lannarebirth

We invite one and all to comment here, and I'd like to hear a reasonable, workable, Thai-style method of vetting applicants to teach in Thailand.

Who will pay for it?

Who knows how to verify background?

Will the law be passed by the Thai govt. and implemented by the MoE? In what decade?

How do we know a report is reliable? How do mistakes get corrected?

Can Khun Sasapacha in the admin. dept. of the school, who earns 4,500 per month, figure out how to do her part?

What about teachers who became "teachers" after leaving their home country? Even the passport doesn't prove where they've lived all their life.

I welcome a solution to this problem. And to the problems of visas, work permits, teachers' licenses, broken contracts, teachers who run away, etc.

Is there an organization, association of affiliation that most expat teachers belong to? I see a shitstorm about to rain down on you mostly fine folks, and I would think it would be terribly beneficial to have some association to speak on your behalf citing your desire to see rigorous background checks, high standards, etc.. I wouldn't worry to much about the details but I'd think you'd sure want to get in front of this thing before the parents and schools start looking to scapegoat folks. I think I'd put all those things you want on the back burner for now .

On the other hand, this is Thailand and maybe the whole thing blows over by Monday.

Troll.

Peculiar change coming over this website. A guy who asks a genuine question of interest is branded a troll for no good reason I can see, but no one says a word about a guy who kills a bunch of dogs and instructs others how to do the same.

Would like to purchase a microscope set/kit for my 9-yr old daughter. Should be kid-friendly but not a flimsy toy one. The Discovery Channel has a nice kit available in the States (pic below). Would love to find something similar.

Anyone familiar with an educational/science related store in Chiang Mai that might carry a microscope kit for sale? Much thanks in advance!

_ihop

On one of the upper florrs at Airport Central Plaza there is a shop that sells telescopes. I know that's not what you're inquiring about, but they may sell microscopes or be able to order one, or know who does sell them.

There is something a bit off here. I have not seen tv news footage, but the body language in the stills posted here seems to say ‘look at me’ and not ‘I’m sorry.’

I don't watch TV, but I just saw a clip on CNN.com amd I have to agree. For a guy who was just taken by surprise by the Thai authorities, doing the perp walk into the Big Tiger this guy looked amazingly cool and detached and chatty, Looked more a drama queen than anything else. Sumpthin' ain't right here.

Maybe time to consider BOYCOTTING Laos

No way out

The Hmong, the last casualties of a war that officially ended in 1975, are still dying.

Not just dying: they are being wiped out. Hunted, shot, bombed, blown up by landmines, starved to death – by the Lao military, possibly with the help of the Vietnamese. Why?

They are officially traitors – and, by grotesque extension, so are their children and grandchildren.

In the past few years, hundreds, perhaps thousands of Hmong have fled Laos; many are now in refugee camps in Thailand, from where they are sometimes forced back to Laos and likely death.

Amnesty International reports that a group of 27 Hmong, 22 of them children, mostly girls aged between 12 and 16, were arrested in Thailand while they were visiting a church last November and deported; they are now in prison and are believed to be being treated badly, possibly tortured.

The Lao authorities deny responsibility, but “Disturbing reports of repression, arbitrary detention and violent attacks continue to emerge from the Lao jungle,” says Kate Allen, Amnesty’s UK director.

I raised the matter with Soutsakhone Pathammavong, the Lao ambassador in Paris. His reply was to deny that any Hmong were being killed by his government’s army........more.....

with thanks to Philip Blenkinsop .....

and ...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...2278657,00.html

Very little of what one reads has any basis in fact. Yes, the Vietnamese are pushing this genocide agenda, but it's not because of the Hmongs assistance to the US during the Vietmnam war(which was for their own defense as well); it's because Lao has such a small population that if the Hmong were allowed to stay, they would be the majority population in only a couple generations, being as how they start having children at about 13 years of age. That is unaceptable to the Vietnamese, the defacto leaders of the Lao PDR. Lao is having a lot of turmoil of late as different Vietnamese and Chinese factions withing the government jockey for power. Any way you look at it the Hmong come out losers. The USA took in 14,500 Lao Hmong last year, most of whom weren't even alive during the Vietnam conflict. I think they just agreed to take 8,500 Burmese Karen. These are VERY difficult cultures to assimilate, but in time they will.

Those who have made comments about the UN doing something don't seem to know how they operate. The UN never does anything without a sponsor. The US calls the UN and says we'll take 8,500 Karen. The UNHCR and IOM then go into action to process "registered" refugees for their client the US. The UN has never done anything on it's own, ever, as far as I know.

I do not enforce polite behavior, it's not my job, especially if it's directed at me, I just take notice. Some people are not impolite, they are just stupid, or socially blind. Sometimes though I do hear intended disrespect, mostly of childish nature - let me call him "farang" and see if I can get away with it attitude.

About a year after I came to Thailand, it was my great good fortune to be invited to live on the estate, and in the home of a Lanna princess here in Chiang Mai. This lady is worldly, elegant, and at all times showed the height of good manners; whether it be a "local" person coming to ask a favor, or an audience with the King and Queen. She treated me as if I were family and took it upon herself to see to my social well being. Toward that end she'd introduce me to provincial governors, former prime ministers, family of the current prime minister, royals, CEO's, high en monks she would fly in and "hi-so" eligible ladies. Whenever I heard her referring to me in the third person, it was always "farang this" and "farang that", but when she turned to introduce me, I was always "meet my friend Khun ___. Just from my own experiences I cannot see how this can be considered derogatory if negative action doesn't accompany it.

Thanks Sheryl!

We have a booking on Thai Air and there will be no problem with the import permit with them. China Air would be much more convenient for me coming from Alaska but they are still trying to sort out their issues with this import permit.

You shouldn't have any problems at all. Have some papers to hand the animal control guy when you arrive. Have 150 baht ready to habd the vet, and you're off. I can't believe all the trouble I went to(and unbelievable expense) in the states to get my dog here, over $1,000 including plane, only to find no one here reallty is all that concerned about it.

It wouldn't surprise me to see salaries improve as well.

It would certainly surprise me.

I only meant that fugitives generally aren't in a position to be dictating terms of hire. They take what they can get and I would think wouldn't say much about problems they encounter, wishin g to keep a low profile I assume. Their removal ought to create a more professional environment.

Oh, just great. That comment by the immigration police will just make our lives as foreign teachers here THAT much easier.

"Steven"

If good foreign teachers want to make their life easier, they should petition immigration authorities and their respective schools to do exhaustive criminal background checks on the teachers they would hire. By culling out these undesirables before they get here, your life, and the esteem in which your held, should improve. It wouldn't surprise me to see salaries improve as well.

that pic is kinda creepy - looks like a bobble head.

listening to this story now in the US is a bit sickening. "Thailand,

notorious for sex and child trafficing....". Geeze - this guy and

Thailand are both being protrayed as guilty until proven innocent.

Actually, the part about Thailand is true. For all the talk on these boards about how bad Thais are, the farang I've seen are far worse. I wish Thailand would initiate some kind of background check (in their home country) for people applying for visas here. All manner of sexual deviants seem to wash up here. The suspect of course, is innocent until proven guilty.

It seems that the local Amphur is considering putting a new road along the back of our plot - No problems there, it's their land.

But they also want to add a connecting soi, and to do that they need to purchase land from both sides of an existing route that runs between us and a neighbour.

My understanding is that this is merely a proposal, but that it is considered an improvement the moo baarn would like to have (it has some advantages for us, not leas that it will force the Amphur to install a proper rain culvet.

So, anyone have any experience of how this would go and how price is negotiated?

I was talking to my new neighbor yesterday. He is building a new home next to a piece of land I own. He and three of his former neighbors hajust been displaced by a highway widening project, and in that characteristic fashion, that I just love about some Thais, he was proclaiming his gratitude that he had another piece of land to go to, which his neighbors did not.

Anyway, he had a little over a 100wah on the primary N/S artery between Ching Mai and Chiang Rai, at the northern city limit. They gave him a 1,000,000 baht and a date to be gone. Now here's the thing that really got me. They left him with a strip of 14 wah which they said they didn't need. So now he's got this worthless strip of land that he wasn't compensated for and that others will no doubt use for parking, and they avoided paying him for his true loss. I'm sorry I don't know how the prices were arrived at, but it sure seemed a "here's what we're giving you" sort of deal. It would not surprise me to learn that someone in the office is making a handsome income taking in what they're prepared to pay, and paying out what he can get others to accept. My only point here is, don't let then stick you with something that has lost value to the point you can't use it, without being fully compensated, if you can help it.

Perhaps an appraisal or two and some comparablen salesfrom the area might bolster your "negotiating" position. Good Luck.

Regarding Rum,

Make it Bundaberg or Caruba.

You may have missed it, Lannarebirth, but I think we have been told by the powers-that-be to drop this line of facetiousness.

Ooooh, gotcha. I did miss it, sorry. Anyway...

It's funny, when I come across a rude foreigner, especially an American (like me) I DO feel compelled to put them right regarding treating others respectfully. My Thai GF says it's not my business and I shouldn't get involved. BUT here's the thing! When she finds a Thai being disrespectful to a foreigner, she's all over them like white on rice. Meanwhile I'M thinking she should mind her own business, not knowing the context of the dispute. So, I guess none of us like others to cast our nationality (whichever) in a bad light.

You might consider starting a business instead. You could prepare a number of signs that read "No Germans" and offer, after the offending farang has vanished, to sell them, at a reasonably healthy price, to the victimized establishment.

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Maybe a sign stating "no Germans over 50, No Israelis under 30", and if I had my way, "no children with those annoying handheld video games".

I have the opinion that the dogmatic type approach taken by some of the posters in this thread just goes to clash with the Thai make up and demeanor. I also feel that this type of attitude is what is best described by the guest house owner by the single word "Israeli", in his sign

Finally the truth.

You don't think any of the posters on this thread are "Israelis". You are talking about Jews.

Why don't you can all the bullsh*t?

At the risk of being labeled a racist, I have a question. If the guest house operators were really trying to exclude Jews, why wouldn't their sign say "No Jews"? There are about 14million Jewish people in the world, of which only about 5 million are in Israel. Why would it be acceptable to them to provide lodging for the 63% of Jewish people from other nations, but not acceptable for the minority 37% of Jews from Israel?

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

My point was not about the technicality of the existence or absence of civil rights laws, but rather that, if the commitment of the U.S. to human rights is included in any standard of what it takes for Thailand "to play a part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy", Thailand need not worry about the door being closed to it on that basis.

I suppose if the discrimination became bad enough the US would impose civil rights law adherence on Thailand, just as it did in Europe. Your contention that Europe was or is an egalitarian culture is laughable.

Apologies for the off topic response but what could I do?

I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

I wonder why you continue to believe that, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary that has been presented here. Seems to me like an entrenched bias at work.

Because of repeated expressions of anti-Jewish stereotypes (mostly the money kind of stereotypes).

If a Jew is thrifty, he is a cheap Jew. If a Brit is, he is just a cheap individual. Get it?

No, I don't get it? If their intent were to ban Jews, than I imagine the sign would say "No Jews". If they were consciously anti-semitic, why on earth would they want to exclude the rest of the worlds Jews? Get it?

Also, you've misread my sympaties wiyh regard to this matter. I don't like to see bigotry anywhere. It diminishes everyone. Prejudice too, is often rooted in fallacies, myths and negative traditions. Discrimination on the other hand, is what each of us practice evry day as we go about our business, bearing in mind those deeds, persons and practices that have been harmful to ourselves or our businesses in the past. Hopefully, our discrimination keeps us from repeating past mistakes.

That said, I STILL don't like the idea of these signs, but I've never walked a mile in the shoes of those who display them.

The signs are up there methinks because it just is not worth the aggravation for the little profit involved to the business owner. Who needs foreigners to bargain aggressively and without tact, even by Asian standards, for a few baat? It has nothing to do with racism,

Perhaps it does have to do with racism. Maybe it is the racism of the Israeli that enables the Israeli to treat their hosts with such little regard. I couldn't sau with any authority, as don't think I've ever met an Israeli, save for Israeli sailors, who are the same as sailors everywhere.

Name me one guesthouse in Thailand that is Israeli ONLY. I know there are some that specifically target that market, but name me ONE that has a sign, that says Israelis ONLY and would turn away non-Israelis who wanted to stay in a majority Israeli setting. I don't believe there is one.

Again, I have no problem with owners screening people based on obvious bad behavior. And I am not a "Kumbaaya" type of guy.

Again, I find this tolerance of bigotry strange, and I do believe it is tolerated because Israelis are Jews.

And I find this tacit acceptance of a stereotype that all Israelis are obnoxiously cheap to also be blatant racism. Many Israelis and many Jews are cheap. So are many Frenchmen and every other nationality. I have encountered this kind of bigotry in Thais regarding Indians quite often. Also despicable. We can love Thailand and the Thais, but we don't have to love Thai bigotry.

Well, there's this one: http://www.hobotraveler.com/096thanaguesthouse.shtml

I had a friend, a German, who emigrated to the US. He made a very nice business for himself chartering entire airliners and arranging package tours of middle age/retired Germans to Central America. He used to tell me, that somewhere over Mexico where his audience was "captive" he used to get on the planes P/A system and give them a 30 minute lecture on manners. It seems this particular demographic had a high incidence of arrogance and condescension when traveling to third world environs. He said they were shocked by his drill sergeant like presentation which with no specific evidence, tarred them all with the same brush, but he said it made for far fewer incidents on the tour.

I remember personally, a German in front of me screaming mercilessly at a ticket taker in Costa Rica for being forced to pay the "foreigner" price of 50 cents to enter a monkey/iguana preserve. What made the incident surreal for me was that he was wearing a $15,000 solid gold Rolex at the time.

I'm not sure where that fits in this thread, maybe not at all, except that I believe these signs/cautions are born of experience rather than any innate racism/prejudice.

This debate seems to lack a bit of clarity. Is the discussion about race, religion or politics?

Near as I can tell the discussion is about culture and manners. I don't really think most Thais care very much about international politics. I do think they care about being disrespected, put out and struggling to get payed the market value of their product or service. Just guessing, but I'd guess Israelis are perceived as having no "kreng jai".

Good on ya Elfe! There's always room for one more.

Here's what I came up with, thinking it out on my own. Israelis are far from the only cheapskate travellers out there. To many "backpackers", it is a point of honor to see how much they can haggle a price down. Despite the fact their hosts know how much they payed to get there, that many are sporting $200 backpacks and lug laptops around with them, spend more on one beer (consuming several more daily) than the cost of their accomodations.

Hey, I don't care if they ant to eat only white rice and green mangoes all day to save a buck, but for crissakes have a little consideration for your hosts, assuming they aren't trying to gouge you.

That said, maybe the "Israeli" sign is just a heads up to not be too much of a skinflint, I don't know. I do know, that the people I know who didn't want their money, could have sure used it. I assume their reasos are valid if a broad generalization.

Some close friends of mine are Lao and own a guesthouse in Luang Phrabang. They charge the equivalent of about 60 baht per night to stay there and often they only have 1-2 guests; pretty much they are living strictly hand to mouth. Outside the front door on the porch is a sign that says "No Israelis". I asked them why, being as how they sure coudn't afford to be turning away any business. Basically, the way it translated was that "they try to steal your dignity". Seems they use the 60 baht as a starting point for the haggling over price with no regard for where they are, how little that really is, and whether or not it will fill the proprietors rice bowl.

ok ... is it just me?

Or does a guy with 2 kids and a live in maid really NEED to drown a dog? or is it just ........

we are currently renting a large house for B90,000 per month whilst looking for a house to buy.

School fees for two children are around B75,000 per month plus the occasional donation.

Mortgage on an appartment in London and a cottage in the lake district in England is a further B190,000.

Car payments (2 cars) B82,000

Electricity/water around B7,000

Maid B10,000

Food and fuel around 40,000

Entertainment around 35,000

Total outgoings per month around B529,000 per month or 7,500 GBP, 14,000 USD

Seems like with the kids and a maid ........

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=820207

Why would a guy who claims on another thread to spend 75,00 baht/month educating his kids, at the same time waste all that investment by teachng them to abdicate responsibility? When the going gets tough, walk away? You'd really pre-meditatively murder an otherwise healthy and helpless puppy? I'm sure immigration would love to know they have someone of that ilk here. I hope you're just a troll.

The areas that are cooler tend to be more remote so living there becomes a trade off between cooler weather and increased transportation hassles. Even in the coolest places you are likely to live at will be too warm for a Pendleton shirt in the daytime most of the year...but then you probaly know that already.....if you are addicted to Pendleton shirt climate then you will not be happy in Thailand.

Thanks for the reply. What is your definition of remote? A half hour from central CM? an hour? or more? Dirt roads? gravel? some paved some not? all paved?

No worry on the Pendeltons, I grew up in Minnesota with 90 degrees/90% humidity - of course that was summer, winter was 20 below with a foot of snow. I know that while Seattle is famed for purpetual rain (not true BTW) but with my daughters description of the rainy season I am sure that I will soon develop "CM webbed toes".

Another quick question, my wife is Japanese and I understand that there is a fairly sizeable Japanese community in CM. Is this the case? From looking at some of the resturant themes on the forum it appears that there are some pretty good Japanese ones around. How about Japanese food shops and such?

Thanks again

Steve

Hi Steve.

For noticablly cooler weather, one needs to live high in the mountains near Chiang Mai. It's about a 45-60 minute drive to get there. There would be a dearth of rental properties in that area, and what might be available would be 2-3 times the range of rets you've said you're looking for. Somewhat cooler weather, cleaner air, trees and streams , can be found in the foothills nearby and the longer drive time would be cut n half. The rent range you've indicated would be for fairly low end housing, but if you spend some time here and search diligently, you might find something near the upper end of your range. Be prepared to make your own improvements or upgrades, as landlords here tend to take a "handsoff " approach with regard to anything save for rent collection.

Land prices in and around Chiang Mai are not exactly cheap, but I would say it trades at a discount to many other areas in Thailand of large population.

The Japanese expat piopulation here is rather large, but I know very little about it. I'm sure your wife would find common interests with some of them. I suggest an extended vacation to the area for fact gatering purposes and putting things you read here and elsewhere into perspective.