placnx

23 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Yes, that's a pretty simple system and I'm sure it worked well for the tiny numbers of people who needed it.

 

Now scale it up to everyone who travels anywhere in the world at all times.

 

Add in a few hundred million people who won't take any kind of vaccination because they're 'antivaxers' and then there's the people who have allergies to vaccines (millions more).

 

How do you address vaccines which have efficiency levels of say 55% compared to the vaccines that have an efficiency level of 95%?

 

Does everyone get treated the same? Highly unlikely.

 

The countries will pick and choose who they allow in and it will be based on which vaccine they've had, that's where it starts to get complicated, very complicated.

 

In theory it's a good idea but in practice there's no way it will work properly.

 

That's why we need not just a QR card but a system of databases to hold vaccination records but also keep up to date information of all the vaccines. I think that we should also see if the manufacturers would use blockchain to document the distribution of vaccines to the level of clinics to lessen the possibility of swapping or faking vaccines.

As for people who have valid issues and are unable to be vaccinated, ideally they should be required to provide substantial proof, so a hospital where they receive treatment could document that on the vaccination record. What happens when they arrive at an airport depends on the airline and immigration. They would probably have to undergo antigen testing pre-flight and maybe quarantine, maybe RT-PCR or antibody tests on arrival.

On 2/6/2021 at 1:56 PM, Morch said:

 

And bio-metric documents (passports and the like) can't be forged or tampered with. Sure.

The QR code on paper being linked to a specific individual would be of no benefit to a forger.

On 2/6/2021 at 1:03 PM, 4MyEgo said:

 

We are all destined to pass in this life, fact !

 

I remember what my father said to me once, i.e. he saw that I was stressed over something and said son; I have been where your coming from, think about it for a minute, you are allowing all of those thought in your mind to run around and stress you, while you have absolutely no control over them, so accept that, you have no control.

 

When you realise that you have no control, you can then take control of what you could not control and only then can you enjoy your life, it's simple, fear and panic only causes you to stress, and it is part of our society and will be around for as long as you allow it to control you.

 

Do I still stress, only when I get on TVF ????

 

 

 

Great points you make about stress, and how reading TV could be stressful.

I am not frightened for personal safety or mortality, but rather for the ability of this deadly virus this to rapidly gather a dozen or so mutations in one variant that then can reduce the efficacy of vaccines. The South African variant is reducing the efficacy of some vaccines to the point that several producers are working on boosters. If vaccinated people end up getting a little sick rather than being hospitalized, that's good but it might do little to keep them from passing the infection to others.

Booster after booster is really not the ultimate solution with a virus that can circulate so rapidly. It's just not a practical solution to be giving the whole world a jab every year or so. It will not be an optional vaccination as is the case for flu vaccine. The problem is that we don't seem to have enough production capacity for the mRNA vaccines to be able to get them around the world quickly enough to keep ahead of current and future variants. We want to get to the point where contact tracing of outbreaks is an option.

10 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

OTA like everything else.......

To be clear, I was asking whether the data in the chip under someone's skin could be updated. Please clarify.

15 hours ago, Morch said:

 

One thing I've learned about security measures, codes and whatnot, is to expect them to be breached etc.

If for example a card is being used by someone other than the person associated with its QR code, it will show as soon as the QR code is scanned.

26 minutes ago, Pique Dard said:

good news! when they become adults, they'll move  to the uk and tell china not to interfere with british politics!

They could only get to the UK with parents who were born before 1997. Not sure whether the parents need to already have the BNO passports.

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

There is only going to be one " Vaccine Passport " that will become a viable option Globally.

Love it , or hate it the only option will be for an under the skin Micro Chip.

There are too many reasons to do this , including the fact that it cannot be transferred, or copied so easily, and its quick to read for immigration Staff.

Of course, the details it carries will have to be ironed out, but there really is only a need for Name Nationality Vaccine applied and its Date/s 

Can this chip under the skin be updated?

4 hours ago, Morch said:

Passports can be faked. Stands to reason the new addition could be too. What then?

Going to be a hot commodity in some circles, that's for sure.

Or put it otherwise, it relies on officials worldwide, and in a wide range of countries and cultures being beyond taking that envelope.

You are right about these vaccine passports that were shown in mock up. However, an effective card would work by having a QR code unique to the individual which could be read at check-in, immigration and would bring up the vaccine record on the national database where their vaccination is recorded. If the vaccination was out of date, etc, this would also be signaled, so appropriate decisions could be taken, such as requiring test(s) on the spot.

Actually the QR code could be read when booking a flight, so that the passenger could get a booster or whatever before travel, if needed.

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Unlikely as I'm pretty sure COVID will be around forever

 

 

 

 

You are quite possibly correct, since it will take big resources to conquer. US and others would have to identify the preferred vaccine platforms and build big production facilities so that the world can be vaccinated much more rapidly. The speed of mutation and emergence of "improved" variants is frightening. 

8 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes, His ORGANISATION - a non profit sent funds to the lab. He never worked there and was never lab manager. He didn't give them technology either. Spread your conspiracy theories elsewhere please. They're not welcome here.

I suggest that you read the link which I provided above which reveals in detail what that transferred technology does, which strongly suggests that various articles such as the one in Nature Medicine denying a lab origin/creation should be discounted. This is the article in question:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

Lab origin is not a conspiracy theory. It is an hypothesis.

4 hours ago, John Drake said:

And as mutations continually develop, just how many vaccines will you need to put in your "passport?"

It would make sense that the WHO card work in conjunction with a database that will have up to date data on all vaccines, such as how long their vaccinations continue to protect, filtered by age of vaccinee. When other vaccinations, boosters, are given the card would be updated.

5 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

Can I use my LINE QR code as authorization?  ????

Doubtful, but a QR code should be very useful if used on Estonia's WHO card project.

21 hours ago, ukrules said:

If this happens (which I doubt) then it won't happen for years, will be some half arsed private enterprise and largely not  backed by the governments of the world.

 

By the time everyone agreed on some international standard which covers all sorts of different vaccines COVID will be a non issue.

 

We're talking about the entire EU, the US and many other countries all agreeing on some common system - they might as well just give up on the idea now.

 

Estonia is working on an updated "digital" WHO vaccination card. This matter should be managed by governments, and these private ad hoc solutions will only help to the extent that they contribute useful technological innovations.

This Covid may last longer than you think, and subsequent epidemics will be around forever, so such a WHO card should have all vaccinations recorded. The idea is to prevent an epidemic from becoming a pandemic. 

16 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Oh, you would like to see China getting a kicking ?  What do you suggest ?  Military action against them ? Do you reckon missiles and bombs ?

Yes, okay, you reckon that because of what China has already done, the US should actually go ahead with a military strike ? I really do hope that war never takes place between America and China.

The scary thing is, I think about a third of all people have the same opinion as you. 

The question is whether China might eventually annoy enough countries that a reset would be declared on UN and WTO, goodbye China. Rather far-fetched at this point, but what will Xi do next?

5 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Your post isn't correct.

 

1) Daszack was never the lab manager. He works (present tense - He is the president of EcoHealth Alliances) for a non-profit that provides funding to different projects. He is also on the ground now as a member of the W.H.O team in China. He has NEVER worked at the W.I.V (Wuhan Institute of Virology)

 

2) The lab has operated since 1956 and has been working on MERS/SARS since 2003

 

3) Funding came from Eco Health alliances - a global non profit. This non-profit received funds from the government and the non-profit provided funding.

I would suggest that you, everybody, read the following.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

Then we can have an informed discussion. Daszak was the conduit for funds from NIH, but he also got them a crucial technology from the US.  

5 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Very interesting comments about this American run lab in Wuhan where Dr Peter Daszack an Englishman was the lab manager and he worked for a company called Ecohealth Alliances Inc whose offices are located in New York. Batwoman was employed at that lab and it has operated since 2014 to do research after the MERS and SARS viruses. This lab was funded by America since the Obama Administration in 2014. The research was not only done in China but it was also done in Australia and France. Here is the website of American National Institute of Health showing in its projects about this lab and the people who worked in it and the work that was carried out. 

Project Information - NIH RePORTER - NIH Research Portfolio Online Reporting Tools Expenditures and Results

https://projectreporter.nih.gov/project_info_results.cfm?aid=8674931&icde=49588715

The following is the most thorough investigation and analysis of evidence of the escape theory that I've encountered:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html

5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And I totally agree with "It is not about  Authoritarian Vs Democracy  or communism Vs Capitalism. "
I reckon it's more about "America using the issue of Taiwan as an excuse to declare war on China, just in case if America does want to fight China" .   ????
See, that vast trade deficit that America has got with China. Them billions of US government bonds that China has got. How can America clear these bonds held by China ? Well, defeat China in a war, that will do it. 

These are conspiracy theories. Where did you find them?

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

The 2047 pledge was actually part of President Xi Jinping's speech but stepped short of issuing a firm deadline. It is meant more as a carrot and stick offering to Taiwan. In his speech he offered Taiwan a peaceful unification under a One-China-two-systems policy. No doubt Taiwan take this offer with much apprehension after what happened in Hong Kong. Whether the future Presidents may have their own policy dealing with the Taiwan issue. 

 

The Taiwanese politics and their citizens will have a big role on the eventualities of the issue. Pro China and pro independence political parties have been occupying the seat of the government for last 70 years. Opinion polls showed that only a small minority of Taiwanese support pursuing one or the other at the moment with most preferring to stick with the current middle ground. Seem practical as Taiwan's economy is heavily dependent on China. Taiwanese have invested almost 60 B in China and has up to 1 million of their people working in China, most running their own factories. Similarly, this economic factor may just be the deterrent to any military action because of the cost to China's economy. 

 

IMHO I think both sides will continue with the current status quo. At the end of the day, if the Taiwan continue to prosper and the middle class keep growing and Taiwan maintain their very low percentage of citizens living below poverty line, politics will cancel out their pursuit of independence. But all in the future and we both are not fortune tellers. 

Yes, the Taiwanese want to maintain the status quo, but what has been changing is that the party which has inherited the KMT mantle has been forced by events in Hong Kong to distance itself from the concept of eventual unification. So now they are solidly in the middle position - status quo. Is that just for appearances? 

On 2/1/2021 at 5:05 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

 The United Nations ?   The UN Security Council ? ????

You're forgetting that China is one of the Big Five in the UN.  USA, Britain, France, Russia and China are the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, and each one has the vital importance of the 'power of veto'.

And by the way, why is it that them five are in that powerful position ? Well, after World War Two, the League of Nations was converted to being the United Nations. And basically, the winners of World War Two chose to give themselves the special status of being permanent members of the security council, and having 'power of veto' over whatever issues.
A country having power of veto, means that country is allowed to play their 'power of veto' card, and it blocks whatever proposal.

And so, seeing as Peoples' Republic of China is one of the Big Five, well, the UN are not going to do much against China.   ????

Some countries want to reform the Security Council. The absolute power of veto was a tragic planning mistake in 1945. The UN has been so often undermined by this at critical moments. The UN would be out of the picture in a China/Taiwan conflict.

On 2/1/2021 at 11:11 AM, Eric Loh said:

US is unlikely to involve in a war between Taiwan and China as it would cause catastrophic harm to the country and may not even ensure they can help Taiwan win. The general public will again asked why Washington would defend an island thousands of miles away with seemingly high human and economic costs. Deja vu? A recent poll taken as early as in October revealed only 35% of Americans would support US military action if the island was attacked. Washington will continue with their strategic ambiguity in their Taiwan Relation Act (1979) which has no promises of military intervention. Trump adminstration made a lot of threats but remained to be ambigious without any direct change to the agreement. NATO has enough problems with Russia to be concerned and binded by their constitution on military aid to only NATO ally.

 

China too will not want a war with Taiwan and condemnation from the world. War with Taiwan will be costly in terms of casualties and economic for both countries and will be an extremely unpopular war of the same race. IMO, both countries will try to avoid war although we can accept some sabre rattling and skirmishes. Both countries have prospered  to a high living standard in last 70 days in the current defacto form. Both will not wish to risk destroying that status quo. 

You are right that most people in Taiwan and China would like to maintain the status quo, though people in Taiwan certainly don't like the way China under Xi is changing, becoming more and more belligerent.

As for Americans, most probably don't know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand, so if they are asked questions about defending Taiwan, the answer would be "no". As China has gotten a very negative image after Covid, more Americans will eventually become aware of the current China/Taiwan situation, and various implications. Any aggression on Taiwan would likely provoke a stronger popular reaction than recent events in Hong Kong, as Americans no doubt thought Britain should take the lead on reacting to China's move on HK.

The US can continue to provide defensive weapons without changing formal policy, but as China keeps upgrading offensive weapons it's logical that the US will provide a more potent defense. Obviously, at some point these defensive weapons could have a first strike capability, but it's China's choice to keep upping the ante. 

20 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Any particular literature they were more interested in than another?

They really liked my books on traditional Japanese architecture (probably the paper was from Japan).

20 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

They can eat through cement - very nasty things.  Is there any wood in your home (used to use for floor support and roofbeams as well as doorways and decretive).  Have only seen/had spray treatment (and drill holes in ground floor to get under house).  This is the normal pest control function here as they can make sawdust of wood very quickly.  And if you find a nest do not put your hand in it!!!  Our treatment man quite to become a monk due to his previous life of killing of termites, so that is another factor.  

 

 

The came through the cement slab on ground floor and ate a huge hole in my wool carpet, so yes, they can get through cement. In another room, somehow they came through a cement wall, perhaps via an electrical pipe, and ate 30 large format books. They seem to prefer glossy paper! They also nibbled the paper frames of slides.