lame argument. Thai is not a 'race'. Thai is a nationality. A Thai citizen, whether they are local or 'from the other end of the country', gets a break on the price of admission at the national park near you. Non-Thai citizens, of whatever race, whether local or 'from the other end of the country', are charged a higher price, not because of their race but because they are not Thai citizens. Not racist. Not a big deal. Got it now?

Hope their slogan doesn't turn into "Not done, not doing, not continuing" but I suspect that will be the case.

500 baht is a total joke. Add at least two zeros to that figure and apply the fine whether a patient dies or not. All the fines are ridiculously low and don't serve as any sort of deterrent.

No. Only short-term rentals of less than a month are illegal.

I have no idea but, for sure, not Sterling Cooper.

I agree. As you point out, it's certainly not just found in Thailand. There are lots of examples in the US-- everything from reduced park rates for state residents to higher tuition for foreign students to discounted tickets to Disney World for Florida residents. Standard practice and no big deal.

Just one reason of many why I hate organized religion.

Dial--and, yes I wish everybody did.

Did not bother to seek out the video but I think it's likely that 'antics' should replace 'chaos' and 'amusement' should replace 'outrage' in the headline. Pity I was not at the restaurant--sounds like it was a fun evening.

And, thank goodness for that.

Yes, hit 'em in the pocketbook.

Guilty on all counts.

The answer is very few--which is why traditional pensions--at least in the US--have been largely eliminated, as companies realized these pensions were costing way too much money, with people living much longer than they used to. I am one of the lucky ones who has a traditional pension, from the state of Virginia. I'm sure, at age 73, that I have already collected far more than what I contributed, since I retired at age 54 with 30 years of service. I remember, years ago, my Dad showing me his retirement benefits. He was a US federal employee with really a gold-plated traditional pension that even included medical care. He showed me his retirement statement that showed what he had contributed to his pension in the years he worked. At that time, he had only been retired for 5 or 6 years when he had exhausted his contributions. He went on to live into his 95th year and was actually retired for more years than he worked. When he died, my Mom still received 50% of his benefits as he had selected that option when he first retired. She lived until 101. I think earlier in this thread someone suggested that pensions be eliminated and we all fund our retirements privately with 401s and the like. I thank my lucky stars that I am not privately funding my retirement, as I likely would have run out of any retirement money I socked away long ago.

That's the problem--all the fines are way too low and need one or two zeros added on the end--in this case two, The increased fines would help pay for a crew of traffic police to enforce the traffic laws.

Thanks!

Me, neither. As always, I doubt too many are 'outraged'. Just more blown up hype. With the photo I saw posted, there were only 133 comments on the guy's webpage. In a city of over 11 million, that's quite tiny. Tiny also is the 'outrage'.

Your post is the typical spiel that's spouted ad infinitum on the Forum--by lots of posters like you who don't even live in Pattaya--and likely have never visited any of the many nice, new Pattaya housing developments to see what is actually now being built and who is actually living in them. I live in a Pattaya villa project, and lived in two home projects before this one, have met some of my neighbors in all of them, and have met many more couples and families who came to view the 3 previous houses I sold, as well as more than a dozen condos. What I post is what I actually see and live, here in person. Of course, some foreigners do marry women they meet at a bar--true not just for Pattaya--but I'm not seeing older farang/younger Thai woman as a high percentage in the housing projects that I have lived in here in Pattaya. In my current housing development of 28 homes, maybe two or three that I know of have farang husbands with younger Thai wives. As I said in my previous post, it's a UN--with families from a variety of countries. The families I know of in the project sending their kids to international schools are from China, Russia, and Israel and both spouses are from those countries. One of the Chinese couples that I met told me that they moved to Thailand specifically to send their two children to an international school to get a better, more rounded education than they would get in China. In any case, whether it's a high or low percentage is neither here nor there and matters not a bit. And, it has no bearing whatsoever on the points I was making in my post. That also applies to your second post regarding mortgages--which repeats the same distorted perceptions as your first post. The reasons why buyers are paying cash for their homes is also beside the point. The big takeaway--which you ignored in both your posts--is the large number of diverse international buyers moving to Pattaya who have the means to pay cash for properties, whether condo or villa, costing 10MB and up--in some cases way up. That's the meat of the story and what you should have focused on. Obviously, if they have $300,000 or more in ready cash to purchase a home they could choose to live lots of places besides Pattaya. Yet, here they are, choosing Pattaya. Me, too. You, and any skeptical others, might educate yourselves a bit by viewing some of the many Youtube videos showing new housing projects and new house tours of the projects now being built in Pattaya. My spouse and I like to watch them when we are exercising to keep updated on what's new and we are continually amazed at both the number of new projects, the high-end design, and, in many cases, the quite high price points. Take a gander and you'll see what I am talking about.

There was little in the way of 'high culture' in the US town I lived in, either. But, it was relatively safe, there were movie theaters, restaurants, good health care, good shopping, good recreation, a fairly wide variety of housing, and there was a big city and an international airport not too far away. Ditto for Pattaya--except it's safer here, with better year-round weather, and an even better variety of housing--at more reasonable prices. Anybody who states, 'If there was no sex business, Pattaya would wither on the vine', clearly is clueless and needs to do some exploring. And, it's actually the opposite, by the way. If the sex business disappeared, Pattaya would be doing even better. You only need to look at all the new development that has been built and is still being built--it's not for sex tourists. The big, new water park I mentioned in my earlier post? It's geared mostly to Thais and other Asian visitors. Probably a dozen new car dealerships have opened since I arrived in Pattaya--sex tourists aren't keeping them open, or T21, Central Festival, all the big box stores, the resorts, water parks, etc., etc. If you venture from the small area you seem to frequent, you'll find there's a whole 'nother world out there--from dozens and dozens of very nice, new housing developments to, according to Google, eighteen international schools--including Regents and Rugby--with a new one, Highgate, scheduled to open in 2026. Spouse and I drove around Rugby for the first time a few days ago and we were super-impressed--even after some 14 years living here we are still discovering new stuff. While you're exploring and you need a cup of coffee and a pastry, check out the huge Nitan coffee shop/cafe on Sukhumvit. Here's a question for any deep thinkers out there. If, according to the consensus of Forum posters, Pattaya's population is 40% sex tourists, 40% sex workers, 10% gold chain snatchers, and 10% poorly-trained brutal bar bouncers, how in the world does Pattaya have enough students to fill 18 international schools--with another one on the way? Perhaps those Pattaya population figures need some adjustment and, in reality, there's lots and lots of families--most living apparently nowhere near where the Forum posters are. One of the international school buses picks up three or 4 kids in our project so I can vouch for there being actual international kids living in Pattaya. I have never heard of 'C1, C2, and DE' but, judging from your post, I could probably guess that they are references to maybe economic or educational levels--and I assume you think Pattaya expats are sorely lacking in one or the other--or both. Perhaps you should, once again, get out more and meet some actual expats living away from the non-tourist areas--that's where lots of them are. We have expat friends who worked, or are still working, at a wide variety of occupations. Doctors, lawyers, maybe even an Indian chief. Most run from middle class to wealthy. Several own multiple properties here. With mortgages hard to get for expats, most pay cash for their homes. The project where we live is fairly typical of new projects in Pattaya. It has 28 homes, most costing around 10 to 12MB. There are lots of new Pattaya projects in this price range, by the way, and a number of new projects with higher prices in the 20 to 30MB range--and, some higher than that. So, with no mortgages, the owners in the project we live at had at least around $300,000 in ready cash to make their house purchase--not exactly destitute. Not exactly living in a fan room--although that's the impression you might get from the Forum--that every expat in Pattaya is living a life of quiet desperation in a fan room--when they're not sitting on a bar stool at 9am drinking. The development we live at is a regular United Nations. We have multiple owners from the US, China, and Russia, and also owners from Israel, Dubai, India, Britain, Ireland, Holland, and Italy, that I know of. Likely other countries, as well. Most living ordinary, normal lives, doing ordinary, normal things. Probably not all that different from what their lives were like where they came from--I know mine isn't. But, likely in a nicer house and enjoying better year-round weather.