Arkady

15 hours ago, roo860 said:

Used this one with flat Wadcutter 9mm, probably load them themselves at the  army range Chiang Mai. 

 

9mm wadcutters do exist but I have never seen them in Thailand and I don't think any of the Thai manufacturers make them, although I could be wrong. They may work in some semi-auto pistols but are likely to have trouble getting up the feed ramp in most.  Anyway there would be no demand for them, given that all Thai manufacters produce various models of 9mm lead round nose practice ammo, coated or uncoated, that feed as well as full metal jacket. For .38 revolvers it is different because wadcutters are the standard practice ammo in Thailand and most of the round nose stuff is full metal jacket and much more expensive with more recoil, although there are some lower powered coated lead round nose .38 rounds available from NRC and maybe others. These are good for competition because the wadcutters are difficult to speed load as you fiddle about trying to get them into the cylinder.

It is possible that the army is reloading 9mm wadcutters at your range and, since you say they work in a Glock, they might work in the Glock 19 used in the accident.  It is illegal but the cops are unlikely to cause problems for soldiers reloading at an army base. In the past there was .308 rifle ammo reloaded by the army at some of their rifle ranges but recently the Thai ammo manufacturers got approval from the government to sell locally made .308 and .223 rifle ammo to licensed ranges and they are trying to improve their quality to match standard. So no need for the army to reload and sell to civvies any more. If they are reloading 9mm wadcutters it is probably cheaper and easier for them. They can use cases picked up off the ground and maybe cut down the .38 wadcutter bullets to put in them.   I have been through the gamut of revolver and semi-auto handgun training and competition in Thailand but have now gravitated more towards more towards long guns: shotguns, semi-auto sub guns and rifles. Easier to hit the target.

11 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Interesting, thanks for the info. 

 

I recall the news about the law being changed but didn't realise it never actually happened. 

 

This article and many others state the law, was changed in 2017.

https://www.thaienquirer.com/7572/thailands-gun-laws-and-statistics-a-brief-overview/

Thai Enquirer got it wrong. The law was not changed to prevent foreigners from registering firearms in 2017 because the bill never even reached parliament. I have seen several articles with the same misinformation. They just quote other articles that assumed the amendment would go through without doing any fact checking. It is pretty easy to pull out the Firearms Act and see nothing was changed.  In fact I know several foreigners who have registered firearms after 2017.

23 hours ago, roo860 said:

These are Wadcutter rounds, use them at my local range in Chiang Mai , they make a nice round hole in paper targets, possibly she was using them.

Wadcutters in .38 special are standard fare for revolvers at Thai ranges.  Relatively under powered but a lot cheaper and make a clean round hole. 9mm wadcutters do exist but none of the Thai ammo manufacturers make them as they won't feed in most semi-autos.  They would work in 9mm revolvers but there are very few of them and they are used for IPSC, so they also need to be round nosed to feed into the cylinder fast with a speed loader.  Oddly enough semi wadcutters are popular in .45 ACP caliber for semi autos in Thailand.  They have a conical bullet with a flat nose that also makes a nice round hole and feed in most but not all .45 semi-autos. I guess semi-wadcutters are not practical for 9mm.

18 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

That was my first 9mm and perhaps my first handgun.  I have two commercial-production models from the early 90's.  I have small hands and they fit and point well for me.  One is unused and the other has the mag disconnector removed.  I don't mind a bit of graunchiness in the trigger. 

 

My son has a nice CZ Shadow 2.  I gave him my CZ 75 because the trigger reach is too much for me. (Maybe I should make him convert it to single action only and get it back.)

These is a pretty good model for competition but the pretty turquoise aluminium grips are too narrow and slippery for big hands and need to be changed out. Designed for IPSC it is unfortunately 3oz too heavy for IDPA. It is a heavy pistol that shoots very accurately in the right hands with hardly any recoil due to its weight.  For competition the springs can be changed giving a really light crisp pull in single action.  CZ also sells these lighter springs but doesn't fit them in the guns for legal liability purposes.

Even if the springs are changed for competition, in my opinion this is a safer weapon than the Glock used in the accident because it has a safety and, like the Glock is double action, at least for the first shot, which means and relatively long and heavy trigger pull, making accidental discharges less likely.

Glocks are very popular in Thailand as they relatively inexpensive in a market where retail prices are marked up several times. But I am not a fan and think they are not very safe.  There have been many accidental shootings by police in the US with Glocks because of the lack of safety. In the hands of a nervous cop with adrenaline running the 5.5lb trigger pull can go off unintentionally like a hair trigger. Possibly this is what happened here, if the student had her finger on the trigger before she was ready to fire and muzzled the instructor maybe swinging around.  In addition most Glock models require you to pull the trigger to remove the slide and this has caused the demise of many US cops in stations while they sit with their colleagues who are cleaning their Glocks. Another issue is that Glock owners buy off label disconnectors and springs to slicken up their weapons and these modifications can cause the timing to go awry resulting in a round being detonated before it is fully in the chamber.  This caused an accident at a range her a few years ago when a visiting US shooting fired a borrowed gun. The slide and receiver blew apart causing him fortunately minor injuries. 

In view of the above it is worth remembering to wear proper safety glasses, if you visit a range, even if you are just watching others shoot.  I know someone who got a serious eye injury because he was just wearing regular sunglasses to shoot and he got a similar accident to the one described above.

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Thankfully farangs that get excited about guns are no longer allowed to own firearms in Thailand.

Indeed there was a bill to amend the Firearms Act so that Thai nationality would required for future registrations of firearms but the bill never made it to parliament before the last general election and the current didn't attempt to revive it.  So, as the law stands, foreigners are still permitted to register firearms in their own names. A work permit and tabian baan are required and PR is preferred but not essential. It is up to local licensing authorities to issue or not.  That means Bangkok will often issue a permit to a foreigner, if he has a good reason in their opinion, such as home defence or shooting sports, and they are satisfied he can speak enough Thai to follow instructions on the range and looks a respectable type of person. Most other provinces will probably not issue to foreigners and many are usually difficult for Thais too. Bangkok licensing is done by the Interior Ministry while in the provinces is under district offices with the provincial governor able to make regulations more strict than the ministry's but not more relaxed.

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

There are a number of veins and arteries running to and through the shoulder, chief among them the brachial artery. Sever any one of them, especially the brachial artery and you can bleed out very quickly.

 

In the early 80s a lone Army undercover officer took down 3 IRA terrorists, all tooled up with armalites who had laid an ambush for him in Londonderry. His only weapon was a 9mm Browning, the standard side arm back then.

 

Never underestimate the ability of any weapon.

9mm  Browning Hi-Power the first firearm I ever owned. An effective military side arm and used to be very popular with civilian shooters in the US but now there are many other choices. It has a very heavy, gritty trigger but that's OK for a service weapon. It has a magazine disconnector that prevents it from firing without the magazine in, to prevent accidents when soldiers think it's safe because they removed the mag without taking into account a round still up the spout. This feature makes the trigger even gritter but can be removed if you know how. This feature was added at the request of the French army who placed a large provisional order during the design stage but never actually bought it. The Germans took over over the FN factory in Belgium in WW2 and ramped up the production of Browning HPs for their own use.  They were in service with the British army for about 30 years.

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

In Thailand they refer to the copper plated bullets as live or operation bullets, and the uncoated as training bullets. I assume the dummy is a mistranslation. I guess the reason is that the coated bullets are more expensive and therefore you wouldn't want to water them for training...

That said, as far as I'm concerned there are only 2 rules in regards to guns:

1. If you don't know how to handle one, don't touch it.

2. Never ever aim a gun at anyone or anything you don't intend to shoot at. Not even a toy gun.

 

"Training" bullets...

 

Real bullet...

 

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

In Thailand they refer to the copper plated bullets as live or operation bullets, and the uncoated as training bullets. I assume the dummy is a mistranslation. I guess the reason is that the coated bullets are more expensive and therefore you wouldn't want to water them for training...

That said, as far as I'm concerned there are only 2 rules in regards to guns:

1. If you don't know how to handle one, don't touch it.

2. Never ever aim a gun at anyone or anything you don't intend to shoot at. Not even a toy gun.

 

"Training" bullets...

 

Real bullet...

 

You are right that the lead round nosed semi auto live rounds are referred to as training or practice rounds in Thailand, as they cheaper and under powered but that makes no difference in 25 metre ranges. The copper nosed rounds are referred as real bullets.  Actually a ridiculous nomenclature that implies the lead nosed rounds are not dangerous.  The Navy range in Bangkok actually requires to see your permit, if you "real bullets" but not if you buy "practice bullets" consistent with this nonsensical view.  Before copper nosed bullets there were only lead nosed bullets and, as all the guys in the Tombstone cemetery in the Wild West can attest, these practice rounds are lethal.

Having said all that the Thai version of the police press release reprinted by every one of the news outlets specified that practice dummy rounds were used, even though we can perhaps take the press release with a grain of salt.

8 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

I own handguns. I shoot IDPA and have been to many ranges with many instructors, and never have I used or even seen a "dummy" round. The gun is either loaded or it's not. Your job is to know which it is. Why would this even happen? This confusion about the round being live or not. Or is the only dummy here the person who shot the instructor.

Sor Ror Phor, the military range in Lardplakhao that trains VIP protection guards and has civilian members for its courses, does training with dummy rounds. These are used for training with semi auto pistols. What happens is that the instructor loads your magazine with a dummy round somewhere without letting you see where it is in the mag.  The idea is the gun won't shoot when you hit the dummy and you have to clear it.  So it is training for clearing malfunctions. But to do these semi auto courses you have to pass the basic revolver course and you know the basics of gun safety already.  Also the instructors never stand in front of the students in dry firing drills or drills with dummy rounds which may be what happened here.  Like you I have never seen dummy rounds used in training anywhere in Thailand other than at Sor Ror Phor, which is rather unique, and I have done a lot of IDPA, IPSC and other handgun courses in country.

5 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

Arkady, I hear you, but when one makes the choice to become Thai it effects many things. My sons, educated and trained in the USA, applied for jobs in BKK, the offers came with Thai salaries  which were 60% of foreigner salary for the same job. With BPS it is not the kids nationality but the parents that count. 

It would make more sense, if the parents were studying there, rather than their kids, but there we are.  Sorry to hear about your kids.  You mean they applied for teaching jobs in Thailand?

4 hours ago, aidenai said:

The problem with rules, regulations and laws in Thailand is that there are only 2 options in regards to nationality.

 

a) You are a Thai national

b) You are a foreign national

 

 

This generally true but in this case the school relies on Thai students who have another passport to make up the majority of its 80% foreign quota of the student body. So it is a bit hypocritical. If they applied the same principle to students that they do to parents, their much vaunted 80% foreign ratio would probably be less than 50% and more comparable to their competitors.

23 hours ago, DrJoy said:

This school is way better than BPS -

 

https://www.eis.ac.th/

Thanks for the recommendation.

I recently went to Bangkok Patana School in Bangkok to enquire about schooling for my child.  BPS is exceptional amongst international schools in maintaining a strict 20% quota for Thai nationals, which makes it hard for pure Thais to get in and applications for Thai nationals are in fact already closed for August 2022.  However, a large proportion of the foreign students are actually Thai look krung. 

You can imagine my shock at being told that my look krung child would be considered Thai because both parents are Thai citizens.  With unfathomable logic they are prepared to accept kids who are dual nationals but only if they don't have a dual national parent.  I was told they would actually rummage through a parent's foreign passport to check there was a Thai visa in it. Since the Thai quota is the school's own policy, not imposed by the government, the thing about checking for visas must be their own idea too. They claim the quota is to preserve the international character of the school which is all well and good but I fail to see how my son will be less international because I decided to take Thai nationality than he would have been, if I hadn't.

We have come to accept discrimination of the "Thai mai por" type but this reverse "farang mai por" discrimination imposed by farang educators who are supposed to be enlightened thinkers inspiring our kids with their keen intellects has significantly curbed my enthusiasm for handing large amounts of hard earned cash to them.  But this seems consistent with stories that have appeared in this thread of naturalised farangs who get salaries reduced at international schools or even get job offers cancelled when it is found there is no is Thai visa in a foreign passport.  It seems to me that it would make more sense to say no dual national kids, rather than no dual kids with dual parents, but this would make this type of quota unviable.

4 hours ago, sas_cars said:

Tomorrow I'll go to the same process at BKK embassy. For the verified passport copy, do they copy the original passport themselves and verify it? Or they verify the copy which comes with santiban letter addressed to them?

In my experience embassies and other notaries usually feel the need to make the copy themselves in order to verify it is a true copy.

Someone who recently travelled in and out of Swampy with a brand new 10 year Thai passport told me the e-gates were working on his way back but an IO told him they are not yet usable with 10 year passports which sounds incredibly inefficient, since the 10 year passports have been in issue for some time now.  I recall there was a rumpus with Big Joke alleging there was a lot of corruption in procuring the new e-gates system. So perhaps not surprising, if corners were cut. Someone else, however, claimed he was able to pass the e-gates with a 10 year Thai passport.

1 hour ago, heiri007 said:

Observation I have not yet seen shared here. When leaving Thailand for the first time with the shiny new passport, I got stopped by immigration since I still popped up in their system with my old nationality passport and travel history. 
 

Turned out this might happen the first time. All it took was five minutes of explaining. Returning to Thailand then just fine. 
 

A friend who also recently got Thai ID was stuck for 30 minutes when leaving for the first time at Swampy. He had to produce the Royal Gazette edition ???? with his name. 

Interesting that new citizens have been experiencing this hassle.  It didn't happen to me and this is the first time I have heard of it.  However, I think I exited the country the first time through the electronic gates.  Did those who got stopped with new Thai passports cancel their visas?

Is there any sign of electronic gates being brought back into service?  As tourism picks up, I imagine they will be under pressure to operate them. If they have them, I can't imagine why they haven't been using them, even with a reduced flow of travellers.

1 hour ago, anthonyT said:

Thank you very much for the reply Arkady. That is a relief, as did not travel back home in the last 2 years during the pandemic and my family there is getting older.

 

Then only the uncertainty remains if or if not the application is successful. Would be interested to know from any last year graduates, how long it took for them to get the approval or rejection.

Just remember to make sure your consideration endorsement will be still valid on the date you return to LoS.

I think that, if you didn't make a complete horlicks of the interview, e.g. unable to understand or reply to their questions, you can assume you passed.  CW usually does a good job of weeding out anyone with something lacking in their qualifications before the interview stage. Often they are invited to fix the problem and reapply.  The panel of bureaucrats doing the interviews are not going to want to fail someone on a totally subjective basis who has all the qualifications, unless it is obvious they can't communicate in Thai at all. They might worry about getting a case against them in the administrative court which can drag on for years, or of being accused of rejecting qualified applicants because they didn't pay bribes. 

20 minutes ago, anthonyT said:

Thank you all for the information posted here on the topic of the permanent resident permit. It has been very helpful in my application.

 

I just have one curiosity question, as i have applied in December 2021 for this permit and had my interview with the board a few weeks ago. Generally how long did it take in the recent year(s) to know if the test was ok and you know your application would be approved or if the test was not ok, what would be the next requirement. 

 

I read some where earlier in the old applications it could 12 to 18 months or longer. Is that still the case? And if so, would i be able to travel overseas on my "Under application" visa i have now?

 

Many thanks

I don't know how long approvals are currently taking but for sure you can travel in and out of the country on your under consideration visa for as long as it takes, provided you get it endorsed every 6 months. Before the last coup applications were backlogged for up to 7 or 8 years and those applicants continued to use that visa which is a breeze to maintain.

On 4/7/2022 at 7:07 PM, yankee99 said:

The owner of the property needs to be present to add you to the yellow book

I am pretty sure this can be done with the property owner signing a form and with a power of attorney, if he is normally required to be present.  I did it with a company ownership and obviously the company didn't need to be physically present. 

Even land can be transferred using a power of attorney from the absent owner which is one reason there is so much fraud in land transfers.

On 4/1/2022 at 11:35 AM, scorecard said:

How true, many gov't officers, many ministries have never heard of PR and have serious doubts that such a thing exists.

 

I was coming off Rama 4 Rd onto the tollway to Chonburi on a green light, still green when we arrived at the tollgate. Instantly a policeman appeared in my window and claimed fai dang fai dang 500B. My 20 yo Thai son was with me (he hates the police for his own reasons) and he politely told the officer 'it was green 20 metres back from this point, my father has not broken any law'. 

 

At the same time my son has opened the small zip puch where I keep my passport, PR book, police Red book etc which was sitting near the gear shift between the 2 front seats.

 

Policeman demanded my passport, son instantly handed him my PR book and said 'my father is a resident of Thailand'.

 

Second higher rank policman now turns up and asks what's happening. Before the first policeman can explain my son quickly starts talking (politely) and says that 'my father didn't go through a red light and you can see he's a resident of Thailand'.

 

Higher cop says something about the 'my father' comment made by my son. Son already has his Thai ID out of his wallet, gives it to the senior cop and points out that the family name is a typical western name. Snr cop looks like he's seen a ghost'. Meanwhile senior cop is quickly reading every page of my PR book. Son now hands him my RED police registration book.

 

Senior cop totally confused and suddenly says to the more junior initial cop 'maybe from an embassy!' Junior responds 'YES'.

 

Both cops now take a very different attitude, snr salutes me and says politely to my son 'where are you going, do you want a police escort to your destination?

 

Son says 'No thank you, we just want to get going'.

 

Snr now quickly commands the gang of cops that have gathered to stand back and salute and he waves us on our way. 

What a sorry bunch of half wits!

1 hour ago, cocoonclub said:

 — Should we ever decide to break up and she decides to remove me from her house book, how much time do I have to convince my landlord or find someone new? 

From what I recall you are supposed to notify change of address and tabien baan within 30 days.  I did it about 3 months late as a PR and had to pay a small fine - I think 100 baht in those days but it is probably a bit more now. Not serious. I don't think the householder can just unilaterally move someone from their tabien baan when they get fed up with them.  Again from what I recall the district office needs to be informed which district the resident is moving to and the resident has to sign the form anyway. I think I did the exit from the first district office by myself without having to involve the householder.  Basically you would have plenty of time to organise the process in my opinion and should not lose any sleep about that particular aspect of a potential separation.

56 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

I have never had a issue opening a bank account in thailand with my usa passport.   Also even when you are thai opening a account in thailand they will ask if you are a usa citizen then ask you to sign a irs form if you are. 

I have heard of Thai fund management companies refusing to open accounts for Americans, even for RMF accounts but the banks still seem willing to open accounts, subject to your signing the FATCA form.  Of course that means you will have to declare that bank account with the IRS.  One of my former Thai staff was a US citizen as  a result of being born there. When she opened an account at the company's bank to get her payroll (never understood why payroll couldn't be paid into any bank, as happens in other countries), she decided not to tell them she was a US citizen. She said she had never filed for US tax and wanted to stay off their radar.  If Americans become Thai, they can perhaps make the same choice but they are probably already on the IRS radar screen. There is no place of birth on the ID card but, if your parents are or were American, they can see that on your tabien baan and might be suspicious and you might have to pretend you have renounced US citizenship but would not be able to produce evidence of that.  So for someone already on the IRS radar, it may not be worth the effort of avoiding the FATCA form.  But the good thing is that you can still open a bank account in Thailand, if you are an American, at least for now. An American friend with an account in Switzerland was given a year to wind down his account, as the bank had decided to boot out all their US clients completely to avoid FATCA hassles.