Arkady

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Few years back, I saw some Ministerial regulation to increase the citz fee to THB 10,000/- but I think it was never enforced.

Not sure, arkady plz confirm

As far as I recall they increased the maximum fee possible to 10,000 in the most recent amendments to the Act a few years ago, which otherwise had no impact on naturalisation, but, as you point out, they have yet to implement the increase.

15 hours ago, sinthavee said:

Thank you DrJoy.

i applied for my PR through BOI one stop service on the last day of deadline(I think it was on 3rd May 2003). After that there was no scheme of PR through BOI.

At that time the fees for PR was about 50,000 Baht & for spouse /child was 25,000 Baht each. However, within a few months of my application, the fee was increased to 194,600 Baht & almost 100,000 Baht respectively.

 I got my PR in June 2006(had to pay 194,600 Baht fee). I didn’t take PR for my wife.

I was eligible to apply for Thai Citizenship in 2011(5 years holding the Pr), but I applied  only on 20th July 2018. I had an interview at the National intelligence office around mid November 2018. 

My BORA interview/singing the Thai National Anthem & Phra Bharami was on 21st Sep 2020. After the interview and singing of 2 songs, I was told by the Head of the interview committee that I had cleared it.

I was notified & took  the oath of allegiance on 27th July 2021. 
RG publication of names of  78 people (approved to obtain Thai Citizenship) including mine was published in the RG on 24th Nov, 2021.

I got my Naturalisation Certificate & other relevant papers from SB on 29th Dec, 2021. This is the journey so far for my Thai Citizenship.

i will get my Thai ID card on 7th January from my Khet office.

Then I will apply for Thai passport.

 

Hope, the above answers your query.

 

I got my PR when it was 50,000 and 2,000 for the application fee.  I charged it to my company and, to my surprise, there was no obection but I probably wouldn't have dared, if it was 194,000 by then.  At the time you mention there was a big uplift in visa fees across the board, as they hadn't been increased in about 20 years.  Also the financial hurdles for retirement and marriage visa extensions were jacked up substantially.  Now we are nearly another 20 years on, there could be another big hike in the offing, particularly since they have starting coming up with pie in the sky schemes for upgrading the financial quality of long stay foreigners.  However, the cost of PR still seems pricy even in today's money.  Citizenship is perversely still a huge bargain and they can only double the current fee without amending the Nationality Act.

On 12/28/2021 at 4:39 PM, jayson1 said:

Not to revive an old post, but I expect to soon hear from my Special Branch Case Officer that I can collect the naturalisation certificate (some group as sinthavee). I have already visited the District Office who say that the document from the Ministry of Interior has arrived and booked me in for 14 January at 9am as this is the earliest slot available.

 

I understand from Section 5 of the Nationality Act that I became a Thai citizen as of the date of publication in the Government Gazette (24 November). I see from others that they have cancelled their visa/permission to stay after getting their ID card.  The issue is that my Thai visa/permission to stay expires this week. So the question is (a) what proof does Thai immigration require to cancel the visa, and (b) what happens if if I go to immigration to cancel the visa AFTER the date it has expired even though my visa was still valid on the date I legally became a Thai citizen. Would I be fined? Has anyone done this before?

 

NOTE: yes, I realise I could have extended the visa a few weeks ago, but it it is a bit strange to extend the visa after I became a Thai citizen. 

If you don't expect to travel overseas or be in any situation where you have to show your passport with valid visa, such as checking in to local hotel or applying for credit card, you could wing it and just wait for your ID card without dealing with Immigration which I note is an inconvenient trip for you. You would not be doing anything illegal as you are legally Thai but could encounter some hassles without a valid visa or ID card, particularly, if you are stopped at random by cops or  something.  But even for most traffic scrapes the cops only ask for your driving licence. I don't think it is necessary to cancel your visa, particularly if it has expired by the time you get your ID card. That might encourage them to try to charge overstay.  PRs are a different matter.  They obviously have to return their alien and residence books to Immigration.

16 hours ago, sinthavee said:

Today at 12:45 PM I reached Police HQ, but was not allowed to park inside although some spots were vacant. I was advised to park at Siam Paragon. Parked at Siam Paragon and reached SB office at 1:12PM & I could come out from there collecting my 1.Thai Nationality Certificate,

2.Letter informing approval of NC, giving the serial number & name of the approved person, asking the approved person to come, pay 500 Baht & collect the NC as per schedule, agreed by the case officer.

3. Attested RG copies(3 sets with applicable page) with covering letter from BORA signed by Deputy Director and addressed to Chief of SB.

3.Application copy for the NC along with the officer mentioning that they received 500 Baht payment for the NC and the NC was issued.
4.Receipt for 500 Baht

 

 I could come out of SB at 1:25 PM & drove to my Khet office. Met the officer issuing Thai ID at 2:30 PM & he checked all my documents & immediately told that ID can’t be done today (obviously all of us know that). My purpose was to take appointment for ID issue. As their registrar will be on leave tomorrow  & the first date available was on 7th Jan morning at 8:30 AM, I agreed for that. Officer told that owner of house & another witness (Both Thais & need to be present & sign as witness). 
 

Today’s experience was very good and all officers were friendly.

 

Congrats. Happy New Year for a happy new Thai. 

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes South Africa data more reliable than the data coming out of the UK? I agree it looks positive there and hope that will be replicated here but its not yet a slam dunk. 

 

UK hospital data is broken down into variants and published on a daily basis. On the 27th it was 407 and the latest on the 28th is now up to 668 hospitalizations for Omicron with 49 deaths, you will find details in the reports. These however are only the admissions that were actually sequenced, not everyone is sequenced.

 

For general covid admissions which include delta and Omicron plus incidental admissions then the best source for that recently is the COE of NHS Providers Chris Hopson, read his twitter thread here but I suggest you go to link as the thread is quite long

 

These are a few snippets

 

London data, in particular, is important as it’s been the clear epicentre of omicron up to now. Number of covid-19 patients in London hospitals has grown by 45% from 20 Dec to 27 Dec. There's currently a 14 day doubling time (1,360 on Dec 13 to 2,640 on Dec 27)

 

Talking to trust chief executives this morning, what’s very interesting is how many are talking about number of asymptomatic patients being admitted to hospital for other reasons and then testing positive for covid. Some are describing this as ‘incidental covid’

 

Trusts not, at moment, reporting large numbers of patients with severe Covid type respiratory problems needing critical care. Also not needing to massively increase use of oxygen. Both of which we saw in last Jan’s delta variant peak + very difficult critical care surge

Brother-in-law in South Africa, who is 76 and diabetic, caught COVID and recovered after a few days of fever, runny nose, cough and sore throat.  He has had 2x Pfizer, the second shot nearly 6 months ago.  They bother to do the sequencing for most cases there but assumed it was omicron.

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

That order is for Thai citizens only not for `Aliens`

 

Joe, please correct if I am wrong

The order specifies only ID cards and tabien baan.  Since aliens don't have ID cards, that part can't apply to them and there seems no point in foreigners going to a government department with copies of passport, WP, alien book, residence book and other docs but insisting the officer should make their own copy of the tabien baan, if he wants it.

There was an order a couple of years ago saying that government officers could no longer demand a copy of the back of an ID card.  I already had a good quality master copy of my ID card back and front. So I continue to run off copies from that. Of course these orders don't apply to the private sector.

Another order said drivers can carry a copy of their driving licence in their phone.  I guess they are moving in the right direction but piles of trees are still being cut down to satisfy Thai bureaucracy. Recently went to change directors of the company and had to submit about 20 different forms and photocopies, some of them merely copies of stuff in their own database.  They even had two sit up and beg Thai typewriters for the public to use because they don't accept handwriting. Amazed that anyone knows how to use them or that they can buy replacement typewriter ribbons.  Still some ways to go to be a digital hub.

36 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Yes I have read it, both before I made my post above, and after you asked me to read it again.

 

Again I note that very few if any posters here have PR based on investment, I couldn't find a single one when I checked.

At least one person applied for PR under the investment category and reported that earlier in this thread. He said that, if he had to do it all again, he would apply under the regular business category.  He got no privileges but attracted a lot more scrutiny and had to submit far more documents. You still need a WP, so it is hard to see any advantage.

I am still confused as to how it could be possible for PRs who applied under the investment category to buy land either alone or jointly with a Thai citizen.  Can you cite the law or regulation that provides for this?

2 hours ago, blackprince said:

Yes they can buy land and the buildings on the land if their PR is based on investment. They can co-buy with a Thai citizen and both names appear on the chanote.

Nothing in the Land Code that provides for this, so I don't see how it could be done.  BOI promoted companies are allowed to own land needed for the business and for a residence for manager but the right expires when the BOI privileges expire or are cancelled for any reason. So not all that useful.  When the Land Code was promulgated in 1954 PR was the only visa longer than 3 months and was given to virtually everyone coming to work including Chinese coolies. So it wasn't considered a special status then and giving special land ownership rights to PRs in the Land Code would have been tantamount to saying just about all foreigners not on tourist visas can buy land. The Land Code has hardly ever been amended apart from the important early amendment to annul the provision preventing anyone from owning more than 50 rai of land with no exception whatsoever even based on rank.  A lot of important people were unhappy with this but it took a coup to amend it.  

30 minutes ago, jayboy said:

He also inaccurately describes the multiple re-entry stamp as a "renewal" which it obviously isn't.I'm also not sure getting the necessary stamp represents a restriction on freedom of movement: it took me half an hour last time.Having said that, I tend to agree the whole PR set up is rather creaky and all too clearly is a sclerotic arrangement designed for another age.Unfortunately I can't see where the pressure to reform - as opposed to tinkering about at the margins - will come from.

 

Interestingly, an American friend recently pointed out to me that holders of green cards (a kind of supercharged version of Thai PR with the right to work) needed to be careful if they were out of the US for more than a year since the Immigration authorities tended to get suspicious, sometimes aggressively so.US green card holders aren't cut off at the knees as Thai PR holders are in similar circumstances after one year's absence - but it indicates the logic of the thinking of all immigration bureaucrats on the subject.

I am not sure if Thailand just borrowed the concept of cancelling PR, if holders return without valid endorsements, from other countries that did the same thing or whether they had a a specific reason.  But there are similarities with the Nationality Act which provides for revocation of nationality for naturalised Thais and those who are Thai through birth in the Kingdom to an alien father, if they remain abroad for more than 5 years. Historically these provisions were used almost exclusively against Chinese migrants and children of Chinese migrants born in the Kingdom.  Probably the thinking was that Chinese who go back to China for long periods were not at all asilimated into Thai society and inpresented a security risk. It is also possible they could sell their PR or citizen documents to another Chinese who could assume their identity and move to Thailand. In modern times this seems to have been the motivation for the UK no longer allowing dual citizens to get right of abode stamps in their foreign passports.  I was told that dual nationals, largely from African countries, were selling their foreign passports with the right of abode.  However, biodata in passports may make this difficult or impossible today.

I had a girlfriend way back when I was living in the UK and she was a US green card holder who wanted to keep it up to retain the option of going back there some day. I went on a trip to New York with her just before her one year expired and this was the second or third time she had travelled there just before a year was up.  The IO, a disgusting fat slob, was brutal with her, criticising her for maintaining her green card and kept her at his window for 5 minutes to intimidate her. God knows what difference it made to him.  She eventually lost interest in the green card and let it lapse.

Y

5 hours ago, Morakot said:

Thanks @rimmae2! I'll check with immigration and see what they will say about this.

 

I found more details about the entire process and it looks like that document legalization can via done by post at the UK Legalisation Office (FCO).

https://www.get-document-legalised.service.gov.uk/select-service

 

They will accept original degrees or certified copies by an officer from the British Council. The legalised document from the UK's FCO should then be sufficient for the Thai MFA to approve an authorized translation. 

 

Of course this would take several weeks to send document from here to there and back.

 

--

Background info and shared frustration about the British embassy having stopped doing document legalization since 2018.

https://medium.com/elliots-blog/want-to-teach-in-thailand-get-your-degrees-legalised-before-leaving-the-uk-79cd8985901a

Yes, copies of documents certified via the FCO's service are acceptable to Thai MoFA but still need to be further legalised by the Thai embassy in London as far as I know.  If you can get the copies certified by a solicitor or notary, it will be a lot quicker and you have more control over the process and much less loss of original document loss.  HMG is extremely careless about other people's documents. In addition to losing my birth certificate, they once lost the passports of an entire batch of applicants (hundreds of people) for indefinite leave to remain (PR) in the UK with no compensation or apology.  I think I saw something a service to get this done which used to include taking the documents to the Thai embassy but this can no longer be done as they only accept documents by mail.  The Thai embassy is also very good at losing documents. 

Immigration does allow you to submit certain documents after the deadline. This includes the more difficult to obtain ones like educational certificates and home country police clearance.

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Are there any cases where a PR was granted to a person that is not paying income taxes?

 

In recent times I doubt it very much.  But going back to the origin of PR in the 1920s it was issued to Chinese immigrants coming off the boat, if they could prove they had a profession they could support themselves with.  There was no income tax at that time.

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I am now aware of any pages being removed.

'After one of the updates of the forum the layout was changed so that more posts could be shown on a page.

At any rate the number of pages in the thread has always varies depending on what type of device it is viewed on.

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

Arkady, why almost 200 pages were removed from this topic? Any particular reason?

 

Sorry. No idea.

11 hours ago, GarryP said:

My son was born in 1989 prior to the change in the law. As a result his birth certificate said that he was English, even though he was born in Thailand and his mother was Thai. We started the process of trying to get him Thai citizenship and were interviewed by the police in Ubolrathchathani as his mother's house registration was based in Ubol. Fortunately, while we were running about here and there to get him sorted, the law changed and he was automatically qualified as a Thai citizen so the law was retroactive. If I recall correctly, the change in the law was introduced when Anand Panyarachun was Prime Minister in 1992, but perhaps it did not become effective until 1993.

 

They did not issue a new birth certificate though, they just crossed out the part that had changed, wrote in by hand "Thai" and typed some stuff on the back of the certificate. I must admit that the District Office handled it quite well though and were helpful to me, despite it probably being strange to them that this foreigner came to get it sorted instead of the child's Thai mother. 

You are right.  It was in 1992. My apologies.  Anand was PM, so it was not pushed through by politicians, as there weren't any at that time, but the process may have been started by politicians before the 1991 coup. Certainly the amendment allowing males married to Thais to apply without PR was pushed by politicians. Both amendments were aimed at giving more equal rights to Thai women.

On 12/1/2021 at 12:33 PM, Badger18 said:

The reason they don't require you to give up your existing citizenship in advance will be that you would then be stateless until Thai citizenship was granted, and there's no guarantee at that point that it will be granted. So the fact that it's done that way doesn't mean it's OK to change your mind once your Thai citizenship comes through.

Taiwan does this and it has been a big problem for Vietnamese mail order brides.  Sometimes the marriage breaks up or the husband dies before their Taiwanese citizenship comes through and they have to go back to Vietnam and live there as stateless persons.  Vietnam allows them to surrender their nationality without another one but doesn't allow them to recover their nationality. Often they also have stateless children too who get condemned to a lifetime in limbo.  There's a pretty good reason why most other countries don't allow citizens to renounce their nationality and become stateless.  The Taiwanese attitude in forcing this is disgusting given that citizens born Taiwanese can have as many nationalities as they like.

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

Noted. Paying into Social Security of having the Gold Card has the same effect, free treatment at a specific hospital. Or is there a difference I should be aware of?

 

Right now, Gold Card plus pension sounds like the smarter option.

It problably is.  You don't need to live too long to make a profit from the pension relative to what you paid in, even though inflation is gathering pace and the government has no plans to adjust the pension for inflation. Just like the frozen UK state pension!  On the other hand some SS hospitals are quite good and others are <deleted>.  I believe Bangkok Christian Hospital in Silom, which is quite good, is on SS, whereas others I have been inside looked quite poor.  if SS gives you a hospital that is much better than the government alternative where you live, you might want to consider opting in.  Otherwise I wouldn't bother.  There is not much consistency between hospitals in the private or public systems.  Also some treatments may be available in one system but not the other.

Basically public health in Thailand is pretty <deleted> by Western standards but is a lot better than before the gold card and SS came along.  The most scandalous aspect is that the civil servants who design the policies have their own scheme that is much better than the other two and also takes care of their families.  Clearly the three systems should all be merged.  Civil servants could then see how the other half live and would have an incentive to improve things.

1 hour ago, Kwarium said:

i was thinking of those not in Social Security. More information:

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/stories/how-to-choose-social-security-gold-card-and-health-insurance.html

It is a pretty feeble social security system that makes you choose between inadequate private hospital healthcare and a tiny pension. They should consider dropping the word security from the name.

34 minutes ago, RJaidee said:

It depends where you get married. Where I had to get married I had to put forward 2 people and they were interviewed for about 10 minutes by the Amphur Headman. They dont do that where they have lots of Western / Thai marriages though.

555. What an earth could they talk about for 10 minutes with witnesses to a marriage registration?  They are just there to witness the event. It is not up to the head of registrations to decide whether you can get married or not based on witness statements.

One type of witness interview that seems value added is the compulsory interview of buyers and sellers with the head of registrations in the Land Office.  But I note that it is sometimes possible to give the head a tip to avoid the interview. This can be done either to save time and trouble, or in order to make it easier to deceive a buyer or seller. I was once asked what I wanted the land for in Ubon province and I told her I wanted to graze cows there, using the Isaan word gnua for a cow creating raucous laughter. (In fact someone else grazed their cows there without permission.) The seller is often asked if he really wants to sell at the declared price which is often significantly understated to avoid tax. Of course they know exactly what is going on but they sometimes tell you sarcastically you have got a great deal. 

I think this can be considered on topic because the first thing you want to do after getting your ID card after visiting the Royal Palace for free is to buy land - just because you can.

5 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Some might suggest Lisa moved to Korea because her career only path in Buriram planting rice wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

Her other skills were going to waste.

Lisa is the step daughter of a well known Swiss chef in Thailand. She got a decent education in Bangkok.