wildewillie89

Some people swear by sticking the finger up the bum. I think it depends on the dog though. You would also think the dog would become desensitised to it after a while. Then again, if a dog is having it done that many times that it does become desensitised, then that is one irresponsible owner.

Responsible owners of these types of breeds (who have game lines) always carry break sticks with them. I think a breathable muzzle and break stick is enough (to keep the whingers happy). If people are still so scared of a 20kg dog with a muzzle on a leash then the issues are on them, not the dog. Don't need to have expensive legislation that has been proven not to work due to people forming their views from gutter journalism or wanting to be wrapped in cotton wool every time they go outside. 

5 hours ago, Cereal said:

Pit Bull dogs are more dangerous and more inclined to attack than any other breed. The biggest danger is their incredible strength and bite.

 

Read these statistics.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/miami-baby-mauled-death-pit-092512847.html

Pitbull type dog's bite force is incredibly small if compared to the image given to the dog by the media and comparing it to other breeds. The jaw looking has also proven to be a myth before anyone mentions that. The jaw is easily opened with a break stick. Both my dogs have bites twice as powerful if we are talking psi measurements, and many people's dogs would have similar or greater bite force also. Should we just make one standrdised robot type dog everyone owns?

It is why it takes the poor dogs hours in dog fights the idiots use them for as the force is not sufficient to end it quickly. In general, Pitbull type dogs are very people friendly, maybe not so much animal friendly, but yes, people friendly. It is when the dog doesn't match up to the image that has been created that people take matters into their own hands to try and make it be like that (turning a nice dog into an aggressive one - same result would be with any dog). I only know of one breed that I would consider outright aggressive regardless of socialiation/how it is brought up. Many are suspicious, but I only know of one that is outward aggressive.

Take away the Pitbull type breeds and idiots will use Rotties, so lets ban Rotties (who have a stronger bite than a Pit). Take away Rottie, etc etc until we get down to Poodles. Ban Poodles? It is a silly slippery slope, as the parliamentary inquiry found. 

Australia and the UK took these dogs away, what happened? Bite stats went up. Are we going to say Pitbulls are still making up high percentages of the growing number of dog attacks, even though their numbers are extremely limited due to strict laws? 

Was a bit confusing, but I was under the impression OP meant the budget was for the initial payment, and then would pay the monthly payments over 7 years. 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Regardless of anything you say, there is no justification for not putting down dogs that have attacked people, and that should be the first time. Applies to any breed of dog.

In Thailand, where we live, there seems to be a lot of justification. In other countries, not so much. Hence why the majority of dogs that are put down is the 'adored family pet', the opposite of what society consider a 'dangerous' breed of dog. 

Dogs bite, it is a fact of life. Education on bringing up dogs (will be different depending on the dog), education on teaching bite inhibition, education on interaction with dogs, education on reading dogs body language and education on how to keep a dog on your own land with proper fencing is what is needed. The legislation regarding putting down dogs who attack or dangerous dog breeds are only increasing bite stats (bother to go look them up). Why? As the person just goes out to get more dogs that will also end up attacking. Why don't dangerous dog laws work? As instead of a Pitbull type breed, people just go out and by a Rottie and rough it up instead. Simplistic solutions may give you instant gratification and the illusion something is being achieved, but do not work in fixing the long-term overall problem of dogs attacking.

On a side note I love how the 'report' starts off saying nearly 10 Pitbulls, then it goes to 1 chasing, followed by 5-6. So from 10 to possibly 6 in a paragraph. If a witness cant even count the number of dogs then I would like to know how they identified the dogs seeing as experts considered credible witnesses in Western courts cant even identify a Pitbull with the dog in front of them (and DNA testing). 

16 hours ago, AWillOz said:

I've been explaining to my wife just what would happen in australia if this incident occurred..

You mean the introduction of ridiculous knee jerk legislation by states? It looks like a parliamentary inquiry in Victoria found their is enough evidence to show Pitbulls are not anymore dangerous than other breeds and are moving to water down the legislation (although keep some conditions like being muzzled in public). Why? As bite stats have gone up regardless of the legislation (i.e. 'Pitbulls', which are almost impossible to identify, make absolutely no significant impact on bite stats).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-23/dangerous-dog-pit-bull-declaration-laws-not-working/7270198

Would people go to a different park just because they saw what they thought was a Pitbull? Run scared across the road if they saw a group of youth walking towards them? Not go outside at night time in case they will be murdered? I thought the Thais had irrational fears regarding ghosts because of 'gutter journalism' and the like, but it seems many farang are just as illogical. 

When people are having to physically make an effort to move away from '2 old men' eating a meal, I think the issues are on that person, not the 2 pensioners. As for the colours, big whoop. Nearly all clubs of some description have uniform policies, whether it is motorcycles, sport or even my grandmother's wood turning club. 

I watched a bit of 'Sons of Anarchy' and took it for what it was. Just a bit of average TV drama that helped me sleep at night. Would I have referenced the show as evidence in a criminology paper? Maybe if I wanted to repeat the unit. 

We can look at a made up TV show, or we can look at actually what is happening. It may take a bit longer for you to research, but that is the price to pay for not being ignorant. When bodies such as human rights watchdogs are telling governments that their isn't enough crime committed by these groups to proceed with the laws, and the governments who ignore this end up going soft/shifting focus/reviewing the laws, then it tells us something. Something different from 'Sons of Anarchy'.

I can almost accept 'gutter journalism' as a source where people get their information. Well I can understand it. But TV drama? Wow. 

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except he didn't suffer separation anxiety, I could go out without any problems at all.

 

It was only when he realised I wasn't coming back (presumably because he was being fed by someone else), that he became upset, worried and moped.

This is a bit of a long waffle, but something that interested me.

Exactly - he realised he was being fed by someone else. Thus a change in routine that caused symptoms of separation anxiety. Whippets in general get very attached to their owners, but at the same time love new people also, what the American Whippet Club call 'Excessive Greeting Disorder' - when 'owners' or visitors come over (why they make useless watch dogs generally). WRAP (Whippet Rescue and Placement) state that some Whippets have separation anxiety symptoms with one owner, but when placed in a house hold with many more people in it or more dogs in it, the symptoms 'magically disappear'. The actual 'owner/bond' isn't what the dog misses as such, it is just the routine or having enough people/dogs about to distract the side effects of a disruption to the routine. Of course, takes a short time for any dog to be at complete ease in a new home until the new routine is formed. 

Very few dogs create such bonds that we see in the movies. It is a nice thought us owners like to have, but on the most part the vast majority of breeds/bonds are just not like this. It is a developed thought we have from literature (books, isolated stories, movies etc), not actually a true sense of reality. Rescue groups prove this. It is like how many people think their dog will give their life for them, when in reality maybe 1% of dogs actually would stand up for their owners when challenged (the fake intruder tests show this). We hear/watch isolated and heart warming stories, we go out and give our dogs a big cuddle, and that emotion warps our views of reality. 

Even something like a Fila Brasileiro, one of, or if not, the most loyal breed of dog that Brazil has even  proverbs made after it ('as faithful as a fila'), and has made it the national dog can be re-homed with the right people. This is probably the only dog breed in the world that has a natural temperament of not only a dislike of being touched, but outward hatred/aggression to every person with a certain distance of him. No amount of socialisation/training will prevent this (ojeriza) completely - only mixing/breeding softer lines. Only the bond with its direct family can change the chemical reaction in its brain to convert aggression into complete submission. People who do not understand the breed, but stupidly own one, cannot enter new romantic relationships if the dog is in the house as the dog will attack the new person. It may take a month for the dog to get used to a new person, but if they stay away for a month, they have to start the month process over again. But even such strong instincts can be re-homed successfully with the right people with the dog living a happy life. Hence, why earlier I said modern, or friendly breeds are generally super easy to re-home once the new routine is formed and the dog is much better off. Guardians, slightly harder/longer but by no means not impossible. Growing up, my family used to be a part of a Maremma Sheepdog rescue group back home. One dog took us 3 weeks of constant work just to let us touch his head without snapping, but as soon as he regarded us as his new flock, he lived a happy life and never snapped again. 

My 10 week old Fila puppy took 24 hours of me sitting next to him in front of the sofa. If I ever tried to touch him he would growl (no confidence to attack at that age). Imagine it, a 10 week old puppy showing such natural aggression. I literally had to sleep sitting up with him next to me, only leave to go to the toilet. After 24 hours he completely changed. He wouldn't leave my side, if I moved to the next sofa cushion, he would get up and move also. One paw always on my foot. It was the same with the Filas interaction with the Caucasian. A 10 week old puppy growling/standing up to a giant guardian. The same time period. that growl changed to following her everywhere. My Thai cousin also has one. He was of the belief complete socialisation will stop this so he exposed the dog to literally everything. I told him socialisation helps the dog know what proportion of attack to use, but doesn't stop attacks if the variables are there. He didn't believe me. The dogs instincts kicked in at about 8 months (different line from mine). He didn't realise, and was at work. So what he thought was a friendly dog accepting of strangers at home, went into a working dog and bit 2 people who entered the yard. 

First vet visit (same age), vet nurse tried to worm him, he didn't allow it with a deep growl. Only accepted if I wormed him. He will accept my command of leave it/wait, if someone is walking past, however if people get into our space he will attack. He is a working line dog, bred to do a job. However, obviously he can be re-homed by the right people regardless of all of this. 

31 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

My Thai friend calls me her younger brother and she's trying to get a job at a high school in the city because she's tired to travel for hours every day.

The school in the center of the city was asking for 400,000 baht to get her a teaching position. She really got angry said )(*(*^%$**(*(( and continued at her former school. Now she's retired, but she started to dislike her own system. 

 

 Students who want to study at my school, a high school with the best reputation, have to pay a lot of money just to find themselves in a crowded classroom with 49 others.

 

  Nothing goes without the director getting a piece of the cake and in certain cases also the Thai head teacher when it's related to English teaching. 

In terms of teaching jobs, I am not sure if it is the same with other government departments, but that 400,000 gets shared around by many people on the admin board. Probably the same with teaching actually. Director is probably only getting a quarter of it. And that is why the culture never changes, even if you get a good Director, the other people will still want their share. One of the Tessabans in my area is highly sorted as the Mayor doesn't ask for anything, so the going price for the job is the standard price minus his share. He cant do much about it obviously though as he would be a walking target. 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I know very well that dogs are very fast used to a new owner. And I also know very well that they do not suffer when they move to an other owner. (We have quite a lot of dogs running around, all "left overs"  from other owners."

 

It depends on the bond between dog and 'owner'.

 

My much-missed and loved whippet refused to eat for a few days when I visited my mum (even though my husband was still there), and ate little for the remaining 10 day period....  Similarly, when I lost him for a few days (long story), he was fortunately found by a lovely couple who took care of him and saw one of my 'lost dog adverts'.  They told me that he had remained curled up on a bed they'd hastily made for him, with no interest in anything .

According to the American Whippet Club, a percentage of whippets do suffer separation anxiety, and it is one of the major reasons that young whippets are re-homed. I used to have a friend who had a whippet, the dog ended up having to live with the mother due to such issues when he worked during the day time. From memory it comes down to genetics and/or upbringing. 

7 hours ago, nikotin said:

It works so radical that i think it is really enough to just use it when the dog has ticks!Its not the most healthiest stuff for the dog

Yes, it isn't that healthy. The problem is up to a quarter of ticks in many provinces here carry either one disease or multiple diseases so if we wait until we find ticks on the dog then the chances of them having already contracted a disease is pretty high. The Rickettsia infections are pretty easy to treat if get onto them early, it is the possible co-infections that worry me more as no quick tests for them. 

9 hours ago, Arjen said:

WW, I agree fully with you on this.

 

I know very well that dogs are very fast used to a new owner. And I also know very well that they do not suffer when they move to an other owner. (We have quite a lot of dogs running around, all "left overs"  from other owners.

 

But...... A dog would never exchange his owner for an other owner. The dog simple obeys the first owner. Ad why so many people, (and I am not talking about OP) just "take" a dog, (or a bird, or a cat, or a turtle) and as soon as something change in live, they get rid of the animal they choose. 

 

Many moons back I was without a job, and needed one urgently. I cancelled a few promising ones because the job (and the new live what belonged to it) did not fit with the two very old dogs I had at that moment. So I had many temporally jobs. And when those two dogs died, I very soon had a "real" job.

 

I do not say say that this should be the "norm"/ But on the other hand the way so many people "take" animal, I really can not understand. What do they do with their children? or with their partner?

 

Regards, Arjen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

People buy dogs for various stupid reasons. Impulse buys, they feel lonely, think a dog is a must to have this imaginary 'white picket fence' perfect household, or these days even for social media. I know someone back in Australia whose dogs have millions of subscribers now. 

My thinking is if you are worried about the price of bread going up one baht (as many people are on this forum), or the weather, or the exchange rate then don't buy a dog. As chances are you are umming and ahhing about whether you want to continue living here or not. 

I can relate to a lot of what you said. I have been here almost 3 years now with no trips back because of the dogs. I wont be leaving the country until they die. When they do die, the Mrs and I will sit down and map out a 10 year plan before buying anymore dogs. I have also massaged my boss in such a way I get a 2 hour lunch break each day to come home and see the kids and dogs. 

I was thinking about it, and even if I could change my mindset, I really don't think I could find anyone who would be successful in re-homing my dogs anyway. They would probably have to be moved together, both 50kg+, both guardians so notoriously hard to bond to new families. One is incredibly people and dog aggressive, so would take someone having huge courage and patience (without having any pre-existing dogs). The other is great, but acceptance comes on her terms, not the persons. So again, the person would really need to know what they are doing. She remembers one guy who visits from Finland who knows dogs once a year, but will not let an uncle who visits once a month pass the front gate purely as the first meeting was bad energy/fake confidence from him. 

So Kor Sor 5 is top salary is 76,000 per month. The extra position money (legal) is 13,000 per month. Making it 89,000. Only one person in the last 10 years has got to this 76,000 salary (according to the Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education), 

Anything more than this regardless of education is not exactly clean money or if it is, it isn't a consistent monthly income. As Masters, PhD etc only allow you to move up the table posted earlier anyway. For example, you can be up the top of C8 and cant get to C9 as most teachers cant, no further education is helping your pay as you are already up the top of the table. Also the pension only relates to the table previously posted. 

9 hours ago, Arjen said:

WW, I agree fully with you on this.

 

I know very well that dogs are very fast used to a new owner. And I also know very well that they do not suffer when they move to an other owner. (We have quite a lot of dogs running around, all "left overs"  from other owners.

 

But...... A dog would never exchange his owner for an other owner. The dog simple obeys the first owner. Ad why so many people, (and I am not talking about OP) just "take" a dog, (or a bird, or a cat, or a turtle) and as soon as something change in live, they get rid of the animal they choose. 

 

Many moons back I was without a job, and needed one urgently. I cancelled a few promising ones because the job (and the new live what belonged to it) did not fit with the two very old dogs I had at that moment. So I had many temporally jobs. And when those two dogs died, I very soon had a "real" job.

 

I do not say say that this should be the "norm"/ But on the other hand the way so many people "take" animal, I really can not understand. What do they do with their children? or with their partner?

 

Regards, Arjen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Arjen, posted in wrong thread

I thought the in-laws had kept up their Bravecto, but I just found out the other day the next dose was due 10 months ago. Also no ticks on the dog (used to be all over her face). I am considering dropping the Bravecto down to every 4 months, rather than 3 months. Thailand isn't the place to do experiments like this but will see how it goes. One of the dogs was just spayed so is inside, by the time she gets back out and not wanting to give Bravecto just before the operation, it will be close to 4 months. 

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

A Thai government teacher? Should be impossible. What is her rank?

 

Edit: Actually my impression of Thai teacher salary (and probably of most others) was wrong, i always thought their salary was quite low. But actually it's way higher than for example in the Army

 

A "teacher assistent" starts at 15k already, and with highest rank and maximum years it's 76k (these are all just teacher ranks, this doesn't mean working in education ministry or stuff like that)

Where it gets confusing is charts like this only state basic salary. They don't include legal extras. For example, my wife is an official and a table like this would state her basic salary, but the actual money that ends up in her account is quite a bit higher. Maybe that's what happened here, things like position, house rental/mortgage assistance end up being incorrectly included in the monthly 'basic salary'. I think it is only 11 people in Thailand who are C10 in Education (work as directors/ministry, I doubt if any classroom teachers are). Many teachers retire C8. To get to C9 is quite hard for a classroom teacher, I think you need to have received an award at a national level, not just a provincial level award. 

So for a tiny minority of teachers, 78,000 isn't out of the question, but it isn't her actual final salary that her pension is taken from as the chart shows. Would need to know how many years as an official and rank to know the actual final salary from the 39,000 pension (final salary x years experience divide 50). Teachers also easier to move up ranks than other departments as they don't need to test to move up (other than going from C8-C9 where you need the award). 

The wife if passes a test to get to C8, final salary can be 78,000 (not a teacher), but her pension 55,000. Years experience makes a big difference. If cant pass test stays C7, 49,000 salary and pension 34,000. But she would be hitting that aged 42 (in 12 years), so passing the test is important or its 18 years of no pay rise just to get a higher pension. 

Vets in the NE are much of a muchness. Aren't up to date with the latest research/trends. Have limited technology so generally only do the most basic procedures, or have to open up the dog for what should be keyhole surgery. Unless it is a common disease, they struggle with critical thinking and just treat whatever it is as a common disease. Haven't had much experience with procedures that aren't as common. Some of my vets have never even done a gastropexy (nor knew what it was).  Very limited experience with larger breed dogs (don't understand their needs a different to smaller dogs). Your best bet is just to find a vet that will at least go away and research, rather than completely dismissing what you tell them. One out of the three vets I have seen in my province (bordering Korat) does that. Good luck in your search. 

I have told my Thai family I am not religious. They said they don't mind if the children are not religious, but they said sometimes it is best to write 'Buddhist' on the forms. I replied with, I don't mind if they are Buddhist (as it promotes always updating your knowledge), but learn from Buddha's words, not a local monk. So the kids decide themselves when they are of an age of comprehension and critical thinking what they want to be (for any religion). They said that is a better way to learn anyway, as many monks these days are just after your money. My local monks kick dogs, stand their smoking, burn rubbish and if they are not at the temple, then they are at the cafe or IT stores. 

I would be inclined to think more locals don't respect the monks as opposed to us guests, as they are ones always being asked for something. 

Rather than killing dogs, maybe a similar system should be used as the gun control systems. So background checks, training and needing to buy a license to own dogs. The Dangerous Dog legislation is silly as it mainly is focused around Pitbulls, ignoring the other breeds (usually Filas, Dogos, Tosas, Presas etc). Pitbulls are people friendly if raised properly. However, a dog like a Fila has been specifically bred to be not-friendly towards people (ojeriza - aversion to strangers) regardless how well it has been raised. Few exceptions, but usually a result of cross breeding in a softer line. 

So laws will be changed to cater for Pitbulls, then people will buy something like FIlas without understanding them, and then media and knee jerk reactions will occur again to ban certain dogs. The kill all 'aggressive' dog line is ridiculous as it is your 'family loving dog' that results in most bite stats - usually as people haven't been trained to read the signals the dog gives out or don't train/supervise children.  

The countries that have Dangerous Dog laws don't work for numerous reasons. These dogs don't qualify a high enough percentage of bite statistics to make any difference (bite stats are going up). And also, even without these dog, the idiots will just buy the next dog the think is 'tough', so Rotties, Cane Corsos etc. I agree some breeds need muzzling when in public and extra strong fencing, but Pitbull type dogs wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list for those requirements if raised properly. 

Actually, I stand corrected. A small percentage of classroom teachers can reach much higher salaries than I thought. Their standard salary obviously doesn't reach that much, but other factors of the salary (such as 'position' I think comes to 6,000 baht), so with everything added up, legally, it is not impossible to reach these higher numbers at a C8 level. But to get that in the future they would be needing to pass the official test at a young age (straight out of university). 

What we don't look at when we look at salaries is the legal extras. Explains why nearly all teachers, once out of university, try to become an official. 9,000 vs 45-70,000 with health care, payout, pension, payout to family when die, funeral costs covered. 

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Pit bulls should be killed, and often are in my area. 

They have been bred for one thing, which is illegal now. Let's all do our but to save lives and help in eradicating these misfits of nature.

 

 

You do know Dangerous Dog Legislation doesn't work. Whether you ban them or kill them bite statistics still go up. Victoria (Melbourne) is in the process of dropping their Dangerous Dog laws as enough evidence has shown dogs like Pitbulls are not the issue, owners are. UK bite stats also have gone up since the introduction of the laws. Restriction on owners are a better option, not dogs. Everyone knows Pitbulls, raised in a normal manner, make useless guard dogs as they are people friendly. Comes down to what evidence people like to consume, legitimate (what the courts accept), or gutter journalism who wouldn't know a Pitbull type breed from a Mastiff. 

14 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Never saw any bikers with colours in Melbourne, on my last visit recently.

 

 

I think the point is the laws turned out to be a bit of a waste of money, with the only legitimate people supporting them being the ones who created them. Other departments like the human rights watchdog saying these groups do not commit enough crime to justify the laws. Even the Queensland commission has now stepped away from them, focusing on other crimes and sex offenders instead. 

End result being that, newer groups, who have come from organised crime regions, are yes, part of crime. But that is a small percentage of 'bikies'. The 2 old men sitting in a restaurant are as likely to be involved in crime as your local football player. Should we crap ourselves if we see two guys in tracksuits with the local footy club logo displayed having a drink after training?

There are 'bikers' in Melbourne, and looked like there were going to be a lot more due to the Queensland laws. Not uncommon to be surrounded by them whilst driving on the Monash Freeway. One of life's pleasures for many motorists with everyone taking out their phones and recording it and uploading to social media. No one has issues with them other than those people who watch A Current Affair type programs. Which, lets be honest, is gutter journalism at best. 

I thought one problem with dangerous dog legislation is it is almost impossible to identify Pitbulls. That even experts considered 'credible' by the justice system couldn't identify the breed 100% of the time. So many cases have been overturned in the courts due to the authorities originally incorrectly identifying the dog as a Pitbull.

Especially Thai. Every time I pull up in the servo with my Fila in the seat next to me, the 8 or so workers all say it is a Pitbull and it will kill us if we get too close. Even a breed a couple times bigger than a Pitbull  with completely different breeds mixed in (Bloodhound ears) is identified as a Pitbull by people who love a good bashing story by the media.