placnx

1 hour ago, from the home of CC said:

imo this is a direct relation to Trump race baiting (for his constituents loved it at the time). If I was Asian I'd be looking to organize a class action against him, if he hadn't of opened his mouth these folks and others around the country would still be alive. 

Such a class action would be summarily dismissed. Trump's demonization of various groups certainly didn't help.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Well, this is very complex. I think Americans (of all political leanings) are feeling that China is eating our lunch by working harder and smarter than us. Plus they have the advantage of a one party government not holding back policies going forward. The U.S. isn't the first "empire" to have to deal with realizing that it's losing its hegemony. 

The outrage may be in good part related to the feeling that the US government has caused the problem, then remained clueless for so long (since Bush senior after Tienanmen).

3 hours ago, Antifreeze said:

How are Thais supposed to improve your their skills if knowledgeable foreigners cannot own a business and show how to perform a particular task? 

Right now foreigners cannot be majority owners in businesses and cannot perform specific tasks. 

The problem with this is perhaps we don't want the skills or barbarity of these fake Thais. If they buy IDs of dead people, what else might they do?

Since SARS scientists have been working on mRNA technology. Emergency authorization is an ethical decision. Eventual licensure will follow.

On 3/7/2021 at 9:13 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Got to agree with you 1,000% on this Pete and your welcome regarding the link, but appears your post/comment was removed, although I read a little in my email notification.

 

The Viral Immunologist as you say, is all for vaccinations, so he is PRO vaccinations, not against them and explains to us, what the governments, and health officials have failed to tell us or won't, WHY, because they fear we won't take our medicine which is, as he has more or less clearly stated, is still in the 3rd trial stage, (not exactly his words) but in my words, we are the guinea pigs at the moment because all of the data has not come back for this vaccine to grant it FDA approval under normal guidelines, in other words as they have been telling us, it's an "experimental vaccine" granted approval under the "emergency use" guidelines. People don't understand what is going on, they think "vaccine", yes sure, I get my jabs, always have, but all of the data has come back and they are approved under normal guidelines by the FDA, people don't realise that it takes up to 3-4 years for all of the data to come back, and they then decide whether to approve the vaccine based on the data.

 

What the governments and the media have done here is panic because of this respiratory disease COVID that spreads easily, but what they have failed to admit is that 80% of people don't even know they have it or show symptoms, it affects those with weak immune systems such as the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions, but they have shut the world down, destroyed economies in the process which will take forever to rebuild, I won't go on, that's another story, but hey Pneumonia killed 2.56 million people in 2017 which is pretty much the same as COVID and they don't shut the world down every year, ok it might not spread as fast as COVID, but is everyone just took a breath and kept social distancing, wore masks and washed their hands I am sure we would reach herd immunity eventually, and yes people will die, that is part of the process of life and death, and when they get all of the data back from the "experimental vaccine" under "emergency use" guidelines then they can say, as Ma from Ma and Pa Kettle would yell, "come and get it", at the moment they are lining everybody up for a vaccine which can kill them, give them adverse affects for years to come and there is NO COMPENSATION, why, because big pharma are not stupid, they cannot guarantee the "experimental vaccines" will not kill people or give them adverse affects for years to come, yes the numbers might be low, 4,000 deaths worldwide so far if you can find the true statistics or the governments are being honest. I personally do not trust them, they have to much to lose, they need to get their economies back up and running, but putting peoples lives on the line saying these vaccines are safe when all of the data is not in, is a blatant lie, the facts are people have died, people have been having adverse affects.

 

People are ignorant, they listen to what they are being told, they don't question authorities, they think they are there to help and guide them, just like the Thai's who never question or talk back, that is the way they have been taught, and when they protest, the authorities put their leaders in jail so as to cut off the head that is guiding them to what they want, democracy.

 

It frustrates me that people think they know everything, and yes there are conspiracist out there, but there are also people out there like this Dr who is not part of any organisation or moving who is calling a spade a spade, but do you think main stream media will give him a voice, nope, it's all part of the push to get everyone vaccinate for the good of everyone, now what if in 4-5-6 years time people start having major adverse effects or start dying off, can they guarantee that won't happen ?

 

I think the governments and health official need to be honest and come out with it, yet they are saying it is safe, how the F can they say that when all of the data is not in, perhaps they should say, look, it's as safe as we can see from the data we have, however it is an "experimental vaccine" and if things go wrong we have your back, but they won't because they know its a big risk to say that.

 

 

Only if it were so simple Pete, as the old saying goes; you can lead them to water but........

 

 

I am with you on that, I prefer someone to say, look, this is where we are at, this is what it is, and this is what it can do and as for what it does to you down the track is unknown, I can them make an informed decision, but when they hide things and sell something to be what is not known, I will tell the used car salesman, that I will get back to you.

 

All of the above said, I don't waste my time on those who don't want to put the effort in and look outside the square and do their own research because it takes too much time, but instead prefer to listen to what the authorities say unquestionably because they know best, like when George Bush Junior sent young American men into Iran to get killed over weapons of mass destruction that still to this day have never been found, yes different topic, but if you don't get my drift, then you never will.

 

Just look after yourself Pete, stay safe and keep researching, eventually the data will be in and then we can make an informed decision as to which vaccine will be the one, but until then the jury is out here and all over the world as I know we are not alone on this because there are actual people who are educated and think outside the square, questioning things as they should, and if COVID knocks on my door then I will deal with it best I can at the time as I would any other disease out there.

I watched a bit of the Bridle video. At 14:40+ it discussed the Merck Ebola vaccine, that it only took four years for licensure. A friend and his team created this vaccine and licensed it to Merck. It took about two years from the start of development for it to be used in Sierra Leone on around 3000 medical staff. This was ethical for health workers since it was so dangerous to be in direct contact with patients. Efficacy was around 96%.

It's different with Covid in that Covid is so much more infectious, and people can spread Covid without showing symptoms. So with even less evaluation time it's still ethical to administer this vaccine on a broad scale. This is going to be very difficult since there doesn't seem to be enough production capacity to keep ahead of the variants.

On 3/6/2021 at 7:25 PM, 7by7 said:

 

You're suggesting that the EU kick the RoI out of the customs union because of Brexit!

 

You appear to not know that what is now the RoI gained it's independence from the UK in 1922!

It's not a matter of separating Ireland from the Single Market. The idea is to use technology and preclearance to handle customs for the vast majority of goods. This would especially concern goods going back and forth multiple times in stages of production between Northern Ireland and the Republic. There was a lot of concern that a customs border would be counterproductive in this situation.

On 3/6/2021 at 8:42 PM, 7by7 said:

In fact, there is nothing in the Belfast Agreement which prohibits customs controls and  customs posts on the land border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. (Source)

 

However, Johnsons self praised Withdrawal Agreement sold out the Unionist population of Northern Ireland by replacing May's previously agreed with the EU backstop with his, previously rejected by May as something no British PM could ever agree to, protocol. This meant no customs border between North and South, instead one between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Effectively splitting the UK into two. 

 

Why did he do this? I can only surmise that as the rest of his WA is virtually identical to May's, which he vigorously opposed, he had to change something and he and his advisors (Cummings?) could think of nothing else.

 

Unless, despite being leader of the Conservative and Unionist party, he is actually a closet Irish nationalist!

 

The impression I got of the Backstop was that it was just pushing the can down the road. In order for Boris to have had a solid agreement there would had to be the technical solutions already worked out between Ireland and UK, but then there is the problem of Brussels.... It is not irrelevant to give the example of how vaccines have been handled by Brussels to understand the difficulties that Ireland and UK face in having any solution go through the Brussels gauntlet.

I'd like to know how it works if you're not Irish or Brit and you arrive in Ireland by air and want to visit Belfast and UK as well. Would there be different immigration channels available?

25 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

None the less an idiot, impressive or not, when stating that children should be covid-19 vaccinated.

We are starting to learn the extent to which transmission is blocked by specific vaccines. According to posts above, the trials for children are proceeding. It's normal to do these after trials for adults. We already know that children can transmit Covid, so following trial results if positive, then vaccinating kids will be the next order of business.

22 hours ago, jackdd said:

Just Google for: [Name of university] international program

Here for example for CMU: http://www1.reg.cmu.ac.th/reg-ipas/main/index.php

This is for high school graduates. How about graduate level courses to audit?

20 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

No....each country had the right to revert to their own approval procedures....circumventing the EMA.

But as stated by several commenters, for some reason none did. There is a point to solidarity, purchasing for the whole EU, but the problem is a cumbersome bureaucracy that has difficulty dealing with a pandemic that will not wait.

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Are you alleging that if the UK had stayed in the EU it wouldn't have been allowed to use the Astra zeneca vaccine until the EU approved? Not true.  So what would be different re vaccines if the UK had stayed in the EU?

Wouldn't the Brits have had to wait for approval for European Medicines Agency? Some EU countries have delayed even after approval. That's their problem.

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The NI protocol means exactly this!

 

 

Understandably the EU did not want an open customs border between themselves and a non member; something no other non member has.

 

The EU first suggested a customs border in the Irish Sea when May was PM. But as this would mean cutting off NI from the rest of the UK, she rejected it as something no British PM could ever agree to.

 

Her proposed agreement with the EU had the Irish Backstop to prevent a customs border between NI and GB.

 

The UK parliament rejected this; in part because it effectively kept the whole of the UK in the customs union until a final agreement was reached, but also because Johnson and his backers in the Tory party put Johnson's political ambition above country and used this as the opportunity to oust May.

 

Unionists also objected to it as they believed it favoured the Nationalists.

 

Having won power, Johnson brought back the notion of Great Britain leaving the customs union while Northern Ireland remined inside. Hence the customs border down the Irish sea.

 

To no one's surprise, except die hard "Brexit at all costs" supporters, this angered the Unionists even more than May's backstop.

 

Johnson sold out the Unionist population of Northern Ireland in order to get his version of Brexit done. If the Troubles start again, will history ever forgive him?

In order to protect the Good Friday Agreement, the EU could have made a concession by having a customs check between Ireland the island and mainland EU. This need not have been cumbersome if technology and preclearance of everything that regularly passed between Ireland and the mainland were registered in advance. UK items, if any, would have been covered by the same technology and preclearance as between the UK and mainland EU will be done, hopefully.

7 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Why bring Trump into the argument?Thailand has an average of 3000 seasonal flu deaths and they had 80 covid deaths so the flu is 37 times deadlier than covid! In Australia in 2019 they had 310,000 documented flu cases and only 29000 cases of Sars Cov 2 infections.You can play numbers all day if you want.

Australia and Thailand, fortunately, have had success in avoiding the typical Covid onslaught, so neither is a good candidate for comparing flu and Covid.

17 hours ago, sezze said:

Yes i know masks do a lot on stopping the spread if worn correctly . My answer was on the infection rate of people who are vaccinated vs non vaccinated , like a mask would lose their efficiency when the measures are taken out . Vaccinated people will get less sick in the same amount with or without masks . So if it works lets say 70% , then that would be also 70% without masks also , but more people will get infected , since masks still prevent rapid spread .

Actually, vaccination plus mask works incrementally. Especially with the Brazil variant we have to take more precautions if advance signs of infectiousness and mortality are confirmed.

20 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I disagree and my reason is that it would be interesting to see if the same criteria for testing and counting the numbers were to be applied to a bad flu season and how they would compare and see if the same level of fear could be raised  and then the same restrictions and need for vaccinations and lockdowns and mask wearing etc to be applied to protect the vulnerable.My main concern is that this has been a tad over blown and the situation has been taken advantage of by various parties.It will be interesting to see what happens with the next particularly virulent flu strain and season.  

More people in the US (500,000+) have died than American soldiers in Vietnam, WWII & WWI combined. This figure is around 10 times the number of annual flu fatalities in the US. You sound like Trump as Covid started affecting the US. Eventually he changed his tune. 

People who genuinely cannot be vaccinated should be able to get a document in lieu of the "passport".

20 hours ago, sezze said:

What has that got to do with it ? The results are based on real life situations , vaccinated vs non vaccinated , X- amount of people did get sick when being vaccinated vs Y-amount of people who did get the placebo who did get sick . If nobody got sick in both groups then there wasnt enough data ( theres also other things like antibody check ) to get it approved .

Wearing a mask together with vaccine will not make any difference in those numbers . Only thing what matters is , that you are much more likely to come in contact with the virus without mask / social distance ... , but the chance of infection vs non infection stays the same.

Stop posting bull***t .

This one simulates spread of virus with masks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/12/11/coronavirus-airborne-video-infrared-spread/

It makes a lot of difference whether the mask is properly fitted to the face.

15 hours ago, internationalism said:

but I did write "data about vax or being ill or positive in the past can be incorporated in those applications", so all important medical info about covid can be in one application, to be easily accessible.

No need for yet another document to be carried to such trivial places like pub or disco. Formally foreigners suppose to carry their passports at any time.

Everybody carries smartphone, that's good enough.

 

So far there's insufficient uptake of these apps to accomplish anything useful.

3 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Under what circumstances?If it can be proven that vaccines are 100% effective in stopping transmission there might be a cases for allowing vaccinated people entry  without quarantine.Generally I'm against quarantine.I don't believe most of the restrictions are warranted.

Quarantine would be appropriate for people who cannot get vaccinated, for example. Anyway, testing would be the minimum.

13 hours ago, Negita43 said:

"Anyone who can afford international travel can afford a cell phone (a basic cell phone can be purchased for $100) - thus an App on a phone makes perfect sense. "

 

That's true but your statement ignores all the privacy issues associated with cellphones - or perhaps you agree that your location, personal information and access to a bank acount is fair game to anyone (including governments). 

Sad to say people who do not have cell phones (by choice or otherwise) are becoming second class citizens,

If we want to stop Covid we have to go well beyond people with smartphones. Anyway, it's not necessary for the traveler to have an app. Do it the other way around: The people who vaccinate, check your status, have apps to check your QR code printed on a physical card and/or in your passport.

On 2/5/2021 at 10:11 AM, FarFlungFalang said:

I agree he is rather a fan of the AZ vaccines but he states his reasons as being ease of transportation,storage and price all of which seem valid arguments.I don't always agree with everything he says but as you say he does give some nice updates.I think the Sputnik vaccine suffers largely from "cold war syndrome" and probably doesn't get the same consideration and attention as those of the west and the same would apply to the Chinese vaccines for various reasons some maybe valid some maybe not valid but probably mostly due to trust.

Finally my last sentence was addressing richard_smith237's view that my reasons for not requiring vaccines prior to travelling were selfish which I denied and say that my reason for rejecting the proposal that vaccines should be required before being able to travel.

Then would you accept going in to quarantine?

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Yes Sheryl, we shall see more of these Virus cross overs from Animals to Humans.

One such worrying Virus, that the WHO and many others have there beady eyes on is called Nipah Virus, which has a very high Mortality Rate 

CEPI has contracted three companies to create vaccine candidates for Nipah. They have similar projects for other zoonotic viruses. 

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

Classic, if you want to drag out a decision, appoint a committee or order a study. Or both.

 

In this case though, I actually agree with the approach. The medium to long term impact of vaccinations isn't sufficiently known yet. Not all vaccines are effective against all mutations, nobody knows how long immunity will last, etc. etc.

We need a system that will constantly update protection parameters of individual vaccines so that as knowledge evolves we can know whether we might need testing, quarantine, etc.

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

How valid will the Thai vaccine "passport" be if it means the vaccination may have been with the Sinovac vaccine? Will other countries approve people entering with Sinovac if it is not approved in those countries?

Yes, this is a problem. Anyone making a reservation should be able to use their "vaccination passport" or whatever to check whether they will be admitted to their destination and under what circumstances, such as quarantine, testing, etc. They might then choose an alternate destination. If Sinovac is the vaccine, China would work, I guess.

15 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

Idiocy knows know bounds. The implementation issues associated with a globally interoperable and secure digital cert (that has both validity and integrity) are not insignificant. Not to mention the fact that there are currently no fewer than 6+ different vaccines (worldwide) being administrated... Some different vastly effectiveness. Which ones would be recognized as legit. Seems like a non starter. 

4 hours ago, hioctane said:

I believe there is an internationally accepted efficacy for vaccine approval and that is around 50%. It shouldn’t matter which vaccine you took as long as it meets international standards.

 

These digital vaccine passports would have safeguards in place. You couldn’t just pass it around. 

Cabradelmar mentions valid points about unwieldy vaccine passports. It would make sense to have an international scientific committee, not subject to WHO politics, maintain a vaccine database that would inform national vaccination databases as to validity issues concerning individual vaccines in use worldwide. "Vaccine passports" not digitally linked to their national databases would not be fit to purpose.

Hioctane mentions the 50% standard. It is an unfortunate WHO standard that many countries may ignore, so people immunized with low standard vaccines arriving in countries with high vaccine standards may find themselves going to quarantine  (assuming that they could get on the airplane). With such an infectious virus, this 50% standard is a stopgap. This is not the common flu.

3 hours ago, rucker4012 said:

The IATA , an international airline group is working on an APP called Travel Pass. Beta with 3 mid east airlines in Feb 2021. Expects to be out in March, 2021. Has facial recognition to preclude impostors. If accepted by most airlines, seems to be solution to universality of problem.

Here is the Q&A from IATA:

https://www.iata.org/contentassets/2b02a4f452384b1fbae0a4c40e8a5d0c/travel-pass-faqs.pdf

It does not have facial recognition, but is certainly a mix of interesting technology. It will only work for getting on airplanes or hopefully clearing immigration, not going to bars!