Arkady

2 hours ago, brianinbangkok said:

I let my PR expire due to corona virus in March ,no longer working in TH there seems no way to get it back, 

this would be nothing less than a miracle that if the details allow I will get it reinstated.

Since it expired in March you would have a good chance of being covered, if they do come up with a waiver of Section 51.

Strange that the boyfriend didn't mind going on a 10 hour car trip with her when she was displaying symptoms and waiting for the results of her test.

1 minute ago, Abmong said:

That's what Trump is peddling and his own advisor Dr Fauci is not supporting... I'm more inclined to believe the good Doctor over Trump.

No one, not France, not China are saying it works, quite the opposite, even Thailand's own medical study found it has no effect other than as a placebo. You're better off drinking hot lime juice with no sugar... Cheaper too.

 

Besides faith in Trump? We don't do that here.

There seems no clear evidence that Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine is an effective therapy and it can have nasty side effects.  The same is true of the existing anti-virals including HIV treatments that have been touted in Thailand. Azithromycin is just a broad spectrum antibiotic which is known to have some effect on some viruses.  Its side effects are much less than the other suggested treatments and it can also help prevent opportunistic bacterial infections, e.g. bacterial pneumonia, which is what killed most of the Spanish Flu victims, from adding to patients' woes.

5 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

you don't have to believe any numbers, you just have to go to any

thai hospital and see if it looks like a corona outbreak hospital.

there is no way to hide or deny when the outbreak happans.

the hospitals are just full of people coughing and acctually dying everywhere.

people cough blood and fall dead in the streets, shops, offices.

this is happaning right now in new york.

this is what happaned in wuhan china (only when it allready happaned, 

the chinese governemt started to act).

and this is NOT happaning in thailand. 

maybe the weather? maybe the good spirits? maybe another lighter mutation

of the virus?

let's just hope and pray it will stay this way, and go away in may.

My thoughts too. Keeping the new cases at not much over 100 a days seems nothing short of miraculous seeing as the powers that be just stood like rabbits caught in the head lights doing nothing during the critical warning stages and then precipitated the mass exoduses from cities to the countryside. 

I assume significant under reporting due both to lack of testing and the natural propensity to  make people believe things are better than they are until they are not. But they will not be able to conceal exponential growth, as in Italy, Spain, New York or even London, if it occurs because hospitals will be overwhelmed and bodies will be piling up. 

Could it be the warm weather, the fact that BCG vaccinations are still routine in Thailand?  We can but hope.

Or do they know something very nasty that they are not sharing with us?

The article in the unmentionable newspaper is on its website and is easy to find.  It says that Immigration is proposing certain visa measures to the cabinet, one of which is to extend the one year limit on renewal of endorsements for permanent residents.  Immigration said that, if the measure is approved, PRs would have to return to Thailand as soon as possible after the travel restrictions finish.  If this is true it is great that someone actually goes in to bat for PRs who are all too often ignored, as in the recent measures that didn't allow PRs without WPs to return home.

As usual the devil will be in the details and the article doesn't say exactly how Immigration is proposing that the cabinet should deal with this in view of Section 51 of the 1979 Immigration Act (below), which has always been the reason that PR lapsed if not renewed in time, no ifs or buts.  If we read Section 51 carefully, it is clear that it merely allows PRs, whose PR has lapsed due to contravention of the one year rule, to reapply for PR under the normal conditions, i.e. all it means is that lapsed PRs are not barred from reapplying. This represented a reform of earlier Immigration Acts which required PRs (Chinese) to return their red books to Immigration and cancel their PR before they departed the Kingdom for more than one year in order to be eligible to reapply for PR, which was a relatively fast and inexpensive process, on their return to the Kingdom.  With lengthy travel times in the past and the need for extended trips back to China for education or to take care of business, this was not uncommon. In today's context that means still being qualified under Sections 12 and 44 which means still working and getting six month extensions again under Section 45 until the Immigration Commission has recommended reinstatement of PR and the minister has signed.  It also means paying the full fees again. 

Normally an Act of Parliament would be required to amend Section 51.  However, I am of the opinion that Prayut has the power to issue an emergency decree to waive its provisions temporarily in extraordinary circumstance.  That would allow Immigration to admit PRs to the Kingdom on their lapsed re-entry permits and to renew lapsed endorsements.

Fingers crossed.  Let's wait and see.

Section 51 : Any alien who has formerly resided in the Kingdom but has no document of departure for
return or has a document of departure for return, but has not returned to the Kingdom in reference to the
time prescribed in Section 48 and the alien wishes to take up residence in the Kingdom again , he must
submit an application in accordance with the procedure as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations for
consideration and approval. When the Immigration Commission considers that the alien has reason and
proper excuse and he is not excluded from entry under Section 12 and Section 44 , the alien may be
permitted to enter to take up residence in the Kingdom under the concurrence of the Minister, but the
alien has to receive a new Residence Certificate. The provision of Section 45 Para.2 shall be applied
Mutatis Mutandis while waiting for permission.
The provisions in Section 12 (1) concerning visa , (2),(3) and (9) shall not apply with the case as
provided in the first paragraph of this section.
The applicant must pay fees as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Can you still apply for PR if you currently don't have a work permit, but previously had one and met all the tax etc criteria? 

I've been putting this off until I get some spare time and seem to remember that if you get the details from companies you have worked for then you can still apply for PR.

Unfortunately not.  You need to have a current work permit and to have been working three years without a break with three years' salary tax receipts. You can change jobs within the three year qualifying period, if there is no break, but I believe that nowadays they require you to be in the same job for at least one year before you apply. 

1 hour ago, fforest1 said:

Is 57 considered elderly?

No. They said over 60.

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

That is right. But my book is not red. A very faded red that it looks like a brown colour. It was like that when I first got it. They must have printed a pile of these books 100 years ago and they have been sitting in a cupboard somewhere at the police station. The binding comes unstuck easily. 

They were red when they printed massive stocks after they were first issued following the original 1927 Immigration Act for the thousands of Chinese coolies that were coming off the boats every year then. The glue was in better condition then too. Since the flow of coolies dried up and they made it hard to get PR, it may take a few more decades to use up the stocks and issue some kind of smart card to PRs.

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

In Ubon they were not interested in the pink ID card. They didn't even want copies. It was the blue tabian baan book and the old red-brown PR book that they inspected closely and wanted signed copies of every page (which I had). The latter is what the big boss said was most important. 

It is not surprising they are not interested in the pink card.  It is nothing to do with PR.  They are designed for stateless people which is why they say you can't leave your district without permission on them. They are only issued to PRs as a by-product of the 2008 amendment to the Civil Registration Act that requires district offices to register everyone including foreigners and stateless persons residing in their districts and issue them identification.  They are now also issued to foreigners on NON-B visas and marriage and retirement extensions. Also for ID but not a document that shows your immigration status like red book.

31 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

I got my new 5-year drivers licence last week in Ubon Ratchathani. One had to listen to the seminar on-line and register with one's ID number and drivers licence number. When the first 5-year driver's licence were issued some years ago, my PR ID number was used. Then 5 years ago they refused to accept my ID number and would only accept my passport number. This time, there was much discussion at the desk about the PR ID number and PR. The ladies there didn't have a clue about PR. Fortunately, the guy in charge knew all about PR and my PR ID number was accepted. 

It's a pity there is so much ignorance about PR even amongst government officials. It is so difficult and expensive to get it and involves lugging around so many books and photocopies but it often counts for naught, e.g. the recent situation where the emergency decree gave preference to foreigners on one year visas with work permits.

2 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Banning your own citizens from entering their country.  The world governance bar has been lowered to an unprecedented low.  The US and other nations watched as Cambodia allowed a cruise ship dock, ending hardship of many people.  Cambodia also allowed self reliant Brits to arrange a charter flight out of the country when the British embassy refused to help its citizens.  A very low bar indeed.  

Under the Thai constitution it is prohibited to prevent a Thai citizen from entering the Kingdom.  There are no exceptions allowed.

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They forgot  those on PR who don't have a valid work permit when they wrote the latest restrictions.

Those with PR should of been given the same status as Thai nationals. If somebody with PR and no work permit should contact the Thai embassy to find out if they can help to issue a "fit to fly" letter and some sort special entry allowance for them.

For those that are not aware of the latest restrictions under the emergency decree info is here.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

Permanent residents should have a prior claim over people on temporary visas with work permits. I agree that  PRs without work permits have been overlooked in drafting the regulations and I doubt that most Thai embassy staff abroad are familiar with PR, since they normally have nothing to do with it.  Who would normally carry their WP with them overseas anyway, specially if you have PR?

China has been more specific in actually prohibiting entry by foreingers with residence visas whcih are much harder to obtain than Thai PR. Tough luck for anyone who doesn't have anywhere else to live and is stranded away from family.

1 hour ago, brianinbangkok said:

Hi, after renewing my Thai PR for the last 10 years living abroad (EU) I have let it go due to in part travel restrictions and risk of infection, as I know : not returning within a year cancels the PR and this is set in stone. However I do remember a guy from the amateur radio club who was able to re-apply and got it back the next year.

Paid 97k fee.

He was no longer working when he did this. Now my question is has anybody done this recently ? My guess a few others might be in same situation soon.

Do you need 3 years WP again and start all over ?

If so I will go for a Thai passport as I am married to a Thai.

 

It's not an urgent issue as I no longer live in TH but may return one day.

 

PS anybody got a phone number of PR section.

I know someone who got his PR cancelled because he was unable to get back in time due to circumstances that were demonstrably beyond his control.  Immigration was very sympathetic and and helped him reapply and he got it back within a year but he was still working at the time.  I don't know if they can readily make an exception to the WP requirement for former PRs reapplying but it would be worth asking, if you want it back.  For Thai citizenship you need 3 years' WP, although the minimum salary is only 40k, if married to a Thai.  I can't see them waiving the work requirement for citizenship.

In the UK they are trying to dissuade people from using their stay at home time to visit tourist spots like the Lake District and the Scottish Highlands. I imagine that Chonburi is keen to keep Bangkokians out at this point.

"If you have a little of the virus you may get more and symptoms could get much worse."

They obviously want to dissuade people who have already got it with mild symptoms from going out thinking that they have nothing to lose as they can't catch it twice. It makes sense to say this, whether it is true or not, but I wonder if there is any scientific basis for the premise that you can catch a double dose. I remember reading that it was believed possible for HIV positive people to catch a second strain of HIV.

On 3/25/2020 at 10:37 AM, Neeranam said:

Most naturalized citizens I know have had delays of one kind or another, military coups, change of leader, etc.

Hopefully, things will be back to normal soon. I was speaking with Chinese colleagues last night and they say Shanghai is back to normal(after 2 months 'house arrest')

Many, including myself have been greatly affected by this damn flu. Stay safe all! 

Courage mes braves!  Indeed, most of us have endured drought, pestilence, revolution or petty bureaucratic obstacles along this road. In my case the last coup came just after I had completed the oath taking which meant a six month delay before any more announcements could be made in the RG following two earlier three and six month delays caused by petty bureaucratic obstacles that appeared in my path. Just be patient and keep your good selves and your families safe and all good things will come to you once the pestilence subsides.

Are the inter provincial checkpoints already up between Bangkok and its surrounding provinces?

2 hours ago, lkn said:

The couple are not in their 20s or 30s, the women is quoted as being 40.

 

At that age you should know better, or at least know that if you travel in the midst of a pandemic, where a lot of flights have already been cancelled, you are very likely to be stuck somewhere, and if you do, don’t “tweet the Prime Minister” and expect a response (yes, the article mentions she did that).

 

Actually, you don’t have to go back more than 10 years with the eruption of Eyjafjallajökull in Iceland, which closed most of Europe’s airspace and also left a lot of people stranded in Asia.

 

That was actually *less* predictable than this current situation, as the writing has definitely been on the wall for quite some time. Case in point, the ministry of foreign affairs in my country not only advised everyone to get back home weeks ago, they also texted me directly about open seats on a plane leaving for Scandinavia a few days ago, and yesterday I got another text basically saying “if you don’t leave now, don’t expect *any* planes at all after 1st of April”.

 

Sad story but sounds like they must have flown out to Thailand around mid March when things were already looking dicey and the risk of being stranded was rising daily. I think I would have cancelled.

31 minutes ago, Virt said:

Bought 3 large bottles of hand sanitizer while in Thailand to use at home.

1 seem legit enough from Kings stella , but the 2 others noname brand had very bad spellings labeled on them.

 

So decided to boil some from the 2 noname brands.

Boiled 2 Deciliters and it started to boil at about 65-70 degrees, so i guess i should get rid of those?

The boiling points she gave are for unadulterated methyl and ethyl alcohol.  So you would need to seperate the alcohol from gooey stuff and purify it first. Ethyl alcohol sold in Thailand for for household use is only 70% with the rest water and chemicals to denature it and make you throw up, if you drink it.  I am guessing the gel added to the alcohol would make it boil at a lower boiling point but water would make it boil at a higher point. 

Hand sanitiser made with the household 70% alcohol is unlikely to strong enough to kill all germs because the sanitiser needs to be at least 60% alcohol.  If they are a third gel and other additives, that only makes them about 45% alcohol. They need to be made with 95% or 99% ethyl alcohol which is available in Thailand for industrial use.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/07/health/coronavirus-mutations-analysis/index.html

A slightly different view on mutation for interest.

Someone should jail the Ebay vendors who are charging $24 for a single $2 N95 mask.

13 minutes ago, dogfish180 said:

How are 322 people a burden on the health system?? ???? Or is there something you aren't sharing with us?

That number is not a great burden on the healthcare system.  The concern is that the number can rapidly ramp up to tens of thousands.  Italy went from 80 reported cases to 30,000 in about a month.

One thing I am not clear about is the definition of Patients under investigation (PUI) in the MOPH stats. Anyone know the answer?