Bkk Brian

Just now, placeholder said:

More of the same refusal to address the evidence.

If you have no link to your claims then you are the one with no evidence. Its pretty simple

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Over and over again, you merely assert that the links don't lead to valid evidence. But you never offer any analysis of why the evidence is invalid. Anybody can claim "So no link to claim" in response to any  evidence introduce by someone on any topic whatsoever.. In other words, you've got nothing.

In other words, you've got nothing.

Correct, you supplied no link.....

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Have the Hamas terrorists released all their hostages (dead or alive as they may already be) as directed by the ICJ on 26 January & 28 March?

 

No, didn't think so.

It as also ordered their release this time & the UN Security Council resolutions, 2 of them to release the hostages immediately and with no pre conditions.

The media only tells you about the ICJ’s ruling regarding Israel, it does not tell you that the ICJ unanimously reiterated its call for all hostages held in Gaza to be immediately and unconditionally released.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Any rational person would say that I have provided that link. Any rational person would understand why a governing party needed propping up. But if you have an alternate explanation of why a governing party needed propping up that doesn't have to do with its support among its citizens, please share it with us.

I can see the personal insults beginning to creep in, what makes you think I am not being rational (twice)

So no link to claims ok

Just now, placeholder said:

I have provided a link that shows Hamas was unpopular.

Another that shows that the Israeli goal was to prop up the Hamas regime. 

Tell me how to construe these in any other way but as I have done?

Just the fact that Israel was propping up Hamas alone should tell a rational person enough. What do you think propping up means in this context? Why would a government need propping up?

Why are you finding it so difficult to admit you can't back your claim up?

Just now, placeholder said:

What nonsense. Netanhahu said that the reason to support Hamas was as a counter to the PA.

"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

What does "propping up" mean to you?

 

You made a claim, I asked for a link to back up your claim, you can't provide it. That's not nonsense its a fact.

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

*

I'm shocked, shocked that you forgot about this. Here  you go:

What Palestinians Really Think of Hamas
Before the War, Gaza’s Leaders Were Deeply Unpopular—but an Israeli Crackdown Could Change That

Asked to identify the amount of trust they had in the Hamas authorities, a plurality of respondents (44 percent) said they had no trust at all; “not a lot of trust” was the second most common response, at 23 percent. Only 29 percent of Gazans expressed either “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of trust in their government. Furthermore, 72 percent said there was a large (34 percent) or medium (38 percent) amount of corruption in government institutions, and a minority thought the government was taking meaningful steps to address the problem.

https://archive.ph/LbaMm

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

I would be shocked if that was relevant but its not, far from it. That's a poll taken a few days before Oct 7th

Again your claim:

"Hamas needed that propping because it had become so unpopular in Gaza."

My reply to that claim:

Get back to me when you have a link to that claim

21 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

More hostage bodies recovered.

 

IDF recovers bodies of hostages Orión Hernández Radoux, Hanan Yablonka, Michel Nisenbaum, all slain on Oct. 7

The bodies of the three were kidnapped from the Mefalsim area, according to the IDF, at the same location where Hamas terrorists murdered and abducted four more hostages whose bodies were recovered last week from a tunnel in Jabaliya. Hernández Radoux, a Mexican-French national, was the boyfriend of Shani Louk, one of the four hostages whose bodies were found last week. Hernández Radoux and Yablonka — along with Louk and two more hostage bodies recovered last week — were at the Supernova music festival near the border community of Re’im when it was attacked by Hamas terrorists.

They had fled to the Mefalsim area where they were murdered and kidnapped.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-recovers-bodies-of-hostages-orion-hernandez-radoux-hanan-yablonka-michel-nisenbaum-all-slain-on-oct-7/

Turns out that one of the dead hostages recovered was the boyfriend of Shani Louk whos body was recovered a few days earlier. 

https://x.com/OliLondonTV/status/1793963901622657337

They were also found in a tunnel within a UN building.

https://x.com/DavidSaranga/status/1794213085944983940

The devils is in the detail and just like last time when the ICJ issued its original orders, the media instead of taking a little time to go through it and get their headlines accurate, immediately go out with their biased shorthand claims that can be misinformation at best. Thats quickly followed by viral headlines everywhere that give little of the actual reality.

Remember the plausible Genocide that was supposedly stated by the ICJ? That turned out to be untrue and misrepresented

This was the correction by Joan Donoghue, who served as President of the International Court of Justice

The ICJ “did not decide - and this is something where I’m correcting what’s said in the media - it did not decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.”Joan Donoghue, who served as President of the International Court of Justice until February, once and for all puts to rest the inaccurate and irresponsible claim by some media and UN envoys about the court’s initial ruling on South Africa’s case against Israel committing genocide. So much damage done with this constant stream of misinformation.

The same is happening here. Even CNN has to admit some ambiguity.“The order can be understood in two ways: either that Israel has to halt the offensive in Rafah; or specifically components that may lead to conditions of life that could bring physical destruction,” he said.

Drill down into it as should have been by the media then you get to what the order on Rafah actually is:

According to the interpretation of Sebutinde, Barak and two other judges on the court, the court’s ruling was not a direct and total order to stop the Rafah operation, but rather a limited order instructing Israel not to violate the Genocide Convention in that military campaign. The fifth of five judges who wrote separate opinions or declarations to accompany the ruling, South Africa’s Dire Tladi, took the opposite view, however, arguing that the ruling, in “explicit terms, ordered the State of Israel to halt its offensive in Rafah.”
While some are reading the decision as a blanket order to halt the offensive, the wording appeared to include some conditionality that would allow Israel to continue operations in Rafah so long as it ensured that the conditions for Palestinians sheltering there do not deteriorate so as to risk their mass-destruction. Notably, nearly one million of the 1.4 million Palestinians sheltering in Rafah have already evacuated, amid IDF orders to do so.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/icj-orders-israel-to-halt-rafah-operations-that-risk-destruction-of-civilian-population/

White House on ICJ ruling: Our position on Rafah is ‘clear and consistent’

In response to Friday’s International Court of Justice ruling, a White House National Security Council spokesperson says that “we’ve been clear and consistent on our position on Rafah,” without elaborating.

The significant but somewhat ambiguous ICJ ruling calls on Israel to halt military operations in Rafah that would risk the destruction of the civilian population sheltering there. According to the interpretation of four judges, the order is a limited one instructing Israel not to violate the Genocide Convention in Rafah, not halt its military operations there altogether.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/white-house-on-icj-ruling-our-position-on-rafah-is-clear-and-consistent/

43 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Seems like a few members on here have a problem with the truth about what the ICJ actually said, so can I suggest they all read this Order dated 24th May 2024:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240524-ord-01-00-en.pdf

In what way are some members having a problem with the truth?

5 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Paywall.  "Subscribe to unlock this article."

Click the second link I provided, its the same article with no paywall

Simple as

Today International Court of Justice (ICJ) ordered Israel to stop rescue operations for it's hostages at Rafah.

<deleted> ICJ!

The war will continue until all hostages are home.

https://x.com/DrEliDavid/status/1794016661495853366

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

South Africa welcomes "groundbreaking" ICJ ruling ordering Israel to halt military offensive in Rafah

The South African government expressed support for the International Court of Justice (ICJ) ruling Friday that orders Israel to “immediately halt” its military offensive in Rafah. 

“This order is groundbreaking as it is the first time that explicit mention is made for Israel to halt its military action in any area of Gaza, this time specifically in Rafah,” Zane Dangor, director-general of South Africa's Department of International Relations and Cooperation, said in a video statement.

...

Johannesburg will approach the United Nations Security Council with this order for the latter to implement it, including allowing an independent investigation of claims of genocide in Gaza, according to Dangor."

 

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-05-24-24/index.html

 

Well yea, of course, partners in crime, so does Hamas welcome it. Israel has found and retrieved 7 hostage bodies in the last few days, Hamas is furious. 

"Hamas has welcomed the ICJ ruling and called on the international community to pressure Israel to implement the decision."

Lets get those hostages released. The ICJ has ordered it immediately 

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You think Israel went along for sightseeing? It was there for security. To make sure the money got to where it was meant to be going.

 "For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza, where he doled out money from suitcases filled with millions of dollars."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

And you totally ignore the fact that Israel could have taken measures to stop these payments. And other monies laundered into Gaza. It chose not to.

Your claim:

"Hamas needed that propping because it had become so unpopular in Gaza."

When you get a link to back up that claim get back to me

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘‘Palestinians’?

I believe the attackers have been identified as members of a particular organization.

 

So can you be a bit more specific who it is you are referring to, or is that a problem for you?

Well it was actually Hamas and several other Palestinian militant groups launched coordinated armed incursions from the from the Gaza Strip into the Gaza envelope of southern Israel, the first invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

Including normal Gaza civilians, ie Palestinians 

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

By all means ignore Israel’s progressing isolation from former supportive nations, it is an isolation that is nevertheless still progressing.

Here we go again, you assume to much, first the "we' thingy now the "ignore" thingy. 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In the meantime we can all watch Israel’s progressive isolation from nations that were hitherto supportive to Israel.

Speak for yourself. I watch Israel defending itself from terrorism and Hamas to ensure it never happens again. You can watch what you want.

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have absolutely no doubt these videos are horrific, traumatizing even.

 

I expect Ireland, Norway and Spain will respond to their envoys being subjected to forced viewing of such material and I doubt very much these envoys have any part all to play in the decision by their own Governments to recognize a Palestinian state.

Ireland, Norway and Spain could of course summon the respective Israeli ambassadors, other than of course they’ve already been ordered to flounce.

I expect Ireland, Norway and Spain will respond to their envoys being subjected to forced viewing of such material and I doubt very much these envoys have any part all to play in the decision by their own Governments to recognize a Palestinian state.

If they do respond then please keep us updated about how they feel being forced to watch the truth.

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Thats one side of the cruelty, and you choose one side only. Israel is good at using their view only to try to get opinions on their side. 

 

However it can seem right now it works against them.

 

Even my father who is 85 years, have changed his view, and I never thought that would happen in his lifetime. Im shocked, 

Yes it is one side of cruelty, well done, its how the war started. As for your father, I would give you my fathers opinion but he passed away.

21 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You either have a very active imagination, or you're listening to some very bizarre podcasts. 

The UN report on sexual violence was not in a podcast that I know of. Even if it was I don't bother with podcasts. How's your imagination calling Hamas terrorists soldiers?

UN Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict finds damning evidence of rape, sexual violence, necrophilia

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Were they also shown pictures of Palestinian children dismembered by Israel bombs? Palestinians injured by Israeli war weapons screaming in agony in hospitals without the medical supplies to give them the care they need?

How about video of Israeli ‘settlers’ attacking humanitarian aid convoys?

 

I expect not.

 

They have probably seen all those themselves don't you think?

This was a horrific video that the hostages families just gave permission for release. So horrific it showed threats of rape from the terrorists, bloodied innocent girls taken to Gaza and now nobody knows if they are alive or dead in the dark recesses of Hamas tunnels