Arkady

3 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

I'm Italian

Italy legalised dual nationality in 1992. Prior to that Italians automatically lost Italian citizenship on naturalising as an alien, if it was found out.

5 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

Mine was issued on 25 December! I guess that shows Bang Bon wasn't a hot favourite with expat residents.

Bang Bon police station, nonetheless, probably has a full time alien registration officer to take care of those 3 registrations a year and their 5 yearly endorsements. Nice work, if you can get it. Mine was issued in Yannawa which probably has a lot of aliens.

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

I take it got your driving license when they still issued them with lifetime validity. 

Yes. Mine was issued in January 2000 and the last date they were issued was 28 July 2003.  Only foreigners with PR were eligible and everyone, Thai or foreigner,  had to have a 1 year licence, then a 3 year licence without criminal traffic convictions before they could apply.  I just showed my UK licence to get my first Thai licence and never did any type of test apart from the colour blind test, as far as I can remember.

The end of all of life licences was well flagged several years in advance.  So many people had the chance to get them before the cut off date.

On 3/12/2022 at 8:48 AM, BKKBike09 said:

Mine used to have my ID number because I had PR (and so also had name in Thai). Then last time I went to renew I forgot my household reg. So they put my police book number as ID Number ... "3/2555" .... go figure.

 

I made an appointment months ago to change it; appointment is next week and I'm busy so I cancelled it ... next appointment not for another month, not that I care.

 

The DLT folk at Sukhumvit 62 who change the details were very helpful, unlike their colleagues in the driving license section. I did couple of cars and couple of motorbikes in less than 2 hours. If you don't read / write Thai you'll need someone with you who does because you have to fill in a request form for each reg book to be amended. Also copies of the RG announcement, household reg and nationality certificate, one set for each vehicle. As far as I can remember, the car people however then didn't take the RG, whereas the bike people did, or something like that. 

 

And the motorbikes were cheaper than the cars for making exactly the same changes! Not that it was very expensive. 100 baht or something like that per book.

My alien book number was 1/2540 which dates me. The "1" signified the first book issued at my police precinct that year which was not surprising as it was early January.

I have just been inspired to look at the registration books for the 3 vehicles in my name. Each one is registered under a different nationality: English, British and Thai.  The English one is particularly odd as the section for ID number was left completely blank, even though I already had my 13 digit ID number via PR and must have presented my tabian baan because at that time they would only register vehicles in the name of foreigners with either work permits or PR and I didn't have a work permit then.  Never noticed that before.  I have used copies of these a couple of times to prove ownership when I stupidly lost parking tickets and the guards seemed happy to match up the name with my ID card without mentioning the nationality variance.

I don't think it is much of issue to keep them like this but the nationality will probably have to be updated, if I sell one of the old bangers. I might update the nationalities next time I have to pay the annual tax.  I don't know if that requires ID as I have never done it myself.

As previously mentioned, I have also not updated the nationality on my all of life driving licence, since it doesn't show nationality but does show my 13 digit ID.  However, it is now wearing out and becoming illegible to the point that I may be could not use it to rent a car overseas.  So I will probably go and get a replacement at some point and inform them of my nationality change.

10 hours ago, DrJoy said:

He is a Naturalized citizen, so are you & others.

It is obligatory for naturalized citizens to update Thai ID in all documents.

Use of former nationality is forbidden inside Thailand.

There is no reference to a requirement to update documents in this way in the Nationality Act which also doesn't specify that use of former nationality is forbidden in Thailand. It says that making use of former nationality is grounds for revocation of nationality without defining "use" or specifying whether it needs to take place within or outside the Kingdom. Having a document that referred to your former nationality passport number could not logically constitute use of former nationality, unless perhaps you applied for the document after naturalisation.  I don't think it would be taken any more seriously that someone who changes their name but fails to change it on their driving license, until they need to get a new one.

In my case, I didn't change my driving license and still have the same driving license issued many years before I got Thai citizenship. The license already had the same 13 digit ID number as my ID card and driving licenses don't have your nationality on them.  So I didn't see any point in changing it. 

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

I will answer your and qualtrough question at the same time.

 

No they were not married and were applying as single.  These three seemed to be either laotians or Burmese.  Unlike the 60 or so people that came before them they were the first ones required to sing the anthems.

 

The interesting thing is they didn't go through the special Branch police they probably went through dopa directly and dopa didn't do a very good job of informing them the absolute requirement of singing the national and royal anthems.

 

These three persons also seemed like they didn't put much effort in preparing for the citizenship application.  And we're actually scolded by the head of the committee. Ones of the three sang part of the national anthem and then gave up. The second one couldn't sing at all. The third one was singing next to me seem to be singing okay but for some reason she decided not to sing in front of the committee.

 

But here's the important part that may be relevant to westerners. The head of the committee said go and practice and come back next time when you are ready.  Basically left the option for them to keep the application open while they practice the anthems.

Very interesting account of the interviews and it is positive that CM is delegated to do the interviews. Interviews in Bkk for those not married to Thais have historically more thorough.  Mine was 15 minutes but your batch was quite large, so they obviously couldn't spend more than a few minutes on each applicant.

Whereas Bkk conducts separate interview sessions for those naturalising as Thais, women adopting husband's Thai nationality and minorities who apply through BORA, it sounds as if CM batched them all up together.  I think you are probably right that the candidates who fluffed the singing were minorities born in Thailand who were not properly prepared by BORA, poor guys. When I was waiting for my interview one of the staffers told me that a Chinese couple were having to repeat the songs and might have been rejected. But she made clear that, as you say, they get invited back to try again at a later date.

12 hours ago, onthemoon said:

With your examples of the UK and other countries, why would anybody apply for a visa for that country if they are also a holder of a passport of the same country?

Well, you can't anyway but, as I mentioned, in the UK it used to be quite convenient, as you could get a stamp in your other passport that was equivalent to PR valid for life and transferable free of charge to new passports. But that is all gone now.  I read a suggestion that there were too many cases of people from countries like Nigeria that sold their passports with the COE stamp in them to illegal immigrants, while they travelled on their Brit passports. But that might have been just a racist comment. 

32 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I've got a story to tell on that place. When I get back from holiday I'll give the details. Don't like typing out long messages on my phone. But definitely like you, a mixed experience with the MOI near Sanam Luang. 

I have never been to Lamlukka but the old department in the MOI HQ in Asadang Road was in a rather dilapidated wing tacked on to the side of the main building in an architectural style completely out of keeping with the original building and musty smelling with nowhere to park a car anywhere nearby.  Security at the MOI HQ was, like National Police HQ, almost non-existent.  Anyone could walk in, show ID which was not recorded, say they were applying for citizenship and be allowed in with no check list of candidates or call to the department for clearance.

I am wondering if any naturalised Thais here have any recent experience applying for visas to farang countries in their Thai passports.  I have a friend who got his Thai nationality over 20 years ago and always used to get US and European visas (now Schengen) for trips. He also had a UK COE in his Thai passport which used to be of permanent validity and could be transferred to new passports free of charge but the UK stopped issuing COEs in 2007 and annulled all the existing ones when the passports they were in expired.  UK visas are very expensive, over GBP 700 for a 10 year visa and UK passport holders are ineligible.  Schengen visas are only available for a specific trip but Switzerland offers or used to offer a special service providing visas in other passports of Swiss citizens and I think Australia has something similar. US visas are good value, if you can get one but US citizens ineligible.  A 10 year multiple US visa is only $160 but the wait list for appointments in Bangkok is currently about 8 months, even though the State Dept website misleadingly says it's only 41 days. No idea about Australian, Canadian or other visas. I once got an Aussie visa for the missus and it was a PITA and I don't think they offered more than a specific trip visa like Schengen. 

2 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Yes I think the process and the provinces is a little bit more complicated with more steps but it could just be because of covid because I only applied less than a year ago. The three years is somebody ahead of me in Chiang Mai

Potential applicants need to bear in mind that CM, Phuket, Chonburi and maybe one or two others are the exceptions amongst provinces outside Bangkok. The vast majority of provincial Special Branch offices either point blank refuse to accept applications, claim it is not their job or go through the motions but in the end are incapable of doing anything for applicants other than drop subtle hints about backsheesh. Perhaps this will change, if the MOI really manages to wrest the processing away from Special Branch as suggested by the recent cabinet resolution.  However, since nothing ever gets easier with citizenship or PR, I somehow suspect that axing SB from the equation will not be in the interests of applicants, if it ever happens.

21 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

That's a good tip for the Royal Anthem because I'm always dropping an octave.  I did talk to the SB officer today and he did say it was the last interview. That it would then go to the interior ministry to be put in the queue.  He warned me that that may take 3 years or more for the process.

Perhaps the MOI has delegated the little committee interview to officials in CM.  They can probably do that because the officials who are supposed to sit on the committee in Bkk delegate their subordinates to go in their place.  But the timing seems strange: MOI interview after a year, then saying it might take 3 years after that. After MOI interview there is nothing to be done but forward the recommendations to the big committee which usually meets a couple of months later to rubber stamp the recommendations which are then sent to the minister for signature.  If the little committee interview is delegated to CM, the CM recommendations should go straight to the big committee, not hang around in the MOI for years.

8 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I have to sing the national and royal anthem next week. I'm under the impression that it's the final moi interview, the full committee.

 

Less than one year from application, pretty good for Chiang Mai.

I hope for your sake you are right but I think it's unlikely to be the final MOI interview. The members of the big committee that makes the final recommendations to the minister are listed in Section 25 of the Act and the composition of the little committee that does the MOI interviews is the same but the officials can be a rank or two lower.  It is not shown in the Act but was listed in lengthy Thai language guidelines that used to be on SB's website.  There is nothing about provincial governors or deputy governors chairing the committees, although they could conceivably be delegated to do so. The chairman of he big committee is supposed to be the undersecretary of MOI, the senior bureaucrat at the ministry. Most of the agencies and departments on the committee have people up in CM, except the Foreign Ministry but they might not have people in CM of the rank entitled to sit on the committee.

As previously mentioned, I recall others having to do similar interviews in CM and Phuket with high level local officials and singing before being referred to the MOI for the main interview.  But let's see.  Good luck in the interview and be sure to start the royal anthem low enough that you have enough register in your voice to get in the high notes without having to drop down an octave.

21 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Thanks I'm in Chiang Mai and the moi interview is in 10 days. I was just confused because the poster said that there was a Bora interview one year after the moi interview.

 

I'm not sure if it's a little bit different here as the interview will be chaired by the deputy Governor, police officials and officials from other departments

I think they  have a different system in CM and do their own interview to approve the application before putting it into the MOI system. I remember reading about someone doing a similar interview with local high ups in Phuket some years ago. I guess it would be equivalent to SB Bkk approving your application with no set time for the MOI interview to follow.

2 hours ago, yankee99 said:

Never heard this before. Why would they do that 

Bear in mind that there are a large number of Chinese and Indian applicants and their embassies can revoke their citizenship when they receive these notices. Same with Koreans, Singaporeans, Malaysians and others. Sending letters to embassies was introduced at the same time as the affidavit and is obviously linked. They hope that the foreign governments will do the job for them and probably had assumed that all of them would do this.

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

What is a panel interview? What happens in a panel interview?

The PR language test is in front of a panel of about half a dozen officials. It started off being a simple multiple choice test conducted informally by Immigration officers and then it was decided this was not rigorous enough, so it morphed into a panel interview. Inevitably they would probably ask the same sort of questions as teh NIA and the MOI.  Since singing is part of the language test, they would probably have to hear that too, at least for those without Thai wives.  Perhaps they will also conduct the optional reading and writing tests and knowledge of Thailand.  Have to wait and see. Before 2010 SB didn't have to conduct any tests except for the singing tests.  So they may be happy to revert to something like that.

2 hours ago, david143 said:

don't do that,

keep the old .

new 30 + 30 you should know how Thai Govt works,

the letter of confirmation of Interview at MOI i have done my interview on 17 December 2019 and i received letter from moi on April 2020 ????

I imagine the 90 days will the processing time from SB accepting your application until forwarding to MoI signed off by NIA and other agencies, as it was in the old flow chart.  But they can always come up with excuses for not sticking to the time limit.  The flow chart also used to say "no time limitation" for all the other steps after the file arrived at the MoI. I am sure it will be the same again.  They are not going to impose time limits for the minister or HMK to sign and probably not even for the interview.  The MoI doesn't want to create a stick to beat itself with.  I think it is concerned with delays that are often caused by the other agencies that have to sign off between SB and the MoI.  Agencies like the narcotics people have been notorious for leaving files piled up in in trays and not responding to chasers.

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

But the new regulations also mention about the 90 day processing deadline which can be extended by 30 days , 2 times. 120 days deadline if applying from abroad.

 

Are they that efficient? I don't think so

 

Official link here -

 

https://www.thaigov.go.th/news/contents/details/50437

Thanks for posting the original. Far better than reading a report that has gone through a Thai reporter and a subeditor.

It does seem as if they are going to do panel interviews like they do for PR.  No mention of reading and writing.  Just letting SB allot points for spoken language based on meetings in the office was admittedly rather haphazard.  But it is still not clear whether applicants married to Thais will have to do these panel interviews for points or not.

They  had a flowchart showing a time limit of 90 days for processing the pre-MOI part of the process when I applied but they took the opportunity to scrap it during the red shirt protests of 2010 because they were outside Police National HQ and the officers said they couldn't be sure of being able to get the office every day.  So this is just reviving something that was there before.

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

3. Clearly specify the time period for considering and examining the qualifications for applying for Thai citizenship or applying for naturalization as a Thai The competent official must complete the process within 90 days or 120 days in the case of filing abroad. which can be extended for no more than 30 days at a time, but not more than 2 times and must be in the case of necessity only (previously, there was no time limit for considering and checking qualifications) 

 

I have tears????  Krab pom

Good luck to anyone trying to apply at a Thai embassy abroad!