Arkady

7 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

That becoming unemployed during PR application process was a grey area when I went to pick up my PR 5 years ago, took an on the spot 'we can fix' this fee or visa cancelled there and then.

That's interesting. Going back a few years there were a number of people reporting here that after waiting for many years for PR they had no trouble from the fact that they no longer had WPs when they picked up their PR. 

Lucky the British Club was able and willing to accommodate it or it would have gone to the wreckers ball along with the rest of the embassy.

As mentioned above, PRs who were already working legally and paying tax when the first WP law came in in the early 70s were exempt from WPs for life, if they remained in the same profession. All PRs since then have needed a WP to work but, of course, there is no obligation to work. How could they force people to work into their 80s and 90s?  In fact it is not even a problem, if you become unemployed during the PR application process once you have passed the all the checks and panel interview.  Many people have either retired or been made redundant while waiting, especially during the time before the coup when they made applicants cool their heels for 5-7 years.

4 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Yes, I know what I'm up against. Been there, done that. ????  (With another Ministry.)

 

When I first came to Thailand, there was a rule that tourists had to make a tax declaration if they stayed in the country for more than 90 days in a calendar year, and even pay taxes on the amount they spent if they stayed more than 180 days. What I am saying about ridiculous rules is that Thailand is a developing country, and all is getting better in the long run. Two steps forward, one step back, that's normal.

 

I love this country and have the best hopes for it in the long run. And I'm willing to help if I can.

 

True, but having PR is still better than depending on the renewal of a non-imm visa, IMHO.

I was reminded of the tax declaration looking through an old passport that had them in it.  I had a secretary to organise that but it would have been a hassle to do oneself or if a trip had to be made at very short notice. I guess the Finance Ministry worked out that it was not helping them collect enough incremental tax to cover the cost of administering the damned thing. I think the Finance Ministry tends to be more pragmatic than other ministries.

Of course having PR is much better than any other type of visa but it is not nearly as good as it ought to be, given the hassle and cost of obtaining it. I hope you and others can persuade the authorities to change things for the better, despite all the vested interests and other obstacles.  Since I have already jumped ship and become a citizen, it is no longer my fight.

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Totally agree, further, I have attempted to apply for citizenship a couple of times, and I thought I had all my ducks in a row and with no foreseen problems. It didn't work out like that at all with very slight complications with my work permits, and then older age.

 

So I stay with PR which I got more than 2 decades ago and it serves me very well. If I had an opportunity to comment I would:

 

- Suggest consideration of dropping the WP requirement either on receipt of PR or perhaps after holding PR for say 10 years.

 

- Retain the current restrictions on types of work (I agree with protecting citizens and work opportunities).

 

- A dedicated Thai PR holders ID card as already mentioned a couple of days ago on this thread, with removal of the location / movement restrictions on the back of the card.  

Needing a WP is a major grievance of being a PR.  To date they have only made things worse in this respect.  The first Working of Aliens Act which introduced WPs for the first time had a transitional provision that exempted PRs, who were working and already had PR when the law came in, from needing a WP for life, provided that they remained within the same profession.  Obviously that concept is long gone. 

Then in 2011 the Labour Ministry, under pressure from Immigration which resented PRs' ability to get around their rules about Thai employees, decided to cancel the exemption from needing any Thai employees that used to be enjoyed by PRs working in small companies.  I questioned this at the Labour Ministry at the time because I was thinking about returning to my own small company situation and a knowledgeable official was decent enough to come out of the back office and talk to me.  He quoted from the preamble to the 2008 Working of Aliens Act the bit about the need to protect employment opportunities for Thai citizens and kindly gave me a copy.  He said he realised that the Labour Ministry had not previously required Thai employees for PRs but that had not been consistent with the need to protect Thai jobs in the law.  When I asked him if he thought PRs, having been given permission to stay for life and may need to earn a living, should be treated differently, he replied that he understood that thinking but that the law did not provide for that.  Finally he offered the consolation that for people with a Thai spouse only 1 million in paid-up capital was required.  I thanked him for that but said I already had 2 million in paid-up capital.  

The reality is that the only changes regarding WPs for PRs have been with the intent of treating them exactly the same as everyone else.  So one can hope for special treatment in future and even petition for it like the TM30 objectors but the chances in my opinion are extremely slim.   The good thing is that the problem of WPs eventually goes away when you retire. 

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

You are describing a situation that was bad and has improved. Good!

 

Don't be so negative, have faith. Things are improving, I was involved in changing another law recently. The country is developing, it takes its time but it is getting better over time. 

Yes, try to push for change by all means but be aware of the entrenched vested interests you are up against. The fact that they have only just decided to enforce the ridiculous TM30 rules 40 years after the law was passed is also a good example of the current official mindset. They might even go backwards and start enforcing the rule that PRs have to check into the local police station after spending 72 hours in another district, or whatever that rule was. 

At first it is exciting to be a PR but over the years the gloss tarnishes when you get fed up with having to submit photocopies of so many books that no one understands and have relatively few privileges compared to being a PR in most other countries, where one is often effectively a citizen without the right to vote.  Fortunately Thailand provides a way out of this which to apply for citizenship after 5 years of PR. Another 5 years after that you even get the right to vote.

15 hours ago, onthemoon said:

 

Thanks for the background.

 

While I agree with what you say about the situation, I see no reason to accept it as a permanent situation. Change is possible, let's work on it rather than giving up before we did anything.

Change will have to come some day but it will not be to promote the convenience of PRs.  It will be because those defending the iron rice bowls mentioned above get outflanked by someone more powerful in the political structure with different objectives. Ultimately it may be wrapped up as a national security issue to keep better track of PRs by giving them smart ID cards. But unfortunately, PRs are usually unnoticed as there are so few of them and so many Thais have no idea they even exist.  I recall the situation when Immigration introduced multi-entry visas for NON-B holders, in place of the system where you had to estimate how many trips you expected to make in the coming year and buy the appropriate number of re-entry visas or go to Immigration before each trip tobuy them one by one.  I happily fronted up for my first renewal at the Soi Suan Plu office and asked a multi-entry re-entry only to be told that the pu yai had not bothered to issue the order to make multi-entries apply to PRs and they had no idea when or if it would happen.  In fact it took them a year to issue the notice and PRs had to get single entries while non-PRs were smiling with their new multi-entries. 

An interesting example of resistance to logical change was the attempt by the Interior Ministry under the Thaksin regime to combine all the staff at the Interior Ministry, Immigration and Special Branch who handle PR and citizenship applications.  It was acknowledged that the system was hugely inefficient with overlapping responsibilities and massive duplication of work in addition to things falling between the cracks.  Ultimately it is the same department at the Interior Ministry that is responsible for the two ministry sections that approve PR and citizenship.  Immigration does the initial screening and final processing of applications for PR and Special Branch does the same for citizenship, while all the important work is done at the ministry out of sight of applicants and the police.  Communication between the ministry and Immigration and Special Branch is poor and applicants often find that an interpretation by Immigration or Special Branch ends up rejected by the ministry.  Eventually the proposal that would obviously have streamlined the two processes immensely had to be shelved due to fierce resistance from Immigration and Special Branch as the officers could not accept that they would have to give up their police ranks and medals for parachuting and stuff by becoming part of the Interior Ministry. Obviously senior police also objected to giving up the departments but the police ranks issue was used as the insurmountable HR obstacle and an excuse to retain an utterly inefficient system for another generation or more.  

35 minutes ago, scorecard said:

@brd    please share what you mean by this line.

It's pretty clear that brd is unfamiliar with the PR system but wanted to chime in anyway.

Definitely the system of documenting PRs is archaic and most of it (probably including the printing of the alien books, as far as I am aware, dates back to the original 1927 Immigration Act or not long after.  What is clearly needed is a new Immigration Act.  The current one dates back to 1979 when PR was relatively easy to obtain and many of the types of visa issued today had yet to be invented.  The current act probably had a lot of clauses simply cut and pasted from earlier acts that were already obsolete at the time, in the typical lazy manner of Thai law drafters.  Some further amendments to the Civil Registration Act are also needed to issue smart ID cards to PRs which would facilitate the abolition of the residence and alien books which are no longer of any use to authorities or PRs.

However, I have never seen any suggestion from officials or politicians that the PR system needs changing or that the Immigration Act needs reform.  I think the status quo suits officials very well.  They like an Immigration Act that is out of date but that they can continuously amend without parliamentary approval with police orders or ministerial regulations.  A whole new act of parliament might well contain some measures added by politicians they didn't like and would then be unable to amend easily.  The system of documentation creates many "sabai" and pensionable jobs with full civil service healthcare for family members for lazy people.  The sections at CW that issue books for PRs and do the annual endorsements are obviously highly sought after positions because they all seem to be Snr Pol Sgt Majs. No need to deal with queues of sweaty, angry foreigners all day like the other CW officers.  In police stations in Bangkok there is an alien registration officer who in most cases has only a few minutes work a day to perform on average.    

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Further, if/when the blue book is full you visit immigration (in Bkk at CW) and get a replacement issued. The replacement is white colour.

 

There is no re-application for PR, nor any re-approval process and no interview or similar involved, just a mechanical replacement of the full book.  

Why the replacement book has to be white and say "duplicate" on the front is one of the great mysteries of PR that I am sure the officers at CW would be unable to explain other than with their own personal theories, if asked.  Anyway, it sure gets dirty faster than the blue one, if you travel a lot with it.

7 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Not quite right.

 

1 Red brown book Once every five years at your local police station HQ. Cost is 800 baht. 

 

2 Blue book You do not need to get it endorsed at all. Never. Only need to get the re-entry permit (multiple or single) put in if you intend leaving the country. I have gone five years without ever leaving Thailand. As you routinely go out every year, then when you apply for a reentry permit you hand over your passport and blue book at the same time. The cost for multiple reentry permit is 3,900 baht in your passport and 1,800 baht in your blue book. Total of 5,700 baht. 

 

Have you got your pink ID card yet? Very useful inside Thailand. 

I believe the cost is more than the cost of extensions based on marriage or retirement but far less agro and you don't need to bother, if you don't want to travel abroad.

Last few times I did the renewals for residence book and passport before I got the blue ID card, the forms were available online and could be typed online and printed out and signed before going to CW which saved some hassle there.

17 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Let's see how that works out.

If motorists have a few photocopies of their licence to show the police, won't that reduce the chance of any "fine" being paid?

I can see if it was produced on a smartphone, their could possibly be some 'reluctance' by the police to return the phone.

In the days when it was easy to get an international driving licence and before I ever applied for a Thai licence, I must confess that I was in the habit of picking up multiple IDPs on visits to the UK and leaving them in the care of traffic policemen.

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

Normally this guy would be untouchable somehow can't help thinking someone wants him out the way.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs but he heads a construction firm that does mainly infrastructure work which in Thailand is mostly government.  This type of player has to try to walk a fine line to be good friends with those in power as well as those who might in power in future.  Sudden changes of government can be extremely difficult for them.  His firm won a lot of tenders in the Thaksin years and under Yingluck and the other nominees and may have been viewed as too close to them and therefore expendable.

"Premchai was in possession of two hunting rifles and a homemade one when apprehended..."

No details of the homemade weapon and whether he is also facing charges of being in possession of an unlicensed firearm and possibly a type that is illegal for civilians to own.  I remember at the time a report that police found an illegally modified weapon in his possession.  It may have been a .22 semi automatic rifle, which with the right parts and some basic tools can easily be modified to be a 5.56mm semi or fully automatic rifle, i.e. an AR-15, which civilians may not own and the penalties are up to 10 years in prison.

So far he has been convicted of carrying weapons into a park, possession of carcasses and attempting to bribe a government official but the most obvious charge of poaching has not been pursued "for lack of evidence" despite the conviction for possession of poached carcasses.  It is odd that no one is to be punished for the act of turning the animals into carcasses.  

So far he is getting off lightly.

I have no personal experience of this but a friend living in Hong Kong asked me for advice in claiming her husband's Thai bank account.  He wasn't living in Thailand but opened an account because he had business here and travelled frequently to Bangkok.  He died suddenly.  Although she had a will and Hong Kong probate, the Thai bank needed a court order from a Thai court in order to release the funds and had to travel to Thailand to get this. Of course they also needed the will, probate and other documents translated to Thai and certified by the Chinese or home country embassy and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  I think that may be the Thai equivalent of probate. In the end the amount in the account wasn't enough for her to go through this process and have the hassle and expense of at least two trips to Bangkok to get it all done.

It will be worth it for the OP's overseas family, as he says the Thai assets are substantial, but it may involve some effort and trips to Thailand to get it all done.  To remit overseas will involve some documentation.  I have never seen inheritance as grounds for remittance overseas but I believe it is possible.

The OP didn't mention if he had any Thai family he might also wish to be beneficiaries.

18 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I don't think the naval base makes much difference, but you are right, always have a plan B, C and D. A quick look into Thailand's history and checking the dates gives some light. F.ex. it seems pensioneers were added in 1996 to the "others" category of the immigration rules. Just happened to be the tom yam crisis that time, I bet the money was welcome then. Now it's bye bye and thanks for all the fish.

 

Always one leg out.

Thailand was still in denial about the economy in 1996, despite the warnings of some foreign economists who were told by the Bank of Thailand their findings were based on out of date data.  The financial meltdown hit the following year in 1997.

19 hours ago, DrTuner said:

IIRC PRs also have to visit and get new alien book every five years? 

 

They do love their surveillance.

I didn't object to 5 year reporting to the local cop shop as it only took a few minutes, except it usually involved a second visit to pick it up.  Anyway you still have to get a new ID card every 8 years as a Thai citizen, until you are over 70.  Then they think you are just about to drop off the hook and few will make it to 78, so no point in asking you to come back again.  Driving licence is lifetime for those who got them before around 2003.  Thai passports should be moving to 10 year renewal from 5 when the company that won the bidding recently gets its act together.

Actually, according to the 1950 Registration of Aliens Act even permanent residents have to report to the district office when they stay in another province for 7 days or more.  This has to be done within 48 hours of a 7 day stay, i.e. within 9 days of arriving in the new province.  However, I have never heard of anyone doing this, or of any attempts to enforce it.  Obviously, if you actually move to another province or district, you need to report the DO to get your new address in your tabien baan. I did this about 3 months late once and got fined B100.